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Give Jacko The Job (He got given it on page 31...)
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See the average position map below. They were our most forward thinking players outside of the two strikers… (and Lee who got five minutes).FAVADDICK said:
He plays him as a defensive wing back when his a attacking winger, when you play 4 at the back you normally play a left back right back and 2 centre backs but no Jackson plays 3 cbs which 1 is a left back 1 is a centre mid and the other a cb, CBT and LEKO are both attacking wingers not defendersCallumcafc said:
It’s not a true five at the back though. This is the thing with formations... they can look very different depending on the personnel. Do you consider Blackett-Taylor to be a defensive player or an attacking player?FAVADDICK said:
OK wrong sideCallumcafc said:
Leko played on the right wing. He didn’t spend any time on the left.FAVADDICK said:
Please tell me how it isn't, did we change formation when we went down to 10, who brought leko on at lwb all jackoCallumcafc said:Today’s loss is not on Jacko.
The set-up was good enough. We fashioned 18 shots and scored only once.
Re: formation, why was a change needed? We were fine as it was. The plan was always to bring JFC on for 30 minutes. Bring him on earlier and you risk injuring him again.
Change was needed we was down to 10 men and losing and still playing 5 at the back really doesn't take a genius to work that out
Did you want us to take off one of our four defenders and go to three?
We spent most of the second half playing three at the back. Lavelle was the centre back, Clare played the right back role and Purrington left back. Formations are fluid.
If Leko and CBT were meant to be playing defensively, they were both horribly out of position.
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Sadly and hope to be wrong, but I just don’t have the faith in JJ building us a promotion challenging side. I think we need a clean slate throughout. If he plans on recruiting to a set system and stays stubborn with that I think we could be stuffed for another season, I don’t see the point in wasting the start of a season again especially as Jacko was part of this failure. I don’t really want to see the crowd getting stuck into JJ like they did Adkins as I found that a bit uncomfortable and a bit unnecessary. So part of me feels it’s best to call it quits. There is obviously no certainty he will or won’t be successful in the same way if someone else took over, however I almost feel like I’d rather see that someone else fail if it is to happen. Either way this season hasn’t been remotely good enough and I blame the players mostly for that, hence my reason for a right royal clear out.3
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I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
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But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.2 -
I thought his post match interview was really illuminating.
He just looked and sounded a beaten man. There was no enthusiasm or sparkle in his voice, he just looked completely brow beaten. The exact opposite of when he was a player.
I know these are difficult times for him but he really doesn't look or sound like he is enjoying being a manager. And if he is finding it hard to motivate himself, he's got no chance with the current bunch of wasters he has been landed with.
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If other mid table teams are very fluid and inventive then they must be weak in other areas, otherwise they wouldn't be mid table.FishCostaFortune said:
But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.
While we're nowhere near where we need to be next season I don't agree we were that poor going forward, today we had enough shots to win the game. Our wide centre backs get forward and support attacks, CBT is a real threat, Washington makes good runs off the ball, JFC did well in his first game back. We looked to play out from the back, we've been far more direct in other games this season. We were down to 10 men for much of the game, it was never going to be our best performance. There's more to come from Fraser too while he continues to settle in and get fitter after having Covid.
I see potential in the system we're playing but we need more quality. We have two good not great strikers. The likes of Gilbey, Matthews and Purrington have their limitations and are never going regularly produce free flowing, creative football regardless of how good the coaching is. If we get in better players who are suited to the set up it'll make a big difference.3 -
It’s ok having the players to play a system well, however when the system is found out and not working and the manager refuses to change it, that’s a coaching problem. We just need better players overall, that don’t play better just because of the system, good players can play any system and a lot of them (not all) any position. We don’t have enough of them better players. Jacko really needs to be flexible and realise when change of formation is the way, a plan B if you like.IMO he hasn’t got plan A right yet.🤷🏻♂️Scoham said:
If other mid table teams are very fluid and inventive then they must be weak in other areas, otherwise they wouldn't be mid table.FishCostaFortune said:
But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.
