Southgate took us to a semi final and final (lost on pens). Your even contemplating getting rid of him? 🙈 each to their own and all that.
Could have got to a final and won the euros with a decent manager so yes I would 100% contemplate getting rid of him. We probably have the best squad in world football right now other than France and we played awful football this whole tournament and at the last world cup. France went out because their manager pulled a Southgate and set them up ridiculously by minimising their strengths and maximising their weakness. Mancini and Enrique show what a good manager can do with squads not as talented as ours.
Italy absolutely bossed us and the only players I'd take from them are veratti and jorginho (who Southgate would probably bench as he wouldn't know what to do with them). Spain absolutely bossed Italy and the only players I'd take from them are pedri and busquets (and I doubt Pedri would get a look in under Southgate). No idea why people are happy with the way we play with the sheer quality we possess.
The only excuse for playing the way we do is to win and we didn't even do that. The players got us to the final with their quality, Southgate lost us it.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
Watched it back a couple of times & I still don't understand why that's not a red card
Emerson one was questionable too. Watched Wales get 2 reds for softer tackles.
It could have been deemed a red but I think the fact first contact was on the ball saved him. Calling for the Chiellini drag back on Saka to be a red is ridiculous.
Think everyone understands it’s not a red, but it should be.
It was blatant cheating, the most clearcut of yellows possible. Yes it wasn’t stopping an obvious scoring chance, although we were in.
But it was arguably also violent, choked Saka round the throat. Might have been a red in Rugby FFS. Definitely a yellow / sin bin
Compare it to the Beckham sending off in 98 for example. What’s the more violent act?
Think Chiellini could also have been pinged for fouling Stones for the goal on another day.
I accept we lost it (or didn’t win it) in the second half when we should have changed things earlier, but threat of pace towards the end of the game was perhaps our strongest card and we were cheated out of it.
Btw I was there last. Was very, very feisty beforehand, but no more than that from what I saw. Some lads without tickets tried to squeeze in behind us. But atmosphere after was relatively calm. People sitting near us were great. Didn’t boo anthems or knee taking, everything was positive support for the team. Probably the biggest one off event in this country this century. Shame a minority are selfish bellends.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.
Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.
Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday.
Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.
Who from the Spanish team would you have over our players btw? They were all over Italy in the same way Italy were all over us and should have beaten them with the chances they created. If we could play like that and create like that with the players we have then we would have stood a much much higher chance of winning that final and that is all down to the difference in class between the managers and their tactics / playing mentality.
We beat the teams we should be beating (Scotland apart) and don’t beat the teams we shouldn’t . We’re a decent team who have ridden the crest of favourable draws , there’s definitely more to come but they’ll need to open up a bit more and be expansive if their gonna win footballs top prize next year .
World Cup
13% winners 12% runners up 25% losing semi 25% losing quarters 15% losing last 16 10% out in the group stage
it’s not coming homing home till we get a personality
Reading the reaction from around Europe on Reddit, they are all asking why we would bring on substitutions cold to take penalties. Also asking why we would give the decisive penalty to a nineteen-year-old. So even the neutrals are calling out those decisions.
Clearly Southgate has chosen the 'best' penalty takers on the training ground, but taking a penalty in a knockout tournament doesn't seem to be about technique so much as nerve and to a certain extent, form. I'm not sure the question should be: is he a good technical penalty taker? ... So much as, does this player have the state of mind to go and smash it in?
As Peter Crouch said on his podcast recently, it's rare a player will miss a penalty on the training ground. But stepping up in a big match to take one is a completely different proposition, and it's 90% strength of mind.
A lot of good lessons to be learned from that match. I think (and hope) GS is smart enough to learn them. But I did think the early goal and the way we sat back was too similar to Croatia, and we changed it too little and too late again.
Still, I was just happy for us to be in a final, to be honest.
The thing that bothers me is that why Southgate didn't know that in the first place?! You know it, i know it, half of Europe you're saying know it but not the England manager.
I woke up at 4am and watched the second half, extra time and the penalty shootout. Was sad that England lost.
Not just half Europe were questioning Southgate's decision making... All the comments I saw on Chinese social media and heard at my workplace were similar. Many criticised Southgate for being way too negative besides the apparently wrong penalty takers selection. I know my opinions will be unpopular on here having read this thread but... why after Croatia 2018, would you still do the same ie. sit so deep having scored early? You think a one goal lead would be enough to win the game against a side like Italy? Or were you just putting all your hope in a penalty shootout?(which is erm.. cowardly in my opinion because if you lose on penalty it’s down to bad luck and you get away with it.) Italian players are physically much bigger and stronger so defending a one goal lead against them is extremely difficult. You are not a Sam Allardyce type of team (cue Bolton) so you can’t just retreat to your own half and keep defending in the hope that luck will go your way - you earn your luck. With the way you played in the second half it was simply a matter of time you conceded.
