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London Overground - new line names revealed.

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  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,040
    Off_it said:
    Thing is, these lines arent new and most of them had pretty good names already before they all got lumped together under the "Overground" heading.

    For example, the North London Line, the East London Line or the Lea Valley Line all sound alright to me. At least the name gives you a good idea of where they are.
    This is a fair criticism.
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,894
    Stig said:
    Off_it said:
    Thing is, these lines arent new and most of them had pretty good names already before they all got lumped together under the "Overground" heading.

    For example, the North London Line, the East London Line or the Lea Valley Line all sound alright to me. At least the name gives you a good idea of where they are.
    This is a fair criticism.
    It wasnt meant to be a criticism for or against really. Just pointing out that there previously were different names for these lines. And those names did the job.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,341
    Off_it said:
    Chizz said:
    Covered End said:
    Great thread, classic CL.

    Fwiw I didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago, when I discovered you could go to Alexander Palace on the overground, rather only Wood Green on the underground.

    It's definitely a good idea to have the underground, overground and DLR all on the same map.

     
    The Overground service started in 2007. 
    That was just the rebranding and bringing together of several already existing lines though. Each of which already had a name. Arguably the original decision to lump them all together under one name was the stupid one, so in that context giving them back individual names isnt that odd. Of course, what you think of the names is a personal opinion!
    You said that you didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago.  But that was when it was introduced.  So, in reality, you realised it existed around the time it came into existence. 
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,894
    Chizz said:
    Off_it said:
    Chizz said:
    Covered End said:
    Great thread, classic CL.

    Fwiw I didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago, when I discovered you could go to Alexander Palace on the overground, rather only Wood Green on the underground.

    It's definitely a good idea to have the underground, overground and DLR all on the same map.

     
    The Overground service started in 2007. 
    That was just the rebranding and bringing together of several already existing lines though. Each of which already had a name. Arguably the original decision to lump them all together under one name was the stupid one, so in that context giving them back individual names isnt that odd. Of course, what you think of the names is a personal opinion!
    You said that you didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago.  But that was when it was introduced.  So, in reality, you realised it existed around the time it came into existence. 
    Err, not me mate. I've only just read this thread this morning.

    I do hope you're not confusing me with Golfie! 😳
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,023
    Chizz said:
    Covered End said:
    Great thread, classic CL.

    Fwiw I didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago, when I discovered you could go to Alexander Palace on the overground, rather only Wood Green on the underground.

    It's definitely a good idea to have the underground, overground and DLR all on the same map.

     
    The Overground service started in 2007. 
    That explains perfectly why I'd not heard of it before. 
  • valleynick66
    valleynick66 Posts: 4,892
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    Out of interest have any alternate parties (not Khan) stated they will revoke this if in power?

    Seems to me a better solution would now be some sort of National ID scheme.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    edited February 2024
    There has always been a London overground service. I am pretty sure you could get overground trains from West Hampstead when I was a student to places like the station next to Tottenham Hotspur and other places like Bethnal Green.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,023
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    Covered End said:
    Great thread, classic CL.

    Fwiw I didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago, when I discovered you could go to Alexander Palace on the overground, rather only Wood Green on the underground.

    It's definitely a good idea to have the underground, overground and DLR all on the same map.

     
    They've been on the same map for 15 years or so.

    Depends which map you search for. 
    If you're unaware of the overground and a massive amount of people are and you simply search for the tube map, you may not see the combined map.

    I'll give another example. 
    When going to Wembley the vast majority use the underground/Wembley Park, because they don't realise Wembley Stadium station on the overground exists.
    I'm out & back to Marylebone in 15 mins, whilst tens of thousands are still queing at Wembley Park. 
  • cafc999
    cafc999 Posts: 4,968
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    If a problem didn't exist, then this would not have been brought in.

    £4m a year, every year? Are you sure of that? Do we have elections every year?

    The Tories are just playing the system.

