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Post-match Thread: Milton Keynes v Charlton Athletic | Tue 26 Jan 2021 | 7pm
Comments
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Not really. Ronnie is an outright striker, play him up front. Putting him out wide to do the running is a waste of his skill set. On the other hand Smyth is not exactly a lethal finisher but has energy and running to spare.SamE7 said:
...but Ronnie looks like a much better finisher and versatile player so that point really is voidkillerandflash said:The role Ronnie played when he came on, which seemed to be wide midfield and run around a bit, Paul Smyth would have been a better option...5 -
Had money on us to win 2-0, so the way we went about things in the 2nd half yesterday was very frustrating.
An away win, and a clean sheet, in a pretty grim League One affair. You can't play a slick passing game on a pitch like that, which I think aided us a lot more than it did MK.
Beat Pompey and I'll believe we're picking up momentum. Will be containing my excitement until then.2 -
Having had time to ponder on the performance after we scored, I can understand that it was a reaction to a loss of confidence. We can't keep playing like that and expect to make the play offs and we shouldn't paper over the fact that a toothless MKDons helped us, but if we bank that and start playing a more front foot game maybe we can still go on that run we need.2
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I don't recall ever seeing us soak up that much pressure without the opposition scoring. That said, they hardly created a real chance - which was certainly in part down to the Addicks defence keeping them well away from the danger area. Deji and especially Pratley were terrific.
Needed to hold on to the ball more, and be willing to have a shot when the chance comes.3 -
How are MK toothless? Bowyer nullified their attack by taking out their best player.MuttleyCAFC said:Having had time to ponder on the performance after we scored, I can understand that it was a reaction to a loss of confidence. We can't keep playing like that and expect to make the play offs and we shouldn't paper over the fact that a toothless MKDons helped us, but if we bank that and start playing a more front foot game maybe we can still go on that run we need.We went 1-0 up and defended, hoping to hit them on the break. We were a tad unlucky on not scoring a second.
Perfect away performance.6 -
If Millar would have found him for the easy pass last night Ronnie would have had a tap in to make 2-0. Probably would have changed opinions as he getting in the correct positions but we aren’t finding him with the pass when he’s open.killerandflash said:
Ronnie is a much better finisher BUT he wasn't being played as that last night.SamE7 said:
...but Ronnie looks like a much better finisher and versatile player so that point really is voidkillerandflash said:The role Ronnie played when he came on, which seemed to be wide midfield and run around a bit, Paul Smyth would have been a better option...
I'm not sure he's that versatile, he's a fox in the box1 -
schwarz and morgan might have been better swopping roleskillerandflash said:The role Ronnie played when he came on, which seemed to be wide midfield and run around a bit, Paul Smyth would have been a better option...1 -
Ok, looking at that game from a MK Dons perspective, they overplayed against a team that kept giving the ball back to them. Yes, we defended well in the final third, but they needed to take a few more risks and get the ball into the danger areas more in the expectation that any clearances would go back to them. They didn't buy enough raffle tickets is essence.Redrobo said:
How are MK toothless? Bowyer nullified their attack by taking out their best player.MuttleyCAFC said:Having had time to ponder on the performance after we scored, I can understand that it was a reaction to a loss of confidence. We can't keep playing like that and expect to make the play offs and we shouldn't paper over the fact that a toothless MKDons helped us, but if we bank that and start playing a more front foot game maybe we can still go on that run we need.We went 1-0 up and defended, hoping to hit them on the break. We were a tad unlucky on not scoring a second.
Perfect away performance.
