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England vs Brazil (C4) - KO: 7pm
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This summer no chance. Unless City get hit with a heavy points deduction that gives them no hope of competing, i don't think we'll see him leaving City yet. He's only 53 and i think would probably see international management as a lot further down the line.CAFCsayer said:
Why do they have to be English? If City win it all again, which I think they will, we should be going all out for Pep. I reckon he would take the job aswellStu_of_Kunming said:Can any of those calling for Southgate’s head name one better English manager?
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Braziliance said:
It is just luck though. We have had extremely favourable runs. Nearly knocked out early by Colombia, then got arguably the easiest Euro run ever and got hammered by Italy, were lucky to see penalties, France were there for the taking and we lose to them. Nations league lost a difficult game. Everytime we face a team with a bit about them he fails the test, I think it's ridiculous he's been given a 4th attempt at a tournament.Garrymanilow said:
'Southgate would have been sacked if all the players he chose, coached and set the tactics for had not then gone on to win games' isn't really a gotcha take. It's his job to get the players to go on decent tournament runs and he hasBraziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I love watching England, but any manager would have got the results he had with the talent at our disposal. He's just another Dean Holden, great man but doesn't have that edge to win with a team imo. I'd love to be wrong, but last night was alarm bells. No Kane no party.
Italy played very exciting football in the Euros, France excellent in the world Cup, so were Argentina to watch. Germany in 2014 played great football, they pumped Brazil 7-1. Spain were a pleasure to watch and were and will remain the best international squad to ever exist.Scoham said:
He is unadventurous, but how many countries in recent years have one World Cups and Euros playing exciting attacking football? Without looking back a lot of the time teams get through by keeping it tight defensively and with narrow victories.Braziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I think in my lifetime the only two tournament wins where the sides played genuinely poor football was Greece 04 and Portugal 16. Every other team has looked the business.
I also didn't have expectations of the older England teams, they were absolutely terrible. During the 90s and early 00s when we had our 'golden generation' the world of football was at a much higher level, our squad was weak in comparison to the likes of Brazil, France, Germany, and it showed. 2008-2016 is undoubtedly the worst period of English football I think I'll ever witness. Southgate has landed himself a role where the other nations have significantly weakened, there are less world class players now, than there was before and he currently has two of them, and potentially two more at his disposal.
I expect a lot more from this England side as the competition is so poor in depth. Only France match us.Oh for God's sake. This relentlessly shit take again. When we win it's just luck and anyone could have done it, when we lose it's all Southgate's fault. Never mind that literally no manager ever since Sir Alf Ramsey has been able to do it, but apparently we've got a Dean Holden. 'Nearly knocked out by Colombia' is at least a fairly new terrible take. Matches in tournaments you 'nearly' lose are called wins. We beat them. Then we got to the semis for the first time since 1990 with Ashley Young at left wingback, Harry Maguire at centre back, Jesse Lingard in midfield and Raheem Sterling as a striker all with a manager who hadn't even been in charge for the full qualification campaign.Our run to the Euros final (for the first time in our history) included Germany. They apparently don't count as a good team when we beat them - they would have if we'd lost of course- but they are. A team full of Champions League and World Cup winners. We weren't hammered by Italy, that's a ridiculous thing to say. We scored early, were doing well and then let them build up a head of steam - at which point yes he should have made changes but didn't - and took them to penalties. Honestly, if Rashford had put his penalty on target we would have gone on to win that shootout but what can Southgate do about that? Even so, just a few years ago we would have killed to be a couple of penalty kicks away from lifting the Euros. In the World Cup again we were put out by a missed penalty against a very good but borderline unwatchable French side that got to the final through being incredibly difficult to beat. They don't play good football and they haven't for the entirety of Deschamps' time in charge. Famously. The Belgian squad even had a little tantrum about France playing 'anti-football' because of their defensive and miserable setup. Works though. Italy are also a team notoriously built on a solid defensive base, it's hilarious to act like they were some free-flowing team. Genuinely hilarious. They beat Austria 2-1 after extra time, the famous chokers Belgium 2-1, Spain on penalties after a 1-1 and us the same. There was one team in the knockouts they didn't need extra time or pens to beat.We've spent the last 60 years getting knocked out of tournaments by the likes of Iceland, not making it out of the group stages behind Romania, Uruguay and Costa Rica, sometimes not even qualifying at all and now we moan because when we win the games are too easy and we fall at the final hurdle when previously we weren't even making it to the race because we'd already tripped ourselves up and broken our legs. We breeze through qualifying serene and usually unbeaten when it used to be an absolute nightmare watching us even get to the bloody tournaments. The team have been made likeable and inspirational when before the national sport wasn't football, it was hating England footballers. England fans have just become ludicrously entitled again after a couple of decent runs in tournaments and because they need someone to hate at all times they've turned on the man who actually took them there. It's idiotic. Anyone could do it though apparently..13 -
“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂9 -
Pep would hate not working with players day in day out. As would every other club manager.
