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Palace fans wetting themselves over their FA Cup draw vs Millwall
Comments
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SporadicAddick said:
Is that why we wear red? Also, our biggest crowds and most successful league seasons coincided with Stalin's purges. I'm wondering now if having having CSKA Moscow as my second club is entirely coincidental.seth plum said:Millwall were started by well off factory workers, partially subsidised by the bosses and supported by a rich pub landlord.
Fecking posh boy Tories.
Charlton we’re founded by scrawny scruffy kids without a pot to piss in having a kick about in London’s meanest streets, where their only senior help came from the local community and a fish and chip shop owner spotting the ribs showing through the players shirts and wanting to feed them up.
No surprise Charlton were founded in 1905, the year of the first Russian Revolution.
I've often wondered why I considered calling our first son Vladimir and our second Ilyich - you may have hit on something there.
1 -
I always thought Robert Lee was a lazy bastard.Addickted said:Seth will confirm a lot of the turnstiles weren't operational for those games.5 -
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many times1 -
Anyway. back to those bed wetting pyjama wearing Surrey wannabe Sarf Lundeners...4
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As is "Rampant Lion". The correct term is, of course, Lion Rampant.MillwallFan said:
Been a professional club playing in SE London longer than Charlton have 😉Henry Irving said:
Milwal are not a South London club.The Red Robin said:
Exactly. Millwall are a South London club. Palace are not.seth plum said:Both clubs are chite miserable entities, but there is a certain amount of authenticity about Millwall whereas Crystal Palace are a plastic concocted confection of crap.
Formed by Scots, they play in Scottish colours and have a Scottish badge. And Millwall is NORTH of the river
oh, the rampant lion doesn’t come from the Scottish connections. That’s a myth.2 -
Don’t think it’s been mentioned and this is just a wild guess by me but wouldn’t a game played midweek attract a much smaller crowd than a Saturday match due it being played in daylight (no floodlights) and the men being at work and the kids being in school ?3
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letthegoodtimesroll said:Don’t think it’s been mentioned and this is just a wild guess by me but wouldn’t a game played midweek attract a much smaller crowd than a Saturday match due it being played in daylight (no floodlights) and the men being at work and the kids being in school ?
Very probable.
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That average gate of 40,000+ in 1948/49.
I remember reading some years back that we were one of only 16 FL clubs that had achieved that feat.
Not sure what the current number is?1 -
Worth remembering that that 75,031 attendance was just one of three sell out games to settle that tie. The total attendance of 201,343 for that fixture was another record. I don't think it's been beaten since. If it hasn't now, I don't suppose it ever will be.5
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I remember trying to explain the West Ham rivalry to my grandad. He’d stopped going to watch live football in the 60’s so missed most of the tribal shit as it evolved. He just couldn’t understand the concept of fans from different clubs being rivals and hating each other. He thought it was daft. He was probably right.bobmunro said:MillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
My wife's dad was a Millwall fan, his dad a Charlton fan - they lived in New Cross/Deptford and used to go to The Den one week and The Valley the next. So I agree, tribalism wasn't as widespread as now.12 -
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Indeed - and I overlooked that - incredible numbers - and also so sad - what Charlton could have been - my dear Dad (sadly passed away 2017) first got took to The Valley in 1946 - he was a boy in mega crowds - but found himself watching his team go from 50,000 plus, to less than 4,000 early 80’s - I really cannot comprehend how fans like my Dad and his contemporaries could cope with such a massive declineStig said:Worth remembering that that 75,031 attendance was just one of three sell out games to settle that tie. The total attendance of 201,343 for that fixture was another record. I don't think it's been beaten since. If it hasn't now, I don't suppose it ever will be.7 -
We was in Division three south that season (two divisions below you). Would regularly get 25k+ even against teams like Torquay and Clapton. Ours would fluctuate a bit as well. a few in the teens. And the odd random low crowd. But mostly over 20k. Got over 30k on five different occasions. Biggest gate of the season was v Swindon, 38500. Biggest cup attendance was 38100 v Man City.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many times0 -
Wow. What a come downLordflashheart said:
Indeed - and I overlooked that - incredible numbers - and also so sad - what Charlton could have been - my dear Dad (sadly passed away 2017) first got took to The Valley in 1946 - he was a boy in mega crowds - but found himself watching his team go from 50,000 plus, to less than 4,000 early 80’s - I really cannot comprehend how fans like my Dad and his contemporaries could cope with such a massive declineStig said:Worth remembering that that 75,031 attendance was just one of three sell out games to settle that tie. The total attendance of 201,343 for that fixture was another record. I don't think it's been beaten since. If it hasn't now, I don't suppose it ever will be.0 -
The following season, 38/39, was a golden time for us. In division two this time we got well over 30k on 13 different occasions, including 38500 v Grimsby in the cup! Then Hitler came along and ruined the party and it’s been downhill every since 😢MillwallFan said:
We was in Division three south that season (two divisions below you). Would regularly get 25k+ even against teams like Torquay and Clapton. Ours would fluctuate a bit as well. a few in the teens. And the odd random low crowd. But mostly over 20k. Got over 30k on five different occasions. Biggest gate of the season was v Swindon, 38500. Biggest cup attendance was 38100 v Man City.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many times0 -
Yeah, we’ve gone well off track on this one. 😆soapy_jones said:Anyway. back to those bed wetting pyjama wearing Surrey wannabe Sarf Lundeners...2 -
Just an aside after my boy got released from Charlton, a Millwall coach, who ended up being a good mate, asked if i would mind if Millwall had a look. Through gritted teeth i said yes.
