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That Titanic submersible
Comments
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cafcnick1992 said:
Well I suspect it blew up 4 days ago. I'd be interested in knowing how many dives that craft had been on and whether the body had just fatigued from the pressure stress after multiple dives.sam3110 said:3 things happened
1) it's on the surface and bobbing about in need of finding
2) it got lodged deep down and the people onboard have now suffocated
3) the pressure got too much after that amount of time under water and the entire thing imploded and is now scattered across the seabed near The Titanic
More than likely it's number 3 from the most up to date reports0 -
Apparently, it was this particular Subs 4th Dive after 1 in each of the past 3 years. This was OceonGate's 3rd vessel they'd built and this was the largest as it was capable taking 5 passengers.
Such a sad story despite their enormous wealth. They were all still someone's family member.
I must say, like a lot on here, the moment that final bolt was tightened I'd have been screaming and flipping out and would have to get out. Baffles my why anyone would want to do it but each their own. R.I.P to all 5 and love to their families.0 -
five preventable deaths .. even so, surely better to die suddenly through drowning/water pressure than slowly suffocating trapped inside a very confined space .. R I P .. and may the money scrimping unsavoury 'entrepreneur' behind the 'Titanic tourist trips' be prosecuted to the full extent of the law1
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If you mean the CEO behind the company, as far as I am aware he was the "pilot" of the craft.Lincsaddick said:five preventable deaths .. even so, surely better to die suddenly through drowning/water pressure than slowly suffocating trapped inside a very confined space .. R I P .. and may the money scrimping unsavoury 'entrepreneur' behind the 'Titanic tourist trips' be prosecuted to the full extent of the law
It's one of those occasions when we come to realise the value of regulations and standards, and slightly ironic that it was at the site of a previous disaster with led to major improvements in maritime safety.1 -
Exactly - imagine if they released this and focused the attention at the point and it wasn't the sub. Then the sub located a couple of miles away with notes from the passengers saying 'day 3, we still hold out hope of being found...'Jessie said:
I don't think that's weird. They just "suspected" it was the sound of an explosion. They weren't sure. Now that the debris has been found near the sound of explosion, they can be sure about their earlier suspicions.ValleyGary said:
Doesn’t make sense to just openly release that info now with the backlash that will follow. All very weird.sam3110 said:
To give false hope to families and shareholders etc it seems, for some bizarre reasonValleyGary said:If they knew that why they flying specialist technology in from miles away at ridiculous costs?1 -
According to James Cameron, he said the info was shared right away, just not to the public. The sound on it's own wouldn't be conclusive even if it indicated what might have happened. I'd imagine that the authorities had a good idea what happened, but it was still spun into a drama until is was conclusively known what had happened.0
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I just can’t understand the engineering decisions made, unless he surrounded himself with yes-men, I know there’s the one guy who was sacked but I can’t understand how anybody would have not spoken up considering the design decisions.
if I’d have been in that design review I’d have offered my resignation on the spot!0 -
He was .. there was/is also a co-founder of the company, but it seems he has left the organisation .. there are also a few 'money men' behind the founders .. I suppose they are free from blame as they had no control over how the business was run or how the craft were constructedNornIrishAddick said:
If you mean the CEO behind the company, as far as I am aware he was the "pilot" of the craft.Lincsaddick said:five preventable deaths .. even so, surely better to die suddenly through drowning/water pressure than slowly suffocating trapped inside a very confined space .. R I P .. and may the money scrimping unsavoury 'entrepreneur' behind the 'Titanic tourist trips' be prosecuted to the full extent of the law
It's one of those occasions when we come to realise the value of regulations and standards, and slightly ironic that it was at the site of a previous disaster with led to major improvements in maritime safety.0 -
But maybe they took a calculated risk as several previous dives had completed successfully.Hal1x said:
He promoted a service that had high risk, using unsafe equipment, no one said he dragged anyone along, but it was his actions and his submarine that caused others to die.Carter said:
No way did he drag anyone with him. I cant pretend to be an expert on all things submersible but I do know there is a reason human ghoulish interest hasn't seen people raiding the wreck of the titanic and if someone offered me the opportunity to go in a craft that could take me down there, I would absolutely, definitely decline. The thought of being that deep under the ocean or underground makes me feel physically sick. I know the deeper you go in the ocean the greater the pressure on you and the vessel you are in, I know submarines do not dive to anything like that depth because they would be crushed by the pressure. The people on the boat didn't have knives held to their throat, they wanted the experience of seeing the wreck possibly the most famous shipwreck in history.Hal1x said:
Its all well and good "daring to be different", more questionable when your actions take four others with you. Balls of steel, or reckless maniac?Carter said:There is no difference, they are both mad bastards walking the walk. The balls on the man with the xbox controller and the tin can getting in that thing and daring to be different.