His whole success revolves around a system and drilling it into the players every day.
He would go bonkers if he didn’t get a pre season, let alone week in week out sessions on the training pitch.
His brand of international football would have be very different to how his club sides play because he’d only get 6-8 weeks a year with the players.2 -
None of the recently successful managers on the international stage have been plucked out of successful club management.
The closest case in recent years is probably Roberto Mancini.
Spain tried it with Luis Enrique and didn’t fare any better than they would have previously.
The international game requires a different set of skills to the club game.3 -
Graham Potter, Steve Cooper or Lee Carsley is far more likely than Pep, Arteta, Klopp or whichever Premier League managers people want to throw out there.1
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People are entitled to different views, are they not?Garrymanilow said:Braziliance said:
It is just luck though. We have had extremely favourable runs. Nearly knocked out early by Colombia, then got arguably the easiest Euro run ever and got hammered by Italy, were lucky to see penalties, France were there for the taking and we lose to them. Nations league lost a difficult game. Everytime we face a team with a bit about them he fails the test, I think it's ridiculous he's been given a 4th attempt at a tournament.Garrymanilow said:
'Southgate would have been sacked if all the players he chose, coached and set the tactics for had not then gone on to win games' isn't really a gotcha take. It's his job to get the players to go on decent tournament runs and he hasBraziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I love watching England, but any manager would have got the results he had with the talent at our disposal. He's just another Dean Holden, great man but doesn't have that edge to win with a team imo. I'd love to be wrong, but last night was alarm bells. No Kane no party.
Italy played very exciting football in the Euros, France excellent in the world Cup, so were Argentina to watch. Germany in 2014 played great football, they pumped Brazil 7-1. Spain were a pleasure to watch and were and will remain the best international squad to ever exist.Scoham said:
He is unadventurous, but how many countries in recent years have one World Cups and Euros playing exciting attacking football? Without looking back a lot of the time teams get through by keeping it tight defensively and with narrow victories.Braziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I think in my lifetime the only two tournament wins where the sides played genuinely poor football was Greece 04 and Portugal 16. Every other team has looked the business.
I also didn't have expectations of the older England teams, they were absolutely terrible. During the 90s and early 00s when we had our 'golden generation' the world of football was at a much higher level, our squad was weak in comparison to the likes of Brazil, France, Germany, and it showed. 2008-2016 is undoubtedly the worst period of English football I think I'll ever witness. Southgate has landed himself a role where the other nations have significantly weakened, there are less world class players now, than there was before and he currently has two of them, and potentially two more at his disposal.
I expect a lot more from this England side as the competition is so poor in depth. Only France match us.Oh for God's sake. This relentlessly shit take again. When we win it's just luck and anyone could have done it, when we lose it's all Southgate's fault. Never mind that literally no manager ever since Sir Alf Ramsey has been able to do it, but apparently we've got a Dean Holden. 'Nearly knocked out by Colombia' is at least a fairly new terrible take. Matches in tournaments you 'nearly' lose are called wins. We beat them. Then we got to the semis for the first time since 1990 with Ashley Young at left wingback, Harry Maguire at centre back, Jesse Lingard in midfield and Raheem Sterling as a striker all with a manager who hadn't even been in charge for the full qualification campaign.Our run to the Euros final (for the first time in our history) included Germany. They apparently don't count as a good team when we beat them - they would have if we'd lost of course- but they are. A team full of Champions League and World Cup winners. We weren't hammered by Italy, that's a ridiculous thing to say. We scored early, were doing well and then let them build up a head of steam - at which point yes he should have made changes but didn't - and took them to penalties. Honestly, if Rashford had put his penalty on target we would have gone on to win that shootout but what can Southgate do about that? Even so, just a few years ago we would have killed to be a couple of penalty kicks away from lifting the Euros. In the World Cup again we were put out by a missed penalty against a very good but borderline unwatchable French side that got to the final through being incredibly difficult to beat. They don't play good football and they haven't for the entirety of Deschamps' time in charge. Famously. The Belgian squad even had a little tantrum about France playing 'anti-football' because of their defensive and miserable setup. Works though. Italy are also a team notoriously built on a solid defensive base, it's hilarious to act like they were some free-flowing team. Genuinely hilarious. They beat Austria 2-1 after extra time, the famous chokers Belgium 2-1, Spain on penalties after a 1-1 and us the same. There was one team in the knockouts they didn't need extra time or pens to beat.We've spent the last 60 years getting knocked out of tournaments by the likes of Iceland, not making it out of the group stages behind Romania, Uruguay and Costa Rica, sometimes not even qualifying at all and now we moan because when we win the games are too easy and we fall at the final hurdle when previously we weren't even making it to the race because we'd already tripped ourselves up and broken our legs. We breeze through qualifying serene and usually unbeaten when it used to be an absolute nightmare watching us even get to the bloody tournaments. The team have been made likeable and inspirational when before the national sport wasn't football, it was hating England footballers. England fans have just become ludicrously entitled again after a couple of decent runs in tournaments and because they need someone to hate at all times they've turned on the man who actually took them there. It's idiotic. Anyone could do it though apparently..