My boy had been in the same "mob" as Woodyard, McGinty, who were both moved on and up to the academy.
So we end up at Coopers Cope, playing Palace, (in Millwall kit agggh!!).
So having been through the Charlton system he is use to win the ball,ball on the floor, look up , pass, move!
Playing for Palace is Bradley Goldberg, who my boy is told "touch tight and man mark"
The game is even stevens , until Goldberg with minimal contact goes to ground about 1 yard outside the box, Goldberg Sr pulls himself up to his full 5'4" and jumps about and yes penalty given.
Goldberg picks up the ball to claim the penalty kick, only too miss!
At the end of the game we are having tea in the canteen when one of the Palace Dads comes over gives Goldberg Sr "the what for" Goldberg beats a hasty retreat to his limo.
Once gone everybody from Palace launch in to him.
My lad ended up at Fisher Ath, a bit of a feeder club to Millwall but ended up having the best 3yrs football a boy could have, and played alongside Odubajo (QPR) Raymond (Bromley) and a couple of others that made pro
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Never thought it has been tribal in spannerland.bobmunro said:MillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
My wife's dad was a Millwall fan, his dad a Charlton fan - they lived in New Cross/Deptford and used to go to The Den one week and The Valley the next. So I agree, tribalism wasn't as widespread as now.0 -
Just worked out our average attendance for the 38/39 season, it was 27,875. Yours you say was 25,617. So ours was a couple of thousand higher than yours and that’s you playing in division 1 and us playing in division 2.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many timesThe season before our average attendance was 23,500, you say yours were 28,336. But that’s you playing in the top flight and us playing in Division Three South against the likes of Torquay, Aldershot, Mansfield etc.
The pattern continues after the war. Your averages were mostly higher than ours, but not massively, when you bare in mind we was always a league or two below you. Some of our third tier attendances were phenomenal. 48/49 season we would regularly get crowds of 25/30k plus and even got 45,600 v Notts County in a league game at The Den that season.
So if you was a BIG club back then- on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etc, then we weren’t far behind you. Not in terms of support anyway. Bearing in mind the levels we was playing at.Similar to you our decline seemed to start in the early 50’s.0 -
@MillwallFan, you win.
We'll all be supporting you, "C'mon you......." F*** it, I could not finish that bit off.1 -
Decline for us both … and yet, even though they are now top flight … the team from Surrey doesn’t come close, and never will.MillwallFan said:
Just worked out our average attendance for the 38/39 season, it was 27,875. Yours you say was 25,617. So ours was a couple of thousand higher than yours and that’s you playing in division 1 and us playing in division 2.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many timesThe season before our average attendance was 23,500, you say yours were 28,336. But that’s you playing in the top flight and us playing in Division Three South against the likes of Torquay, Aldershot, Mansfield etc.
The pattern continues after the war. Your averages were mostly higher than ours, but not massively, when you bare in mind we was always a league or two below you. Some of our third tier attendances were phenomenal. 48/49 season we would regularly get crowds of 25/30k plus and even got 45,600 v Notts County in a league game at The Den that season.