Having said the above, I must point out that I really like this team of players. Rice was absolutely incredible especially in the final. Sterling changed my old impressions of him. I think he was one of the most hardworking players in the team. Shaw has become my new favourite England player - I liked him when he was in Southampton and it’s truly an inspiration that after having a potentially career-destroying injury he has not only fully recovered but gone on to be one of the best left-backs in Europe - hope that’s not an exaggeration. (And Mourinho would you shut up? So pathetic.) Mount and Foden caught my eye in the first game - sadly Mount was not as impressive in the latter stage of the tournament while Foden couldn’t play due to injury but these two will be the ones that I look forward to watching in WC 2022. Last but not least, Pickford - I happened to have watched his Premier League debut back in 2016 - it was a 1-4 loss to Spurs. I was thinking Sunderland were really brave to play such a young goalkeeper in league games. Over five years later now he’s England’s No.1 keeper and the saves he made in games against Denmark and Italy were superb!! The Italian keeper saved three relatively easy pens while Pickford saved two difficult ones. He would have been the national hero if Rashford and co’s pens had gone in. 👏👏👏
Hi Jessie, I too got up at 4 to watch the game. The way the team was set up in my opinion was for the counter attack. That worked for the first 15 minutes or so, but the wily Italians saw through it and as the game progressed they grew into the game in a big atmosphere Wembley Stadium. I think the dominated the second half because we hadn't changed our formation....the packed midfield was overrun in my opinion. The pick of the Italians for me was Chiesa, powerful and direct.
We looked better in the extra time period, but the changes were made far too late.
Having said all this I absolutely hate Italian football. They are skilful, but the cynical fouling and rolling around like they have been gutted when they get the slightest touch is very difficult to stomach...it was evident in this team and has been evident in past Italian teams.
Mancini is still a tart even as he gets older, fussing with his hair in just about every close up shot, but he did make changes and at the right times to good effect. Lets hope all the boys and Southgate have leaned a valuable lesson. Im very proud of our boys, nobody least of all me, expected to go so far. There really is something there for us to build on. Roll on the WC.
Far be it from me to offer Southgate advice, but I believe if he made one tweak to his approach we may have done even better. That is not to change your thinking or set up but if you feel control slipping away in a game, change it quickly. That is all.
I recall when I was assisting a manager and we were really struggling. I said to him that we had to change it quickly before we went behind. He agreed but said he didn't know how to change it to make a difference. I said, neither do I but we can see what we are doing isn't working so doing something different can't make things worse.
We did change it and still got well beaten, but at least we tried. I would say that Southgate probably had better options than we did and the point stands. It is that point where you can see what is probably going to happen, but it hasn't happened yet that is the difficult part for a manager at all levels.
Far be it from me to offer Southgate advice, but I believe if he made one tweak to his approach we may have done even better. That is not to change your thinking or set up but if you feel control slipping away in a game, change it quickly. That is all.
Mate we saw the same thing against Croatia in the semi final and Holland in the nations league, Colombia in the last 16. We don’t have enough shots which is purely down to the manager being defensive minded. Ukraine was the exception.
At Qatar Southgate must get us to be more bold and positive with the football. That is the next step we must take to win anything.
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
I don't have an issue with a defensive mindset. It is only when it clearly isn't working do I advocate changing it. When Italy scored, you could sort of feel a goal might be coming. We couldn't get the ball to our offensive players, to relieve some pressure at least, as we were sitting too deep. That is the point you do something, not wait for it the goal to come.
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
They were pre-planned pen takers. If Rashford wasn’t in the right frame of mind then he should of said something. I’m sure Southgate would of checked with his pen takers before they took them they were still okay to take one? It’s what he was doing when he was walking around the huddle is presume. Or is Rashford ‘wasn’t in the right frame of mind’ in hindsight?
I don't know. There would have been an immense amount on pressure for him to take one given he was brought on a left back for a minute with the sole purpose of taking a penalty. In all honesty, he is a reliable penalty taker and has history of converting pressure kicks. I think it probably wasn't the time to take the sort of kick he did but these things happen.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.
Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.
Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday.
Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.
You forgot the bloke that saved two of our penalties?
Interesting hearing your Views @Jessie and you make some valid points.
Despite yet again taking the lead, similar to the Croatia game in the WC, the big difference was we had a better team and squad this time. No Dier and Ali, an improved Sterling, Kane, Walker, Stones, Trippier who all had good Tournaments. Shaw once he got the shirt from Chilwell because he was resting after the CL final was sensational and was the England star player over the 7 matches. Maguire was a man mountain once he was fit to play. Rice and Phillips were excellent. Pickford had one erratic game against Denmark but is improved.
But, we were playing Italy in the final and 1 goal was unlikely to be enough to win it. Giving international teams with good technical ability 66% of the possession is so difficult mentally and physically in the biggest games of their lives to stop scoring over 90 or 120 minutes. We did it very well but then switched off at a corner with several England players in poor positions.
Until Grealish, Foden, Rice, Bellingham or someone is given licence to try to command the middle of the park, we will continue to rely on going the distance and you know what comes next !
To everyone questioning Southgate - I think he's sorted our defensive side, now he just needs to make the front 3/4 work better. Too often Kane was too deep and the wingers therefore were also too deep or Kane was too far forward and best CB in the world right now was on his shoulder, out jumping, out fouling and generally bullying him.
I am sure Southgate recognises that we need to adapt our forward play and I am sure we'll see the benefits next season.
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
They were pre-planned pen takers. If Rashford wasn’t in the right frame of mind then he should of said something. I’m sure Southgate would of checked with his pen takers before they took them they were still okay to take one? It’s what he was doing when he was walking around the huddle is presume. Or is Rashford ‘wasn’t in the right frame of mind’ in hindsight?
But there's an argument that the pre plan went out of the window somewhat. For instance how about Shaw taking one? Arguably one of the players of the tournament just scored a goal and brimming with confidence?
Anyway, it's pens and a lottery so there's no real right or wrong. I'm just trying to think how I would feel if I'd hardly kicked a ball all tournament and he'd asked me to come in cold and take a pen in the biggest game of our time.
Madness. Take the starting elevens of each team last night. The only English players that get into that Italian XI are Kane, Sterling, Shaw and Walker. Some massively overstating the quality in our ranks.
The English are all very good players and we have probably the best depth in the world at the moment but the Italians are 34 unbeaten because they have probably the best XI in world football.
Donnarumma over Pickford Walker over Di Lorenzo Bonucci over Stones Chiellini over Maguire Shaw over Emerson Jorginho over Rice Verratti over Phillips Barella over Mount Sterling over Insigne Kane over Immobile
To everyone questioning Southgate - I think he's sorted our defensive side, now he just needs to make the front 3/4 work better. Too often Kane was too deep and the wingers therefore were also too deep or Kane was too far forward and best CB in the world right now was on his shoulder, out jumping, out fouling and generally bullying him.
I am sure Southgate recognises that we need to adapt our forward play and I am sure we'll see the benefits next season.
I thought Kane caused both centre halfs a lot of problems in the first 25 minutes, it was the most uncomfortable I had seen them in the whole tournament. It was only when Southgate decided we were going to defend our one goal lead they regained their composure.
We must also remember both of them were booked in the second half meaning we should have played through them drawing fouls and exploiting getting one of them a second booking and sent off.
Left the pub straight after the game & the streets in the town centre were full of youngsters fighting & arguing with each other. Heard a couple of pubs got shut down during the game too. I just don't get it.
Some proper bellends about last night & an England defeat always seems to bring out the worst in these twats
Should have been a 3pm kick off, would have stopped a load of trouble
The Euros and World Cup Finals have always been at 8pm on a Sunday
Unfortunately a number of England fans (wont call them a large number as dont think they represent the majority of our fans) have proven their immaturity compared to when other Nations get to a Final
Sorry to be a pedant but the Euro 1988 final was actually a 15:30ko. Van Basten scored in daylight. I make you right on all the others though (I think!)
I think 92 was a Friday tea time wasn't it?
Think it was early evening if I remember right
Was 7.15pm GMT on a Friday night. Remember it like it was yesterday. And I was old enough to drink.
Rashford did everything right with his penalty and missed by less than 4 inches. Saka's not so good but he stood up to be counted. Good save by the keeper for the other one. The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty. Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs. Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant. By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better. Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
Rashford took one against Colombia, so in my opinion he had to take one against Italy. Pickford took the 5th one against Switzerland in the nations league, but was demoted to number 6 on the list this time around. Only person in my social circle whose getting criticism is Southgate for putting Saka up 5th.
