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Adkins Out? - Match Thread
Comments
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I think you're correct on auto's but not the play-offs. I'm sure teams have made a run starting in Jan & made the play-offs/promotion.Dazzler21 said:
6 more seems fair. That could however be the difference in making play offs and not.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce1 -
So you would sack Adkins now on the basis that the automatic places have gone but would accept his replacement finishing 9th?BR7_addick said:
Well a new one should be aiming for top 6. But that wouldn’t be a condition of their appointment, I think even some of our more negative fans would lower their expectations now after this start. I guess whoever it might be could hold their head high if we finished top 9 if he came in today.clb74 said:
If we got rid of Adkins today.BR7_addick said:
Yeah and we could agree to disagree on that, but you understand my position. It is 13 points and a game more, so technical it’s 14 or 16 points behind when you consider how they are both playing. And 25/1 with the bookies.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I won't deny that promotion is looking very unlikely, but it's not that bad.......yet.BR7_addick said:
Here’s the issue for me personally.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
We should be competing for automatic spots, we’ve been backed, albeit too late for some, and we have a decent size squad, and a manager with a fairly good record of getting promotion.
I would side with the whole “give him more time argument” if we wasn’t already out of the automatic race.Unless you genuinely believe we are still in the race for an automatic spot, then we’d agree to disagree. Or you thought from the start of the season we shouldn’t be competing for an automatic spot, again we’d agree to disagree.
So in simple terms.
My expectation: competing for automatic promotion.
Outcome: after just 9 games we are out of the automatic promotion race.
That’s a sackable offence IMO.
13 points behind with 37 games remaining is hardly out of it.
Considering the poor start to the season, and with the squad being new.
What would be an acceptable finishing position for the incoming manager?
Whats the point of sacking Adkins now then? You might as well just say sack him if he doesn't deliver a top half finish?2 -
Adkins has to show he has got things under control, then there is no point in changing him. Two draws may have steadied the ship, now is the time to stop the excuses and do the business.2
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Yeah, the replacement would have to have top six form between now and the end of the season to finish 9th you’d suspect. And the new manager wouldn’t be responsible for the start, Adkins would hence why I want him gone.Cafc43v3r said:
So you would sack Adkins now on the basis that the automatic places have gone but would accept his replacement finishing 9th?BR7_addick said:
Well a new one should be aiming for top 6. But that wouldn’t be a condition of their appointment, I think even some of our more negative fans would lower their expectations now after this start. I guess whoever it might be could hold their head high if we finished top 9 if he came in today.clb74 said:
If we got rid of Adkins today.BR7_addick said:
Yeah and we could agree to disagree on that, but you understand my position. It is 13 points and a game more, so technical it’s 14 or 16 points behind when you consider how they are both playing. And 25/1 with the bookies.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I won't deny that promotion is looking very unlikely, but it's not that bad.......yet.BR7_addick said:
Here’s the issue for me personally.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
We should be competing for automatic spots, we’ve been backed, albeit too late for some, and we have a decent size squad, and a manager with a fairly good record of getting promotion.
I would side with the whole “give him more time argument” if we wasn’t already out of the automatic race.Unless you genuinely believe we are still in the race for an automatic spot, then we’d agree to disagree. Or you thought from the start of the season we shouldn’t be competing for an automatic spot, again we’d agree to disagree.
So in simple terms.
My expectation: competing for automatic promotion.
Outcome: after just 9 games we are out of the automatic promotion race.
That’s a sackable offence IMO.
13 points behind with 37 games remaining is hardly out of it.
Considering the poor start to the season, and with the squad being new.
What would be an acceptable finishing position for the incoming manager?
Whats the point of sacking Adkins now then? You might as well just say sack him if he doesn't deliver a top half finish?
The other point being I see things getting worse under Adkins.0 -
I can't see things getting worse. Complete squad overhaul. Things will click, the worry is that they're clicking too slowly and that for all our signings we don't have a dominant midfield with any permutation0
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It's not 13 points promotion though is it? We are 8 points off Rotherham for a Play Off place and the same number of games.BR7_addick said:
Yeah and we could agree to disagree on that, but you understand my position. It is 13 points and a game more, so technical it’s 14 or 16 points behind when you consider how they are both playing. And 25/1 with the bookies.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I won't deny that promotion is looking very unlikely, but it's not that bad.......yet.BR7_addick said:
Here’s the issue for me personally.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
We should be competing for automatic spots, we’ve been backed, albeit too late for some, and we have a decent size squad, and a manager with a fairly good record of getting promotion.
