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Give Jacko The Job (He got given it on page 31...)
Comments
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It’s not just Jackson who needs to be looked at. I got in to the ground about 2-15 and watched the players warming up. It was a shambles. The goalkeeping coach was smashing the ball as hard as he could at the keepers - a few times the ball didn’t go anywhere near the goal.Then the shooting drill - it was embarrassing, nobody seemed to know what they were doing….players bumping in to each other, piss poor lay offs and the actual shooting was dreadful. Leko looked like he had been picked out of the crowd to join in.3
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We have got square pegs in round holes now because we get the recruitment wrong again. Even if we changed back to 4231 we would have square pegs in round holes.Chunes said:I'd give Jacko the summer and 15 games. If we're not in the top 6 after that, he's got to go. But bring in someone who plays the same formation, so we're not putting square pegs in round holes again.
Everyone knew we needed a left back in the mold of Dasilva or Maatsen. We got Souare. We still haven't got a left footed winger. We have got 1 proper right footed center half. That would be less square pegs what ever the formation.
Who ever our manager was this season, if we had kept Adkins, started with Jackson, someone completely different, we would have finished below Bolton and above Fleetwood. That's not good enough.
I agree we have got to get off to a flyer next season but after 15 games we won't know if it's the managers fault or not or sacking him will improve anything.1 -
If the summer goes well and we're not off to a flyer then I'm happy to say it's the manager's fault5
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In September most people, including me, thought that in the end the summer was actually quite good. In hindsight it was even worse than even the most negative people were saying at the time.Chunes said:If the summer goes well and we're not off to a flyer then I'm happy to say it's the manager's fault
People were still seriously talking play offs in February.0 -
15 games, 25 games, 30 games ? Exactly when should it be decided that the managers not up to the job ? How many games this season have shown something to show us we should be confident ? I’m happy to see JJ get his players through the door and get a crack next season but if we’re not top six after fifteen games then as far as I’m concerned he should be gone.Cafc43v3r said:
We have got square pegs in round holes now because we get the recruitment wrong again. Even if we changed back to 4231 we would have square pegs in round holes.Chunes said:I'd give Jacko the summer and 15 games. If we're not in the top 6 after that, he's got to go. But bring in someone who plays the same formation, so we're not putting square pegs in round holes again.
Everyone knew we needed a left back in the mold of Dasilva or Maatsen. We got Souare. We still haven't got a left footed winger. We have got 1 proper right footed center half. That would be less square pegs what ever the formation.
Who ever our manager was this season, if we had kept Adkins, started with Jackson, someone completely different, we would have finished below Bolton and above Fleetwood. That's not good enough.
I agree we have got to get off to a flyer next season but after 15 games we won't know if it's the managers fault or not or sacking him will improve anything.2 -
This is all moot because we know Sandgaard holds on to managers for too long anyway.Cafc43v3r said:
In September most people, including me, thought that in the end the summer was actually quite good. In hindsight it was even worse than even the most negative people were saying at the time.Chunes said:If the summer goes well and we're not off to a flyer then I'm happy to say it's the manager's fault
People were still seriously talking play offs in February.
My point is that I personally don't want us to waste a second 'hoping' Jacko is the one. It would mean just another wasted season in this horrible league. As soon as it's apparent that he's not cutting it, we should change it.3 -
Would any manager have got this squad promoted. The answer is no. If next seasons squad is not significantly better than this one sacking the manager won't magically make it better.ShootersHillGuru said:
15 games, 25 games, 30 games ? Exactly when should it be decided that the managers not up to the job ? How many games this season have shown something to show us we should be confident ? I’m happy to see JJ get his players through the door and get a crack next season but if we’re not top six after fifteen games then as far as I’m concerned he should be gone.Cafc43v3r said:
We have got square pegs in round holes now because we get the recruitment wrong again. Even if we changed back to 4231 we would have square pegs in round holes.Chunes said:I'd give Jacko the summer and 15 games. If we're not in the top 6 after that, he's got to go. But bring in someone who plays the same formation, so we're not putting square pegs in round holes again.
Everyone knew we needed a left back in the mold of Dasilva or Maatsen. We got Souare. We still haven't got a left footed winger. We have got 1 proper right footed center half. That would be less square pegs what ever the formation.
Who ever our manager was this season, if we had kept Adkins, started with Jackson, someone completely different, we would have finished below Bolton and above Fleetwood. That's not good enough.