I am happy they didn't. As others have mentioned they like to pass. But they are 16th in the table which suggests they may not have the balance right in that respect.2 -
How about that Washington huh? Another contributionDOUCHER said:Got to say it was unconvincing and painful to watch - i have been clinging on to the view that we will go on a run now we have better forward players (and the centre halves come back) and we will start to sweep sides away - just hoping that yesterday was a hangover from the bad run / nerves but the pattern is still there atm - go behind and we stay on the front foot, watch an entertaining game and bemoan our luck / mistakes and draw or go in front and endure an age of defending and clinging on - hope this changes as we get a few wins under our belt and relax because its not an ideal loop to be stuck in. Once we get a few goals up and see a game out comfortably is when we can start seriously thinking about our promotion chances. as soon as we scored we just seem to stop playing - did bowyer instruct this or did it just happen - chalk and cheese before and after the goal.4 -
Have to say I was surprised at the lack of urgency shown by MK in the final 10 mins.MuttleyCAFC said:
Ok, looking at that game from a MK Dons perspective, they overplayed against a team that kept giving the ball back to them. Yes, we defended well in the final third, but they needed to take a few more risks and get the ball into the danger areas more in the expectation that any clearances would go back to them. They didn't buy enough raffle tickets is essence.Redrobo said:
How are MK toothless? Bowyer nullified their attack by taking out their best player.MuttleyCAFC said:Having had time to ponder on the performance after we scored, I can understand that it was a reaction to a loss of confidence. We can't keep playing like that and expect to make the play offs and we shouldn't paper over the fact that a toothless MKDons helped us, but if we bank that and start playing a more front foot game maybe we can still go on that run we need.We went 1-0 up and defended, hoping to hit them on the break. We were a tad unlucky on not scoring a second.
Perfect away performance.
I am happy they didn't. As others have mentioned they like to pass. But they are 16th in the table which suggests they may not have the balance right in that respect.0 - Sponsored links:
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A much needed 3pts with a clean sheet
Great first 25 mins, a very hard watch second half but the team showed heart and a desire to hold on for
the win.
Oshilaja, Millar and Pratley are the stand out players for me1 -
They have an exceptional home record and I think suggesting that they just overplayed it is oversimplification. I lost count how many times their lanky centre half was looking for a forward pass to make, but couldn’t because they were so well marked. Waved his arms in the air and passed it backwards.MuttleyCAFC said:
Ok, looking at that game from a MK Dons perspective, they overplayed against a team that kept giving the ball back to them. Yes, we defended well in the final third, but they needed to take a few more risks and get the ball into the danger areas more in the expectation that any clearances would go back to them. They didn't buy enough raffle tickets is essence.Redrobo said:
How are MK toothless? Bowyer nullified their attack by taking out their best player.MuttleyCAFC said:Having had time to ponder on the performance after we scored, I can understand that it was a reaction to a loss of confidence. We can't keep playing like that and expect to make the play offs and we shouldn't paper over the fact that a toothless MKDons helped us, but if we bank that and start playing a more front foot game maybe we can still go on that run we need.We went 1-0 up and defended, hoping to hit them on the break. We were a tad unlucky on not scoring a second.
Perfect away performance.
I am happy they didn't. As others have mentioned they like to pass. But they are 16th in the table which suggests they may not have the balance right in that respect.
We sucked the space out of the game and they have a big pitch. They were passing back to the GK, hitting passes out for throw ins and goal kicks. They were out thought and outfought. This was a fantastic team effort. We weren’t selling tickets.10 -
I'd argue that it was precisely because MK are a proficient passing side that we set-up and played the way we did.golfaddick said:Glad for the won & the clean sheet, but let's not get carried away with ourselves. We played well for 20 mins, scored & then ran out of ideas. The only reason why we won was because MK Don's like to pass the ball. As someone said, on 90+3 mins they were still passing it around the back & not even contemplating hoofing it forward. Another team on another day would have been causing mayhem in the last 15 & would have probably nicked a goal.....or even 2.
However......it wasn't another team or another day & like Saturday you take tte smooth with the rough. We created enough chances on Saturday to win 2 games but didnt - tonight we created one real chance & scored from it (just like teams have done to us). I'll take the 3 points & move on
Shout out to Millar (my MOTM) followed closely by Pratley & Shinnie. Thought we fell apart on the 2nd half & Aneke, Schwartz & especially Morgan all combined to make us worse. Just hope it was a blip from them as we'll be counting on them over the next 20 games.
