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Is Holden under pressure?

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  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,089
    Valley11 said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Want Holden to stay and have a fair crack at the job with a proper squad but our former premier league captain might be available soon  ;)

    ??
    Assuming Gary Rowett? He was getting pelters from the Millwall fans towards the end of their loss to Norwich according to the TV commentator. 
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,890
    edited August 2023
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    shirty5 said:
    If he’s under pressure to go, then so is Andy Scott if the squad is not improved on by the end of this month 
    He was not a success in January imo.
    Not defending the guy but he had a limited job spec mate as TS still had the reins 😉.
  • charlton_hero
    charlton_hero Posts: 4,677
    I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think he's good enough. Some of our defending this season has been school boy stuff. 
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,890
    charlton_hero said:
    I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think he's good enough. Some of our defending this season has been school boy stuff. 
    To be fair that’s a bit of an insult to schoolboys but I get your drift 😉
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,890
    edited August 2023
    se9addick said:
    Valley11 said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Want Holden to stay and have a fair crack at the job with a proper squad but our former premier league captain might be available soon  ;)

    ??
    Assuming Gary Rowett? He was getting pelters from the Millwall fans towards the end of their loss to Norwich according to the TV commentator. 
    Was he Captain in our Premier League days then? He only played for us a handful of times 🤔
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,089
    edited August 2023
    RedChaser said:
    se9addick said:
    Valley11 said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Want Holden to stay and have a fair crack at the job with a proper squad but our former premier league captain might be available soon  ;)

    ??
    Assuming Gary Rowett? He was getting pelters from the Millwall fans towards the end of their loss to Norwich according to the TV commentator. 
    Was he Captain in our Premier League days then? He only played for us a handful of times 🤔
    “Curbs had made me captain after about three games”



    I always bring sources. 
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,763
    J BLOCK said:
    The squad needs work but no way it is worse than Port Vale and Bristol Rovers, we should be winning these easily.
    Match thread littered with comments a out now bad Port Vale were, and every comment correct. They were awful and we didn't seem to have any game plan other than to give it to CBT and hope for the best
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,890
    se9addick said:
    RedChaser said:
    se9addick said:
    Valley11 said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Want Holden to stay and have a fair crack at the job with a proper squad but our former premier league captain might be available soon  ;)

    ??
    Assuming Gary Rowett? He was getting pelters from the Millwall fans towards the end of their loss to Norwich according to the TV commentator. 
    Was he Captain in our Premier League days then? He only played for us a handful of times 🤔
    “Curbs had made me captain after about three games”



    I always bring sources. 
    Well I’m blowed 👏👍
  • RonnieMoore
    RonnieMoore Posts: 4,551
    BigDiddy said:
    Holden is not the problem - the owners are the problem.



    What after two weeks .. calm down 

  • RonnieMoore
    RonnieMoore Posts: 4,551
    Croydon said:
    J BLOCK said:
    The squad needs work but no way it is worse than Port Vale and Bristol Rovers, we should be winning these easily.
    Match thread littered with comments an out now bad Port Vale were, and every comment correct. They were awful and we didn't seem to have any game plan other than to give it to CBT and hope for the best
    They weren’t awful they played to their strengths can’t blame teams like PV for doing that 

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  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,089
    RonnieMoore said:
    BigDiddy said:
    Holden is not the problem - the owners are the problem.



    What after two weeks .. calm down 

    Genuine question - did the new owners have a say in the hiring of Holden or was it all Sandgaard?
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,404
    talk of Rowett taking over ? .. he's had a few very good years at Millwall, so far this season, not so much ..
     If, and it's a big IF he's sacked, and so is Holden at the same time, would Rowett be welcomed by our fans ? .. ex Millwall and appointed after being sacked by our biggest protagonists (polite word) ?

    He would be metaphorically crucified if he failed to make a major difference at once, and think of the abuse we'd get from the Toolbox Fans .. a very decent manager, but a very risky proposition for CAFC i m o .. wise after the event, we should have appointed him way back when .. Bowyer coming back might be the thing .. he would certainly sort out the chaff still hanging round the squad and is still, (again) i m o a Charlton Legend .. we must be aware of appointing another Garner type, all mouth and snow white T shirt with no affiliation nor interest in the club other than as a 'professional manager' moving up the leagues
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,245
    RedChaser said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    shirty5 said:
    If he’s under pressure to go, then so is Andy Scott if the squad is not improved on by the end of this month 
    He was not a success in January imo.
    Not defending the guy but he had a limited job spec mate as TS still had the reins 😉.
    Apologist :p
  • StreekDerek
    StreekDerek Posts: 354
    Nice bloke. Can’t be blamed for individual mistakes or injuries but has shown no tactical nous since he joined us. Still don’t know what his preferred formation is.
  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,089
    Lincsaddick said:
    talk of Rowett taking over ? .. he's had a few very good years at Millwall, so far this season, not so much ..
     If, and it's a big IF he's sacked, and so is Holden at the same time, would Rowett be welcomed by our fans ? .. ex Millwall and appointed after being sacked by our biggest protagonists (polite word) ?