What I am reading - and have been well before this last result, was with the players available to him, Southgate has not realised their full potential, either through tactics or player selection. They have been the 'nearly men', when with their talent, they should have gone all the way.
Previous squads and tournaments years ago have got nothing to do with it.2 -
2018 - England were 14th favourites. Came 4thMajor said:
People are entitled to different views, are they not?Garrymanilow said:Braziliance said:
It is just luck though. We have had extremely favourable runs. Nearly knocked out early by Colombia, then got arguably the easiest Euro run ever and got hammered by Italy, were lucky to see penalties, France were there for the taking and we lose to them. Nations league lost a difficult game. Everytime we face a team with a bit about them he fails the test, I think it's ridiculous he's been given a 4th attempt at a tournament.Garrymanilow said:
'Southgate would have been sacked if all the players he chose, coached and set the tactics for had not then gone on to win games' isn't really a gotcha take. It's his job to get the players to go on decent tournament runs and he hasBraziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I love watching England, but any manager would have got the results he had with the talent at our disposal. He's just another Dean Holden, great man but doesn't have that edge to win with a team imo. I'd love to be wrong, but last night was alarm bells. No Kane no party.
Italy played very exciting football in the Euros, France excellent in the world Cup, so were Argentina to watch. Germany in 2014 played great football, they pumped Brazil 7-1. Spain were a pleasure to watch and were and will remain the best international squad to ever exist.Scoham said:
He is unadventurous, but how many countries in recent years have one World Cups and Euros playing exciting attacking football? Without looking back a lot of the time teams get through by keeping it tight defensively and with narrow victories.Braziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I think in my lifetime the only two tournament wins where the sides played genuinely poor football was Greece 04 and Portugal 16. Every other team has looked the business.
I also didn't have expectations of the older England teams, they were absolutely terrible. During the 90s and early 00s when we had our 'golden generation' the world of football was at a much higher level, our squad was weak in comparison to the likes of Brazil, France, Germany, and it showed. 2008-2016 is undoubtedly the worst period of English football I think I'll ever witness. Southgate has landed himself a role where the other nations have significantly weakened, there are less world class players now, than there was before and he currently has two of them, and potentially two more at his disposal.
I expect a lot more from this England side as the competition is so poor in depth. Only France match us.Oh for God's sake. This relentlessly shit take again. When we win it's just luck and anyone could have done it, when we lose it's all Southgate's fault. Never mind that literally no manager ever since Sir Alf Ramsey has been able to do it, but apparently we've got a Dean Holden. 'Nearly knocked out by Colombia' is at least a fairly new terrible take. Matches in tournaments you 'nearly' lose are called wins. We beat them. Then we got to the semis for the first time since 1990 with Ashley Young at left wingback, Harry Maguire at centre back, Jesse Lingard in midfield and Raheem Sterling as a striker all with a manager who hadn't even been in charge for the full qualification campaign.Our run to the Euros final (for the first time in our history) included Germany. They apparently don't count as a good team when we beat them - they would have if we'd lost of course- but they are. A team full of Champions League and World Cup winners. We weren't hammered by Italy, that's a ridiculous thing to say. We scored early, were doing well and then let them build up a head of steam - at which point yes he should have made changes but didn't - and took them to penalties. Honestly, if Rashford had put his penalty on target we would have gone on to win that shootout but what can Southgate do about that? Even so, just a few years ago we would have killed to be a couple of penalty kicks away from lifting the Euros. In the World Cup again we were put out by a missed penalty against a very good but borderline unwatchable French side that got to the final through being incredibly difficult to beat. They don't play good football and they haven't for the entirety of Deschamps' time in charge. Famously. The Belgian squad even had a little tantrum about France playing 'anti-football' because of their defensive and miserable setup. Works though. Italy are also a team notoriously built on a solid defensive base, it's hilarious to act like they were some free-flowing team. Genuinely hilarious. They beat Austria 2-1 after extra time, the famous chokers Belgium 2-1, Spain on penalties after a 1-1 and us the same. There was one team in the knockouts they didn't need extra time or pens to beat.We've spent the last 60 years getting knocked out of tournaments by the likes of Iceland, not making it out of the group stages behind Romania, Uruguay and Costa Rica, sometimes not even qualifying at all and now we moan because when we win the games are too easy and we fall at the final hurdle when previously we weren't even making it to the race because we'd already tripped ourselves up and broken our legs. We breeze through qualifying serene and usually unbeaten when it used to be an absolute nightmare watching us even get to the bloody tournaments. The team have been made likeable and inspirational when before the national sport wasn't football, it was hating England footballers. England fans have just become ludicrously entitled again after a couple of decent runs in tournaments and because they need someone to hate at all times they've turned on the man who actually took them there. It's idiotic. Anyone could do it though apparently..