While we're nowhere near where we need to be next season I don't agree we were that poor going forward, today we had enough shots to win the game. Our wide centre backs get forward and support attacks, CBT is a real threat, Washington makes good runs off the ball, JFC did well in his first game back. We looked to play out from the back, we've been far more direct in other games this season. We were down to 10 men for much of the game, it was never going to be our best performance. There's more to come from Fraser too while he continues to settle in and get fitter after having Covid.
I see potential in the system we're playing but we need more quality. We have two good not great strikers. The likes of Gilbey, Matthews and Purrington have their limitations and are never going regularly produce free flowing, creative football regardless of how good the coaching is. If we get in better players who are suited to the set up it'll make a big difference.0 -
With this squad we won't consistently win games with any system. He's not changing it because he knows that so is sticking with it for the longer term benefit, e.g. giving players more games to adapt to it and seeing if certain players are worth keeping.paulfox said:
It’s ok having the players to play a system well, however when the system is found out and not working and the manager refuses to change it, that’s a coaching problem. We just need better players overall, that don’t play better just because of the system, good players can play any system and a lot of them (not all) any position. We don’t have enough of them better players. Jacko really needs to be flexible and realise when change of formation is the way, a plan B if you like.IMO he hasn’t got plan A right yet.🤷🏻♂️Scoham said:
If other mid table teams are very fluid and inventive then they must be weak in other areas, otherwise they wouldn't be mid table.FishCostaFortune said:
But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.
While we're nowhere near where we need to be next season I don't agree we were that poor going forward, today we had enough shots to win the game. Our wide centre backs get forward and support attacks, CBT is a real threat, Washington makes good runs off the ball, JFC did well in his first game back. We looked to play out from the back, we've been far more direct in other games this season. We were down to 10 men for much of the game, it was never going to be our best performance. There's more to come from Fraser too while he continues to settle in and get fitter after having Covid.
I see potential in the system we're playing but we need more quality. We have two good not great strikers. The likes of Gilbey, Matthews and Purrington have their limitations and are never going regularly produce free flowing, creative football regardless of how good the coaching is. If we get in better players who are suited to the set up it'll make a big difference.4 -
And you’re sure about that ?Scoham said:
With this squad we won't consistently win games with any system. He's not changing it because he knows that so is sticking with it for the longer term benefit, e.g. giving players more games to adapt to it and seeing if certain players are worth keeping.paulfox said:
It’s ok having the players to play a system well, however when the system is found out and not working and the manager refuses to change it, that’s a coaching problem. We just need better players overall, that don’t play better just because of the system, good players can play any system and a lot of them (not all) any position. We don’t have enough of them better players. Jacko really needs to be flexible and realise when change of formation is the way, a plan B if you like.IMO he hasn’t got plan A right yet.🤷🏻♂️Scoham said:
If other mid table teams are very fluid and inventive then they must be weak in other areas, otherwise they wouldn't be mid table.FishCostaFortune said:
But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.
While we're nowhere near where we need to be next season I don't agree we were that poor going forward, today we had enough shots to win the game. Our wide centre backs get forward and support attacks, CBT is a real threat, Washington makes good runs off the ball, JFC did well in his first game back. We looked to play out from the back, we've been far more direct in other games this season. We were down to 10 men for much of the game, it was never going to be our best performance. There's more to come from Fraser too while he continues to settle in and get fitter after having Covid.
I see potential in the system we're playing but we need more quality. We have two good not great strikers. The likes of Gilbey, Matthews and Purrington have their limitations and are never going regularly produce free flowing, creative football regardless of how good the coaching is. If we get in better players who are suited to the set up it'll make a big difference.1 -
What happens when the system doesn’t work and all he has are players he’s moulded into said failing system because he can’t adapt himself? A hypothetical question I know, but JJ hasn’t shown us or tried anything else.Scoham said:
With this squad we won't consistently win games with any system. He's not changing it because he knows that so is sticking with it for the longer term benefit, e.g. giving players more games to adapt to it and seeing if certain players are worth keeping.paulfox said:
It’s ok having the players to play a system well, however when the system is found out and not working and the manager refuses to change it, that’s a coaching problem. We just need better players overall, that don’t play better just because of the system, good players can play any system and a lot of them (not all) any position. We don’t have enough of them better players. Jacko really needs to be flexible and realise when change of formation is the way, a plan B if you like.IMO he hasn’t got plan A right yet.🤷🏻♂️Scoham said:
If other mid table teams are very fluid and inventive then they must be weak in other areas, otherwise they wouldn't be mid table.FishCostaFortune said:
But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.