I would side with the whole “give him more time argument” if we wasn’t already out of the automatic race.Unless you genuinely believe we are still in the race for an automatic spot, then we’d agree to disagree. Or you thought from the start of the season we shouldn’t be competing for an automatic spot, again we’d agree to disagree.
So in simple terms.
My expectation: competing for automatic promotion.
Outcome: after just 9 games we are out of the automatic promotion race.
That’s a sackable offence IMO.
13 points behind with 37 games remaining is hardly out of it.
BetVictor are going 33/1 although some are only 11/1 for us to be promoted reflecting the difference in opinion of the firms' respective traders and liabilities. Alternatively, you could take a best price 3/1 on Wednesday going up who are 6 points above us and on a run themselves of 2 points from their last 4 games and who have only scored 7 goals all season.
After 9 games last season Blackpool had 7 points. At that point Sunderland had 18 points. Blackpool finished 3rd and 3 points clear of Sunderland so they made up 14 points on them. And Blackpool went up via the Play Offs.
Now did Blackpool sack Neil Critchley after 9 games in charge? No they didn't. And I'll bet their fans are extremely glad they didn't.
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Fair enough, but he has had 9 games already, and plenty of time to reassess his options, and we MUST see a return as a matter of urgency starting tomorrow, and continue for the next 3/4 games at least for the tide to turn in his favour , we just can't sit and hope it will all come out in the wash forever..Redhenry said:I honestly think we have good enough players for a promotion push. Adkins has to find the formation and players in squad to do that.0 -
Interesting point about Blackpool, but was it this toxic and and panicked (team selection) already? It’s a good point though.Addick Addict said:
It's not 13 points promotion though is it? We are 8 points off Rotherham for a Play Off place and the same number of games.BR7_addick said:
Yeah and we could agree to disagree on that, but you understand my position. It is 13 points and a game more, so technical it’s 14 or 16 points behind when you consider how they are both playing. And 25/1 with the bookies.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I won't deny that promotion is looking very unlikely, but it's not that bad.......yet.BR7_addick said:
Here’s the issue for me personally.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
We should be competing for automatic spots, we’ve been backed, albeit too late for some, and we have a decent size squad, and a manager with a fairly good record of getting promotion.
I would side with the whole “give him more time argument” if we wasn’t already out of the automatic race.Unless you genuinely believe we are still in the race for an automatic spot, then we’d agree to disagree. Or you thought from the start of the season we shouldn’t be competing for an automatic spot, again we’d agree to disagree.
So in simple terms.
My expectation: competing for automatic promotion.
Outcome: after just 9 games we are out of the automatic promotion race.
That’s a sackable offence IMO.
13 points behind with 37 games remaining is hardly out of it.
BetVictor are going 33/1 although some are only 11/1 for us to be promoted reflecting the difference in opinion of the firms' respective traders and liabilities. Alternatively, you could take a best price 3/1 on Wednesday going up who are 6 points above us and on a run themselves of 2 points from their last 4 games and who have only scored 7 goals all season.
After 9 games last season Blackpool had 7 points. At that point Sunderland had 18 points. Blackpool finished 3rd and 3 points clear of Sunderland so they made up 14 points on them. And Blackpool went up via the Play Offs.
Now did Blackpool sack Neil Critchley after 9 games in charge? No they didn't. And I'll bet their fans are extremely glad they didn't.
