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POST-MATCH THREAD: PORT VALE V CHARLTON ATHLETIC / SATURDAY 19th NOVEMBER 2022 3.00pm KO
Comments
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I’d play Chuks from the off , know he won’t last but maybe we can get ahead and lift spirits. Otherwise it’s just pot luck.1
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Don’t let it bounce , standard Sunday league shout was what Dobbo needed yesterday for their goal , still he has plenty (of credit) in the tank0
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Whatever Garner thinks of Port Vale, their system is more effective than his. They have won more games than him so far this season with far less resources / wage budget.LouisMend said:
He just sounds very bitter that they always tend to get the better of him. Port Vale won at the county ground last season & knocked Garner’s Swindon side out of the playoffs back in May.11 -
Garner is the problem for me. His style of playing is boring. No flair. And, in all areas we’ve been going backwards. And, he is just so averse to making changes. It was painfully obvious today that things needed to change at half time but he didn’t do it. It was crying out for Aneke and JFC and by the time he did bring them on we were 1-0 down and chasing the game.,Game after game he follows the same pattern and in general we play badly. Let’s face it we were lucky against both Ipswich and Burton to get any points. I’ve said it before that we could very well end up in a relegation scrap with him in charge and I still feel that will be the case. Sandgaard hasn’t backed him like all of us and evidently Garner wanted but let’s not disguise the fact that Garner has not done a good job so far and it is getting worse.
I’ve never felt as bad about a Charlton team. What with Sandgaard and Garner I feel our club has been hijacked. This isn’t the Charlton that I’ve loved for so many years.3 -
I think there is a time to say it. When you, your club and it's supporters have been let down for the umpteenth time by the players who earn a good living but are being out-fought and out-thought by another side who aren't collective as talented as yours and probably earning a good bit less money. The message is clear - you are good enough and the consequences obvious - some of you will be going. He is looking for a reaction and we need one.ct_addick said:Stupid comments from Garner…he’s just lost the dressing room. You’ve basically told the players they are not good enough. We all know that but to say it in public is out of order. Reminds me of Bowyer at the end. Tactics were not right on a shitty pitch. I bought a Charlton TV season pass for 200 quid….waste of money. Feel sorry for the fans that travelled. I’m done0 -
IF we had won yesterday, we would have three points off sixth and still in three Cup competitions. There would have been zero complaints about Garner. I don't think he's any great shakes either but he isn't the problem so far. He's been given poor support from the penny-pinching owner and his side lacks leaders and winners. The players let him down yesterday.Rob said:Garner is the problem for me. His style of playing is boring. No flair. And, in all areas we’ve been going backwards. And, he is just so averse to making changes. It was painfully obvious today that things needed to change at half time but he didn’t do it. It was crying out for Aneke and JFC and by the time he did bring them on we were 1-0 down and chasing the game.,Game after game he follows the same pattern and in general we play badly. Let’s face it we were lucky against both Ipswich and Burton to get any points. I’ve said it before that we could very well end up in a relegation scrap with him in charge and I still feel that will be the case. Sandgaard hasn’t backed him like all of us and evidently Garner wanted but let’s not disguise the fact that Garner has not done a good job so far and it is getting worse.
I’ve never felt as bad about a Charlton team. What with Sandgaard and Garner I feel our club has been hijacked. This isn’t the Charlton that I’ve loved for so many years.21 -
My biggest concern around Adkins is not so much the style of football but rather why our players look so knackered. Despite having a week without any matches between games, even in the first half most of our players seemed to be blowing.4
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A proper lol performance highlights were the beers before, £100 before I’d had a pint away games now will be
derby
Bristol rovers
Cheltenham
purely to get the ticks
Players ain’t good enough - time for the guitar botherer to depart0 -
Not sure we can blame Adkins Tbfse9addick said:My biggest concern around Adkins is not so much the style of football but rather why our players look so knackered. Despite having a week without any matches between games, even in the first half most of our players seemed to be blowing.13 -
I went yesterday - dreadful - like their ground though
What on earth was going on outside the ground afterwards, Police everywhere, and scuffling with fans (mainly Charlton ones from what I can make out) ???0 -
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What was the agg all about , was it Charlton fan’s anger after that crap that Glad all fucking over was being played , over zealous old bill, local northern Herbert’s on the wind up … all of the aboveLordflashheart said:I went yesterday - dreadful - like their ground though
What on earth was going on outside the ground afterwards, Police everywhere, and scuffling with fans (mainly Charlton ones from what I can make out) ???0 -
oohaahmortimer said:
What was the agg all about , was it Charlton fan’s anger after that crap that Glad all fucking over was being played , over zealous old bill, local northern Herbert’s on the wind up … all of the aboveLordflashheart said:I went yesterday - dreadful - like their ground though
What on earth was going on outside the ground afterwards, Police everywhere, and scuffling with fans (mainly Charlton ones from what I can make out) ???What I saw as I left the ground was pissed off Charlton fans rather than pissed up - the police were very heavy handed (and there were lots of them) - almost like they were hoping for aggro.My missus was two miles away in the car waiting for me and my eldest and our anger had just about gone by the time we had walked that two miles. Didn't see any trouble at all as we walked away.2 -
Interesting thread to read through. I’ve not posted on football matters for a bit. My own tuppence worth on the various issues that are floating around are as follows and (to be topical) in no particular order:
