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Formula 1 Thread
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Just rewatched the race. In all the excitement it seems this was pushed under the rug a bit; how, HOW, does the controlling body entrusted with enforcing the rules and regulations give a team who have transgressed a “offer”? I’m trying not to get worked up over it and it may just be that it was the wrong choice of words. But, seriously….how can you show you have control by saying ohhh you guuyyss. You did the dirty. Here’s an offer, you start behind Ocon, deal? It is so soft and weak. It should be “we are in control here, not you, you broke this rule, you start p3. End of story”.6
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What they said was we think you messed up but it’s in doubt. We can aske the stewards who will probably give you this penalty or let you off if your innocent. They could also hand out a worse penalty. We recommend you take the I. Race penalty but if you want annopportunity in race to prove your innocence, say so.0
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I suppose it’s a bit like a plea bargain - you can plead guilty and do the right thing - or we have to wake the stewards up and it could be a lot worse….1
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That is like a football ref saying I think you commiitted a foul outside the box but it was on or near the line the line. You can either give them a free kick outside the box or we will give it to VAR and you will possibly get a penalty against you. It allows the offender to to decide and further disadvantage the offended. That is why referees exist. Are we sure that Masi isn't an antipodean translation of Kettle.Alwaysneil said:What they said was we think you messed up but it’s in doubt. We can aske the stewards who will probably give you this penalty or let you off if your innocent. They could also hand out a worse penalty. We recommend you take the I. Race penalty but if you want annopportunity in race to prove your innocence, say so.2 -
Yea but also with the chance of getting a free kick yourself. The reason they offered it was because there was a decent chance it wasn’t a foul.Scratchingvalleycat said:
That is like a football ref saying I think you commiitted a foul outside the box but it was on or near the line the line. You can either give them a free kick outside the box or we will give it to VAR and you will possibly get a penalty against you. It allows the offender to to decide and further disadvantage the offended. That is why referees exist. Are we sure that Masi isn't an antipodean translation of Kettle.Alwaysneil said:What they said was we think you messed up but it’s in doubt. We can aske the stewards who will probably give you this penalty or let you off if your innocent. They could also hand out a worse penalty. We recommend you take the I. Race penalty but if you want annopportunity in race to prove your innocence, say so.1 -
billysboots said:I suppose it’s a bit like a plea bargain - you can plead guilty and do the right thing - or we have to wake the stewards up and it could be a lot worse….
This is how I saw it. A few very very odd radio messages throughout the race I thought.0 -
If such a situation arose (they both crash out because of Max) is there a chance that Verstappen given his many previous transgressions could then be docked points and therefore giving the title to Hamilton?billysboots said:Prediction for next week - Hamilton Has the quickest car and Verstappen takes him out during the race - becoming World Champion.1 -
“ If such a situation arose (they both crash out because of Max) is there a chance that Verstappen given his many previous transgressions could then be docked points and therefore giving the title to Hamilton?”Short answer is yes it’s possible. Not so much a loss of points but exclusion from championship. Precedent is ‘97 when Schumacher hit Villeneuve in last race of season. Schumacher was ahead in points but winner of last race would take the championship.
FIA decided Schumacher deliberately drove into Villeneuve and disqualified him completely from the championship (stripped of all points).6 -
NorthStandDan said:“ If such a situation arose (they both crash out because of Max) is there a chance that Verstappen given his many previous transgressions could then be docked points and therefore giving the title to Hamilton?”Short answer is yes it’s possible. Not so much a loss of points but exclusion from championship. Precedent is ‘97 when Schumacher hit Villeneuve in last race of season. Schumacher was ahead in points but winner of last race would take the championship.
FIA decided Schumacher deliberately drove into Villeneuve and disqualified him completely from the championship (stripped of all points).
This is exactly what I want to avoid. The title should be settled on the track , not in the stewards office or at the CAS.