Bowyer learned the lessons of the reverse fixture and deployed a strategy and tactics that nullified the dominance they enjoyed in that game.
If MK had started "hoofing it forward" we would have had no need to deploy Pratley in a man-marking role, which incidentally completely subdued their main playmaker.
It was horses for courses and Bowyer got it spot-on on a crap playing surface.
To be pedantic we didn't create "one real chance" - there was the Stockley attempted piledriver from just outside the box and the Pratley opening which he should have leathered.
Was it the perfect performance - of course it bloody wasn't.
At times we struggled to maintain the press as we tired and worst of all kept giving the ball away cheaply thus inviting pressure that at times in the second half seemed relentless.
But encouragingly we stuck at it as a team, defended resolutely and put our bodies on the line and gutsed out a precious result.
Hopefully will give the players confidence and help to allay any doubts caused by the recent spate of individual errors costing us games.
Finally I keep reading people stating that" the opposition are shit" and expecting us to steamroller them and then concluding that we are shit when we don't. It's fecking League One, put your bloody expectations in order.
We are going to have to earn every point we get and for the most part it won't be pretty.
I'm encouraged by recent performances and believe we are well set for a shot at the play-offs which was the remit for this season8 -
You say what you saw and I'll say what I saw. It was a very good result, and aspects of the performance were good. It is great we didn't gift anything defensively as we are prone to do. That is a positive. But I don't think that was anything to go overboard over. Maybe a stepping stone to a more confident team, but hopefully not a blueprint for how we will continue this season.1
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As someone who has questioned Bowyer's choices in recent times, I think he needs to get at least some of the credit here. They are quite dependant on one player to turn that possession into dangerous play at the key moment. Pratley nullifying that player in turn neutralised the rest of their team by extension.MuttleyCAFC said:
Ok, looking at that game from a MK Dons perspective, they overplayed against a team that kept giving the ball back to them. Yes, we defended well in the final third, but they needed to take a few more risks and get the ball into the danger areas more in the expectation that any clearances would go back to them. They didn't buy enough raffle tickets is essence.Redrobo said:
How are MK toothless? Bowyer nullified their attack by taking out their best player.MuttleyCAFC said:Having had time to ponder on the performance after we scored, I can understand that it was a reaction to a loss of confidence. We can't keep playing like that and expect to make the play offs and we shouldn't paper over the fact that a toothless MKDons helped us, but if we bank that and start playing a more front foot game maybe we can still go on that run we need.We went 1-0 up and defended, hoping to hit them on the break. We were a tad unlucky on not scoring a second.
Perfect away performance.
I am happy they didn't. As others have mentioned they like to pass. But they are 16th in the table which suggests they may not have the balance right in that respect.
Similarly, the defence did seem (in the first half at least) to be set up with the notion that MK were always going to have a lot of the ball but as long as it stayed in their defence/midfield area it wasn't any real threat. We did drop deeper and more pressure came as a consequence admittedly.
This doesn't suddenly make Bowyer a tactical genius nor does it ignore he has made mistakes before and may well do so again. But it does at least suggest he's more open to trying alternative plans than some (including myself) feared.5 -
Slightly puzzled why MKD have such a "pure" passing style of football, considering their manager isn't a Spanish Pep disciple, but rather former Norwich defender Russell Martin!4
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Yes, I agree, Pratley had a good game and Fraser was the stand out player at ours linking a lot of their play. He certainly stopped him doing that yesterday.
I'll give Bowyer credit in the way we started too. They clearly like to build their play via their defenders playing it upfield. We pressed them very well and it looked like a matter of time before we scored.
What wasn't so great was after we scored, we stopped doing it and allowed their defenders to do this without challenge. My point, and people can choose to believe what they want to believe, is that MK Dons didn't make the most of it. They had a three decent chances, the corner where they hit the post, the chance where Amos made himself big and the deflection onto the roof of the net. There was an element of good luck in us not losing a goal in one of those opportunities.
