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Changes To The Highway Code

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  • If I was a cyclist I would be mindful of any vehicle on the road, and most definitely yield to a lorry.
    I do in a car, so why not if on a bicycle. Common sense tells you to keep out of their way, surely?
  • Gribbo said:

    I was witness to a 32t fixed bed muck-away lorry go over a cyclist on the Goldhawk Road a few years ago. They were both at the lights with the woman on the bike holding onto the railings and the lorry indicating to turn left. As the lights turned green, they both took off and the cyclist ended up under the lorry.

    There was no legal case to answer as, I presume, the witnesses gave the same account as what I did, re’ the lorry indicating to turn left, but I was contacted shortly after moving to France by an ambulance chasing law firm who said the lady had suffered “life changing injuries” and they were starting a civil case against the company that owned the lorry (Sure it was Tarmac).

    My view is that it was completely the cyclist at fault, and it should be down to her to look for the signs that the bigger vehicle might be turning across her path. As I understand it now though, the lorry driver would need to give way to any cyclists who are on his inside (in his blind spot)? If that is the case, I think its going to lead to a lot more accidents with people getting injured and killed.

    I’ve always tried to let pedestrians cross if I’m turning into a road, but only if the road I’m on allows it


    You was starring out the window of Cooke’s waiting for that double double to settle, weren’t ya?
  • ROTW said:
    If I was a cyclist I would be mindful of any vehicle on the road, and most definitely yield to a lorry.
    I do in a car, so why not if on a bicycle. Common sense tells you to keep out of their way, surely?
    Indeed, but that should not exonerate the lorry driver from all blame should there be an accident in my view.
  • All seems very sensible to me.
  • Before my eyes I see youths with hoodies up listening on their headphones thoughts and not a care in the world without looking to see if cars are turning left behind them.
    Happens all the time.
    Agreed. One kid pulled across the front of me a couple of weeks ago. He hit my front nearside wing car (I didn't hit him!!!) And he came off his bike. He said he was cutting across the road to go into a petrol station. It was dark and he had no lights a hoodie and had his earphones on. He was lucky he wasn't hurt.
  • Don't seem much different to me. Thought pedestrians always had priority when crossing at a junction. Common courtesy really.

    In Japan bicycles aren't included in their version of the highway code. It's mental. 
  • edited January 2022
    Cloudworm said:
    Don't seem much different to me. Thought pedestrians always had priority when crossing at a junction. Common courtesy really.

    In Japan bicycles aren't included in their version of the highway code. It's mental. 
    Might be common courtesy, but if you're turning off a blind bend on a B road, but have to wait while someone to crosses the side road, its not very courteous to the person who might be coming round the bend behind you (insert Kenneth Williams). Even if they're sticking to the speed limit, it can cause an accident.

  • Just what the absolute fuck in terms of points four and five???

    Whats the point of installing cycle lanes in the first place if they dont have to be used?

    As for having a bike either side of a car

    Do they want to have a bloody death wish?
    Millions spent on these cycle highways across London, only to encourage people not to use them. Farcical.
  • I had to check it wasn't the 1st of April when I first saw the changes.
    Farcical 
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  • I've re-read my post and I made two spelling mistakes. I apologise for any offence that may have been caused to others, in addition to myself.
  • Croydon said:
    Just what the absolute fuck in terms of points four and five???

    Whats the point of installing cycle lanes in the first place if they dont have to be used?

    As for having a bike either side of a car

    Do they want to have a bloody death wish?
    Millions spent on these cycle highways across London, only to encourage people not to use them. Farcical.
    Yeah thats where my thinking was going too
  • Overall this thread is very interesting.

    What it highlights to me is this new norm that people are responsible to more vulnerable people, without those people being asked to take any responsibility themselves.

    For example, cycling with headphones on. Just who are these stupid people? I myself get annoyed with anyone in my family who doesn't put on a helmet, of which we have six or seven between us.
  • seth plum said:
    Gribbo said:
    Cloudworm said:
    Don't seem much different to me. Thought pedestrians always had priority when crossing at a junction. Common courtesy really.

    In Japan bicycles aren't included in their version of the highway code. It's mental. 
    Might be common courtesy, but if you're turning off a blind bend on a B road, but have to wait while someone to crosses the side road, its not very courteous to the person who might be coming round the bend behind you (insert Kenneth Williams). Even if they're sticking to the speed limit, it can cause an accident.