While we're nowhere near where we need to be next season I don't agree we were that poor going forward, today we had enough shots to win the game. Our wide centre backs get forward and support attacks, CBT is a real threat, Washington makes good runs off the ball, JFC did well in his first game back. We looked to play out from the back, we've been far more direct in other games this season. We were down to 10 men for much of the game, it was never going to be our best performance. There's more to come from Fraser too while he continues to settle in and get fitter after having Covid.
I see potential in the system we're playing but we need more quality. We have two good not great strikers. The likes of Gilbey, Matthews and Purrington have their limitations and are never going regularly produce free flowing, creative football regardless of how good the coaching is. If we get in better players who are suited to the set up it'll make a big difference.1 - Sponsored links:
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I still think he should get the summer. I’m not overly convinced he’s going to be able to get us up, but he deserves a chance with his squad and his recruitment over the summer0
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I'll be honest.
I'm more than a little concerned. Yes the squad isn't the best, but he's really struggling to get any sort of a tune out of them. I'm not so sure a change of playing personnel would make much difference.1 -
Rather than just sarcastically lol @Notts_Addick why don't you explain why you think a he would deserve the job next season, if we finish that low down the table?Croydon said:Finish below 14th and there is no argument to keep him. Take sentiment out of it
For me, that would be a truly embarrassing league position with a string of genuinely dreadful performances. Has any individual player improved under him?
We all want Jackson to succeed but if we finished lower than 14th with anybody else the whole fanbase would want them gone.
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Spot oncarly burn said:I'll be honest.
I'm more than a little concerned. Yes the squad isn't the best, but he's really struggling to get any sort of a tune out of them. I'm not so sure a change of playing personnel would make much difference.1 -
How many more dud seasons is Saandgard prepared to endure pouring his money down the drain. To hear him on Charlton TV the other time he seemed to be focussed on getting Category 1 status for the training ground. And barely noted the first team. Perhaps the big positives of this season are just how successful the youth coming through have been. A strong foundation for the future? Or yet more Mason Burstows, Gomez's, Doughty's, Konzas.etc flogged early?0
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Personally I am.ShootersHillGuru said:
And you’re sure about that ?Scoham said:
With this squad we won't consistently win games with any system. He's not changing it because he knows that so is sticking with it for the longer term benefit, e.g. giving players more games to adapt to it and seeing if certain players are worth keeping.paulfox said:
It’s ok having the players to play a system well, however when the system is found out and not working and the manager refuses to change it, that’s a coaching problem. We just need better players overall, that don’t play better just because of the system, good players can play any system and a lot of them (not all) any position. We don’t have enough of them better players. Jacko really needs to be flexible and realise when change of formation is the way, a plan B if you like.IMO he hasn’t got plan A right yet.🤷🏻♂️Scoham said:
If other mid table teams are very fluid and inventive then they must be weak in other areas, otherwise they wouldn't be mid table.FishCostaFortune said:
But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.
While we're nowhere near where we need to be next season I don't agree we were that poor going forward, today we had enough shots to win the game. Our wide centre backs get forward and support attacks, CBT is a real threat, Washington makes good runs off the ball, JFC did well in his first game back. We looked to play out from the back, we've been far more direct in other games this season. We were down to 10 men for much of the game, it was never going to be our best performance. There's more to come from Fraser too while he continues to settle in and get fitter after having Covid.
I see potential in the system we're playing but we need more quality. We have two good not great strikers. The likes of Gilbey, Matthews and Purrington have their limitations and are never going regularly produce free flowing, creative football regardless of how good the coaching is. If we get in better players who are suited to the set up it'll make a big difference.