    He would be metaphorically crucified if he failed to make a major difference at once, and think of the abuse we'd get from the Toolbox Fans .. a very decent manager, but a very risky proposition for CAFC i m o .. wise after the event, we should have appointed him way back when .. Bowyer coming back might be the thing .. he would certainly sort out the chaff still hanging round the squad and is still, (again) i m o a Charlton Legend .. we must be aware of appointing another Garner type, all mouth and snow white T shirt with no affiliation nor interest in the club other than as a 'professional manager' moving up the leagues
    Rowett wouldn’t come to Charlton even if he were sacked by Millwall. I really don’t think we would be a particularly attractive proposition to any but the most desperate or deluded managers. 
  • The Prince-e-Paul
    The Prince-e-Paul Posts: 6,701
    se9addick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    talk of Rowett taking over ? .. he's had a few very good years at Millwall, so far this season, not so much ..
     If, and it's a big IF he's sacked, and so is Holden at the same time, would Rowett be welcomed by our fans ? .. ex Millwall and appointed after being sacked by our biggest protagonists (polite word) ?

    He would be metaphorically crucified if he failed to make a major difference at once, and think of the abuse we'd get from the Toolbox Fans .. a very decent manager, but a very risky proposition for CAFC i m o .. wise after the event, we should have appointed him way back when .. Bowyer coming back might be the thing .. he would certainly sort out the chaff still hanging round the squad and is still, (again) i m o a Charlton Legend .. we must be aware of appointing another Garner type, all mouth and snow white T shirt with no affiliation nor interest in the club other than as a 'professional manager' moving up the leagues
     I really don’t think we would be a particularly attractive proposition to any but the most desperate or deluded players. 

  • Southendaddick
    Southendaddick Posts: 5,324
    See the usual Rowett out posts on spanners online not the 200 page thread on us but a different one 😂 (they don’t care much)

    I like Holden a lot and would definitely give him time, unlike Adkins and a few others that were hopeless I genuinely feel Holden can get it right 

    But we are missing a CB, Leaburn, Cambell, Fraser and a Rak Saki equivalent 

  • se9addick
    se9addick Posts: 32,089
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    se9addick said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    talk of Rowett taking over ? .. he's had a few very good years at Millwall, so far this season, not so much ..
     If, and it's a big IF he's sacked, and so is Holden at the same time, would Rowett be welcomed by our fans ? .. ex Millwall and appointed after being sacked by our biggest protagonists (polite word) ?

    He would be metaphorically crucified if he failed to make a major difference at once, and think of the abuse we'd get from the Toolbox Fans .. a very decent manager, but a very risky proposition for CAFC i m o .. wise after the event, we should have appointed him way back when .. Bowyer coming back might be the thing .. he would certainly sort out the chaff still hanging round the squad and is still, (again) i m o a Charlton Legend .. we must be aware of appointing another Garner type, all mouth and snow white T shirt with no affiliation nor interest in the club other than as a 'professional manager' moving up the leagues
     I really don’t think we would be a particularly attractive proposition to any but the most desperate or deluded players. 

    At this level I think the players are mainly going to go wherever the best contract is, and maybe family reasons as a secondary factor. They probably won’t care how much of a basketcase the club is provided they get paid.

    They’ll all say when they sign that the size of the club, the vision the manager shared or the passion of the fan base are motivating factors but, in truth, if they got offered a better deal somewhere else that’s where they would have gone. 
  • Fanny Fanackapan
    Fanny Fanackapan Posts: 18,769
    PragueAddick said:
    FAVADDICK said:
    When you look at the signings weve made 

    Isted one of the best keepers in the league last season

    Edun smashed it when at lincoln a couple of seasons ago 

    Jones got player of the season at cambridge last year 

    Pan camara doesnt need explaning (one of the best in the league )

    Taylor one of burtons better players who had alot of championship interest 

    May one of the top goal scorers in the leauge for the last 2 seasons 

    I know were short of quite a few players but with these signings we shouldnt be losing to bristol rovers and port vale, were a much better team with the ball on the floor, but have gone into a pump it long mode with 2 of the smallest strikers in the league. Theres alot in this team that needs to change certainly our set piece takers who are shocking, dean has to take 90% of the blame for the results weve had it just isnt good enough .
    Does the following really need saying?