    If somebody is coming round a blind bend they ought to slow down and cover the brakes.
    It could just as easily be a broken down vehicle they encounter rather than a driver doing the right thing by a pedestrian.
    Cars break down on the outside lanes of motorways, but it's mechanical failure causing any resulting collision, not an I'll thought out change to current rules.

    But like I said in my post though; even if someone is sticking to the speed limit, it could possible cause an accident. For the sake of a pedestrian waiting a few seconds for the road vehicle to turn off the main road, I cant see what's being achieved by this change. Less said about changes 4 and maybe 5 the better




  • A child of ten going about their business, looking both ways when crossing and stuff, is not required to be any more responsible than that.
    Every other non pedestrian road user from a skateboarder to an HGV driver is responsible for the safety of that child.
    Right of way is one of the most muddled concepts on the highway, and it is often used badly to justify poor behaviour.
    The child has the right of way before every other non pedestrian road user and to me that is the long and short of it.
    My own experience as a motorcyclist taught me that I was invisible, every other road user hated me and wanted to kill me, but most importantly I should regard every accident I had as my fault, whatever the regulations.
    A dent in a car is a mashed up leg for a motorcyclist.
  • This is absolutely true.

    Wife and I went out for a walk this morning to get a few bits and pieces from the shops. To get there, we have to cross a fairly major road which we do using a traffic island in the road where we can cross half way and then wait until it is clear the other way.

    This morning, on both crossings, cars saw us waiting on the traffic island to cross and stopped and let us cross! Hardly ever happened before. Will be interesting to see how long this lasts!

    PS I also think this stuff about cyclists NOT having to use cycle lanes and being encouraged to cycle down the middle of the road is absurd. 
  • Overall this thread is very interesting.

    What it highlights to me is this new norm that people are responsible to more vulnerable people, without those people being asked to take any responsibility themselves.

    For example, cycling with headphones on. Just who are these stupid people? I myself get annoyed with anyone in my family who doesn't put on a helmet, of which we have six or seven between us.
    I think those are pretty fair points regarding helmets and headphones personally. I wouldn’t still be here if it wasn’t for cycle helmets.

     It’s interesting that I’ve not seen anyone on here object to number 3, as I think that is the most important change and if everyone stuck to that at all times cycling would be a lot safer and feel a lot safer for those who are put off using a bike because of risk.
  • Gribbo said:
    seth plum said:
    Gribbo said:
    Cloudworm said:
    Don't seem much different to me. Thought pedestrians always had priority when crossing at a junction. Common courtesy really.

    In Japan bicycles aren't included in their version of the highway code. It's mental. 
    Might be common courtesy, but if you're turning off a blind bend on a B road, but have to wait while someone to crosses the side road, its not very courteous to the person who might be coming round the bend behind you (insert Kenneth Williams). Even if they're sticking to the speed limit, it can cause an accident.

    If somebody is coming round a blind bend they ought to slow down and cover the brakes.
    It could just as easily be a broken down vehicle they encounter rather than a driver doing the right thing by a pedestrian.
    Cars break down on the outside lanes of motorways, but it's mechanical failure causing any resulting collision, not an I'll thought out change to current rules.

    But like I said in my post though; even if someone is sticking to the speed limit, it could possible cause an accident. For the sake of a pedestrian waiting a few seconds for the road vehicle to turn off the main road, I cant see what's being achieved by this change. Less said about changes 4 and maybe 5 the better




    We will have to agree to disagree.
    To my mind the pedestrian should not have to wait a few seconds, especially if they are a non driver who does not understand the road dynamics, and also especially if it is teeming down with rain.
    The driver should wait, and that idea has now been strengthened by the new regulations.
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  • edited January 2022
    This is absolutely true.

    Wife and I went out for a walk this morning to get a few bits and pieces from the shops. To get there, we have to cross a fairly major road which we do using a traffic island in the road where we can cross half way and then wait until it is clear the other way.

    This morning, on both crossings, cars saw us waiting on the traffic island to cross and stopped and let us cross! Hardly ever happened before. Will be interesting to see how long this lasts!

    PS I also think this stuff about cyclists NOT having to use cycle lanes and being encouraged to cycle down the middle of the road is absurd. 
    Yesterday, I also witnessed a car two in front of me, stopping to let a pedestrian cross from a traffic island, the road wasn't particularly busy, there was no traffic behind me and the pedestrian wouldn't have had to wait long to cross.  A quick check of the first driver's rear view mirror would have alerted to them to the fact that the pedestrian would soon be able to cross without stopping the traffic.