Plenty of us think it was incorrect to put such a young player in that position. Especially, with that information that Grealish asked to take one etc.
I believe good people of Charlton Life we may not do well at the WC
But with the rub of the green will win the next Euro's in 2024 with Bellingham, Rice, Foden, James, Maguire, TAA, Chilwell (The brilliant Luke Shaw will be nearly 29 and 15 stone by then!) and a new 18 year old talent yet to be named. A.Trialist.
Let's also hope by 2024 there is no hiding place for pond life. Constructive criticism and subjective views *are the heartbeat of a society but the cowardly hate has to stop and be eradicated.
* I have been guilty of retaliation on CL but I'm a work in progress.
My shit theory based on my own fuckedupness is that I’d love to have taken a penalty and always wanted to in matches I played throughout my life (prolly missed 1 in 20 in my pathetic footballing career). The whole sickness and pressure thing is something I’d thrive on and would also prefer to be taking it down the Italian end to fcuk them up . I think I say this because my addiction is gambling and I love the thrill of it and the sickness of winning or losing and have no fear of the losing . So next penalty shootout we go for our players who have a gambling problem and they’d smash em all home for fun 🥴
Lots of people digging out Southgate for bringing on two penalty takers but that's hardly revolutionary, seen it happen many times. Netherlands even brought Krul on once with a minute to go. It doesn't help that they both missed and was also a bit shambolic that they made the change when Italy had a corner.
Rashford - woefully out of form for club and country. Hardly kicked a ball in the tournament. Bring him on completely cold to take a pen in the biggest game this country has ever seen for 50 odd years.
I think if Gareth had punched all that into his calculator it wouldn't of spat out the answer he was looking for.
Rashford has confirmed this morning that he wasn't in the right frame of mind before taking it. And who can blame him.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
They were pre-planned pen takers. If Rashford wasn’t in the right frame of mind then he should of said something. I’m sure Southgate would of checked with his pen takers before they took them they were still okay to take one? It’s what he was doing when he was walking around the huddle is presume. Or is Rashford ‘wasn’t in the right frame of mind’ in hindsight?
Exactly, can't really say he wasn't in the right frame of mind as if his penalty is a few inches the other way he scores right inside the post and everyone would be saying what a great pen it was.
Can see the method behind Southgate's madness, practice penalties in training and then pick the five best takers.
Problem is that training wont ever be able to replicate live match conditions
But I hope to god that when he was in that huddle, he turned around to the five takers and asked them if they still felt confident enough to be amongst the first five or whether they wanted someone else to take their place, reminding them that there was no shame in not wanting to be amongst the first five.
Trouble is, even those players would have known that they'd have been taking a penalty regardless had it gone far enough so equally thought that they may as well have gotten the responsibility out the way, rather than letting the nerves eat at them and end up in an even worse state.
Of course, we'll never know the real truth as Southgate has rightfully protected them from it all.
Reading the reaction from around Europe on Reddit, they are all asking why we would bring on substitutions cold to take penalties. Also asking why we would give the decisive penalty to a nineteen-year-old. So even the neutrals are calling out those decisions.
Clearly Southgate has chosen the 'best' penalty takers on the training ground, but taking a penalty in a knockout tournament doesn't seem to be about technique so much as nerve and to a certain extent, form. I'm not sure the question should be: is he a good technical penalty taker? ... So much as, does this player have the state of mind to go and smash it in?
As Peter Crouch said on his podcast recently, it's rare a player will miss a penalty on the training ground. But stepping up in a big match to take one is a completely different proposition, and it's 90% strength of mind.
A lot of good lessons to be learned from that match. I think (and hope) GS is smart enough to learn them. But I did think the early goal and the way we sat back was too similar to Croatia, and we changed it too little and too late again.
Still, I was just happy for us to be in a final, to be honest.
The thing that bothers me is that why Southgate didn't know that in the first place?! You know it, i know it, half of Europe you're saying know it but not the England manager.
I woke up at 4am and watched the second half, extra time and the penalty shootout. Was sad that England lost.