    Not sure why you have brought Khan's name into this comment 



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  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,023
    seth plum said:
    There has always been a London overground service. I am pretty sure you could get overground trains from West Hampstead when I was a student to places like the station next to Tottenham Hotspur and other places like Bethnal Green.
    Good point. 
    Spurs nearest stations are White Hart Lane or Bruce Grove on the overground & my dad took me there late 60's.
  • Gillis
    Gillis Posts: 998
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    If a problem didn't exist, then this would not have been brought in.

    £4m a year, every year? Are you sure of that? Do we have elections every year?

    The Tories are just playing the system.

    Not sure why you have brought Khan's name into this comment 



    If we follow this logic, it will close down a lot of debates on this site. The new Overground line names, ULEZ, VAR - if they weren't needed, they wouldn't have been brought in. On second thoughts, maybe we should go with that and all enjoy a more harmonious forum.

    I don't think there's any evidence that voter ID was needed in this country, at least not for the reasons stated when it was introduced. Not really anything to do with the Overground, though!
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,109
    Covered End said:
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    Covered End said:
    Great thread, classic CL.

    Fwiw I didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago, when I discovered you could go to Alexander Palace on the overground, rather only Wood Green on the underground.

    It's definitely a good idea to have the underground, overground and DLR all on the same map.

     
    They've been on the same map for 15 years or so.

    Depends which map you search for. 
    If you're unaware of the overground and a massive amount of people are and you simply search for the tube map, you may not see the combined map.

    I'll give another example. 
    When going to Wembley the vast majority use the underground/Wembley Park, because they don't realise Wembley Stadium station on the overground exists.
    I'm out & back to Marylebone in 15 mins, whilst tens of thousands are still queing at Wembley Park. 
    A massive amount of people are up in arms about the waste of £6m, most of them are probably unaware of the overground as well. Other than the lionesses (wouldn't 3 lions have been better?) I don't see what the fuss is about.

    The Overground has been on all the tube maps for around 15 years or so. I think you're getting confused with national rail lines which is on some maps?


  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,023
    edited February 2024
    So maybe I'm being thick, but I can't see Wembley Stadium or Alexander Palace stations on the TFL tube map?

    Confident there is nothing on that map showing there is an overground option from Marylebone to Wembley Stadium or Euston or Finsbury Park to Alexander Palace. 

    This is the first map on the link, which one might assume is therefore used most commonly.
    https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
  • Rothko
    Rothko Posts: 18,813
    Covered End said:
    So maybe I'm being thick, but I can't see Wembley Stadium or Alexander Palace stations on the TFL tube map?

    Confident there is nothing on that map showing there is an overground option from Marylebone to Wembley Stadium or Euston or Finsbury Park to Alexander Palace. 

    This is the first map on the link, which one might assume is therefore used most commonly.
    https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
    Don’t think either is served by a TfL service, where as Wembley Central is by what will be the Lioness line 
  • MrOneLung
    MrOneLung Posts: 26,873
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    Regardless of the party bringing this in, I was always slightly bemused at the lack of ID requirements when voting
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,023
    edited February 2024
    Rothko said:
    Covered End said:
    So maybe I'm being thick, but I can't see Wembley Stadium or Alexander Palace stations on the TFL tube map?

    Confident there is nothing on that map showing there is an overground option from Marylebone to Wembley Stadium or Euston or Finsbury Park to Alexander Palace. 

    This is the first map on the link, which one might assume is therefore used most commonly.
    https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
    Don’t think either is served by a TfL service, where as Wembley Central is by what will be the Lioness line 
    Probably explains why some overground lines/stations don't show on tube maps.
    So as I explained the majority use Wembley Park or Wembley Central because they don't even know Wembley Stadium station exists.

    So TFL run some London Overground services, but not others, so some overground services show on maps and some don't.
  • Chizz
    Chizz Posts: 28,341
    Off_it said:
    Chizz said:
    Off_it said:
    Chizz said:
    Covered End said:
    Great thread, classic CL.