I agree we have got to get off to a flyer next season but after 15 games we won't know if it's the managers fault or not or sacking him will improve anything.
I am far from convinced next seasons squad will be.3 -
Honestly don't think that'll ever happen under Sandgaard.grumpyaddick said:Really difficult call.
I thought Jackson's energy, commitment and passion would be enough to propel us into the play-offs but the wheels came off the bus really quickly and no-one has really explained why.
I don't think those three recent wins convinced anyone that we were improving in any way. There is nothing confident or fluid about our play, even against the poorest teams in this league. Jackson also looks like a defeated man who has lost confidence and that is fatal in any leadership role.
There is nothing wrong with 3-5-2. It's very progressive and getting all the teams to play that way makes sense . The problem is we are playing that formation really really badly and not getting any better.
On balance, I think it might be time to hire someone who can get us out this league and give them full control of recruitment, selection and tactics. No-one wants to see Jackson getting stick.2 -
I don't want to see a constant stream of managers passing through, but ultimately the manager has to be able to do the job. Despite Jackson having the badges, I never saw the correlation between 'club legend' and successful gaffer.
I am surprised Jackson was allowed to progress with a formation for which we don't have the players. It would have been far more sensible to continue this season using a formation that suited the strengths of the squad we have and then recruit to suit the magical 5-3-2 for next season.
The play-offs were still in our grasp when Jackson was appointed and have been squandered by his quest for 5-3-2. Considering Sandgaard is paying for Jackson's great experiment, JJ's inflexible approach is a bit disrespectful too.
Whilst Jackson retains fan support for now, many are questioning his ability to recruit and develop a successful team from the start of next season. Poor results in August, the knives will be out and it will all be over for JJ by October.
I don't think the summer recruitment window is going to be easy.
For a start, I can't see many players with Championship ability settling for a mid-table league one club, whose end of season league position is still heading in a downward direction. Recent recruitment outcomes don't fill me with confidence that those responsible will bring it off, either.
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There isn’t a magical formation that would get loads more from this squad. They’re a mid table squad whether they play 352, 442, 4231, 433, a diamond or whatever else.RickAddick said:I don't want to see a constant stream of managers passing through, but ultimately the manager has to be able to do the job. Despite Jackson having the badges, I never saw the correlation between 'club legend' and successful gaffer.
I am surprised Jackson was allowed to progress with a formation for which we don't have the players. It would have been far more sensible to continue this season using a formation that suited the strengths of the squad we have and then recruit to suit the magical 5-3-2 for next season.
The play-offs were still in our grasp when Jackson was appointed and have been squandered by his quest for 5-3-2. Considering Sandgaard is paying for Jackson's great experiment, JJ's inflexible approach is a bit disrespectful too.
Whilst Jackson retains fan support for now, many are questioning his ability to recruit and develop a successful team from the start of next season. Poor results in August, the knives will be out and it will all be over for JJ by October.
I don't think the summer recruitment window is going to be easy.
For a start, I can't see many players with Championship ability settling for a mid-table league one club, whose end of season league position is still heading in a downward direction. Recent recruitment outcomes don't fill me with confidence that those responsible will bring it off, either.
Good players will join if we offer enough money. TS claims we’re the third biggest spenders in the league, assuming it’s broadly true the issue is how well that money is spent.2 - Sponsored links:
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Fair play for calling me out on the LOL, I usually hate when people put LOL's after other people's considered posts, even if they might disagree with what has been written, so apologies for that as I have clearly done the same thing. Quite immature on my part, but nothing personal meant by it.Croydon said:
Rather than just sarcastically lol @Notts_Addick why don't you explain why you think a he would deserve the job next season, if we finish that low down the table?Croydon said:Finish below 14th and there is no argument to keep him. Take sentiment out of it
For me, that would be a truly embarrassing league position with a string of genuinely dreadful performances. Has any individual player improved under him?
We all want Jackson to succeed but if we finished lower than 14th with anybody else the whole fanbase would want them gone.
Reasons I think he deserves the job next season:
- He has been in charge for about half a season, give or take. No manager should be judged on half a season. I am quite happy to go on record and state I think JJ's time served at the club should buy him a little bit more time and respect than some fans seem to want to give him. But whether its Jacko or some external gaffer with no affinity to the club, they need more than half a season (And at least a pre season which JJ hasn't had).
- I have no idea of what was going on behind the scenes near the end of Adkins reign but clearly things were not harmonious. JJ did not inherit a steady ship and there were clearly some issues going on in the background.