Not just half Europe were questioning Southgate's decision making... All the comments I saw on Chinese social media and heard at my workplace were similar. Many criticised Southgate for being way too negative besides the apparently wrong penalty takers selection. I know my opinions will be unpopular on here having read this thread but... why after Croatia 2018, would you still do the same ie. sit so deep having scored early? You think a one goal lead would be enough to win the game against a side like Italy? Or were you just putting all your hope in a penalty shootout?(which is erm.. cowardly in my opinion because if you lose on penalty it’s down to bad luck and you get away with it.) Italian players are physically much bigger and stronger so defending a one goal lead against them is extremely difficult. You are not a Sam Allardyce type of team (cue Bolton) so you can’t just retreat to your own half and keep defending in the hope that luck will go your way - you earn your luck. With the way you played in the second half it was simply a matter of time you conceded.
Having said the above, I must point out that I really like this team of players. Rice was absolutely incredible especially in the final. Sterling changed my old impressions of him. I think he was one of the most hardworking players in the team. Shaw has become my new favourite England player - I liked him when he was in Southampton and it’s truly an inspiration that after having a potentially career-destroying injury he has not only fully recovered but gone on to be one of the best left-backs in Europe - hope that’s not an exaggeration. (And Mourinho would you shut up? So pathetic.) Mount and Foden caught my eye in the first game - sadly Mount was not as impressive in the latter stage of the tournament while Foden couldn’t play due to injury but these two will be the ones that I look forward to watching in WC 2022. Last but not least, Pickford - I happened to have watched his Premier League debut back in 2016 - it was a 1-4 loss to Spurs. I was thinking Sunderland were really brave to play such a young goalkeeper in league games. Over five years later now he’s England’s No.1 keeper and the saves he made in games against Denmark and Italy were superb!! The Italian keeper saved three relatively easy pens while Pickford saved two difficult ones. He would have been the national hero if Rashford and co’s pens had gone in. 👏👏👏
I think of you as one of us Jessie. You should refer to England as 'we' and 'our' rather than 'you' and 'your' (just as you might refer to Charlton). If 'we' should ever play China, then you may of course (temporarily) refer to 'us' as 'you'.
Comments
Could have got to a final and won the euros with a decent manager so yes I would 100% contemplate getting rid of him. We probably have the best squad in world football right now other than France and we played awful football this whole tournament and at the last world cup. France went out because their manager pulled a Southgate and set them up ridiculously by minimising their strengths and maximising their weakness. Mancini and Enrique show what a good manager can do with squads not as talented as ours.
Italy absolutely bossed us and the only players I'd take from them are veratti and jorginho (who Southgate would probably bench as he wouldn't know what to do with them). Spain absolutely bossed Italy and the only players I'd take from them are pedri and busquets (and I doubt Pedri would get a look in under Southgate). No idea why people are happy with the way we play with the sheer quality we possess.
The only excuse for playing the way we do is to win and we didn't even do that. The players got us to the final with their quality, Southgate lost us it.
Donnarumma over Pickford
Walker over Di Lorenzo
Bonucci over Stones
Chiellini over Maguire
Shaw over Emerson
Jorginho over Rice
Verratti over Phillips
Barella over Mount
Sterling over Insigne
Kane over Immobile
But it was arguably also violent, choked Saka round the throat. Might have been a red in Rugby FFS. Definitely a yellow / sin bin
I accept we lost it (or didn’t win it) in the second half when we should have changed things earlier, but threat of pace towards the end of the game was perhaps our strongest card and we were cheated out of it.
Btw I was there last. Was very, very feisty beforehand, but no more than that from what I saw. Some lads without tickets tried to squeeze in behind us. But atmosphere after was relatively calm. People sitting near us were great. Didn’t boo anthems or knee taking, everything was positive support for the team. Probably the biggest one off event in this country this century. Shame a minority are selfish bellends.
I'll give you donnarumma, forgot about him but Pickford was actually very good this tournament.
Mount wouldn't be in my starting 11 after his early performances but he would for sure have got significant game time with Italy and would have actually been utilised properly. He was anonymous for us because of the system we play.
Disagree on the others except veratti and jorginho. Maguire would fit the Italians extremely well with his ability on the ball and Stones has just won the premier league and played in the champions league final so more than good enough for me and I don't see bonucci or chiellini as being a real upgrade. We made it easy for both of them yesterday.
Sancho, grealish and foden would all walk into that Italian team as well.
We’re a decent team who have ridden the crest of favourable draws , there’s definitely more to come but they’ll need to open up a bit more and be expansive if their gonna win footballs top prize next year .
World Cup
13% winners
12% runners up
25% losing semi
25% losing quarters
15% losing last 16
10% out in the group stage
it’s not coming homing home till we get a personality
We looked better in the extra time period, but the changes were made far too late.