Adkins tried 4-3-3 with this squad and failed spectacularly. Bowyer tried a 4-4-2 diamond with the core of this squad (with a few differences, granted) and also failed.
At some point you have to say it’s not the formation or the manager, it’s the players.
This formation has more than enough about it to win promotion with better players.I also don’t necessarily agree that the football is bad to watch, relative to the level of competition. We have four of our five defensive players joining attacks at any given time, two of three midfielders can pick a pass (no prizes for guessing the odd one out), pace on the wing from CBT and 18 shots in a match is not bad football.It’s not Brazil 1970, it’s what you would expect from average League One standard players.2 -
Jacko’s Points per game 40/27
would currently put us on 59 points which is joint 10th
and a season ending total of 68
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Problem with Jackson is he has put the cart before the horse. He thinks a specific formation is more important than a formation which suits the players.3
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I can see why he’s doing it. It’s a bold strategy, as they say.balham red said:Problem with Jackson is he has put the cart before the horse. He thinks a specific formation is more important than a formation which suits the players.
He is pinning his hopes on taking the long term approach. If you try to cater to the players we have now, most of whom we hope aren’t going to be here next year, you’re wasting time.
We can instead build an identity and a purpose behind how he wants his Charlton team to play and find the pieces to fit that identity.
If you are constantly chopping and changing based on the whims of what’s available for selection, you relatively speaking don’t have a clear plan for your backroom staff from coaching through to scouting.
I am hoping our transfer dealings will be more purposeful this summer due to Jacko knowing exactly what he wants for each position, rather than what we just went through last July which was, to be kind, a bit ‘hodgepodge’.7 -
100%, he’s not going to stick with it this season only to change it next season. It’s his system and it’s one that other teams are using successfully at this level (or variants of it). There’s little to gain this season by trying different formations other than convincing a section of the fanbase that he’s flexible.ShootersHillGuru said:
And you’re sure about that ?Scoham said:
With this squad we won't consistently win games with any system. He's not changing it because he knows that so is sticking with it for the longer term benefit, e.g. giving players more games to adapt to it and seeing if certain players are worth keeping.paulfox said:
It’s ok having the players to play a system well, however when the system is found out and not working and the manager refuses to change it, that’s a coaching problem. We just need better players overall, that don’t play better just because of the system, good players can play any system and a lot of them (not all) any position. We don’t have enough of them better players. Jacko really needs to be flexible and realise when change of formation is the way, a plan B if you like.IMO he hasn’t got plan A right yet.🤷🏻♂️Scoham said:
If other mid table teams are very fluid and inventive then they must be weak in other areas, otherwise they wouldn't be mid table.FishCostaFortune said:
But it’s not that we are mid table squad that’s the issue. It’s that we are a mid table squad who are very one dimensional, and have no fluidity or inventiveness when we get into the final third.Scoham said:I don’t understand some of the expectations on here. It’s clear to me we have a mid table squad. Perhaps that’s the difference and some think this is a seriously underachieving top 6 squad? We’ll continue being inconsistent for the rest of the season. In some ways I’m happy with that as it means there’s less chance of the likes of Matthews getting a new contract.
Other mid table squads, as well as a mid table league 2 side, and even a national league side have looked better than us, and have looked like they have more ideas than us, when going forwards.That’s a coaching issue and nothing else.
While we're nowhere near where we need to be next season I don't agree we were that poor going forward, today we had enough shots to win the game. Our wide centre backs get forward and support attacks, CBT is a real threat, Washington makes good runs off the ball, JFC did well in his first game back. We looked to play out from the back, we've been far more direct in other games this season. We were down to 10 men for much of the game, it was never going to be our best performance. There's more to come from Fraser too while he continues to settle in and get fitter after having Covid.
I see potential in the system we're playing but we need more quality. We have two good not great strikers. The likes of Gilbey, Matthews and Purrington have their limitations and are never going regularly produce free flowing, creative football regardless of how good the coaching is. If we get in better players who are suited to the set up it'll make a big difference.