Elon Musk is doing his thing but anyone who does something for the first time deserves respect, the insane self-confidence and belief they need not to mention a colossal amount of engineering capability and a dream to dare.
Anyone can say he should have done this or that but we are all experts after the event.
Rest in peace all of them, and the legend who has been lost trying to swim the channel. All pioneers with balls of steelIt seems like the implosion occurred because of a build up of stress on the structure from previous dives. The CEO did know this risk and who knows if he actually conveyed that message to the passengers.0 -
The CEO (RIP) was criminally reckless in his attitude to safety. Ignored expert advice and disregarded all warnings.1
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Reckless!!0
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Rob said:Hal1x said:
He promoted a service that had high risk, using unsafe equipment, no one said he dragged anyone along, but it was his actions and his submarine that caused others to die.Carter said:
No way did he drag anyone with him. I cant pretend to be an expert on all things submersible but I do know there is a reason human ghoulish interest hasn't seen people raiding the wreck of the titanic and if someone offered me the opportunity to go in a craft that could take me down there, I would absolutely, definitely decline. The thought of being that deep under the ocean or underground makes me feel physically sick. I know the deeper you go in the ocean the greater the pressure on you and the vessel you are in, I know submarines do not dive to anything like that depth because they would be crushed by the pressure. The people on the boat didn't have knives held to their throat, they wanted the experience of seeing the wreck possibly the most famous shipwreck in history.Hal1x said:
Its all well and good "daring to be different", more questionable when your actions take four others with you. Balls of steel, or reckless maniac?Carter said:There is no difference, they are both mad bastards walking the walk. The balls on the man with the xbox controller and the tin can getting in that thing and daring to be different.
Elon Musk is doing his thing but anyone who does something for the first time deserves respect, the insane self-confidence and belief they need not to mention a colossal amount of engineering capability and a dream to dare.
Anyone can say he should have done this or that but we are all experts after the event.
Rest in peace all of them, and the legend who has been lost trying to swim the channel. All pioneers with balls of steelIt seems like the implosion occurred because of a build up of stress on the structure from previous dives. The CEO did know this risk and who knows if he actually conveyed that message to the passengers.
There’s an interview where I’ll paraphrase, “ we broke the rule book making this submersible, you’re not meant to make a sub out of carbon fibre, yeah well we did”
Alluding to what I said earlier, it’s absolute nonsense. You don’t make a sub out of carbon fibre for good reason.There’s literally only 1 reason to do so and that’s because it’s resistant to corrosion.
Carbon fibre has an absolutely amazing tensile strength, strong than steel. What it also has is extremely poor compression strength to the point where it’s not uncommon for manufacturers to not even list the compressive strength.You would NOT then decide to build a vessel designed to be subject to possibly one of the most hostile places in terms of the gargantuan compressive forces out of a material inherently weak to it.Regardless, let’s ignore that for a second. It’s also very difficult to identify stress fractures from previous dives because of the way carbon fibre is made.Add this to the fact that in terms of plastic deformation carbon fibre shows no sign of stress until the ultimate strength of the material is exceeded, whereupon carbon fiber will fail suddenly and catastrophically. The usual materials ala titanium fail slowly with visible signs and tells and may have for example given them the opportunity to see the signs and ascend.
