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England vs Brazil (C4) - KO: 7pm
Comments
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Only takes one below average performance and out they all come. It’s tiresome.15
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Southgate himself is a boring and unassuming person, that's one of the major points people have against him.
He's a decent manager in international football and will probably take us to yet another semi final, at least0 -
Which would make him the best manager of England for more than sixty yearssam3110 said:Southgate himself is a boring and unassuming person, that's one of the major points people have against him.
He's a decent manager in international football and will probably take us to yet another semi final, at least6 -
Why do they need to be English?Stu_of_Kunming said:Can any of those calling for Southgate’s head name one better English manager?2 -
We drew against North Macedonia the game before this one.ValleyGary said:Only takes one below average performance and out they all come. It’s tiresome.
No one has said sack him now by the way.0 -
I'm not advocating that Southgate should be sacked but Eddie Howe has achieved far more as a Manager at club level than Southgate ever did both in terms of team results and the improvement of players as individuals and their man management.Stu_of_Kunming said:Can any of those calling for Southgate’s head name one better English manager?
Howe took Bournemouth all the way from the fourth tier to the PL and kept them there too. He had an indifferent spell at Burnley (still won as many games as they lost and it is well documented that the spell coincided with the death of his mother which hit him very hard). When he took over at Newcastle they were destined to be relegated but he ended up taking them to 11th. Last season Newcastle were punching well above their weight in finishing 4th and above the likes of Liverpool. This season they've had to do without, for long periods of time, the likes of Barnes, Botman, Tonali, Pope, Joelinton, Murphy, Willock, Wilson and Isak. When they've had some semblance of a full squad, Newcastle managed to beat PSG 4-1 as well drawing in Milan, beaten Man City in the League Cup, beaten Villa home and away, Man United home and away and Arsenal.
There is no harder working Manager in football or a greater student of the game. In his break before taking over at Newcastle, he spent his time travelling and studying the workings and methods of the greatest managers around the world. And before anyone questions what international experience has he had, I would just mention the names Greenwood, Taylor, Allardyce, McClaren, Hodgson and Sven. Even probably our best coach and motivator, Terry Venables, only had a couple of caps to his name.
As I say, I am not suggesting that Southgate should be sacked. What does frustrate me, though, for example, is when I see a player such as Foden, able to express himself on the highest stage of club football but play for England as if he's been given limitations as to what he should be doing.3 -
This team is better than our "golden generation though" definitely going forward, and even more so if you look at it comparatively. We've probably got the best midfield/front line in the world at mom. OK our defence is pretty shot, but I think we need to play to our strengthsDOUCHER said:It’s easy to say we should be doing better but look at the ‘golden generation’ they did a lot less - the final against Italy was crying out for a change and he was rightly criticised for that but the facts suggest his tactics have got us further in more tournaments than any manager since Alf Ramsey0 -
Why do they have to be English? If City win it all again, which I think they will, we should be going all out for Pep. I reckon he would take the job aswellStu_of_Kunming said:Can any of those calling for Southgate’s head name one better English manager?0 -
I don't think we should sack him before the tournament, he has learnt the right to be there by getting us to semis/finals, but do I think an attacking minded manager would have this team winning a tournament? Definitely1
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There is no bigger overhyped 'generation' than the golden one.CAFCsayer said:
This team is better than our "golden generation though" definitely going forward, and even more so if you look at it comparatively. We've probably got the best midfield/front line in the world at mom. OK our defence is pretty shot, but I think we need to play to our strengthsDOUCHER said:It’s easy to say we should be doing better but look at the ‘golden generation’ they did a lot less - the final against Italy was crying out for a change and he was rightly criticised for that but the facts suggest his tactics have got us further in more tournaments than any manager since Alf Ramsey
How many Champions League medals do any of the golden generation have in comparison to this one at their current ages? Showed that their European counterparts were clearly better than the English ones at the time in a tournament format.2 -
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He might but the one thing we know about Pep is that he loves working with players and seeing their improvement on a day-to-day basis. The England job might frustrate him in that respect especially with club managers so reluctant to release their "injured" players (not that I am suggesting that Pep is totally innocent in that respect). What bet that, for example, Saka is available to play for Arsenal at the weekend? It's that sort of situation that would probably do Pep's brains in.CAFCsayer said:
Why do they have to be English? If City win it all again, which I think they will, we should be going all out for Pep. I reckon he would take the job aswellStu_of_Kunming said:Can any of those calling for Southgate’s head name one better English manager?1 -
Would Pep do well enough with England? - I'd probably want Mourinho over him, as a foreign choice.CAFCsayer said:
Why do they have to be English? If City win it all again, which I think they will, we should be going all out for Pep. I reckon he would take the job aswellStu_of_Kunming said:Can any of those calling for Southgate’s head name one better English manager?
Pep took seven years to win the Champions League with Man City with unlimited resources, I mention the Champions League on its own as its the one club competition that is in a similar format to the World Cup or the Euros - Would we be prepared to give him until 2038 if he repeated that?