Youre also naming one comparative scenario, I don’t have the stats to hand but how many other clubs on as bad a start as us has gone on to do f*ck all?I’d love to be wrong and laughed at this time next may, will take all the flack I deserve, I just don’t see things improving, relatively speaking under Adkins.3 - Sponsored links:
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Tomorrow night's opponents a case in point. I'm sure in February Bolton were in the bottom few spots in League Two. Forget the play offs, they went straight up.Charlton_Road_James said:
I think you're correct on auto's but not the play-offs. I'm sure teams have made a run starting in Jan & made the play-offs/promotion.Dazzler21 said:
6 more seems fair. That could however be the difference in making play offs and not.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
I'm a bit of a fence sitter regarding our current plight but I feel it's fair to say absolutely anything is still possible this season with or without Adkins.1 -
And in that statement TS made it an incredibly difficult job for Adkins.CAFCTrev said:
Quite a turnaround from “We are going to blow it out of the division” in May.Davo55 said:Provided we aren't in the relegation spots too long I reckon Thomas will see this season as a period of consolidation, and then look to improve over time.
You never hear a Manager, no matter how many points his side is clear unless it is mathematically impossible for them not to, say that they are going to win the League. So why heap that sort of pressure before a ball is even kicked in anger? That was over enthusiasm from the owner who has enough stock to buy him time because he put his money in to save the Club. Adkins has no such luxury and is being measured by the owner's boast. It really didn't help.6 -
Fans are fickle and a win/decent performance followed by decent form and they will be ready to get on board again. It is the same at all clubs and the higher the expectations the less failure will be tolerated. It is important a manager appreciates and embraces it. Somebody with Adkins' experience needs to take it all on himself and appreciate he is being paid to sort it out sharpish. When he starts blaming something and everything, it will only go one way.1
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TS has funded a window that's been good in every regard except one, which is unfortunately the most important position on the field. Consequently, Adkins has been in a slightly difficult position of having a large squad to choose from but no obvious midfield combination. He's muddling through with Watson +1/2 atm (which WASN'T the plan but is honestly as good as we have) and it'll unfortunately have to wait until January to be properly addressed. Vennings, Henry, Dempsey and Santos can meanwhile continue to do good work in the reserves and hope to be part of that redressing. JFC being on the staff has meant we've not been able to overcommit to signings in the position either, which has been very unfortunate, as has Gilbey's long Covid that has left him rusty at best. It is a peculiar set of circumstances that leaves me sympathetic to Adkins.
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I appreciate that a lot of clubs don't turn things round. I made the same point about Oxford last season though. All I'm saying is that 9 games isn't enough to judge especially when our recruitment was completed so late.BR7_addick said:
Interesting point about Blackpool, but was it this toxic and and panicked (team selection) already? It’s a good point though.Addick Addict said:
It's not 13 points promotion though is it? We are 8 points off Rotherham for a Play Off place and the same number of games.BR7_addick said:
Yeah and we could agree to disagree on that, but you understand my position. It is 13 points and a game more, so technical it’s 14 or 16 points behind when you consider how they are both playing. And 25/1 with the bookies.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I won't deny that promotion is looking very unlikely, but it's not that bad.......yet.BR7_addick said:
Here’s the issue for me personally.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
We should be competing for automatic spots, we’ve been backed, albeit too late for some, and we have a decent size squad, and a manager with a fairly good record of getting promotion.
I would side with the whole “give him more time argument” if we wasn’t already out of the automatic race.Unless you genuinely believe we are still in the race for an automatic spot, then we’d agree to disagree. Or you thought from the start of the season we shouldn’t be competing for an automatic spot, again we’d agree to disagree.
So in simple terms.
My expectation: competing for automatic promotion.
Outcome: after just 9 games we are out of the automatic promotion race.
That’s a sackable offence IMO.
13 points behind with 37 games remaining is hardly out of it.
BetVictor are going 33/1 although some are only 11/1 for us to be promoted reflecting the difference in opinion of the firms' respective traders and liabilities. Alternatively, you could take a best price 3/1 on Wednesday going up who are 6 points above us and on a run themselves of 2 points from their last 4 games and who have only scored 7 goals all season.
After 9 games last season Blackpool had 7 points. At that point Sunderland had 18 points. Blackpool finished 3rd and 3 points clear of Sunderland so they made up 14 points on them. And Blackpool went up via the Play Offs.
Now did Blackpool sack Neil Critchley after 9 games in charge? No they didn't. And I'll bet their fans are extremely glad they didn't.