    If there is a lot of traffic moving slowly and there is little chance of there being a big enough gap in traffic to allow the pedestrian to cross, then it's courtesy to let the pedestrian cross. Of course the pedestrian then needs to be aware that a line of slow moving traffic may be overtaken by an impatient motorbike or cyclist.
  • The road from Charlton House to the Standard is an interesting one.
    It is used on a very regular basis by horses in a troop. It is used by buses, all the other vehicles, and has what can be rather laughingly called a cycle lane.
    The cycle land conflicts with vehicles stopped at the side of the road, appears and disappears, is randomly diverted to allow parking spaces, and is so poorly surfaced it is a danger to ride along.
    I have cycled that bit a lot but not been tempted to go on the pavement because that is pedestrian world, but often been tempted to abandon the cycle land for the carriageway due to the nature of the cyclists journey expected on that stretch of road.
  • seth plum said:
    A child of ten going about their business, looking both ways when crossing and stuff, is not required to be any more responsible than that.
    Every other non pedestrian road user from a skateboarder to an HGV driver is responsible for the safety of that child.
    Right of way is one of the most muddled concepts on the highway, and it is often used badly to justify poor behaviour.
    The child has the right of way before every other non pedestrian road user and to me that is the long and short of it.
    My own experience as a motorcyclist taught me that I was invisible, every other road user hated me and wanted to kill me, but most importantly I should regard every accident I had as my fault, whatever the regulations.
    A dent in a car is a mashed up leg for a motorcyclist.
     I agree that were are all , as car drivers, responsible for the safety of pedestrians.

    However as father to three children around that age, I have always taught them, as I expect most parents do, to cross the road at pedestrian crossings and zebra crossings , where you have priority , but must still be careful. Otherwise, you wait until it's safe to cross.
    Some people look and because they have seen a car they assume that the car has seen them. This is a big mistake. Car drivers are not robots ( yet unfortunately), they are human so as your life depends upon it, you have to expect mistakes or carelessness.
    You can't complain about it when you're dead.
  • edited January 2022
    This is absolutely true.

    Wife and I went out for a walk this morning to get a few bits and pieces from the shops. To get there, we have to cross a fairly major road which we do using a traffic island in the road where we can cross half way and then wait until it is clear the other way.

    This morning, on both crossings, cars saw us waiting on the traffic island to cross and stopped and let us cross! Hardly ever happened before. Will be interesting to see how long this lasts!

    PS I also think this stuff about cyclists NOT having to use cycle lanes and being encouraged to cycle down the middle of the road is absurd. 
    Yesterday, I also witnessed a car two in front of me, stopping to let a pedestrian cross from a traffic island, the road wasn't particularly busy, there was no traffic behind me and the pedestrian wouldn't have had to wait long to cross.  A quick check of the first driver's rear view mirror would have alerted to them to the fact that the pedestrian would soon be able to cross without stopping the traffic.

    If there is a lot of traffic moving slowly and there is little chance of their being a big enough gap in traffic to allow the pedestrian to cross, then it's courtesy to let the pedestrian cross. Of course the pedestrian then needs to be aware that a line of slow moving traffic may be overtaken by an impatient motorbike or cyclist.
    One of my pet hates, people not using their mirrors when being courteous.
    Difficult to get too annoyed at, as they are only trying to be polite, but
    FFS look in your mirror and appreciate that no one is behind you.

    Them and people who turn into 70 MPH police officers on motorways.
    If people wish to go faster, get out the way.
    It is not your job 
  • seth plum said:
    A child of ten going about their business, looking both ways when crossing and stuff, is not required to be any more responsible than that.
    Every other non pedestrian road user from a skateboarder to an HGV driver is responsible for the safety of that child.
    Right of way is one of the most muddled concepts on the highway, and it is often used badly to justify poor behaviour.
    The child has the right of way before every other non pedestrian road user and to me that is the long and short of it.
    My own experience as a motorcyclist taught me that I was invisible, every other road user hated me and wanted to kill me, but most importantly I should regard every accident I had as my fault, whatever the regulations.
    A dent in a car is a mashed up leg for a motorcyclist.
     I agree that were are all , as car drivers, responsible for the safety of pedestrians.

    However as father to three children around that age, I have always taught them, as I expect most parents do, to cross the road at pedestrian crossings and zebra crossings , where you have priority , but must still be careful. Otherwise, you wait until it's safe to cross.
    Some people look and because they have seen a car they assume that the car has seen them. This is a big mistake. Car drivers are not robots ( yet unfortunately), they are human so as your life depends upon it, you have to expect mistakes or carelessness.
    You can't complain about it when you're dead.
    Yes.
    I would not advocate a child should proceed Willy Nilly. I would emphasise to them what I learned as a motorcyclist, that every accident is their fault! You have to be lucky with motorists every time because the likelihood is you’re only going to be unlucky once.
    Even with that, a child suddenly running into the road to chase a ball from between parked cars ought to be safe because drivers ought to assume such a thing can happen at any moment…even if they feel that’s an unreasonable expectation.
  • ROTW said:
    This is absolutely true.