1. Ben has clearly been taken for a ride by TS. He is repeating what has been obvious to us all for some time.
2. Whether he is wise to be saying so at such length and with such vitriol is questionable and depends on his motive. If he is trying to nudge the owner towards a spending spree he is a poor reader of the room. If he is preparing the ground for his own exit he’s doing a grand job although sullying his reputation a little in trying to preserve it (i.e. coming across as a whining little shit). Either way if I was a player at the moment I’d be rocking up to training tomorrow with a bit of a chip on my shoulder.3. McGrandles was clearly signed when it was believed that JFC and Dobson would be leaving alongside Gilbey. It is beyond belief that the first two are still here until we realise that beyond these walls JFC is probably regarded as a risky crock and we see a lot in Dobbo that I suspect outsiders don’t (in plain language I believe that we overrate him as he has been a standout in a team of duffers). All of that said, unlike some of our signings McShambles came with a pedigree (I had actually heard of him!) but he has disappointed massively.4. Are we better off than last season despite the league tabe suggesting otherwise? Yes and no. Despite being a legend and a good guy, I sadly doubt that Jacko has a sterling managerial career before him. Just don’t think he’s cut out for it. When we have our first choice 11 on the field we are easier on the eye than last year. Garnerball has had its moments although whether it’s a system that deserves it’s own name is pretty debatable. He’s not the messiah folks. We’re seeing pretty much what Swindon fans warned us we would get. I’m not convinced by him but I’m reserving judgement until (even though it looking increasingly unlikely) he gets a fairer crack of the whip from the owner. As for the squad, I detested last year’s group. We pretty much got the night of the long knives that we wanted and this year’s intake seem on the whole like a better bunch of guys. But as someone said, the litmus test is assembling a squad that could cut it in the league above and I do not see a single one that could unquestionably meet that standard next season. There are a few that might but they are loanees (JRS and Sess). The rest (and I’m afraid I’m including gorgeous George and Fraser in this) are, at best, middle ranking league 1 players which, funnily enough, is where we find ourselves. Only TS, MS and Gallen can answer for why we have a squad with such glaring deficiencies. We have two senior centre forwards who are both crocks, (albeit using two very different definitions of “crock” respectively), a glaring hole at left back, a reliance on flatter to deceive merchants like Kirk and CBT and two senior goalies who appear to both lack something.5. What is it with us and injuries? There’s bad luck and then there’s the volume and frequency that we seem to get season after season. Are we cursed? (don’t believe in that shite myself). Are our training methods/pitch/medical staff questionable? (Too many professionals would need to be doing something wrong for that to hold much water). Do we consistently find ourselves in a market where we are buying on the cheap players who are cheap for a reason? Yep. Probably that one gov.6. We are already in nowhere land this season and it’s only November. I doubt we’ll be relegated (there really is some shite in this league although we seem incapable of beating it!) and the play offs will be out of reach if we get another couple of inevitable injuries and/or we get an owner//manager meltdown. For those hoping for a January spending spree I can only say that Santa doesn’t exist (sorry children!).7. A number of lifelong fans are making “that’s it for me” noises on social media. A bit too “drama-queen” for me. You never give up on your club for real. But apathy is a bigger menace than anger and we are in danger of becoming gradually worn down. There isn’t the outraged anger against Sandgaard that there was against Duchatelet. I think we all believe that Tommy boy will be gone soon and he just isn’t that detestable. But year after year of league 1 mediocrity and the gradual demolition of the fabric of our club is taking its toll. Add to that the marketing strategy that only this week has seen the twin highlights of a “buy seven get none free” campaign and a Black Friday sale of our kit manufacturer’s stuff that features absolutely nothing of relevance to Charlton (and still at bonkers prices). You can’t make this stuff up you really can’t.There. I’ve got that lot off my mind. COYR.27 -
Lordflashheart said:I went yesterday - dreadful - like their ground though
What on earth was going on outside the ground afterwards, Police everywhere, and scuffling with fans (mainly Charlton ones from what I can make out) ???