    Fwiw I didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago, when I discovered you could go to Alexander Palace on the overground, rather only Wood Green on the underground.

    It's definitely a good idea to have the underground, overground and DLR all on the same map.

     
    The Overground service started in 2007. 
    That was just the rebranding and bringing together of several already existing lines though. Each of which already had a name. Arguably the original decision to lump them all together under one name was the stupid one, so in that context giving them back individual names isnt that odd. Of course, what you think of the names is a personal opinion!
    You said that you didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago.  But that was when it was introduced.  So, in reality, you realised it existed around the time it came into existence. 
    Err, not me mate. I've only just read this thread this morning.

    I do hope you're not confusing me with Golfie! 😳
    Look.  Don't have a go at me.  It's not my fault I replied to your post before properly reading it*. 

    *Actually, it is.   Sorry. 
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448
    MrOneLung said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    Regardless of the party bringing this in, I was always slightly bemused at the lack of ID requirements when voting
    It has always been possible, and quite simple actually, to trace who you voted for.
    The ballot papers are individually numbered, and that number corresponds to your name and address recorded on the ledger.
    If in an election there were let’s say 100 votes for the Official Monster Raving Loony party, those 100 votes could be traced back to who voted Loony.
    It is not a secret ballot, but would be quite a task to trace back thousands of the same votes, but maybe technology in the future will make that possible.
    ID requirements is not a terrible thing in itself, but stuff like student ID being disqualified yet an OAP buss pass is OK is not all that equitable.
    Voter fraud in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has never been an issue, although more cases have been found in Northern Ireland over the years than elsewhere.
    I believe there used to be a saying going around over there ‘vote early, vote often!’ The civil rights movement in NI in the early sixties was a lot about the strangeness of elections there.

    If you read the ‘background’ bit on here you can see that it wasn’t one man one vote.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_civil_rights_movement
  • stevexreeve
    stevexreeve Posts: 1,387
    Can't let this one go without a comment.

    TFL spends millions of pounds making sure the maps and signage at its stations and elsewhere are both correct and easily understandable - particularly to tourists and occasional visits to the capital.

    Look at any tourist guide to London and the advice for travel within London is to pick your route on the tube map - blue line then red line then black line - change on to the next line at the intersections. Don't worry about timetables and don't use cabs. Don't bother with the other lines on the map because they can be complicated and infrequent.

    Now there is a whole group of new lines which are basically simple to use and frequent but are not "advertised" to tourists. This is an incredible waste.

    There are plenty of books about Harry Beck's original tube map and how a frivolous and pointless branding exercise eventually changed the way metro systems round the world were used. Even the map itself has become a classic icon.

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  • Gribbo
    Gribbo Posts: 8,492
    Was expecting the George Dobson line
  • valleynick66
    valleynick66 Posts: 4,892
    seth plum said:
    MrOneLung said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    Regardless of the party bringing this in, I was always slightly bemused at the lack of ID requirements when voting
    It has always been possible, and quite simple actually, to trace who you voted for.
    The ballot papers are individually numbered, and that number corresponds to your name and address recorded on the ledger.
    If in an election there were let’s say 100 votes for the Official Monster Raving Loony party, those 100 votes could be traced back to who voted Loony.
    It is not a secret ballot, but would be quite a task to trace back thousands of the same votes, but maybe technology in the future will make that possible.
    ID requirements is not a terrible thing in itself, but stuff like student ID being disqualified yet an OAP buss pass is OK is not all that equitable.
    Voter fraud in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has never been an issue, although more cases have been found in Northern Ireland over the years than elsewhere.
    I believe there used to be a saying going around over there ‘vote early, vote often!’ The civil rights movement in NI in the early sixties was a lot about the strangeness of elections there.