Youre also naming one comparative scenario, I don’t have the stats to hand but how many other clubs on as bad a start as us has gone on to do f*ck all?I’d love to be wrong and laughed at this time next may, will take all the flack I deserve, I just don’t see things improving, relatively speaking under Adkins.4 -
The recruitment did feel late but how late compared with others?Addick Addict said:
I appreciate that a lot of clubs don't turn things round. I made the same point about Oxford last season though. All I'm saying is that 9 games isn't enough to judge especially when our recruitment was completed so late.BR7_addick said:
Interesting point about Blackpool, but was it this toxic and and panicked (team selection) already? It’s a good point though.Addick Addict said:
It's not 13 points promotion though is it? We are 8 points off Rotherham for a Play Off place and the same number of games.BR7_addick said:
Yeah and we could agree to disagree on that, but you understand my position. It is 13 points and a game more, so technical it’s 14 or 16 points behind when you consider how they are both playing. And 25/1 with the bookies.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I won't deny that promotion is looking very unlikely, but it's not that bad.......yet.BR7_addick said:
Here’s the issue for me personally.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
We should be competing for automatic spots, we’ve been backed, albeit too late for some, and we have a decent size squad, and a manager with a fairly good record of getting promotion.
I would side with the whole “give him more time argument” if we wasn’t already out of the automatic race.Unless you genuinely believe we are still in the race for an automatic spot, then we’d agree to disagree. Or you thought from the start of the season we shouldn’t be competing for an automatic spot, again we’d agree to disagree.
So in simple terms.
My expectation: competing for automatic promotion.
Outcome: after just 9 games we are out of the automatic promotion race.
That’s a sackable offence IMO.
13 points behind with 37 games remaining is hardly out of it.
BetVictor are going 33/1 although some are only 11/1 for us to be promoted reflecting the difference in opinion of the firms' respective traders and liabilities. Alternatively, you could take a best price 3/1 on Wednesday going up who are 6 points above us and on a run themselves of 2 points from their last 4 games and who have only scored 7 goals all season.
After 9 games last season Blackpool had 7 points. At that point Sunderland had 18 points. Blackpool finished 3rd and 3 points clear of Sunderland so they made up 14 points on them. And Blackpool went up via the Play Offs.
Now did Blackpool sack Neil Critchley after 9 games in charge? No they didn't. And I'll bet their fans are extremely glad they didn't.
Youre also naming one comparative scenario, I don’t have the stats to hand but how many other clubs on as bad a start as us has gone on to do f*ck all?I’d love to be wrong and laughed at this time next may, will take all the flack I deserve, I just don’t see things improving, relatively speaking under Adkins.
I mentioned earlier I think he as the manager had enough to play with before the window shut to not have us performing so badly and not getting results.0 -
I'll add that usually I like to defend players but this season I think a fair few of them are brutally letting Adkins down. Those responsible have at least largely been identified and excluded, which also helps to focus our match day squad3
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Arsenal also started badly with a late transfer window and injured first teamers.
Now they've settled and got everyone back they're on 4 wins in a row.
Maybe it's worth waiting and seeing what Adkins would be like with Purrington, Gilbey etc. fully fit and ready to go.4 -
It is easier to turn it round if you have good players for the level. I think we do so it is reasonable to expect it to happen at some point. Our season depends on that not being delayed too long.1
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But apart from Bolton and Oxford and Blackpool lasts season who else has ever achieved anything after a bad start.......9goalswentpastperry said:
Tomorrow night's opponents a case in point. I'm sure in February Bolton were in the bottom few spots in League Two. Forget the play offs, they went straight up.Charlton_Road_James said:
I think you're correct on auto's but not the play-offs. I'm sure teams have made a run starting in Jan & made the play-offs/promotion.Dazzler21 said:
6 more seems fair. That could however be the difference in making play offs and not.Addick Addict said:
Again it's nine games. Our heaviest defeat was 2-0 to Wigan who are top. The rest have all been by the odd goal. I'm certainly not saying give him the season but we have to give him a chance to turn it around. And by that I would say at least another half a dozen games. Otherwise, as I keep saying, by the benchmark set by those who want him out, after every poor run of eight or nine games we'll be paying more compo and starting all over again. And then repeat.cabbles said:At the time of his appointment, on paper and with the managers available, I thought Adkins was a good choice. I appreciate many didn’t and may be being proved right. However, I seem to remember it being him or the Cowleys as the two most likely options. I’m not convinced on the Cowleys. I think it’s too far gone for NA to turn it around, which is a shame as there was a bit of promise when he took over and we’ve bought a lot of new players in over the summer, so I had some enthusiasm.