https://youtu.be/03l-FNor37s
Clues maybe around 8mins45 in what is a decent video from a villa vlogger in our end.4 -
My take on yesterday is that we lost after underperforming.0
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Nice video, one thing is very noticable about 3.20, def a handball as claimed by a few players, the guy does move his hand to ball, so got done there..swords_alive said:Lordflashheart said:I went yesterday - dreadful - like their ground though
What on earth was going on outside the ground afterwards, Police everywhere, and scuffling with fans (mainly Charlton ones from what I can make out) ???https://youtu.be/03l-FNor37s
Clues maybe around 8mins45 in what is a decent video from a villa vlogger in our end.0 -
Cardinal Sin said:
IF we had won yesterday, we would have three points off sixth and still in three Cup competitions. There would have been zero complaints about Garner. I don't think he's any great shakes either but he isn't the problem so far. He's been given poor support from the penny-pinching owner and his side lacks leaders and winners. The players let him down yesterday.Rob said:Garner is the problem for me. His style of playing is boring. No flair. And, in all areas we’ve been going backwards. And, he is just so averse to making changes. It was painfully obvious today that things needed to change at half time but he didn’t do it. It was crying out for Aneke and JFC and by the time he did bring them on we were 1-0 down and chasing the game.,Game after game he follows the same pattern and in general we play badly. Let’s face it we were lucky against both Ipswich and Burton to get any points. I’ve said it before that we could very well end up in a relegation scrap with him in charge and I still feel that will be the case. Sandgaard hasn’t backed him like all of us and evidently Garner wanted but let’s not disguise the fact that Garner has not done a good job so far and it is getting worse.
I’ve never felt as bad about a Charlton team. What with Sandgaard and Garner I feel our club has been hijacked. This isn’t the Charlton that I’ve loved for so many years.
Stockley without a goal scorer to play off him is not worth being on the team sheet. Stockley without wingers to provide crosses to him is not worth being on the team sheet. The loss of Washington was down to TS. That there was no replacement for Washington was down to TS. Playing without wingers who can cross a ball is down to what players are in the squad, that squad in the main was put together before Garner got here and there is little chance that the problems, that Garner inherited, will change and that is down to TS.Cardinal Sin said:
IF we had won yesterday, we would have three points off sixth and still in three Cup competitions. There would have been zero complaints about Garner. I don't think he's any great shakes either but he isn't the problem so far. He's been given poor support from the penny-pinching owner and his side lacks leaders and winners. The players let him down yesterday.Rob said:Garner is the problem for me. His style of playing is boring. No flair. And, in all areas we’ve been going backwards. And, he is just so averse to making changes. It was painfully obvious today that things needed to change at half time but he didn’t do it. It was crying out for Aneke and JFC and by the time he did bring them on we were 1-0 down and chasing the game.,Game after game he follows the same pattern and in general we play badly. Let’s face it we were lucky against both Ipswich and Burton to get any points. I’ve said it before that we could very well end up in a relegation scrap with him in charge and I still feel that will be the case. Sandgaard hasn’t backed him like all of us and evidently Garner wanted but let’s not disguise the fact that Garner has not done a good job so far and it is getting worse.
I’ve never felt as bad about a Charlton team. What with Sandgaard and Garner I feel our club has been hijacked. This isn’t the Charlton that I’ve loved for so many years.2 -
With shift work and other commitments that was only my third match I’ve managed to watch, one at The Valley and two via the stream. This was my first weekend off in two months and I thought I’d enjoy an afternoon watching Charlton. How wrong was I. That was a horrible performance utterly devoid of any fight or passion. If we’re going to lose, at least put a shift in and fight. One shot in the 89th minute. Pathetic. There was no intent, drive or bravery.I keep reading posts about Stockley’s performances but couldn’t comment myself as I’ve not seen the team play much this season. He was totally ineffective. Every time he lost a decision or something didn’t go his way he’d throw his hands in the air and shout and moan. Another poor player is Lavelle. He needs to be dropped and replaced by either Elerwere, or recall Ness, who I thought looked quite good in some of the games I’ve seen him in. Lavelle doesn’t seem to possess any of the attributes needed in a centre half. I can’t understand how our manager can’t see what the supporters keep saying in Stockley and Lavelle.I don’t know the internal wranglings at Charlton. This is only my opinion. Sandgaard is slowly killing this club. He seemed to be in and around the club and ever present on social media at the start of his reign. Now he has gone quiet and disinterested. His ego has taken a hit as he doesn’t like the criticism and doesn’t recognise his way is the wrong way. Everything else behind the scenes with getting rid of experience staff and stalwarts of running Charlton smacks of poor and potentially aggressive mismanagement. The sooner he sells the better. I just hope he has the decency to find someone who has the clubs best interests at heart rather than just offload it to another in a long line of poor owners we’ve had.6
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I think saying the squad isn't good enough is different to saying the players aren't good enough.Off_it said:
Yep, absolutely.SELR_addicks said:
Wonder if you had these same opinions when Bowyer used to slag off the team week-in and week-out during a bad run?Off_it said:
Of course it does.blackpool72 said:
Behave.Off_it said:Thing is Benny boy, WE expected different from YOU when you joined the club as well.