As a point towards getting to where we want to be, yesterday did its job. But surely people can see it was that and not where we want to be. A good win on Saturday and we could well see more confidence and sometimes you have to win ugly. But that is what we did yesterday.0 -
Could be he had a lightbulb moment when he thought, maybe there's more than one way of playingkillerandflash said:Slightly puzzled why MKD have such a "pure" passing style of football, considering their manager isn't a Spanish Pep disciple, but rather former Norwich defender Russell Martin!
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Excellent, we looked like a cohesive proper football team from the off.
We did what we have rarely done lately.
We attacked and defended as a team.
When we needed to defend we got men behind the ball and blocked their pathway to goal.
The defence wasn't horribly exposed as it has been, nobody was allowed to waltz through and nobody was given the opportunity to shoot without being closed down.
The defence and the keeper looked solid because they were afforded some protection.
A special mention to Pratley MOM, JFC and Millar for their outstanding effort, we need this every game.
I still think (others disagree) that we are better off hitting a winning formula now and ending the season strongly (rather than have had a winning streak in the early winter and falling away in the spring).
If we can keep up that level of performance, automatics are not impossible and the play offs are very likely.
If we make the play offs as the "best" team I believe we can win them, even if the Championship stats from 2005-2015 say it's unlikely.5 -
It may be they have a couple of pieces in the puzzle missing but are working towards something that could work for them in the future. If they don't get relegated that is!0
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One of the best things we did tactically last night, other than Pratters nullifying Fraser, was letting the tall middle centre back (Darling was it?) have the ball. His passing was awful, and it became one of our best attacking weapons.
Appreciate people think we didn't play that well offensively and in terms of ball retention, but we did a job on the team we had to beat, including letting them overpass.2 -
"They had three decent chances" - yeh, so did we.MuttleyCAFC said:Yes, I agree, Pratley had a good game and Fraser was the stand out player at ours linking a lot of their play. He certainly stopped him doing that yesterday.
I'll give Bowyer credit in the way we started too. They clearly like to build their play via their defenders playing it upfield. We pressed them very well and it looked like a matter of time before we scored.
What wasn't so great was after we scored, we stopped doing it and allowed their defenders to do this without challenge. My point, and people can choose to believe what they want to believe, is that MK Dons didn't make the most of it. They had a three decent chances, the corner where they hit the post, the chance where Amos made himself big and the deflection onto the roof of the net. There was an element of good luck in us not losing a goal in one of those opportunities.
As a point towards getting to where we want to be, yesterday did its job. But surely people can see it was that and not where we want to be. A good win on Saturday and we could well see more confidence and sometimes you have to win ugly. But that is what we did yesterday.
It's pointless playing coulda, woulda, shoulda.
In your other points you seem to be pretty much in agreement with myself and others.
The difference is you are choosing to reflect negatively on that, whereas I am reflecting positively.2 -
I think we'd all settle for the play offs now, however its a lottery in going up. Maybe if you're in form your chances of going up go from 25% to 30%. Still pretty low.Covered End said:Excellent, we looked like a cohesive proper football team from the off.
We did what we have rarely done lately.
We attacked and defended as a team.
When we needed to defend we got men behind the ball and blocked their pathway to goal.
The defence wasn't horribly exposed as it has been, nobody was allowed to waltz through and nobody was given the opportunity to shoot without being closed down.
The defence and the keeper looked solid because they were afforded some protection.
A special mention to Pratley MOM, JFC and Millar for their outstanding effort, we need this every game.
I still think (others disagree) that we are better off hitting a winning formula now and ending the season strongly (rather than have had a winning streak in the early winter and falling away in the spring).
If we can keep up that level of performance, automatics are not impossible and the play offs are very likely.
If we make the play offs as the "best" team I believe we can win them, even if the Championship stats from 2005-2015 say it's unlikely.0 -
I think I am reflecting in a measured way observing both negatives and positives.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
"They had three decent chances" - yeh, so did we.MuttleyCAFC said:Yes, I agree, Pratley had a good game and Fraser was the stand out player at ours linking a lot of their play. He certainly stopped him doing that yesterday.