Pure speculation on my part but the reason I’m so angry at this is it the most basic of engineering design and completely avoidable if correct procedure is followed… To me it feels as though the CEO was adamant they break the mould and use carbon fibre just because they could. and when challenged by these 50 year old white designers who saw sense, he instead chose to surround himself with yes men and took 4 other people with him for good measure after telling them it’s “no more dangerous than crossing the road” and “ there hasn’t been a civilian sub injury in over 35 years”7 -
"OceanGate has stated that the Titan completed over 50 test dives, including to depths similar to those of the Titanic, both in waters around the Bahamas as well as in a pressure chamber."Even though not all dives were to the same depths, or even in open sea, and giving them the benefit of doubt; one catastrophic failure out of fifty, ain't really a good safety record.1
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I think it’s the obvious arrogance of the CEO in flying in the face of all expert advice and opinion regarding the safety of the vessel. That’s unforgivable.Gribbo said:"OceanGate has stated that the Titan completed over 50 test dives, including to depths similar to those of the Titanic, both in waters around the Bahamas as well as in a pressure chamber."Even though not all dives were to the same depths, or even in open sea, and giving them the benefit of doubt; one catastrophic failure out of fifty, ain't really a good safety record.2 -
Obviously tragic. Now watch the american legal system go full blast. Hope the operators had good insurance - they'll need it - signed waivers or not.0
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Wasn't the pilot the owner and operator?MikeBaileysFanClub said:Obviously tragic. Now watch the american legal system go full blast. Hope the operators had good insurance - they'll need it - signed waivers or not.
Good luck suing him.0 -
Presumably it's a public company, not just a one man band.Dazzler21 said:
Wasn't the pilot the owner and operator?MikeBaileysFanClub said:Obviously tragic. Now watch the american legal system go full blast. Hope the operators had good insurance - they'll need it - signed waivers or not.
Good luck suing him.1 -
It was a company, whether it was private or public who knows.North Lower Neil said:
Presumably it's a public company, not just a one man band.Dazzler21 said:
Wasn't the pilot the owner and operator?MikeBaileysFanClub said:Obviously tragic. Now watch the american legal system go full blast. Hope the operators had good insurance - they'll need it - signed waivers or not.
Good luck suing him.0 -
Without taking away from the gravity of the situation I can't wait for James Cameron to give his opinion when someone builds a buff Austrian cyborg using ChatGPT.McBobbin said:According to James Cameron, he said the info was shared right away, just not to the public. The sound on it's own wouldn't be conclusive even if it indicated what might have happened. I'd imagine that the authorities had a good idea what happened, but it was still spun into a drama until is was conclusively known what had happened.2 - Sponsored links:
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Privately ownedDazzler21 said:
It was a company, whether it was private or public who knows.North Lower Neil said:
Presumably it's a public company, not just a one man band.Dazzler21 said:
Wasn't the pilot the owner and operator?MikeBaileysFanClub said:Obviously tragic. Now watch the american legal system go full blast. Hope the operators had good insurance - they'll need it - signed waivers or not.
Good luck suing him.0 -
bobmunro said:James Cameron was on the radio when I was driving in this morning. He had been told of the sound detected on Sunday that occurred at about the time all contact was lost. He also added that the sonar blip mechanism was separately battery powered whereas the comms were powered from a generator - to lose both at the same time meant there was only one explanation and that as soon as they could get a ROV down there they would find the debris in minutes, directly below the point (3000m) when contact was lost.
It is highly likely they died instantly without any warning, and there is some small solace in that.
RIPJames Cameron visited the wreck of the Titanic 33 times in the making of his film. So he certainly knows what he is talking about.0 -
JaShea99 said:Reckless!!
Indeed! Recklessness of titanicCafc43v3r said:
Without taking away from the gravity of the situation I can't wait for James Cameron to give his opinion when someone builds a buff Austrian cyborg using ChatGPT.McBobbin said:According to James Cameron, he said the info was shared right away, just not to the public. The sound on it's own wouldn't be conclusive even if it indicated what might have happened. I'd imagine that the authorities had a good idea what happened, but it was still spun into a drama until is was conclusively known what had happened.Yeah
What?2 -
At a quarter of a million dollars a trip? If there are other means of seeing it it makes going in the mini capsule even more bizarre.Blackheathen said:bobmunro said:James Cameron was on the radio when I was driving in this morning. He had been told of the sound detected on Sunday that occurred at about the time all contact was lost. He also added that the sonar blip mechanism was separately battery powered whereas the comms were powered from a generator - to lose both at the same time meant there was only one explanation and that as soon as they could get a ROV down there they would find the debris in minutes, directly below the point (3000m) when contact was lost.