So just get on with doing your job and stop whining like a child.
He's been shafted by banjo boy.
The buck stops with Sandgaard
But if you're the manager you have those conversations in private and/or with the owner, not with the press.
As it is we've now got him openly saying "the team isn't good enough and this isn't what I was told or expecting" (so I'm not happy). So how's that going to get a result in the next game?
When you're a manager - in any field - you don't go moaning to your staff or your customers that life is shit. You just don't. They can think that if they want, but it's your job to manage the situation as best as you can. That's the first 10 minutes of any management course in any field.
But saying the team put in an unacceptable performance is one thing, saying the squad isn't good enough is quite another. Effectively saying, to the press, the owner has over-promised and let you down is a whole different ball park.0 -
I know this is a radical notion but perhaps we ought to think about buying a striker that can both score goals and cause problems for defenders instead of our current number 9.MuttleyCAFC said:Garner is right though anout the issue. The most effective way to play against us is to get numbers behind the ball. It is perfectly fair though, we have to find the solutuion to the problem.5 -
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Aren't we just 1 point better off than we were at this point last season? Garner has given us only a handful of good performances, the rest have been awful - exactly the same as Jackson.SELR_addicks said:
Lets get Gunter, Matthews and Gilbey back!shirty5 said:Are we any better off than this time 12 months ago? League position is exactly the same now as it was then as is the points total (Plus one extra this season)
I’ve lost track on how many comments Garner has made re budgets, recruitment etc. It won’t make the blindest bit of difference. You have had the wool
pulled over your eyes like the rest of us, so it’s either case of jacking it in or trying to make the best of what you have available to you.
Maybe he did Jackson a favour, the owner
Jackson is currently in a midtable League Two side with the likes of Gunter and Davison.
We played pub football last season, no thank you to round two of that stuff.
Both pretty limited managers in my opinion.3 -
What would constitute 'flair'? With these players? Kirk as a free-role 10 and two wingers not flair enough for you? Honestly. And Aneke was all warmed up and about to come on when they scored, we hadn't been 'chasing the game'Rob said:Garner is the problem for me. His style of playing is boring. No flair. And, in all areas we’ve been going backwards. And, he is just so averse to making changes. It was painfully obvious today that things needed to change at half time but he didn’t do it. It was crying out for Aneke and JFC and by the time he did bring them on we were 1-0 down and chasing the game.,Game after game he follows the same pattern and in general we play badly. Let’s face it we were lucky against both Ipswich and Burton to get any points. I’ve said it before that we could very well end up in a relegation scrap with him in charge and I still feel that will be the case. Sandgaard hasn’t backed him like all of us and evidently Garner wanted but let’s not disguise the fact that Garner has not done a good job so far and it is getting worse.
I’ve never felt as bad about a Charlton team. What with Sandgaard and Garner I feel our club has been hijacked. This isn’t the Charlton that I’ve loved for so many years.0 -
Found out why we were shite yesterday, 19th November was "World Toilet Day"...
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That was dreadful. What is Garnerball exactly? Pass it around the back before losing it in midfield?
He can’t even get a 4-4-2 right.4 -
Jackson had a bigger squad budget.Croydon said:
Aren't we just 1 point better off than we were at this point last season? Garner has given us only a handful of good performances, the rest have been awful - exactly the same as Jackson.SELR_addicks said:
Lets get Gunter, Matthews and Gilbey back!shirty5 said:Are we any better off than this time 12 months ago? League position is exactly the same now as it was then as is the points total (Plus one extra this season)
I’ve lost track on how many comments Garner has made re budgets, recruitment etc. It won’t make the blindest bit of difference. You have had the wool
pulled over your eyes like the rest of us, so it’s either case of jacking it in or trying to make the best of what you have available to you.
Maybe he did Jackson a favour, the owner
Jackson is currently in a midtable League Two side with the likes of Gunter and Davison.