If he goes I’m 100% behind JJ in that I don’t know who else we could get and I think his affiliation and history with us will give us a bounce
I'm a bit of a fence sitter regarding our current plight but I feel it's fair to say absolutely anything is still possible this season with or without Adkins.
The gap from 1st to 6th is normally between 15 and 20 points at the end of the season. Promotion form, like we had under Adkins last season, from now on would see us comfortably in the play offs come the end of the season.
What was different between then and now? We have had no left back, no replacements for JFC, Millar, Aneke and Gilbey. That's changed, or is changing, now. All the problems haven't been in Nigle's gift but I agree that the excuses/reasons will run out soon.1 - Sponsored links:
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I think I'm very Adkins sceptic now after being pretty pro him, haven't gone for the full sack him now mode, but I'm willing to be convinced he can turn it round, as I think you look a bit of a basket case if you sack in the first 10/15 games especially off the end of last year, however wouldn't be upset if he went in late October if things are still as difficult as they are now.
I just don't know what the teams identity is still, which is why I'm the sceptic, is it direct, is it a counter attacking team, is it keeping the football and building.8 -
Well he'll have had 10. For me that's been my barometer.eastterrace6168 said:
Thing is it's like tomorrow never comes Dazzler, how many "win his next game's" is he going to need,, we need consistent games won not one now and then..appreciate he has to start somewhere, but ffs, how much leeway is he going to need before the penny drops in Thomass lap..Dazzler21 said:He needs to win the next game to have any chance of keeping his job I reckon.1 -
that's half the problem, the manager doesn't know either...Rothko said:I think I'm very Adkins sceptic now after being pretty pro him, haven't gone for the full sack him now mode, but I'm willing to be convinced he can turn it round, as I think you look a bit of a basket case if you sack in the first 10/15 games especially off the end of last year, however wouldn't be upset if he went in late October if things are still as difficult as they are now.
I just don't know what the teams identity is still, which is why I'm the sceptic, is it direct, is it a counter attacking team, is it keeping the football and building.0 -
Rothko said:I think I'm very Adkins sceptic now after being pretty pro him, haven't gone for the full sack him now mode, but I'm willing to be convinced he can turn it round, as I think you look a bit of a basket case if you sack in the first 10/15 games especially off the end of last year, however wouldn't be upset if he went in late October if things are still as difficult as they are now.
I just don't know what the teams identity is still, which is why I'm the sceptic, is it direct, is it a counter attacking team, is it keeping the football and building.
Pretty much how I see it and they said something similar on Charlton Live last night. Feels like this is the time to be building/ finishing the foundations of the strategy/ plan on and off the pitch and I don't really see anything from NA to suggest he's the man to take us forward for the next 5 or so years.
To be fair nothing does really off the pitch speak of any great coherent strategy/ masterplan but the football is the easiest thing to gauge as it's results are outlined every Saturday and Tuesday.0 -
This is just it! The last paragraph.Rothko said:I think I'm very Adkins sceptic now after being pretty pro him, haven't gone for the full sack him now mode, but I'm willing to be convinced he can turn it round, as I think you look a bit of a basket case if you sack in the first 10/15 games especially off the end of last year, however wouldn't be upset if he went in late October if things are still as difficult as they are now.
I just don't know what the teams identity is still, which is why I'm the sceptic, is it direct, is it a counter attacking team, is it keeping the football and building.