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Didnt we want Robinson sacked for the same reason but now excusing it under Jackson because we like him?5
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If Jackson doesn’t know by now which players are going to be worth retaining and can play his preferred system and those that can’t then I think it’s a problem. If he’s still looking then how much longer ? I think most posters on here could tell him. I’d say he’d be wiser now to concentrate on getting a few places up the league which might just secure his position. I’m sorry to suggest that a 15th place finish might make the whole argument of him being bold and persisting with his preference of play totally academic. I can see very little in either the playing squad or coaching that fills me with confidence for next season.1
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Really difficult call.
I thought Jackson's energy, commitment and passion would be enough to propel us into the play-offs but the wheels came off the bus really quickly and no-one has really explained why.
I don't think those three recent wins convinced anyone that we were improving in any way. There is nothing confident or fluid about our play, even against the poorest teams in this league. Jackson also looks like a defeated man who has lost confidence and that is fatal in any leadership role.
There is nothing wrong with 3-5-2. It's very progressive and getting all the teams to play that way makes sense . The problem is we are playing that formation really really badly and not getting any better.
On balance, I think it might be time to hire someone who can get us out this league and give them full control of recruitment, selection and tactics. No-one wants to see Jackson getting stick.3 -
Reading the Post Dagenham thread and reads the same as this4
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No, Robinson was a year and a half into the job and we still had a chance of the playoffs - Bowyer then took over and got us there.SELR_addicks said:Didnt we want Robinson sacked for the same reason but now excusing it under Jackson because we like him?
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It's more that the players that are staying are getting more game time in his system. Purrington is getting a run at LCB as Famewo won't be coming back. CBT is continuing to adapt to LWB. Matthews may or may not be playing for a contract.ShootersHillGuru said:If Jackson doesn’t know by now which players are going to be worth retaining and can play his preferred system and those that can’t then I think it’s a problem. If he’s still looking then how much longer ? I think most posters on here could tell him. I’d say he’d be wiser now to concentrate on getting a few places up the league which might just secure his position. I’m sorry to suggest that a 15th place finish might make the whole argument of him being bold and persisting with his preference of play totally academic. I can see very little in either the playing squad or coaching that fills me with confidence for next season.
I don't believe his job is under threat as ultimately finishing 12th or 15th makes no material difference to our summer plans. Sticking with him is a gamble but no more than replacing him - we've seen that experienced managers don't guarantee success.
We criticized RD for constantly sacking managers, we won't get anywhere if we go back to doing that. We might make progress if we give a manager time to rebuild.1 -
Ah, those were the days…..Rothko said:0 -
I'd give Jacko the summer and 15 games. If we're not in the top 6 after that, he's got to go. But bring in someone who plays the same formation, so we're not putting square pegs in round holes again.0
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That’s true but I think you need to see something from the incumbent to give confidence that given time they will put things right. I’m afraid I don’t see anything to suggest that. Nothing. After an initial flurry the performances have been wholly dire and there’s been no sign of improvement from my perspective. I expect JJ to get a run at next season and no one will be happier than me if he gets things right. My current thoughts are that it’s looking unlikely.Scoham said:
It's more that the players that are staying are getting more game time in his system. Purrington is getting a run at LCB as Famewo won't be coming back. CBT is continuing to adapt to LWB. Matthews may or may not be playing for a contract.ShootersHillGuru said:If Jackson doesn’t know by now which players are going to be worth retaining and can play his preferred system and those that can’t then I think it’s a problem. If he’s still looking then how much longer ? I think most posters on here could tell him. I’d say he’d be wiser now to concentrate on getting a few places up the league which might just secure his position. I’m sorry to suggest that a 15th place finish might make the whole argument of him being bold and persisting with his preference of play totally academic. I can see very little in either the playing squad or coaching that fills me with confidence for next season.
I don't believe his job is under threat as ultimately finishing 12th or 15th makes no material difference to our summer plans. Sticking with him is a gamble but no more than replacing him - we've seen that experienced managers don't guarantee success.
We criticized RD for constantly sacking managers, we won't get anywhere if we go back to doing that. We might make progress if we give a manager time to rebuild.1