Mourinho on the other hand, has that proper boring / controlling type of Football that is perfect for Tournament / International Football it feels
Only thing that would worry me, is the team chemistry with him in charge.0 -
Southgate is a better international manager than he is a club manager imo
the draw he had in 2018 was the equivalent of millwalls byes in getting to the fa cup final except we lost in the semi to Croatia who as good as they were you’d love to face them in a World Cup semi every day of the week .
Euros we were favourites in every game and couldn’t Get over The line
England in knockout stages in tournaments never win matches when they’re not favourites , twas ever thus and we sometimes lose to weaker oppo
id be happy if Southgate became palace manager that’s how much I rate him , pony club manager , solid international manager2 -
It is just luck though. We have had extremely favourable runs. Nearly knocked out early by Colombia, then got arguably the easiest Euro run ever and got hammered by Italy, were lucky to see penalties, France were there for the taking and we lose to them. Nations league lost a difficult game. Everytime we face a team with a bit about them he fails the test, I think it's ridiculous he's been given a 4th attempt at a tournament.Garrymanilow said:
'Southgate would have been sacked if all the players he chose, coached and set the tactics for had not then gone on to win games' isn't really a gotcha take. It's his job to get the players to go on decent tournament runs and he hasBraziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I love watching England, but any manager would have got the results he had with the talent at our disposal. He's just another Dean Holden, great man but doesn't have that edge to win with a team imo. I'd love to be wrong, but last night was alarm bells. No Kane no party.
Italy played very exciting football in the Euros, France excellent in the world Cup, so were Argentina to watch. Germany in 2014 played great football, they pumped Brazil 7-1. Spain were a pleasure to watch and were and will remain the best international squad to ever exist.Scoham said:
He is unadventurous, but how many countries in recent years have one World Cups and Euros playing exciting attacking football? Without looking back a lot of the time teams get through by keeping it tight defensively and with narrow victories.Braziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I think in my lifetime the only two tournament wins where the sides played genuinely poor football was Greece 04 and Portugal 16. Every other team has looked the business.
I also didn't have expectations of the older England teams, they were absolutely terrible. During the 90s and early 00s when we had our 'golden generation' the world of football was at a much higher level, our squad was weak in comparison to the likes of Brazil, France, Germany, and it showed. 2008-2016 is undoubtedly the worst period of English football I think I'll ever witness. Southgate has landed himself a role where the other nations have significantly weakened, there are less world class players now, than there was before and he currently has two of them, and potentially two more at his disposal.
I expect a lot more from this England side as the competition is so poor in depth. Only France match us.1 -
There is a very weird relationship with the England team for a lot of “fans”. As if they cannot wait to see a slip up so that they can have a moan. No doubt the same people that were calling 2018 “the best summer of their lives” all over social media at the time.ValleyGary said:Only takes one below average performance and out they all come. It’s tiresome.4 -
Don’t rate him at all to negative. The players he’s got to choose from we should be winning tournaments. Just look back how negative we played against Italy in last euros.3
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That Brazil team yesterday, mid-table premier league midfield on paper, (very aware of Paqueta and Brunos skill level and the Man City interest), an ageing Danilo, bang average Wendell also now in his 30s. A centre back pairing of a Flamengo player and Beraldo (who tbf is good). Just doesn't scream a high level Brazil and I don't think they showed it in their play either tbf. Take away Vini Jr and that's a poor international XI.
We didn't really test their keeper and couldn't score a goal, at Wembley. I just don't see an improvement in this teams style of play and he's had plenty of time to implement a style, especially with the quality of player.0 -
I reckon we should go back to the days of getting knocked out at the group stage or in the first knockout game or not even qualifying for the tournament at all like in the five tournaments pre-Southgate.
Using France as an example of attacking football is wild when Deschamps gets just as much stick for being negative as Southgate does. The entire French media were crucifying Deschamps for being too negative with Mbappe, Griezmann et al in the Euros in 2021. Yet it’s the exact same tactic that won them the World Cup in 2018.
Reality is that knockout football at the highest level is unforgiving. One bad or unlucky performance and you’re having to wait two more years for another go at it.7 -
Can't believe he's being linked with Man Utd, would be a disaster I think.oohaahmortimer said:Southgate is a better international manager than he is a club manager imo
the draw he had in 2018 was the equivalent of millwalls byes in getting to the fa cup final except we lost in the semi to Croatia who as good as they were you’d love to face them in a World Cup semi every day of the week .
Euros we were favourites in every game and couldn’t Get over The line
England in knockout stages in tournaments never win matches when they’re not favourites , twas ever thus and we sometimes lose to weaker oppo
id be happy if Southgate became palace manager that’s how much I rate him , pony club manager , solid international manager
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Reality is that come August it will be an irrelevant conversation if we don’t win the Euros as I am sure he would call it a day then anyway.
And even if we win does he go out on a high?
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Under Southgate we’ve won six knockout matches in three tournaments.