Having said all this I absolutely hate Italian football. They are skilful, but the cynical fouling and rolling around like they have been gutted when they get the slightest touch is very difficult to stomach...it was evident in this team and has been evident in past Italian teams.
Mancini is still a tart even as he gets older, fussing with his hair in just about every close up shot, but he did make changes and at the right times to good effect. Lets hope all the boys and Southgate have leaned a valuable lesson. Im very proud of our boys, nobody least of all me, expected to go so far. There really is something there for us to build on. Roll on the WC.
We did change it and still got well beaten, but at least we tried. I would say that Southgate probably had better options than we did and the point stands. It is that point where you can see what is probably going to happen, but it hasn't happened yet that is the difficult part for a manager at all levels.
At Qatar Southgate must get us to be more bold and positive with the football. That is the next step we must take to win anything.
If I've got one complaint at Southgate, and they are few, it's reading the room in some match situations. I'm still amazed with how he let the latter stages of that game pan out.
Madness
Despite yet again taking the lead, similar to the Croatia game in the WC, the big difference was we had a better team and squad this time.
No Dier and Ali, an improved Sterling, Kane, Walker, Stones, Trippier who all had good Tournaments. Shaw once he got the shirt from Chilwell because he was resting after the CL final was sensational and was the England star player over the 7 matches.
Maguire was a man mountain once he was fit to play. Rice and Phillips were excellent.
Pickford had one erratic game against Denmark but is improved.
But, we were playing Italy in the final and 1 goal was unlikely to be enough to win it.
Giving international teams with good technical ability 66% of the possession is so difficult mentally and physically in the biggest games of their lives to stop scoring over 90 or 120 minutes. We did it very well but then switched off at a corner with several England players in poor positions.
Until Grealish, Foden, Rice, Bellingham or someone is given licence to try to command the middle of the park, we will continue to rely on going the distance and you know what comes next !
Heartbreak and tears.
I am sure Southgate recognises that we need to adapt our forward play and I am sure we'll see the benefits next season.
For instance how about Shaw taking one? Arguably one of the players of the tournament just scored a goal and brimming with confidence?
Anyway, it's pens and a lottery so there's no real right or wrong. I'm just trying to think how I would feel if I'd hardly kicked a ball all tournament and he'd asked me to come in cold and take a pen in the biggest game of our time.
We must also remember both of them were booked in the second half meaning we should have played through them drawing fouls and exploiting getting one of them a second booking and sent off.
We did the opposite
The subs were correct, you need penalty takers on the pitch. The two that came on were not on there to do much other than take a penalty.
Anyone can miss or have a penalty saved. The European champions missed 2 of theirs.
Tactically we were good for the first 30 minutes then Italians were able to exploit our setup. 2nd half we were in danger of having a new arse torn for us, they were that dominant.
By anyone's measure we had a very successful Euros, only one team had better.
Fine margins between success and failure but still a great achievement to finish as runners up to a better team.
The only criticism I have of the players was the taking off the medals as soon as they were put on. Looked a bit childish to me.
Plenty of us think it was incorrect to put such a young player in that position. Especially, with that information that Grealish asked to take one etc.
But with the rub of the green will win the next Euro's in 2024 with Bellingham, Rice, Foden, James, Maguire, TAA, Chilwell (The brilliant Luke Shaw will be nearly 29 and 15 stone by then!) and a new 18 year old talent yet to be named.
Let's also hope by 2024 there is no hiding place for pond life. Constructive criticism and subjective views *are the heartbeat of a society but the cowardly hate has to stop and be eradicated.
* I have been guilty of retaliation on CL but I'm a work in progress.
The whole sickness and pressure thing is something I’d thrive on and would also prefer to be taking it down the Italian end to fcuk them up .
I think I say this because my addiction is gambling and I love the thrill of it and the sickness of winning or losing and have no fear of the losing .
So next penalty shootout we go for our players who have a gambling problem and they’d smash em all home for fun 🥴
Problem is that training wont ever be able to replicate live match conditions
But I hope to god that when he was in that huddle, he turned around to the five takers and asked them if they still felt confident enough to be amongst the first five or whether they wanted someone else to take their place, reminding them that there was no shame in not wanting to be amongst the first five.
Trouble is, even those players would have known that they'd have been taking a penalty regardless had it gone far enough so equally thought that they may as well have gotten the responsibility out the way, rather than letting the nerves eat at them and end up in an even worse state.
Of course, we'll never know the real truth as Southgate has rightfully protected them from it all.