    Wife and I went out for a walk this morning to get a few bits and pieces from the shops. To get there, we have to cross a fairly major road which we do using a traffic island in the road where we can cross half way and then wait until it is clear the other way.

    This morning, on both crossings, cars saw us waiting on the traffic island to cross and stopped and let us cross! Hardly ever happened before. Will be interesting to see how long this lasts!

    PS I also think this stuff about cyclists NOT having to use cycle lanes and being encouraged to cycle down the middle of the road is absurd. 
    Yesterday, I also witnessed a car two in front of me, stopping to let a pedestrian cross from a traffic island, the road wasn't particularly busy, there was no traffic behind me and the pedestrian wouldn't have had to wait long to cross.  A quick check of the first driver's rear view mirror would have alerted to them to the fact that the pedestrian would soon be able to cross without stopping the traffic.

    If there is a lot of traffic moving slowly and there is little chance of their being a big enough gap in traffic to allow the pedestrian to cross, then it's courtesy to let the pedestrian cross. Of course the pedestrian then needs to be aware that a line of slow moving traffic may be overtaken by an impatient motorbike or cyclist.
    One of my pet hates, people not using their mirrors when being courteous.
    Difficult to get too annoyed at, as they are only trying to be polite, but
    FFS look in your mirror and appreciate that no one is behind you.

    Them and people who turn into 70 MPH police officers on motorways.
    If people wish to go faster, get out the way.
    It is not your job 
    A motorist behind me (when they drew alongside at the lights) had hooted me shortly before, and then screamed at me that I ought to have looked in my mirror before slamming on my brakes.
    What difference would that have been supposed to make?
    They were driving too close, but that isn’t why I had to brake, it was for another safety related reason.
  • Gribbo said:
    Cloudworm said:
    Don't seem much different to me. Thought pedestrians always had priority when crossing at a junction. Common courtesy really.

    In Japan bicycles aren't included in their version of the highway code. It's mental. 
    Might be common courtesy, but if you're turning off a blind bend on a B road, but have to wait while someone to crosses the side road, its not very courteous to the person who might be coming round the bend behind you (insert Kenneth Williams). Even if they're sticking to the speed limit, it can cause an accident.

    In this example with or without the rule change the driver should indicate before going round the bend so that any vehicles behind know that they will either be turning or pulling over. Drivers behind should be paying enough attention to spot this and adjust their spending accordingly.

    For any BMW drivers you can find your indicators on a stalk just behind the steering wheel.
    You're obviously not understanding the example mate.
  • Gribbo said:
    Cloudworm said:
    Don't seem much different to me. Thought pedestrians always had priority when crossing at a junction. Common courtesy really.

    In Japan bicycles aren't included in their version of the highway code. It's mental. 
    Might be common courtesy, but if you're turning off a blind bend on a B road, but have to wait while someone to crosses the side road, its not very courteous to the person who might be coming round the bend behind you (insert Kenneth Williams). Even if they're sticking to the speed limit, it can cause an accident.

    In this example with or without the rule change the driver should indicate before going round the bend so that any vehicles behind know that they will either be turning or pulling over. Drivers behind should be paying enough attention to spot this and adjust their spending accordingly.

    For any BMW drivers you can find your indicators on a stalk just behind the steering wheel.
    Is that not where I hang my air freshner?
  • Gribbo said:
    Cloudworm said:
    Don't seem much different to me. Thought pedestrians always had priority when crossing at a junction. Common courtesy really.

    In Japan bicycles aren't included in their version of the highway code. It's mental. 
    Might be common courtesy, but if you're turning off a blind bend on a B road, but have to wait while someone to crosses the side road, its not very courteous to the person who might be coming round the bend behind you (insert Kenneth Williams). Even if they're sticking to the speed limit, it can cause an accident.

    In this example with or without the rule change the driver should indicate before going round the bend so that any vehicles behind know that they will either be turning or pulling over. Drivers behind should be paying enough attention to spot this and adjust their spending accordingly.

    For any BMW drivers you can find your indicators on a stalk just behind the steering wheel.
    Is that not where I hang my air freshner?
    ffs what do you think your rear view mirror is for 😉
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