- JJ took us over when we were in the relegation places. I never thought we would be relegated, but there were plenty of fans saying we were in a relegation scrap. Barring a late collapse we are safe this season (Granted not being relegated from League One should not be considered much of an achievement for a club of our size, but that's not on Jacko)
- Its easily forgotten that even after he took over we were running on what was by all accounts a significant lack of coaches and that has only recently been remedied. Wasnt it at one point him, Euell and one other coach running things? That is not good enough and especially when you consider JJ had a lack of experience in terms of management.
- You are right when you point out 14th is embarrising and nowhere near good enough for this club, and we have under achieved. However I have watched enough of this group of players to know they haven't under achieved as a group, they are just not good enough collectively to be any higher than where we stand right now. Adam Matthews sums up this group quite nicely for me, decent pedigree, flashes of brilliance, looks alright for a few games then disappears for the next five. You could say the same for about half of this group if not more.
- I've been a Charlton fan all my life, through thick and thin. However I like many fans have checked out of this season because its basically a write off from here until the end of the season. It's obvious there are a lot of this squad who are essentially working their notice period and like most who work their notice period, sure they are turning up every day but their heart isn't really in it and they will have one eye on their future, knowing it is elsewhere. For that reason I'm not really judging Jacko from now until the end of the season because I think he is working with a large group of players who probably won't be here next season, whether that is their choice or the clubs choice, or a combination of both.
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Like others have said I can deal with the results this season after all this is Charlton we dont have a right to win games. I'm more pissed off with the performances. For me going to the valley involves 12 hours of driving and a hotel and not a small outlay, I'm more than happy to do this to support my team but we just seem totally devoid of ideas or any ability to adapt when needed. This is 100% down to the manager & coaching set up. I hope I'm wrong but I think JJ would have been best served starting his management career elsewhere and getting experience as his reputation here will be tainted as there is only on way this is ending imo5
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I’ve said this before, and will say again, most of these players put in a shift, have the technical ability for this league, but most fail abysmally when it comes to using their football brain. So many poor decisions when passing, shooting, spacial awareness, running off the ball to find space, I could go on and on!
They graft, but their football intelligence is sadly lacking. Gilbey a prime example, he runs all game, but fails to deliver time and time again. And as much as the sending off was unacceptable, did anyone else note his cross field pass to the ball boy, missed CBT by a country mile, killing a good move!
The difference in the thinking process of JFC and Gilbey is unbelievable. Shame JFC doesn’t have Gilbeys fitness levels.I am behind JJ, as I feel there is off field issues that may be hindering his management this season. So I’m still willing to give him until Xmas, however if Gilbey is still here next season, I will move away from that view.
One last point, I am behind the owner, for now, but given the messaging coming out about sorting the club out structurally, being financially efficient, and making the club more sustainable. I am amazed that he has paid ridiculously high wages (allegedly) for such inept players! So his undoubted business sense, has been badly influenced somewhere along the line, and I fear that influence (whoever, or whatever) it is, is still prevalent. Hopefully, that will be rectified.
As for renewing my season ticket, I stopped going after the third free ticket game, as a combination of mainly poor poor football, and constant viewing interruptions by people who spent more time going backwards and forwards, than actually watching the game, and pathetic stewarding allowing people to stand at the stairwell barriers blocking the goalmouth view for many, ruined my match day.
So no, not unless there is a major overhaul player wise this summer, and I mean only keeping 2 of 3 of the existing charlatans. There is no excuse for most as they’ve underperformed all season, with the exception of a handful of games.This is a bit unfair on Thomas, having to fork out again, but to pay out good money for the product we’ve seen on the pitch is down to him, and his recruitment team. Poor return on an expensive investment!0 -
It's probably just a mix of everything really. Jackson isn't looking great in terms of tactics, performances etc, we have, largely, alimited mid table league one squad and as the 3rd highest spenders/budget or whatever it is, that's been totally wasted with shite recruitment.
A good manager should be able to squeeze a little bit more out of average players, average players should be able to motivate themselves to push that little bit more. Neither seems to be happening much.
