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Give Jacko The Job (He got given it on page 31...)
Comments
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xenophobiaCovered End said:Terry Skiverton is English.
"fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign."0 -
Beale was spoken to before. I personally believe he was TS choice but his hand was forced by the upturn in results under JJ and the clamour from fans for JJ to get the job permanently. As some said at the time there was no rush needed to give JJ the job, just wait and see how things panned out. Turns out they were right.dajavouslagan said:Really wanted it to work out for Jacko but not impressed so far. Players in wrong positions similar to Bowyer, lack of flexibility, tactically poor. Part of me says give him the summer etc etc but thinking now we really do need a fresh start with complete new management with fresh ideas. I see how Ipswich have improved with their young progressive young manager & am slightly jealous. If we have a chance of similar then maybe we need to be ruthless. Michael Beale has been mentioned & after reading up on him he would certainly fit this criteria!0 -
The problem with Beale was it just fell at the wrong time with Gerrard off to Aston Villa , that basically took him out of contention.
I really want it to work out for Jacko but I honestly wonder if it ever will. I probably would give him the summer but I'd want a serious upturn from it.
Ipswich with Kieran McKenna and MK Dons with Liam Manning are both excellent points that people have made further up the thread.0 -
Aston Villa: Michael Beale - meet the man behind Steven Gerrard's success - BBC Sport
The kind of person we really should be looking at. Forward thinking and ready for the step up.
Did you ever have whispers that Jackson was something special while he was coaching under Bowyer and Adkins? Not really.0 -
Were they? Some wanted Powell gone after his first half a season. Last summer Adkins looked a good appointment but he was let down by poor recruitment. He suffered for that and it’s continued the same way for Jackson.LargeAddick said:
Beale was spoken to before. I personally believe he was TS choice but his hand was forced by the upturn in results under JJ and the clamour from fans for JJ to get the job permanently. As some said at the time there was no rush needed to give JJ the job, just wait and see how things panned out. Turns out they were right.dajavouslagan said:Really wanted it to work out for Jacko but not impressed so far. Players in wrong positions similar to Bowyer, lack of flexibility, tactically poor. Part of me says give him the summer etc etc but thinking now we really do need a fresh start with complete new management with fresh ideas. I see how Ipswich have improved with their young progressive young manager & am slightly jealous. If we have a chance of similar then maybe we need to be ruthless. Michael Beale has been mentioned & after reading up on him he would certainly fit this criteria!
If it was a choice between a new manager but keeping this squad together or Jackson and good recruitment I’d back the latter to have a better chance of promotion next season.2 -
Adkins seems to be getting exculpated on here recently, though and he has to take some of the blame. Recruitment was bad but not relegation-zone bad. Some of the performances under him were Les Reed-esque and I remember the full-backs being completely isolated 1v1 against the wingers every week. Players shouting at the touchline to change the f#@&g shape...Scoham said:
Were they? Some wanted Powell gone after his first half a season. Last summer Adkins looked a good appointment but he was let down by poor recruitment. He suffered for that and it’s continued the same way for Jackson.LargeAddick said:
Beale was spoken to before. I personally believe he was TS choice but his hand was forced by the upturn in results under JJ and the clamour from fans for JJ to get the job permanently. As some said at the time there was no rush needed to give JJ the job, just wait and see how things panned out. Turns out they were right.dajavouslagan said:Really wanted it to work out for Jacko but not impressed so far. Players in wrong positions similar to Bowyer, lack of flexibility, tactically poor. Part of me says give him the summer etc etc but thinking now we really do need a fresh start with complete new management with fresh ideas. I see how Ipswich have improved with their young progressive young manager & am slightly jealous. If we have a chance of similar then maybe we need to be ruthless. Michael Beale has been mentioned & after reading up on him he would certainly fit this criteria!
If it was a choice between a new manager but keeping this squad together or Jackson and good recruitment I’d back the latter to have a better chance of promotion next season.
The players clearly weren't interested playing for him, not that it takes much for this bunch!1 -
It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here5
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Will JJ and the club be able to recruit the players that he needs to play his formation in time for next season?