It is highly likely they died instantly without any warning, and there is some small solace in that.
RIPJames Cameron visited the wreck of the Titanic 33 times in the making of his film. So he certainly knows what he is talking about.0 -
I wouldn't thrust his judgement he still hired that Celine Dion to go on Dan Don.Blackheathen said:bobmunro said:James Cameron was on the radio when I was driving in this morning. He had been told of the sound detected on Sunday that occurred at about the time all contact was lost. He also added that the sonar blip mechanism was separately battery powered whereas the comms were powered from a generator - to lose both at the same time meant there was only one explanation and that as soon as they could get a ROV down there they would find the debris in minutes, directly below the point (3000m) when contact was lost.
It is highly likely they died instantly without any warning, and there is some small solace in that.
RIPJames Cameron visited the wreck of the Titanic 33 times in the making of his film. So he certainly knows what he is talking about.1 -
I get on a train to work most days. Doesn't mean I'm a rail crash investigator all of a sudden.Blackheathen said:bobmunro said:James Cameron was on the radio when I was driving in this morning. He had been told of the sound detected on Sunday that occurred at about the time all contact was lost. He also added that the sonar blip mechanism was separately battery powered whereas the comms were powered from a generator - to lose both at the same time meant there was only one explanation and that as soon as they could get a ROV down there they would find the debris in minutes, directly below the point (3000m) when contact was lost.
It is highly likely they died instantly without any warning, and there is some small solace in that.
RIPJames Cameron visited the wreck of the Titanic 33 times in the making of his film. So he certainly knows what he is talking about.1 -
He's also been in a one man submersible that went considerably deeper than even the Titanic dive, and has done quite a lot of research and exploration regarding deep oceans.Blackheathen said:bobmunro said:James Cameron was on the radio when I was driving in this morning. He had been told of the sound detected on Sunday that occurred at about the time all contact was lost. He also added that the sonar blip mechanism was separately battery powered whereas the comms were powered from a generator - to lose both at the same time meant there was only one explanation and that as soon as they could get a ROV down there they would find the debris in minutes, directly below the point (3000m) when contact was lost.
It is highly likely they died instantly without any warning, and there is some small solace in that.
RIPJames Cameron visited the wreck of the Titanic 33 times in the making of his film. So he certainly knows what he is talking about.
He probably really does know what he's talking about.2 -
You would think the structure of these things shouldn't be strong enough to withold the pressures but at least twice as strong. It is the principle which makes air travel relatively safe. We will have to wait for the enquiry to get more information.0
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If you designed and drove the train, and that train took you to a point so deep under water that only two human beings have ever been to it, then I think you should give yourself more credit.Off_it said:
I get on a train to work most days. Doesn't mean I'm a rail crash investigator all of a sudden.Blackheathen said:bobmunro said:James Cameron was on the radio when I was driving in this morning. He had been told of the sound detected on Sunday that occurred at about the time all contact was lost. He also added that the sonar blip mechanism was separately battery powered whereas the comms were powered from a generator - to lose both at the same time meant there was only one explanation and that as soon as they could get a ROV down there they would find the debris in minutes, directly below the point (3000m) when contact was lost.
It is highly likely they died instantly without any warning, and there is some small solace in that.
RIPJames Cameron visited the wreck of the Titanic 33 times in the making of his film. So he certainly knows what he is talking about.3 -
Underwater trains?JiMMy 85 said:
If you designed and drove the train, and that train took you to a point so deep under water that only two human beings have ever been to it, then I think you should give yourself more credit.Off_it said:
I get on a train to work most days. Doesn't mean I'm a rail crash investigator all of a sudden.Blackheathen said:bobmunro said:James Cameron was on the radio when I was driving in this morning. He had been told of the sound detected on Sunday that occurred at about the time all contact was lost. He also added that the sonar blip mechanism was separately battery powered whereas the comms were powered from a generator - to lose both at the same time meant there was only one explanation and that as soon as they could get a ROV down there they would find the debris in minutes, directly below the point (3000m) when contact was lost.
It is highly likely they died instantly without any warning, and there is some small solace in that.
RIPJames Cameron visited the wreck of the Titanic 33 times in the making of his film. So he certainly knows what he is talking about.
Now I'm interested. Choo choo!4