I'll give Bowyer credit in the way we started too. They clearly like to build their play via their defenders playing it upfield. We pressed them very well and it looked like a matter of time before we scored.
What wasn't so great was after we scored, we stopped doing it and allowed their defenders to do this without challenge. My point, and people can choose to believe what they want to believe, is that MK Dons didn't make the most of it. They had a three decent chances, the corner where they hit the post, the chance where Amos made himself big and the deflection onto the roof of the net. There was an element of good luck in us not losing a goal in one of those opportunities.
As a point towards getting to where we want to be, yesterday did its job. But surely people can see it was that and not where we want to be. A good win on Saturday and we could well see more confidence and sometimes you have to win ugly. But that is what we did yesterday.
It's pointless playing coulda, woulda, shoulda.
In your other points you seem to be pretty much in agreement with myself and others.
The difference is you are choosing to reflect negatively on that, whereas I am reflecting positively.1 -
Tin hat on but I'm going to say this.
I openly admit I would have played a midfield of Shinnie, JFC, Morgan and Millar last night. Morgan & JFC did well together in central midfield against Bristol Rovers, both putting their foot in and creating chances. But fair play, Bowyer called it right - turned out Pratley was the man for last night and he did put in a great performance.
But I'm sorry, I don't buy this Pratley is now an automatic starter and we need to build a team around him stuff. Let's not rewrite history - only last Saturday against Swindon his first half performance was poor. Don't believe me - look at the match thread comments. Sure, he will have a key role to play in games like last night but at the Valley if teams start packing out their defence we are going to need a bit more guile from our midfield to unlock them. (Incidentally, I'm a Morgan fan but his cameo substitute appearance last night wasn't great and did little to support my belief he should be starting.)
Nor do I think last night's performance was that good. Sure, 1-0 away wins on a wet night on a mudbath pitch will win a team promotion and the team is to be hugely congratulated on digging in and winning last night. But after a very bright opening 20 minutes, we were on the back foot for the rest of the game. Did we even have an on-target shot in the second half? This time we held out thanks not only to some good defending but a bit of luck which hasn't gone our way lately and some powder-puff attacking from MK Dons. Even so, there were still a few shots from them that whistled past our goal a bit too close for comfort.
I'm delighted that LB seems to have stopped playing players out of position. I hope the team now goes on a 6 or 7 game unbeaten run but I saw little last night that convinces me we will do so. Given the squad has been strengthened considerably in this transfer window with the signings of Stockley, Schwartz and Millar - and the last one looks to have a real future in front of him - that is something we surely should be capable of doing now, even given our continuing lack of central defenders.
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Exactly where I am at on this.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Tin hat on but I'm going to say this.
I openly admit I would have played a midfield of Shinnie, JFC, Morgan and Millar last night. Morgan & JFC did well together in central midfield against Bristol Rovers, both putting their foot in and creating chances. But fair play, Bowyer called it right - turned out Pratley was the man for last night and he did put in a great performance.
But I'm sorry, I don't buy this Pratley is now an automatic starter and we need to build a team around him stuff. Let's not rewrite history - only last Saturday against Swindon his first half performance was poor. Don't believe me - look at the match thread comments. Sure, he will have a key role to play in games like last night but at the Valley if teams start packing out their defence we are going to need a bit more guile from our midfield to unlock them. (Incidentally, I'm a Morgan fan but his cameo substitute appearance last night wasn't great and did little to support my belief he should be starting.)
Nor do I think last night's performance was that good. Sure, 1-0 away wins on a wet night on a mudbath pitch will win a team promotion and the team is to be hugely congratulated on digging in and winning last night. But after a very bright opening 20 minutes, we were on the back foot for the rest of the game. Did we even have an on-target shot in the second half? This time we held out thanks not only to some good defending but a bit of luck which hasn't gone our way lately and some powder-puff attacking from MK Dons. Even so, there were still a few shots from them that whistled past our goal a bit too close for comfort.