Thats the big question for me. If not then he either has to go or he has to change his tactics to suit the players that he has at his disposal.1 -
I think there is a bit of chicken and egg here.Chunes said:
Adkins seems to be getting exculpated on here recently, though and he has to take some of the blame. Recruitment was bad but not relegation-zone bad. Some of the performances under him were Les Reed-esque and I remember the full-backs being completely isolated 1v1 against the wingers every week. Players shouting at the touchline to change the f#@&g shape...Scoham said:
Were they? Some wanted Powell gone after his first half a season. Last summer Adkins looked a good appointment but he was let down by poor recruitment. He suffered for that and it’s continued the same way for Jackson.LargeAddick said:
Beale was spoken to before. I personally believe he was TS choice but his hand was forced by the upturn in results under JJ and the clamour from fans for JJ to get the job permanently. As some said at the time there was no rush needed to give JJ the job, just wait and see how things panned out. Turns out they were right.dajavouslagan said:Really wanted it to work out for Jacko but not impressed so far. Players in wrong positions similar to Bowyer, lack of flexibility, tactically poor. Part of me says give him the summer etc etc but thinking now we really do need a fresh start with complete new management with fresh ideas. I see how Ipswich have improved with their young progressive young manager & am slightly jealous. If we have a chance of similar then maybe we need to be ruthless. Michael Beale has been mentioned & after reading up on him he would certainly fit this criteria!
If it was a choice between a new manager but keeping this squad together or Jackson and good recruitment I’d back the latter to have a better chance of promotion next season.
The players clearly weren't interested playing for him, not that it takes much for this bunch!
Adkins obviously isn't blameless and he should have turned it round but. If a manager ends up with players who know he didn't want them and you get 1 point out of the 1st four games it starts to become a bit of a problem.0 -
Well I don't know if that was the case or not since it's only rumour, unless something has been said in a Q&A that I've missed. Hypothetically, if it was true, I'd wonder who told the players the manager didn't want them. Even when RD's merry band of unwanted men (Anil Koc etc.) were showing up at the training ground unannounced, CP made them feel like they were meant to be there.Cafc43v3r said:
I think there is a bit of chicken and egg here.Chunes said:
Adkins seems to be getting exculpated on here recently, though and he has to take some of the blame. Recruitment was bad but not relegation-zone bad. Some of the performances under him were Les Reed-esque and I remember the full-backs being completely isolated 1v1 against the wingers every week. Players shouting at the touchline to change the f#@&g shape...Scoham said:
Were they? Some wanted Powell gone after his first half a season. Last summer Adkins looked a good appointment but he was let down by poor recruitment. He suffered for that and it’s continued the same way for Jackson.LargeAddick said:
Beale was spoken to before. I personally believe he was TS choice but his hand was forced by the upturn in results under JJ and the clamour from fans for JJ to get the job permanently. As some said at the time there was no rush needed to give JJ the job, just wait and see how things panned out. Turns out they were right.dajavouslagan said:Really wanted it to work out for Jacko but not impressed so far. Players in wrong positions similar to Bowyer, lack of flexibility, tactically poor. Part of me says give him the summer etc etc but thinking now we really do need a fresh start with complete new management with fresh ideas. I see how Ipswich have improved with their young progressive young manager & am slightly jealous. If we have a chance of similar then maybe we need to be ruthless. Michael Beale has been mentioned & after reading up on him he would certainly fit this criteria!
If it was a choice between a new manager but keeping this squad together or Jackson and good recruitment I’d back the latter to have a better chance of promotion next season.
The players clearly weren't interested playing for him, not that it takes much for this bunch!
Adkins obviously isn't blameless and he should have turned it round but. If a manager ends up with players who know he didn't want them and you get 1 point out of the 1st four games it starts to become a bit of a problem.0 - Sponsored links:
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This is ultimately a whole recruitment team effort, which should include JJ as a significant part of that process. He knows what we need and he will inform what players he wants. I think it's clear, based on the overall performance of the team since he came in, that he will know where we need to strengthen. We've all been banging on about proper WBs with enough gas in the tank to run for 90mins twice a week for a while, and whilst Washington's contract is still up in the air, we still may need at least one new striker with some pace. And that's not accounting for if anyone comes knocking for Dobson...cafc999 said:Will JJ and the club be able to recruit the players that he needs to play his formation in time for next season?