So if you was a BIG club back then- on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etc, then we weren’t far behind you. Not in terms of support anyway. Bearing in mind the levels we was playing at.Similar to you our decline seemed to start in the early 50’s.This thread mentions similar experiences by others, but my dad went to the Den occasionally when we were away. Amazing that so many did in those days. Not having to get a ticket beforehand certainly helped.1 -
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Just don’t get all the Millwall love on here, it’s quite disturbingElfsborgAddick said:@MillwallFan, you win.
We'll all be supporting you, "C'mon you......." F*** it, I could not finish that bit off.5 -
I remember my Grandad telling me about the Den getting bombed, he had worked at the ground before the war. Peckham in particular was mentioned as being devastated by V2's late on in the war.MillwallFan said:
That’s brutal.MrLargo said:You lost momentum? We finished 2nd, 4th and 3rd in Division 1 in the three seasons preceding World War 2. Fair to say that Hitler cost us at least one league title.We was the 11th best supported club in the country in 1939 and one of the wealthiest, despite being in the second division. We was signing a couple of internationals and was on the verge of promotion to the top flight, when war broke out, according to my grandad it was nailed on, god rest his soul.During the blitz our ground got bombed and a week later a fire broke out in the main stand and it completely burnt it to the ground.SE London and the docks suffered disproportionately badly during the war. I read somewhere that Bermondsey was the most bombed part of London during the blitz.Can you imagine if WW2 never happened? It could well be that Charlton and Millwall would have ended up the Spurs/Arsenal of today, and those two could’ve been flipping between the championship and L1.Slidding doors moments in history.0 -
Ducktapeshoerepairs said:
Just don’t get all the Millwall love on here, it’s quite disturbingElfsborgAddick said:@MillwallFan, you win.
We'll all be supporting you, "C'mon you......." F*** it, I could not finish that bit off.
Indeed. It's like sucking up to the school bully so he focuses on the other nerdy kid for a few days.6 -
Hmmmm - but I provided (WW2 aside) season by season over 50k crowds at The Valley plus averages per season from late 30’s up until we lost our top flight status in the 50’s - please can you show comparisons for Millwall season by season for the same seasons I postedMillwallFan said:
Just worked out our average attendance for the 38/39 season, it was 27,875. Yours you say was 25,617. So ours was a couple of thousand higher than yours and that’s you playing in division 1 and us playing in division 2.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many timesThe season before our average attendance was 23,500, you say yours were 28,336. But that’s you playing in the top flight and us playing in Division Three South against the likes of Torquay, Aldershot, Mansfield etc.
The pattern continues after the war. Your averages were mostly higher than ours, but not massively, when you bare in mind we was always a league or two below you. Some of our third tier attendances were phenomenal. 48/49 season we would regularly get crowds of 25/30k plus and even got 45,600 v Notts County in a league game at The Den that season.
So if you was a BIG club back then- on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etc, then we weren’t far behind you. Not in terms of support anyway. Bearing in mind the levels we was playing at.Similar to you our decline seemed to start in the early 50’s.
Asking for a mate 🤔1 -
Yup - I used to talk to my ex girlfriends Mum about the war, she lived with her husband in Rotherhithe.TEL said:
I remember my Grandad telling me about the Den getting bombed, he had worked at the ground before the war. Peckham in particular was mentioned as being devastated by V2's late on in the war.MillwallFan said:
That’s brutal.MrLargo said:You lost momentum? We finished 2nd, 4th and 3rd in Division 1 in the three seasons preceding World War 2. Fair to say that Hitler cost us at least one league title.We was the 11th best supported club in the country in 1939 and one of the wealthiest, despite being in the second division. We was signing a couple of internationals and was on the verge of promotion to the top flight, when war broke out, according to my grandad it was nailed on, god rest his soul.During the blitz our ground got bombed and a week later a fire broke out in the main stand and it completely burnt it to the ground.SE London and the docks suffered disproportionately badly during the war. I read somewhere that Bermondsey was the most bombed part of London during the blitz.Can you imagine if WW2 never happened? It could well be that Charlton and Millwall would have ended up the Spurs/Arsenal of today, and those two could’ve been flipping between the championship and L1.Slidding doors moments in history.
She told me that she was once on her way to her local shops when a V2 came down and basically obliterated them when she was a couple of hundred yards away.