I don’t know what type of goals we will score. I accepted this after the Sheff wed game because I thought we’d be a team that builds from a solid defensive base, but we clearly not.0 -
And the other five?Addick Addict said:The Red Robin said:
In no particular order:Addick Addict said:
An expected reaction. Funny that though isn't it. All the time Ipswich were signing players left, right and centre posters on here were saying how they were going to run away with the League and that those players were the very targets we should have been going for. At the same time, when we've been manager less, Cook's name has come up on numerous occasions.Hal1x said:
Don't care about Ipswich comparison (they can sort out their own problems), I am concerned about the shitfest emanating from Mr Adkins direction, which is a problem we need to deal with.Addick Addict said:Presumably all those that think Adkins has had enough time to produce a team that is in the promotion shake up after nine games are totally mystified as to how Paul Cook still has a job at Ipswich - his record currently reads - 5 wins from 26 matches and just the one win in all comps this season from 11 games.
The point I was trying to make is that it takes time to bed a squad in especially when they come at various levels of fitness. Cook is finding that too and he has a very good managerial record and had longer to do so with their recruits.
People are very selective. They want to choose to ignore the run that we had under Adkins that almost took us into the Play Offs as if that doesn't count on his Charlton CV. We had fit players used to playing with us like Maatsen, Millar, JFC, Gilbey and Aneke on that run. He's had to replace them with no pre season to gel the side. Anyone notice the improvement in Gilbey when he was brought back by Adkins last season? Adkins also explained to those who want to listen why he's had to make so many changes from game to game.
The chances are now that Adkins will be gone soon enough which will please many. so here's one question for the managerial experts on here. Who is the Manager who is going to be prepared to come in and turn this round straightaway. Paul Cook?
The other aspect of the vitriol towards Adkins that I do find strange is how some are throwing his as they would call it, his "happy clappy" persona and how he can't be a strong Manager as a result. Ask DJ whether he thinks that Adkins is incapable of making difficult decisions? Ask DJ whether Adkins sat him down and explained what he needs to do to become a better player. Ask DJ whether Adkins threw him against the wall in doing so. Ask DJ whether he publicly slated him and others and blamed them for our poor results.
Almost every team goes through a bad run at some point in the season. Should they all be sacked? And how many games do we give the next one? Nine? That might mean we'll have half a dozen Managers this season.
John Coleman
Gareth Ainsworth
Ryan Lowe
Matt Taylor
Simon Weaver
Kenny Jackett
I don’t care if some of those teams are currently above us. It’s not being arrogant to say we’re a bigger pull than their current clubs if we offered them the job. All have recent success.
Kenny Jackett, who took over at Portsmouth in 2017 and in four seasons failed to take them up from this division?
Kenny Jackett, was sacked by Portsmouth for only winning one game in eight and who managed a Portsmouth side that finished below us last season?
Kenny Jackett who at Orient last season only won one of their last eight games last season and by the standards set by you and others he should have been sacked by them too.
Kenny Jackett who has a "recent success" of four wins and one defeat in nine matches this season.
This rather confirms just how short term failure and success is measured by some - eight or nine games.0 -
Cafc43v3r said:
I think it's right that Adkins is under pressure now. At the end of the day, unless we are told other wise, the buck stops with him. But I am not convinced that a) it won't improve and b) removing him now will fix the problems.MuttleyCAFC said:The question we need to ask is whether the possibility the mitigations for Adkins have some validity. I would say there are three main ones. The first we should discount because he signed up for it which is that he hasn't chosen the players. Also, we have some decent players so it isn't unreasonable things should be better. The second is the lateness of arrivals and relative fitness of players. We all know a settled side which is also fit is important. This could have some weight and explain the chopping and changing which has been an issue.
The final one is key and linked to the second. It is can he turn it round and quickly? If there are signs he can, we should stick with him. If you take the point we have been playing catch up, when is a reasonable time to have caught up? This is key to Adkins' future as a run like we have been on has to end and not be repeated. So he must be walking a tightrope now. He has to be. He has to start winning now.
I believe a good win and the confidence it will bring could have a major impact and Tuesday is where it probably needs to happen.
Some of the things I would like to know the answers to, before I go full Adkins out are:
1) Who decided Clare, Dobson and Morgan was good enough and then who decided they weren't.
2) Who decided who the back room staff are? Will they be prescribed to the next manager?
3) Do we play 4231/433 because Adkins is the manager or is Adkins the manager because he prefers that system?