I'm delighted that LB seems to have stopped playing players out of position. I hope the team now goes on a 6 or 7 game unbeaten run but I saw little last night that convinces me we will do so. Given the squad has been strengthened considerably in this transfer window with the signings of Stockley, Schwartz and Millar - and the last one looks to have a real future in front of him - that is something we surely should be capable of doing now, even given our continuing lack of central defenders.
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Please quote who said we should build a team around Pratley. Must have missed it.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Tin hat on but I'm going to say this.
I openly admit I would have played a midfield of Shinnie, JFC, Morgan and Millar last night. Morgan & JFC did well together in central midfield against Bristol Rovers, both putting their foot in and creating chances. But fair play, Bowyer called it right - turned out Pratley was the man for last night and he did put in a great performance.
But I'm sorry, I don't buy this Pratley is now an automatic starter and we need to build a team around him stuff. Let's not rewrite history - only last Saturday against Swindon his first half performance was poor. Don't believe me - look at the match thread comments. Sure, he will have a key role to play in games like last night but at the Valley if teams start packing out their defence we are going to need a bit more guile from our midfield to unlock them. (Incidentally, I'm a Morgan fan but his cameo substitute appearance last night wasn't great and did little to support my belief he should be starting.)
Nor do I think last night's performance was that good. Sure, 1-0 away wins on a wet night on a mudbath pitch will win a team promotion and the team is to be hugely congratulated on digging in and winning last night. But after a very bright opening 20 minutes, we were on the back foot for the rest of the game. Did we even have an on-target shot in the second half? This time we held out thanks not only to some good defending but a bit of luck which hasn't gone our way lately and some powder-puff attacking from MK Dons. Even so, there were still a few shots from them that whistled past our goal a bit too close for comfort.
I'm delighted that LB seems to have stopped playing players out of position. I hope the team now goes on a 6 or 7 game unbeaten run but I saw little last night that convinces me we will do so. Given the squad has been strengthened considerably in this transfer window with the signings of Stockley, Schwartz and Millar - and the last one looks to have a real future in front of him - that is something we surely should be capable of doing now, even given our continuing lack of central defenders.
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I don't think this point has ever been stated or even impliedFortune 82nd Minute said:
But I'm sorry, I don't buy this Pratley is now an automatic starter and we need to build a team around him stuff.
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Yeh, maybe what I was trying to say was that the upshot of your reflections was a negative conclusion.MuttleyCAFC said:
I think I am reflecting in a measured way observing both negatives and positives.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:
"They had three decent chances" - yeh, so did we.MuttleyCAFC said:Yes, I agree, Pratley had a good game and Fraser was the stand out player at ours linking a lot of their play. He certainly stopped him doing that yesterday.
I'll give Bowyer credit in the way we started too. They clearly like to build their play via their defenders playing it upfield. We pressed them very well and it looked like a matter of time before we scored.
What wasn't so great was after we scored, we stopped doing it and allowed their defenders to do this without challenge. My point, and people can choose to believe what they want to believe, is that MK Dons didn't make the most of it. They had a three decent chances, the corner where they hit the post, the chance where Amos made himself big and the deflection onto the roof of the net. There was an element of good luck in us not losing a goal in one of those opportunities.
As a point towards getting to where we want to be, yesterday did its job. But surely people can see it was that and not where we want to be. A good win on Saturday and we could well see more confidence and sometimes you have to win ugly. But that is what we did yesterday.
It's pointless playing coulda, woulda, shoulda.
In your other points you seem to be pretty much in agreement with myself and others.
The difference is you are choosing to reflect negatively on that, whereas I am reflecting positively.
At least that's how I read it.0 -
If I was LB, I'd be trying to identify what happened after 30 minutes of the game and trying to build a contingency plan for future games.
Really encouraging signs of improvement.
Hope it's not too late.
Cliche time, but Saturday is a huge game.
Come on you reds.0