"What did you do?" I asked her.
"Oh, it was a right palaver," she replied, "I had to walk a good couple of miles to some other shops to get Bill (her husband) his dinner."
Can we even imagine that? These days that would freak us out to an unbelievable degree but back then this tiny Cockney, about five foot tall and seven stone wringing wet, just got on with her day and went home and cooked dinner!2 -
I think I may have comrade Bobovic. Red Army, Red Army...bobmunro said:SporadicAddick said:
Is that why we wear red? Also, our biggest crowds and most successful league seasons coincided with Stalin's purges. I'm wondering now if having having CSKA Moscow as my second club is entirely coincidental.seth plum said:Millwall were started by well off factory workers, partially subsidised by the bosses and supported by a rich pub landlord.
Fecking posh boy Tories.
Charlton we’re founded by scrawny scruffy kids without a pot to piss in having a kick about in London’s meanest streets, where their only senior help came from the local community and a fish and chip shop owner spotting the ribs showing through the players shirts and wanting to feed them up.
No surprise Charlton were founded in 1905, the year of the first Russian Revolution.
I've often wondered why I considered calling our first son Vladimir and our second Ilyich - you may have hit on something there.1 -
Could only find our average attendances dating back to the 60’s so the ones I posted up here I had to work out myself. Don’t fancy going through another ten or more tbh, not on a Saturday morning 😆Lordflashheart said:
Hmmmm - but I provided (WW2 aside) season by season over 50k crowds at The Valley plus averages per season from late 30’s up until we lost our top flight status in the 50’s - please can you show comparisons for Millwall season by season for the same seasons I postedMillwallFan said:
Just worked out our average attendance for the 38/39 season, it was 27,875. Yours you say was 25,617. So ours was a couple of thousand higher than yours and that’s you playing in division 1 and us playing in division 2.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many timesThe season before our average attendance was 23,500, you say yours were 28,336. But that’s you playing in the top flight and us playing in Division Three South against the likes of Torquay, Aldershot, Mansfield etc.
The pattern continues after the war. Your averages were mostly higher than ours, but not massively, when you bare in mind we was always a league or two below you. Some of our third tier attendances were phenomenal. 48/49 season we would regularly get crowds of 25/30k plus and even got 45,600 v Notts County in a league game at The Den that season.
So if you was a BIG club back then- on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etc, then we weren’t far behind you. Not in terms of support anyway. Bearing in mind the levels we was playing at.Similar to you our decline seemed to start in the early 50’s.
Asking for a mate 🤔
admit it though, you was quite surprised by those figures weren’t you? 😉
you see us as little old Millwall, but if you take away the day trippers who turned up for you during your PL days (and the complementaries you give out now) and the ones who turn up for us for our big days out at Wembley, our hardcore support, the ‘bare bones’ support as I like to call it, isn’t too dissimilar. You’re probably slightly bigger than us, but there’s not a lot in it.Thing is, most of our lot don’t actually care if we’re seen as a small club. I think they actually revel in the fact that we’re a small club, who punch above our weight. Biggest small club in the world and all that. They like being the underdog.Anyway, good little chat about the history of our clubs, back to the subject… f**k palace!2 -
MillwallFan said:
Could only find our average attendances dating back to the 60’s so the ones I posted up here I had to work out myself. Don’t fancy going through another ten or more tbh, not on a Saturday morning 😆Lordflashheart said:
Hmmmm - but I provided (WW2 aside) season by season over 50k crowds at The Valley plus averages per season from late 30’s up until we lost our top flight status in the 50’s - please can you show comparisons for Millwall season by season for the same seasons I postedMillwallFan said:
Just worked out our average attendance for the 38/39 season, it was 27,875. Yours you say was 25,617. So ours was a couple of thousand higher than yours and that’s you playing in division 1 and us playing in division 2.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many timesThe season before our average attendance was 23,500, you say yours were 28,336. But that’s you playing in the top flight and us playing in Division Three South against the likes of Torquay, Aldershot, Mansfield etc.
The pattern continues after the war. Your averages were mostly higher than ours, but not massively, when you bare in mind we was always a league or two below you. Some of our third tier attendances were phenomenal. 48/49 season we would regularly get crowds of 25/30k plus and even got 45,600 v Notts County in a league game at The Den that season.