Thats the big question for me. If not then he either has to go or he has to change his tactics to suit the players that he has at his disposal.
If we stick with JJ for next season, then I think we should be recruiting to his system. I don't think his tactics will change - he identified this system for us at the time and has stuck with it, but only he can say whether this is the way he wants to get success in this league OR it was the best system he could see with the players we had. I suspect it is more the former than the latter.
TS backed NA with players for his system. Difficult to answer to what extent he'll do that again for JJ, but I sincerely hope he will.1 -
I think you have hit the nail on the head. It isn't for us to tell Jacko what tactics he should use, but if he can't bring in the players he needs to play it, he might need to be pragmatic and find a formation that suits the players we have. As it stands, we don't know what will happen over the summer, but if TS does not intend to back Jacko, he might be better looking for a Pulis or Warnock who will make something out of the crap they have.cafc999 said:Will JJ and the club be able to recruict the players that he needs to play his formation in time for next season?
Thats the big question for me. If not then he either has to go or he has to change his tactics to suit the players that he has at his disposal.
I assume, and hope Jacko will be backed and he is in a good position to know what is needed if he is.0 -
The difference is we had a massively under funded squad when Powell started and new owners. There were reasons to be optimistic about the summer.Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
Now it's the same people who made a horlicks of last summer doing it again.
Changing the manager or not changing the manager won't make any difference if that's the only change.1 -
100% behind Jackson
It hasn’t been amazing since he took over. But it’s been a horrible season of a different bloke in charge through summer recruitment then a raft of injuries and playing catch up.
If everything is shot behind the scenes then our best bet is sticking with a Charlton man who will knit the club together.I think given a bit more time and a summer recruitment, he will be a success.4 -
What is the salary/squad cap limit for next season? And do coaches count as part of the cap? Anybody know?0
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The issue with tactics is what could he change it to?MuttleyCAFC said:
I think you have hit the nail on the head. It isn't for us to tell Jacko what tactics he should use, but if he can't bring in the players he needs to play it, he might need to be pragmatic and find a formation that suits the players we have. As it stands, we don't know what will happen over the summer, but if TS does not intend to back Jacko, he might be better looking for a Pulis or Warnock who will make something out of the crap they have.cafc999 said:Will JJ and the club be able to recruict the players that he needs to play his formation in time for next season?
Thats the big question for me. If not then he either has to go or he has to change his tactics to suit the players that he has at his disposal.
I assume, and hope Jacko will be backed and he is in a good position to know what is needed if he is.
You need 3 central midfielders. Stockley needs a partner (that's a failing of recruitment and I really like Stockley) and we can't perm a good enough back 4 (again a recruitment issue as thats what we wanted).
Not a lot left when you take that into account.0 -
You know what was meant, many had written Powell off by March 2011.JohnnyH2 said:
I doubt there was any threads wanting Powell sacked in April 2012Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/40407/dagenham-2-1-charlton-post-match-thread/p1
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The big question is did Jean buy Nathan that drink at Bournemouth?Scoham said:
You know what was meant, many had written Powell off by March 2011.JohnnyH2 said:
I doubt there was any threads wanting Powell sacked in April 2012Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/40407/dagenham-2-1-charlton-post-match-thread/p10 -
No salary cap, still a squad cap though.MuttleyCAFC said:What is the salary/squad cap limit for next season? And do coaches count as part of the cap? Anybody know?0 - Sponsored links:
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Scoham said:
You know what was meant, many had written Powell off by March 2011.JohnnyH2 said:
I doubt there was any threads wanting Powell sacked in April 2012Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/40407/dagenham-2-1-charlton-post-match-thread/p1
Let's be honest though, that team was proper lower league one jank compared to what we have now - a lot LOT worse than what Jackson's got to work with.
Worner; Jenkinson, Fry, Dailly, Llera; McCormack, Semedo, Parrett, Wagstaff; Nouble, Wright-Phillips
Apart from Jenkinson and BWP I'll take the players we have now over the rest (at their best).