    Edun. Not match fit, cannot yet complete 80, let alone 100 minutes
    Jones. Not been match fit, just about managed yesterday
    Camara. Injured yesterday. His debut was his first 90 mins in 18 months.
    Taylor. Obviously still not match fit yesterday, yet had to do the 100 mins
    May. Asked to play on his own up front in the early gsmes, not his strength.

    Hector’s not match fit either, he would not have made that mistake end of last season.

    And then we get on to exhausting three talented 18 year olds because Holden’s options from the bench are disinterested second-raters ( well ok, Payne at least tries) whom we cannot apparently shift out to make way for better players.
    And the make up of the starting line ups changing match by match mainly due to the above issues. 

    Plus the ongoing injury "crisis" that reduces the number of fit players available ! 

     No further words necessary. 
  • JohnnyH2
    JohnnyH2 Posts: 5,352
    Valley11 said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Want Holden to stay and have a fair crack at the job with a proper squad but our former premier league captain might be available soon  ;)

    ??
    Rowett

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  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,032
    For me the problem is that nothing much has changed from last season. The confused "strategy", the defensive errors, all these things were issues last season too. But last season we had Rak-Sakyi to pull our collective bums out of the fire. This season we don't.

    There's enough mitigation that I am not waving any "Holden Out" banners yet. But he's absolutely under pressure and it is at least partially self-inflicted.
  • IAgree
    IAgree Posts: 1,839
    PragueAddick said:
    IAgree said:
    Actually having slept on it, reflected upon the first four games and thought about various comments I have slightly revised my angle on this.

    I do think we need further recruitment and I think we should afford DH at least some time to develop, however as many have pointed out, the tactics have been mixed and poor, fitness is most definitely an issue and the set pieces are almost entirely woeful. These are all the managers responsibility and all need prompt attention. 
    Not sure that's true in the modern game. And we are now in our 4th season of chronic injury issues.
    Young players looking dead on their feet after 80 mins was what I meant by fitness, as opposed to injuries. I do think that is a managers responsibility, as are preparation for set pieces and tactics, although I think Fannies point is valid re the latter is valid.

    Personally I think he needs a squad but their are things he could and needs to focus upon and in these day of 15 mins of added time these are especially important 
  • Ilovelondontown
    Ilovelondontown Posts: 293
    No
  • Codfishjunior
    Codfishjunior Posts: 367
    Yes we are light on the player side, but our style of play has been lumping the ball up to a 5 foot fuck all striker and spamming the hell out of CBT
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,501
    He's a pretty mediocre manager and I imagine if he goes we won't get much better. The idea that he'll get a quality squad seems pretty unlikely given our owners.


  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,669
    Every manager with three defeats in four is under pressure. Our form is at present relegation form. 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 70,038
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    Every manager with three defeats in four is under pressure. Our form is at present relegation form. 

    Plus the awful second half capitulation at Newport, which turned out to be far more representative of our league form than we thought at the time 
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,246
    It all started with the ridiculous hand holding celebration after our 1-0 victory over Orient , oh we have a connection 
    fuck off
    boo them they can’t do any worse 
  • Todds_right_hook
    Todds_right_hook Posts: 10,906
    RonnieMoore said:
    Croydon said:
    J BLOCK said:
    The squad needs work but no way it is worse than Port Vale and Bristol Rovers, we should be winning these easily.
    Match thread littered with comments an out now bad Port Vale were, and every comment correct. They were awful and we didn't seem to have any game plan other than to give it to CBT and hope for the best
    They weren’t awful they played to their strengths can’t blame teams like PV for doing that 
    How many time did their diagonal balls go over the guys head and out for a throw? 

    Port vale were awful and we gifted them 3 goals. Simple!
  • soapy_jones
    soapy_jones Posts: 21,414
    edited August 2023
    He has a squad of injury prone 3rd division chancers and youngsters.

    A punt at promotion would be nice, but we are at our natural level with the personnel available to us.

    The fact that we are now owned by anyone better than the last lot(s) is just about to be proven one way or another.

    I know where my money is and Holden will be collecting his pay off by November at the latest.

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