4) Will removing Adkins make the players fitter?
In my opinion to be successful, at this level, the manager needs full control of transfers, team selection, tactics, back room staff selection etc etc if they are going to be fully responsible for the results.
Maybe he does need to go but if the next person is plugged into the same restrictions you'll get, generally, the same results.Good questions and some important points. I wanted Adkins to go but we’re at least seeing us create more chances and it’s become clear several players aren’t yet fit enough. Draws aren’t enough but I’m more hopeful he’ll turn it around than I was a week ago.On the point about control when did we last give a manager full control of transfers?
Bowyer’s signings had to be approved by Driesen and RD. He couldn’t stop Grant being sold either.
I don’t believe Powell wanted Alonso and Clarke.
From the CAST call with Gallen and Roddy assuming you believe them Adkins agrees (or not) to a signing Gallen and Roddy want and then TS has to sign it off. Gallen talked about needing the manager to want the player as they’re the one working with them every day.
Owners and DOF/chief scouts will always have a say. We’re adding Roddy to that. It’s four people who have to agree, the same as it was under Bowyer. I don’t think it’s restrictions that have led to NA struggling, I think it’s much more about mistakes in the window and fitness levels.
Hopefully he’ll soon prove it’s little to do with him being a football dinosaur or losing the dressing room, two things I’ve seen suggested more than once.
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I'm in fact going to list every unfortunate circumstance that has blighted our central midfield alone and left Adkins without a dominant spine to build around:
- JFC. On the payroll, return uncertain.
- Gilbey. Long Covid, came back rusty, unclear when he'll find his groove again.
- Watson's forced contract extension. We'd otherwise have someone who can run, although he's possibly playing better than expected (given the rightly low expectations)
- Dobson. Looking like a failed signing, although I've seen flashes that tell me he might get it together. Hasn't really happened in the league yet.
- Arter. A terrible white-elephant signing of the sort that was always obviously going to be a fucking fiasco but whose pedigree understandably blinded everyone involved, including most of our fans. Blind no longer thank god, but that doesn't solve the problem that he's on the payroll and taking up a squad space.
- Clare has been injured half the time.
- Morgan. Perhaps the biggest factor of all and the one Adkins shares the most culpability in. We backed the wrong horse, simple as that.
That is an awful lot of bad luck, I'd say. More than most managers have to deal with. Letting go of Pratley was a completely fair and even obvious call (quit your clamouring, he's gone), but what's happened since then has been...far from ideal.3 -
I'm surprised by this. I agree with it, but another loss tomorrow... Would be unacceptable imo.SELR_addicks said:Arsenal also started badly with a late transfer window and injured first teamers.
Now they've settled and got everyone back they're on 4 wins in a row.
Maybe it's worth waiting and seeing what Adkins would be like with Purrington, Gilbey etc. fully fit and ready to go.1 -
We know some players aren’t fit, are you really completely writing off Arter? Is it not possible for him to turn out to be better than Watson once he’s fully fit?Leuth said:I'm in fact going to list every unfortunate circumstance that has blighted our central midfield alone and left Adkins without a dominant spine to build around:
- JFC. On the payroll, return uncertain.
- Gilbey. Long Covid, came back rusty, unclear when he'll find his groove again.
- Watson's forced contract extension. We'd otherwise have someone who can run, although he's possibly playing better than expected (given the rightly low expectations)
- Dobson. Looking like a failed signing, although I've seen flashes that tell me he might get it together. Hasn't really happened in the league yet.
- Arter. A terrible white-elephant signing of the sort that was always obviously going to be a fucking fiasco but whose pedigree understandably blinded everyone involved, including most of our fans. Blind no longer thank god, but that doesn't solve the problem that he's on the payroll and taking up a squad space.
- Clare has been injured half the time.
- Morgan. Perhaps the biggest factor of all and the one Adkins shares the most culpability in. We backed the wrong horse, simple as that.
That is an awful lot of bad luck, I'd say. More than most managers have to deal with. Letting go of Pratley was a completely fair and even obvious call (quit your clamouring, he's gone), but what's happened since then has been...far from ideal.3
This discussion has been closed.