I do expect fireworks though next Sunday as much as I'd like a clean fight.1 -
As things stand there is zero chance that Red Bull don't attempt to just take Hamilton out. I think they'll try to be smarter than just letting Max run them both off and will probably try to engineer it more subtly but it WILL happen unless the FIA makes it absolutely clear that there will be serious consequences.3
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Did you watch the race, have you watched much motor racing in the past? They knew it was a foul but didnt want to give Max a time penalty since it would immediately upset their chance of a blockbuster money earner in Abu. Had he had to come into the pits to serve a time penalty at that point he would probably have finished fifth, since the field were again bunched up . I have never seen stewarding or race control decisions abrogated in such a way in 55 years of watching and participating. Horner at least got that right.Alwaysneil said:
Yea but also with the chance of getting a free kick yourself. The reason they offered it was because there was a decent chance it wasn’t a foul.Scratchingvalleycat said:
That is like a football ref saying I think you commiitted a foul outside the box but it was on or near the line the line. You can either give them a free kick outside the box or we will give it to VAR and you will possibly get a penalty against you. It allows the offender to to decide and further disadvantage the offended. That is why referees exist. Are we sure that Masi isn't an antipodean translation of Kettle.Alwaysneil said:What they said was we think you messed up but it’s in doubt. We can aske the stewards who will probably give you this penalty or let you off if your innocent. They could also hand out a worse penalty. We recommend you take the I. Race penalty but if you want annopportunity in race to prove your innocence, say so.1 -
Bottas needs to take one for the team Sunday. First corner, racing incident. I'm Red Bull won't mind when its two drivers racing hard for position.
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“LeT tHeM rAcE!”charltonkeston said:Bottas needs to take one for the team Sunday. First corner, racing incident. I'm Red Bull won't mind when its two drivers racing hard for position.
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What Verstappen is doing is not really different to Senna or Schumacher. Both great drivers but they were allowed to get away with murder and FIA needs to accept this and really get on top of its judgement for races. When refereeing anything, the only consideration should be the act and the appropriate punishment but F1 allows other consideration to come to play. Hamilton has had to take avoiding action too many times in recent races. I'm sure Verstappen is a future World champion and it would be a shame if his first was a tainted one.
I think Hamilton said himself that he at 25 would not be in the position he is. He showed his class over De Resta who couldn't understand why he just didn't pass Max when he was slowing down. Apart from talent, it shows why he isn't fit to wipe Hamilton's arse in every aspect. Hamilton's defensive driving has been incredible and Verstappen can't stop him even with the get out of jail free cards F1 have given him. Hamilton knows Mercedes have made a leap and that he needs to be careful to allow the car advantage to tell. Verstappen knows it too and that is why he is driving like he is. You wont see him doing what he does to Bottas.8 -
As much as I want Lewis to win...I do hope this doesn't happen...Be nice just to have a champion decided with no incidents whatsoever.charltonkeston said:Bottas needs to take one for the team Sunday. First corner, racing incident. I'm Red Bull won't mind when its two drivers racing hard for position.2 -
Agree but that hope frankly has gone now by Max driving like a dick for the best part of 2 months.cafcpolo said:
As much as I want Lewis to win...I do hope this doesn't happen...Be nice just to have a champion decided with no incidents whatsoever.charltonkeston said:Bottas needs to take one for the team Sunday. First corner, racing incident. I'm Red Bull won't mind when its two drivers racing hard for position.
So frankly I would like nothing more than Bottas to play him at his game.Come on Merc - sure we can get a nice brown envelope addressed to Mr V Bottas drawn up.0 -
Schumacher didn't get away with it in 1997!MuttleyCAFC said:What Verstappen is doing is not really different to Senna or Schumacher. Both great drivers but they were allowed to get away with murder and FIA needs to accept this and really get on top of its judgement for races. When refereeing anything, the only consideration should be the act and the appropriate punishment but F1 allows other consideration to come to play. Hamilton has had to take avoiding action too many times in recent races. I'm sure Verstappen is a future World champion and it would be a shame if his first was a tainted one.