Powell was able to build a top league one squad on a million, we've spent close to 3 mil across this one and only been able to build a "mid table" team. This was so long ago now the money, rebuild and the quality of the league is pointless in comparison.
Still undecided on Jackson now, not massively bothered he stays or goes, we're just fucked regardless.2 -
We have about 29 in the squad but U21s don't count so Harness, Barker, John and Costillo probably should be ignored so that is about 25. If Pearce is a player coach, maybe 24. What is the number for next season?0
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I was expecting drama on that thread but not the drama I found!Scoham said:
You know what was meant, many had written Powell off by March 2011.JohnnyH2 said:
I doubt there was any threads wanting Powell sacked in April 2012Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/40407/dagenham-2-1-charlton-post-match-thread/p10 -
What is interesting about that thread, and I had forgotten but it was known there would be a big clear out (which there was).0
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Wagstaff and BWP got promoted with us a year later. Semedo and Llera did the same with Sheff Wed. Jenkinson went to Arsenal. McCormack got promoted from the same league a few years later. That’s over half of that team, did Tuesday’s starting 11 have anyone who will get a Prem move in the summer? How many could help a team get promoted from this division next season? Probably slightly more than that team had, but this one is poor for other reasons - players like Matthews coasting for most of the season (regardless of manager), JFC unavailable all season, no goalscoring midfielders (that team had Jackson and Wagstaff), over reliant on Washington and Stockley etc.CL_Phantom said:Scoham said:
You know what was meant, many had written Powell off by March 2011.JohnnyH2 said:
I doubt there was any threads wanting Powell sacked in April 2012Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/40407/dagenham-2-1-charlton-post-match-thread/p1
Let's be honest though, that team was proper lower league one jank compared to what we have now - a lot LOT worse than what Jackson's got to work with.
Worner; Jenkinson, Fry, Dailly, Llera; McCormack, Semedo, Parrett, Wagstaff; Nouble, Wright-Phillips
Apart from Jenkinson and BWP I'll take the players we have now over the rest (at their best).
Powell was able to build a top league one squad on a million, we've spent close to 3 mil across this one and only been able to build a "mid table" team. This was so long ago now the money, rebuild and the quality of the league is pointless in comparison.
Still undecided on Jackson now, not massively bothered he stays or goes, we're just fucked regardless.0 -
Scoham said:
Wagstaff and BWP got promoted with us a year later. Semedo and Llera did the same with Sheff Wed. Jenkinson went to Arsenal. McCormack got promoted from the same league a few years later. That’s over half of that team, did Tuesday’s starting 11 have anyone who will get a Prem move in the summer? How many could help a team get promoted from this division next season? Probably slightly more than that team had, but this one is poor for other reasons - players like Matthews coasting for most of the season (regardless of manager), JFC unavailable all season, no goalscoring midfielders (that team had Jackson and Wagstaff), over reliant on Washington and Stockley etc.CL_Phantom said:Scoham said:
You know what was meant, many had written Powell off by March 2011.JohnnyH2 said:
I doubt there was any threads wanting Powell sacked in April 2012Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/40407/dagenham-2-1-charlton-post-match-thread/p1
Let's be honest though, that team was proper lower league one jank compared to what we have now - a lot LOT worse than what Jackson's got to work with.
Worner; Jenkinson, Fry, Dailly, Llera; McCormack, Semedo, Parrett, Wagstaff; Nouble, Wright-Phillips
Apart from Jenkinson and BWP I'll take the players we have now over the rest (at their best).
Powell was able to build a top league one squad on a million, we've spent close to 3 mil across this one and only been able to build a "mid table" team. This was so long ago now the money, rebuild and the quality of the league is pointless in comparison.
Still undecided on Jackson now, not massively bothered he stays or goes, we're just fucked regardless.
Wagstaff, semedo, llera and mcOxo didn't get promoted because they were top 6 players though, they got promoted because the standard of league one was a whole lot weaker than it is now.
Purrington, Pearce and Morgan have been promoted with us recently. Famewo is a prem youth player many thought was championship standard, Frazer is supposed to be one of league ones top playmakers as was Kirk, Dobson may be at risk of top lg1/ lower champ teams coming in for him. Stockley we prized away by a championship club. Gunter and Washington are regular internationals.