He'll start off managing us next season, but don't think he'll be here by the end of it.1 -
Think the criticism of JJ off the back of yesterday is really lazy blamestorming. We created enough clear-cut chances to win that game twice. We restricted them to 2 proper shots on target, both of which were hit right into the corner. We should've won, despite Gilbey's stupidity. It's long been said about us fans that if the team gives it everything and loses we don't turn on them... feel that that's not true in this league. Unsurprising, as it's a shocking league, and we want to see better, but yesterday wasn't a bad performance, and felt Jackson got it right.7
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"His" is a big word, I doubt he will have it all his own way the way Tommy & son operate, I suspect he will be "offered" a few players that he will have to kindly accept.cabbles said:I still think he should get the summer. I’m not overly convinced he’s going to be able to get us up, but he deserves a chance with his squad and his recruitment over the summer0 -
A lot of good teams in our division next year, who will also be stronger I should imagine eg Sunderland, Wednesday, Portsmouth, Oxford, Ipswich, Barnsley, Derby. This is the reason I think we have such a rebuild to do that promotion is extremely unlikely next year. I think sadly we are stuck down in this division for a while.4
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100% agree with this.Jonniesta said:Think the criticism of JJ off the back of yesterday is really lazy blamestorming. We created enough clear-cut chances to win that game twice. We restricted them to 2 proper shots on target, both of which were hit right into the corner. We should've won, despite Gilbey's stupidity. It's long been said about us fans that if the team gives it everything and loses we don't turn on them... feel that that's not true in this league. Unsurprising, as it's a shocking league, and we want to see better, but yesterday wasn't a bad performance, and felt Jackson got it right.0 -
I don't think any of the criticism is aimed at JJ because of yesterday alone.Jonniesta said:Think the criticism of JJ off the back of yesterday is really lazy blamestorming. We created enough clear-cut chances to win that game twice. We restricted them to 2 proper shots on target, both of which were hit right into the corner. We should've won, despite Gilbey's stupidity. It's long been said about us fans that if the team gives it everything and loses we don't turn on them... feel that that's not true in this league. Unsurprising, as it's a shocking league, and we want to see better, but yesterday wasn't a bad performance, and felt Jackson got it right.
More the months of turgid performances and results. He hasn't improved a single player in the side and his January signings have all been flops. He is sticking to a formation that suits precisely zero of our players and his stubbornness with that has lost us points over the course of the season fitting in any tom, dick or harry into the RWB/LWB roles.
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Really? CB-T hasn't improved? Sam Lavelle hasn't improved? George Dobson hasn't improved?SELR_addicks said:
I don't think any of the criticism is aimed at JJ because of yesterday alone.Jonniesta said:Think the criticism of JJ off the back of yesterday is really lazy blamestorming. We created enough clear-cut chances to win that game twice. We restricted them to 2 proper shots on target, both of which were hit right into the corner. We should've won, despite Gilbey's stupidity. It's long been said about us fans that if the team gives it everything and loses we don't turn on them... feel that that's not true in this league. Unsurprising, as it's a shocking league, and we want to see better, but yesterday wasn't a bad performance, and felt Jackson got it right.
More the months of turgid performances and results. He hasn't improved a single player in the side and his January signings have all been flops. He is sticking to a formation that suits precisely zero of our players and his stubbornness with that has lost us points over the course of the season fitting in any tom, dick or harry into the RWB/LWB roles.
I think people criticising may have forgotten where we were when he took over.
My point is people see a defeat now and automatically say 'turgid performance'
The stubbornness on formation I understand from a frustration point of view. But we have now managed to find one person who has grown into the LWB role, at least. Clearly we need more.
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I desperately hope that Jacko can be a success but I am worried about his tactical rigidity and his apparent unwillingness or inability to improvise and switch the formation when things are going badly. Nor am I convinced that he's getting the best out of this group of players who, for all their defects, are not as bad as they are making out.
As has been said time and again, we don't have the personnel to play an effective 3-5-2 formation. Apart from the absence of a single wing back at the club, we need three alert, mobile and intelligent central defenders to play in that formation and I don't think we have them, as is evidenced by the number of times we've been caught out by balls down the channels. Lavelle and Clare will be here next season but there are real question marks over Inniss, Pearce, Famewo and Purrington (who's recently been deployed on the left of a back 3). Yes we can introduce fresh blood into the squad over the summer but you are looking at practically a whole new backline.
All too often, we've found our 'wing backs' being pushed back, with the result that we've ended up with a back 5 and been outnumbered and outplayed in midfield. I appreciate that there have been frequent changes in personnel but the side have shown little sign of successfully deploying the manager's favoured formation.