    If you read the ‘background’ bit on here you can see that it wasn’t one man one vote.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_civil_rights_movement
    I’ve always understood the variation reflects the relative hurdle to obtain those ids in the first instance  I.e. relatively harder / more supporting documentation needed to acquire an OAP pass. 

    Of course anyone can request the new voter ID and no doubt there will be proactive advertising and news items on this in the build up to the election to ensure awareness well ahead of time. 
  • Stig
    Stig Posts: 29,040
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    If a problem didn't exist, then this would not have been brought in.

    £4m a year, every year? Are you sure of that? Do we have elections every year?

    The Tories are just playing the system.

    Not sure why you have brought Khan's name into this comment 


    Wrong. Moggy has already admitted it was done for gerrymandering purposes. 
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BWjJkzig35I

  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,894
    Chizz said:
    Off_it said:
    Chizz said:
    Off_it said:
    Chizz said:
    Covered End said:
    Great thread, classic CL.

    Fwiw I didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago, when I discovered you could go to Alexander Palace on the overground, rather only Wood Green on the underground.

    It's definitely a good idea to have the underground, overground and DLR all on the same map.

     
    The Overground service started in 2007. 
    That was just the rebranding and bringing together of several already existing lines though. Each of which already had a name. Arguably the original decision to lump them all together under one name was the stupid one, so in that context giving them back individual names isnt that odd. Of course, what you think of the names is a personal opinion!
    You said that you didn't realise there was a London Overground until about 15 years ago.  But that was when it was introduced.  So, in reality, you realised it existed around the time it came into existence. 
    Err, not me mate. I've only just read this thread this morning.

    I do hope you're not confusing me with Golfie! 😳
    Look.  Don't have a go at me.  It's not my fault I replied to your post before properly reading it*. 

    *Actually, it is.   Sorry. 
    Lol, no worries.

    Just noticed it was Covered End you mistook me for, so certainly not as bad as being mistaken for Golfie!
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,109
    Stig said:
    cafc999 said:
    seth plum said:
    The introduction of the voter ID requirements is slated to cost some £4million a year every year.
    Something that many say was unnecessary, to confront a problem that doesn’t exist.
    Not something brought in by Sadiq Khan.
    If a problem didn't exist, then this would not have been brought in.

    £4m a year, every year? Are you sure of that? Do we have elections every year?

    The Tories are just playing the system.

    Not sure why you have brought Khan's name into this comment 


    Wrong. Moggy has already admitted it was done for gerrymandering purposes. 
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BWjJkzig35I

    I remember the 40 page thread on that.
  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,749
    Gribbo said:
    Was expecting the George Dobson line
    They just spent HUF 2.73Bn renaming a line in Budapest n’all. Mugs. 
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,894
    How did a thread about the names of train lines turn into a debate about voter ID?
  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,876
    Off_it said:
    How did a thread about the names of train lines turn into a debate about voter ID?
    How do you think?
  • Off_it
    Off_it Posts: 28,894
    edited February 2024
    SporadicAddick said:
    Off_it said:
    How did a thread about the names of train lines turn into a debate about voter ID?
    How do you think?
    Dunno. Not looked. Just clicked on the thread and saw a load of posts about voter ID, which wasn't what I was expecting!

    Edit: Oh, I see .....
  • Algarveaddick
    Algarveaddick Posts: 21,156
    Off_it said:
    Thing is, these lines arent new and most of them had pretty good names already before they all got lumped together under the "Overground" heading.

    For example, the North London Line, the East London Line or the Lea Valley Line all sound alright to me. At least the name gives you a good idea of where they are.

    Good point that offy.

    So, fifteen years ago, someone rebranded all those lines into "London Overground". As this current rebranding is apparently all Khan's fault, I can't help wondering whose fault it was in 2009? Who might have been mayor at the time, anyone have any idea? 

    Regarding how threads get de-railed, next time you are chatting with mates in the pub, make sure you stick to one topic at a time, and then agree to stop talking about that and start talking about something else. It's unnatural for conversations to evolve, after all...         

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