I think Hamilton said himself that he at 25 would not be in the position he is. He showed his class over De Resta who couldn't understand why he just didn't pass Max when he was slowing down. Apart from talent, it shows why he isn't fit to wipe Hamilton's arse in every aspect. Hamilton's defensive driving has been incredible and Verstappen can't stop him even with the get out of jail free cards F1 have given him. Hamilton knows Mercedes have made a leap and that he needs to be careful to allow the car advantage to tell. Verstappen knows it too and that is why he is driving like he is. You wont see him doing what he does to Bottas.0 -
I think Hamilton has worked that out he needs to stay clear.0
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No he didn't but he did when he took Hill out.bobmunro said:
Schumacher didn't get away with it in 1997!MuttleyCAFC said:What Verstappen is doing is not really different to Senna or Schumacher. Both great drivers but they were allowed to get away with murder and FIA needs to accept this and really get on top of its judgement for races. When refereeing anything, the only consideration should be the act and the appropriate punishment but F1 allows other consideration to come to play. Hamilton has had to take avoiding action too many times in recent races. I'm sure Verstappen is a future World champion and it would be a shame if his first was a tainted one.
I think Hamilton said himself that he at 25 would not be in the position he is. He showed his class over De Resta who couldn't understand why he just didn't pass Max when he was slowing down. Apart from talent, it shows why he isn't fit to wipe Hamilton's arse in every aspect. Hamilton's defensive driving has been incredible and Verstappen can't stop him even with the get out of jail free cards F1 have given him. Hamilton knows Mercedes have made a leap and that he needs to be careful to allow the car advantage to tell. Verstappen knows it too and that is why he is driving like he is. You wont see him doing what he does to Bottas.7 -
Unfortunately Perez will be waiting in the wings for this to happen. If Mercedes’ pull the move first and nothing happens, Red Bull will see it as fair game for Perez to do the same.charltonkeston said:Bottas needs to take one for the team Sunday. First corner, racing incident. I'm Red Bull won't mind when its two drivers racing hard for position.I want Hamilton to win but it would be quite funny after everything that’s happened if him and Max come together and the FIA disqualify both drivers from the championship leaving Bottas to win 😂1 - Sponsored links:
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I think there was a decent chance with no red flag that Bottas would have come second. Verstappen lucked by getting a free pit stop and therein lies the problem for Red Bull with Mercedes ending the season with the best car.0
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Max is getting rattled: tantrums on the radio and then not acknowledging the winner of the race on the podium. He knows he was guilty of slapping on the brakes and that Hamilton is a better driver.5
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He was never going to acknowledge Hamilton, that ship sailed a long time ago. I notice that he did shake Bottas' hand when they got out of their cars though.Solidgone said:Max is getting rattled: tantrums on the radio and then not acknowledging the winner of the race on the podium. He knows he was guilty of slapping on the brakes and that Hamilton is a better driver.0 -
What is an interesting development is if Hamilton is on the fastest lap it becomes a risk for Verstappen to take him out!5
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Haha! Unfortunately not, because you have to finish in the points for the fastest lap to earn an extra point.MuttleyCAFC said:What is an interesting development is if Hamilton is on the fastest lap it becomes a risk for Verstappen to take him out!1 -
There must be a chance that Verstappen 's gearbox won't hold out - particularly with Hamilton hitting him on the opposite side and the number of restarts on Sunday putting extra strain on his drive shafts.1
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Lewis had the new engine in Brazil and didn't use in Qatar - anyone know if he used it in Saudi? If not then this week will be only the second outing for it.SoundAsa£ said:
It’s certainly a possibility.Addickted said:There must be a chance that Verstappen 's gearbox won't hold out - particularly with Hamilton hitting him on the opposite side and the number of restarts on Sunday putting extra strain on his drive shafts.0 -
it would be great if another brit took out Verstappen. imagine Lando making a mistake at the first corner and wiping Max out accidentally on purpose. Do it for your country Lando
dont fuck with the brits Max3 -
More likely that will be Russell's job. Part of his new Merc contract.Swisdom said:it would be great if another brit took out Verstappen. imagine Lando making a mistake at the first corner and wiping Max out accidentally on purpose. Do it for your country Lando
dont fuck with the brits Max2