As ever, a good start will be vital, failing which, I fear that things will turn sour.5 -
CBT was always a bright spot when coming on.Jonniesta said:
Really? CB-T hasn't improved? Sam Lavelle hasn't improved? George Dobson hasn't improved?SELR_addicks said:
I don't think any of the criticism is aimed at JJ because of yesterday alone.Jonniesta said:Think the criticism of JJ off the back of yesterday is really lazy blamestorming. We created enough clear-cut chances to win that game twice. We restricted them to 2 proper shots on target, both of which were hit right into the corner. We should've won, despite Gilbey's stupidity. It's long been said about us fans that if the team gives it everything and loses we don't turn on them... feel that that's not true in this league. Unsurprising, as it's a shocking league, and we want to see better, but yesterday wasn't a bad performance, and felt Jackson got it right.
More the months of turgid performances and results. He hasn't improved a single player in the side and his January signings have all been flops. He is sticking to a formation that suits precisely zero of our players and his stubbornness with that has lost us points over the course of the season fitting in any tom, dick or harry into the RWB/LWB roles.
I think people criticising may have forgotten where we were when he took over.
My point is people see a defeat now and automatically say 'turgid performance'
The stubbornness on formation I understand from a frustration point of view. But we have now managed to find one person who has grown into the LWB role, at least. Clearly we need more.
Dobson is a single player that is actually being played sure.
Lavelle is fine again but I don't particularly feel like he's 'improved' under Jackson.
We have been awful since November. I couldn't point to a single 'performance' since then that wasn't turgid. Even our wins we have looked like a bunch of players thrown together with zero plan or teamwork. We haven't looked like a good side at all.0 -
Enough to allow him to be manager next season.oohaahmortimer said:Jacko’s Points per game 40/27
would currently put us on 59 points which is joint 10th
and a season ending total of 68
Give him a decent budget NOW and see where we are(hello @seriously_red) in November.1 -
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The question that needs to be asked. Is the squad Jackson has at his disposal worse than 14 other squads. I doubt it is.2
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Last season I recall the only two decent performances were the second half at home to Wimbledon, and the Plymouth away game.
This season it’s been Plymouth, Rotherham, Ipswich at home, and Portsmouth away.
Decent performances have been few and far between for a long time
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If it’s about the 10th best squad do you sack him for that? We’ve got quite a few players who are good on paper but won’t be at a promotion chasing L1 club next season.ShootersHillGuru said:The question that needs to be asked. Is the squad Jackson has at his disposal worse than 14 other squads. I doubt it is.2 -
If it’s the tenth then he’s under achieving ? I’d question your assessment of tenth anyway. Where’s that come from ? It might well be 15th in which case JJ is bang on the money or 20th in which case he’s doing very well.Scoham said:
If it’s about the 10th best squad do you sack him for that? We’ve got quite a few players who are good on paper but won’t be at a promotion chasing L1 club next season.ShootersHillGuru said:The question that needs to be asked. Is the squad Jackson has at his disposal worse than 14 other squads. I doubt it is.0 -
JJ has been part of the set up for a while but we are playing in such a different way now that I think it’s unfair to judge him on the results achieved under Adkins, for example.ShootersHillGuru said:The question that needs to be asked. Is the squad Jackson has at his disposal worse than 14 other squads. I doubt it is.
We had 9 points from 13 when he took over. We have gained 40 points from 27 since.No-one knows where we’d be in the table now if JJ had had this squad since the beginning of the season.
However, if we had had 40 points from the opening 27 games (Fleetwood (H) was our 27th), that would be good enough for 8th. Level on points with Sheff Wed.
With that in mind, “is the squad Jackson has at his disposal worse than 7 other squads?” is perhaps a fairer question.1 -
I thought you were suggesting the squad should be higher up but as most would agree it’s not a top 6+ squad then it can’t be much better than about 10th. It’s not as strong as last season’s squad which was on the fringes of the playoffs.ShootersHillGuru said:
If it’s the tenth then he’s under achieving ? I’d question your assessment of tenth anyway. Where’s that come from ? It might well be 15th in which case JJ is bang on the money or 20th in which case he’s doing very well.Scoham said:
If it’s about the 10th best squad do you sack him for that? We’ve got quite a few players who are good on paper but won’t be at a promotion chasing L1 club next season.ShootersHillGuru said:The question that needs to be asked. Is the squad Jackson has at his disposal worse than 14 other squads. I doubt it is.
Whether we finish 10th or 15th makes little difference so for me it’s not a case of a top half finish keeps him his job and a bottom half finish means he should go.0