So if you was a BIG club back then- on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etc, then we weren’t far behind you. Not in terms of support anyway. Bearing in mind the levels we was playing at.Similar to you our decline seemed to start in the early 50’s.
Asking for a mate 🤔
admit it though, you was quite surprised by those figures weren’t you? 😉
you see us as little old Millwall, but if take away the day trippers who turned up for you during your PL days (and the complementaries you give out now) and the ones who turn up for us for our big days out at Wembley, our hardcore support, the ‘bare bones’ support as I like to call it, isn’t too dissimilar. You’re probably slightly bigger than us, but there’s not a lot in it.Thing is, most of our lot don’t actually care if we’re seen as a small club. I think they actually revel in the fact that we’re a small club, who punch above our weight. Biggest small club in the world and all that. They like being the underdog.Anyway, good little chat about the history of our clubs, back to the subject… f**k palace!
and millwall
3 -
i don't think the second world war impacted any club as much as us - we had gone from 3rd division to runners up in the top division between 37 and 39 and quite possibly would have gone on to win the league had the war not broke out - huge crowds were filling the the massive ground and it probably would have been redeveloped and we truly may have become one of the established big London clubs but he ho - the likes of palace and west ham were lower division irrelevances back then and didn't really do anything til the 60@s and 70's in palace's case just as we were in a slump.MillwallFan said:
The following season, 38/39, was a golden time for us. In division two this time we got well over 30k on 13 different occasions, including 38500 v Grimsby in the cup! Then Hitler came along and ruined the party and it’s been downhill every since 😢MillwallFan said:
We was in Division three south that season (two divisions below you). Would regularly get 25k+ even against teams like Torquay and Clapton. Ours would fluctuate a bit as well. a few in the teens. And the odd random low crowd. But mostly over 20k. Got over 30k on five different occasions. Biggest gate of the season was v Swindon, 38500. Biggest cup attendance was 38100 v Man City.Lordflashheart said:
SO do you have comparable stats for Millwall over the same period (I don’t) - we were a BIG club back then - on par with Man U, Arsenal, Spurs etc etcMillwallFan said:
Sort of proves my point, comparing your averages to biggest gates. Big fluctuations.Lordflashheart said:Ok - this is NOT exhaustive, and I have had a fair few pints of Guinness - I start 36/37 season
68,160 vs Arsenal
Average 31,086
37/38
55,078 vs Arsenal
51,125 vs Chelsea
75,031 vs Villa
Average 28,336
38/39
51,479 vs Arsenal
Average 25,617
45/46 (I have skipped war years)
50,000 vs Derby (suspiciously ‘clean’ number !!)
(strangely only 38,450 vs Arsenal)
Average 28,991
46/47
57,983 vs Arsenal
Average 32,401
47/48
60,323 vs Arsenal
58,866 vs Chelsea
Average 36,248
48/49
51,517 vs Arsenal
56,294 vs Birmingham
55,291 vs Man U
56,711 vs Newcastle
61,475 vs Pompey
Average 40,216
49/50
51,615 vs Arsenal
Average 34,567
50/51
63,539 vs Arsenal
61,480 vs Spurs
Average 29,293
51/52
57,031 vs Arsenal
Average 27,609
52/53
66,555 vs Arsenal
Average 25,298
53/54
60,259 vs Arsenal
56,664 vs Blackpool
Average 28,803
And after that ……. the decline began 😢
And before @MillwallFan comes back with how many Arsenal games are in that list, Millwall’s record attendance is 48,762, so not over 50,000, which Charlton - as we can see - have eclipsed many times
Thanking youMy theory is there wasn’t many other forms of entertainment back then. People didn’t even have tv’s in their homes. So if there was a big cup game or local Derby, people from all over would attend, regardless of whether they was Charlton fans or not. If the ground holds the numbers , which yours did, people would come.Football wasn’t so tribal then. Take my old grandad, he was fundamentally Millwall, but he just loved football and would go and watch it anywhere. If there was a big cup game somewhere else in London he would go and watch it. He used to go the valley, Stamford bridge, the Orient, all over. And of course you could just turn up and pay on the gate then.
Yes big ground - but we (almost) filled it many many times3 -
1935 finished 1st div 3s
1936 finished 2nd div 2
1937 finished 2nd div 1
1938 finished 4th div 1
1939 finished 3rd div 10