We played pub football last season, no thank you to round two of that stuff.
Both pretty limited managers in my opinion.
And more of 'his' signings.3 -
Makes it sound like 442 is a simple, basic, formation that every player is comfortable with.The Red Robin said:That was dreadful. What is Garnerball exactly? Pass it around the back before losing it it midfield?
He can’t even get a 4-4-2 right.
I am willing to bet that until about 6 weeks ago half our starting 11 had ever played 442 professionally. I strongly suspect JRS and CBT have ever played wide in a midfield 4, Clare has hardly ever played as a full back in it. Dobson certainly wouldn't have played it in his academy career, the same is probably true for Inniss, Sessegnon and Tupac. By Garner's own admission Kirk hadn't played in that position in his whole life.
I really don't understand why people assume, in 2022, that 442 is a default players are naturally comfortable with. Mike Bassett was a dinosaur, over 20 years ago.2 -
At times its like our lot go to a different game.bobmunro said:oohaahmortimer said:
What was the agg all about , was it Charlton fan’s anger after that crap that Glad all fucking over was being played , over zealous old bill, local northern Herbert’s on the wind up … all of the aboveLordflashheart said:I went yesterday - dreadful - like their ground though
What on earth was going on outside the ground afterwards, Police everywhere, and scuffling with fans (mainly Charlton ones from what I can make out) ???What I saw as I left the ground was pissed off Charlton fans rather than pissed up - the police were very heavy handed (and there were lots of them) - almost like they were hoping for aggro.My missus was two miles away in the car waiting for me and my eldest and our anger had just about gone by the time we had walked that two miles. Didn't see any trouble at all as we walked away.
The old bill were quite pleasant outside when we left on 84minutes.
Wished us on our way , pointed us in the direction we might be able to pick a cab up aswell.
Luckily enough cab there and was able to get the 17.13 back to London.
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You can see why he has a reputation for moaning.The Prince-e-Paul said:
Come on, we all know that Leaburn will return from injury on 28th Jan, tear Bolton new one and by the time we visit Exeter the following Saturday we'll all be saying, "It's project break-even, inevitable, but why couldnt we sell Stockley instead? "Cardinal Sin said:
100%. Hoping Leaburn is still injured so we have a chance of seeing him second-half of the season.cabbles said:Re: investment in Jan, it’ll be take whatever someone offers for Leaburn and a couple of loans
Vale fans view of Garner is quite funny, but true....
https://www.onevalefan.co.uk/2022/11/league-one-manager-in-danger-of-the-sack-moans-about-port-vale-again/0 -
I have to agree with Ben on one point though..killerandflash said:
You can see why he has a reputation for moaning.The Prince-e-Paul said:
Come on, we all know that Leaburn will return from injury on 28th Jan, tear Bolton new one and by the time we visit Exeter the following Saturday we'll all be saying, "It's project break-even, inevitable, but why couldnt we sell Stockley instead? "Cardinal Sin said:
100%. Hoping Leaburn is still injured so we have a chance of seeing him second-half of the season.cabbles said:Re: investment in Jan, it’ll be take whatever someone offers for Leaburn and a couple of loans
Vale fans view of Garner is quite funny, but true....
https://www.onevalefan.co.uk/2022/11/league-one-manager-in-danger-of-the-sack-moans-about-port-vale-again/
"They just set out to stop you playing. There’s no ambition for them to go and attack and take the game to you. They’re at home today and their whole ambition was to sit and stop us. Make it a dull game and try and nick it 1-0, which they did"...
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So their plan worked and we played right into it and to be fair many teams have done the same. Perhaps we can try something different an not be so bloody predictable.eastterrace6168 said:
I have to agree with Ben on one point though..killerandflash said:
You can see why he has a reputation for moaning.The Prince-e-Paul said:
Come on, we all know that Leaburn will return from injury on 28th Jan, tear Bolton new one and by the time we visit Exeter the following Saturday we'll all be saying, "It's project break-even, inevitable, but why couldnt we sell Stockley instead? "Cardinal Sin said:
100%. Hoping Leaburn is still injured so we have a chance of seeing him second-half of the season.cabbles said:Re: investment in Jan, it’ll be take whatever someone offers for Leaburn and a couple of loans
Vale fans view of Garner is quite funny, but true....
https://www.onevalefan.co.uk/2022/11/league-one-manager-in-danger-of-the-sack-moans-about-port-vale-again/
"They just set out to stop you playing. There’s no ambition for them to go and attack and take the game to you. They’re at home today and their whole ambition was to sit and stop us. Make it a dull game and try and nick it 1-0, which they did"...7