Colombia (on pens)
Sweden
Germany
Ukraine
Denmark (extra time)
Senegal
In the previous 14 tournaments (WC or Euro), we’ve won five knockout games.
Belgium (extra time)
Cameroon (extra time)
Spain (on pens)
Denmark
Ecuador
If you think it’s bad now, try following England through the 90s, 00s and early 10s…13 -
Are England overrated?
(Long video that discusses why England have good players, then end up looking not as good as the sum of their parts but somehow do much better in tournaments than previous England teams)
https://youtu.be/j9IHYQFR-NE?si=K_Sig-mnW62NuTxq 1 -
Don’t we get France in The quarters again if we both win our group?0
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If results go as expected, it would be France in the semis. Believe our QF game would be Spain, Italy or Croatia, depending on how that group goes if we win our group.MrOneLung said:Don’t we get France in The quarters again if we both win our group?
If we finish second, likely Germany then Spain or Italy.0 -
We didn’t even qualify for the World Cup in 1974 or 1978, that was pretty darn rubbish, you’ve never had it so good! 😊Callumcafc said:Under Southgate we’ve won six knockout matches in three tournaments.
Colombia (on pens)
Sweden
Germany
Ukraine
Denmark (extra time)
Senegal
In the previous 14 tournaments (WC or Euro), we’ve won five knockout games.
Belgium (extra time)
Cameroon (extra time)
Spain (on pens)
Denmark
Ecuador
If you think it’s bad now, try following England through the 90s, 00s and early 10s…4 -
Grim days, though back then qualifying was harder with 16 team World Cups and 8 team Euros.Mendonca In Asdas said:
We didn’t even qualify for the World Cup in 1974 or 1978, that was pretty darn rubbish, you’ve never had it so good! 😊Callumcafc said:Under Southgate we’ve won six knockout matches in three tournaments.
Colombia (on pens)
Sweden
Germany
Ukraine
Denmark (extra time)
Senegal
In the previous 14 tournaments (WC or Euro), we’ve won five knockout games.
Belgium (extra time)
Cameroon (extra time)
Spain (on pens)
Denmark
Ecuador
If you think it’s bad now, try following England through the 90s, 00s and early 10s…0 -
As a centre back i was having kittens about this as well for all the same points you make.jimmymelrose said:
This is one reason why we now get centre forwards with higher goalscoring records than in the past. Rice is wary of Endrick and in marking him plays Vinicius onside. Endrick shoukd be considered offside though. He doesn’t receive the ball but he does score the goal. In the past this would have been offside. How can he be ’not interferring with play?' How is Rice supposed to know that the ball won’t be played forward to him first?Callumcafc said:
What I don’t understand is if this is now the rule, why not leave a player way up the pitch? If he doesn’t receive the ball in the first pass and he’s not offside then we can leave a forward on the edge of the box, can’t we? That might be an extreme example but I do so to prove a point. Surely if you’re desperate for a goal at the end of the match, you could leave Kane near their penalty box, play a ball through for a speedy Saka or Gordon, Kane steps back a bit and receives a backward pass to find himself free and composed with no marker.0 -
I always find it amazing that, after qualifying for The World Cup 1962, England didn’t then successfully negotiate a set of World Cup qualifying games for twenty years until the 1982 tournament. This being due to not having to qualify for two tournaments (as hosts, then holders) then failing in the next two.Mendonca In Asdas said:
We didn’t even qualify for the World Cup in 1974 or 1978, that was pretty darn rubbish, you’ve never had it so good! 😊
Also, almost as amazing, 1982 was the first time England had ever been represented at a World Cup by an Arsenal player. (Kenny Sansom and Graham Rix were the first two)
Sorry, went a bit off topic, but I love crap like this!7 -
agree with you totally .. i m o the goal was so offside it was ridiculous, as ridiculous as having a Portuguese referee and VAR adjudicator .jimmymelrose said:
This is one reason why we now get centre forwards with higher goalscoring records than in the past. Rice is wary of Endrick and in marking him plays Vinicius onside. Endrick shoukd be considered offside though. He doesn’t receive the ball but he does score the goal. In the past this would have been offside. How can he be ’not interferring with play?' How is Rice supposed to know that the ball won’t be played forward to him first?Callumcafc said:
What I don’t understand is if this is now the rule, why not leave a player way up the pitch? If he doesn’t receive the ball in the first pass and he’s not offside then we can leave a forward on the edge of the box, can’t we? That might be an extreme example but I do so to prove a point. Surely if you’re desperate for a goal at the end of the match, you could leave Kane near their penalty box, play a ball through for a speedy Saka or Gordon, Kane steps back a bit and receives a backward pass to find himself free and composed with no marker.0 -
I seem to be alone. I thought we played quite well and, at times, exceptionally well. We faded second half, particularly when the subs came on but we were unlucky to lose. I enjoyed the game and we’re not far off the mark. We all know games at the top level turn on not much; we could win a big tournament or lose out but that’s true of the other top sides.0