Would you take Llera, Daily, semedo, McCormack and Wagstaff over...
Lavelle, Pearce, Dobson, Gilbey and DJ?
No way!0 -
You don’t need an entire squad of top 6 players, my point was both squads had players who could contribute to a promotion side, even if our current squad on paper is better.CL_Phantom said:Scoham said:
Wagstaff and BWP got promoted with us a year later. Semedo and Llera did the same with Sheff Wed. Jenkinson went to Arsenal. McCormack got promoted from the same league a few years later. That’s over half of that team, did Tuesday’s starting 11 have anyone who will get a Prem move in the summer? How many could help a team get promoted from this division next season? Probably slightly more than that team had, but this one is poor for other reasons - players like Matthews coasting for most of the season (regardless of manager), JFC unavailable all season, no goalscoring midfielders (that team had Jackson and Wagstaff), over reliant on Washington and Stockley etc.CL_Phantom said:Scoham said:
You know what was meant, many had written Powell off by March 2011.JohnnyH2 said:
I doubt there was any threads wanting Powell sacked in April 2012Rothko said:It’s not hard to find the threads from April 2012 wanting Powell gone, they read exactly like some of the posts on here
https://charltonlife.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/40407/dagenham-2-1-charlton-post-match-thread/p1
Let's be honest though, that team was proper lower league one jank compared to what we have now - a lot LOT worse than what Jackson's got to work with.
Worner; Jenkinson, Fry, Dailly, Llera; McCormack, Semedo, Parrett, Wagstaff; Nouble, Wright-Phillips
Apart from Jenkinson and BWP I'll take the players we have now over the rest (at their best).
Powell was able to build a top league one squad on a million, we've spent close to 3 mil across this one and only been able to build a "mid table" team. This was so long ago now the money, rebuild and the quality of the league is pointless in comparison.
Still undecided on Jackson now, not massively bothered he stays or goes, we're just fucked regardless.
Wagstaff, semedo, llera and mcOxo didn't get promoted because they were top 6 players though, they got promoted because the standard of league one was a whole lot weaker than it is now.
Purrington, Pearce and Morgan have been promoted with us recently. Famewo is a prem youth player many thought was championship standard, Frazer is supposed to be one of league ones top playmakers as was Kirk, Dobson may be at risk of top lg1/ lower champ teams coming in for him. Stockley we prized away by a championship club. Gunter and Washington are regular internationals.
Would you take Llera, Daily, semedo, McCormack and Wagstaff over...
Lavelle, Pearce, Dobson, Gilbey and DJ?
No way!
What both squads were missing were those top players who you knew would comfortably step up to the Championship. Powell had several of them and in Yann a player who turned us from a playoff team into title winners. Powell’s team was similar with Taylor having a similar impact to Yann.
We know we’ll likely make at least 7/8 signings (including loans) in the summer and possibly 10+. We need that to include some top end L1 players, those who will drag the team up a level or two.
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35 Games League & Cup 16 wins (46%) 5 draws (14%) 14 losses (40%)
Work to do for sure, but some proper churn and better player acquisition (on SG and MS more so than JJ perhaps (?)) and I believe those ratios will swing into a top 6 shape. Persisting in a formation you believe in while awaiting better fitting players, not a problem in my eyes. Hopefully a brighter, bigger picture will become apparent.2 -
We shall see what business is done but probably need to be open minded about it at this stage.0
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There's a lot more competition for better players down here now and they cost a lot more than they used to. That's the problem and the pointless comparison to Powell's revolution that we need to replicate.
We may get 2 or be lucky and get 4 top 6 league one players in, add that to, who? Dobson and Fraser? That's 4/6. Is 4 top 6 league one players and a bunch of squad fillers enough to get us top 2 next season?
Probably not
We were supposed to have more than that number this season, Papa S, Gilbey, Stockley, Kirk, Famewo, Purrington, Arter, McGillivray, Washington were all supposed to be that level and get playoffs and, failed, miserably.
We'll probably be in this position next year, probably wondering why Sandgaard didn't sack Jackson earlier.
Ah well.2