What I am reading - and have been well before this last result, was with the players available to him, Southgate has not realised their full potential, either through tactics or player selection. They have been the 'nearly men', when with their talent, they should have gone all the way.
Previous squads and tournaments years ago have got nothing to do with it.
2021 - England were 7th favourites. Came 2nd
2022 - Lost to the reigning champions, who went on to come 2nd.Let’s not forget that those sides were not necessarily built on an outrageous bedrock of talent that we now realise. That is something that gets over inflated in hindsight.Did anyone really think Rice and Phillips of West Ham and Leeds respectively were world beaters 2-3 years ago?Or the likes of Ashley Young, Danny Rose and Jesse Lingard 6 years ago?
Only between 2022-2024 would I say we have a squad that absolutely has to to challenge to win tournaments. Between 2018-2021 we massively overachieved against expectation.0 -
2018 England were favourites in every knock out match -lost in semi
2021 England were favourites in every knock out match and lost in final
2022 England were favourites in every knock out match until they played France
yes we still have to win those matches but England never beat a team they’re under dogs to in the knockout stages .
separately in 1982 we managed to get knocked out without losing a match 🙄 there was a second 3 team group stage after the first set of group matches
Having kept 4 clean sheets on the spin after only letting in a goal in our first match in a 3-1 win v France .
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In fairness he has previously said he would love to be an international manager one day. I just don't think that time is for a few years yet.Callumcafc said:Pep would hate not working with players day in day out. As would every other club manager.
His whole success revolves around a system and drilling it into the players every day.
He would go bonkers if he didn’t get a pre season, let alone week in week out sessions on the training pitch.
His brand of international football would have be very different to how his club sides play because he’d only get 6-8 weeks a year with the players.
I don't know where else he goes though. He can't manage Madrid, he won't manage another PL club, he's already managed Bayern. So that only really leaves PSG or taking a stupid offer from Saudi.0 -
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Or Serie A.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
In fairness he has previously said he would love to be an international manager one day. I just don't think that time is for a few years yet.Callumcafc said:Pep would hate not working with players day in day out. As would every other club manager.
His whole success revolves around a system and drilling it into the players every day.
He would go bonkers if he didn’t get a pre season, let alone week in week out sessions on the training pitch.
His brand of international football would have be very different to how his club sides play because he’d only get 6-8 weeks a year with the players.
I don't know where else he goes though. He can't manage Madrid, he won't manage another PL club, he's already managed Bayern. So that only really leaves PSG or taking a stupid offer from Saudi.
I often wonder if he wants to prove to himself that he can dominate any of the major European leagues.0 -
Didn’t have to qualify in 66 (hosts) or 70 (winners) either…Mendonca In Asdas said:
We didn’t even qualify for the World Cup in 1974 or 1978, that was pretty darn rubbish, you’ve never had it so good! 😊Callumcafc said:Under Southgate we’ve won six knockout matches in three tournaments.
Colombia (on pens)
Sweden
Germany
Ukraine
Denmark (extra time)
Senegal
In the previous 14 tournaments (WC or Euro), we’ve won five knockout games.
Belgium (extra time)
Cameroon (extra time)
Spain (on pens)
Denmark
Ecuador
If you think it’s bad now, try following England through the 90s, 00s and early 10s…0 -
Frankly I think League One in England (not the cheap French imitation) would be the ultimate test of his powers.Arthur_Trudgill said:
Or Serie A.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
In fairness he has previously said he would love to be an international manager one day. I just don't think that time is for a few years yet.Callumcafc said:Pep would hate not working with players day in day out. As would every other club manager.
His whole success revolves around a system and drilling it into the players every day.
He would go bonkers if he didn’t get a pre season, let alone week in week out sessions on the training pitch.
His brand of international football would have be very different to how his club sides play because he’d only get 6-8 weeks a year with the players.
I don't know where else he goes though. He can't manage Madrid, he won't manage another PL club, he's already managed Bayern. So that only really leaves PSG or taking a stupid offer from Saudi.
I often wonder if he wants to prove to himself that he can dominate any of the major European leagues.3 -
There's something quite ironic about the fact that our sides used to rarely have that "value added" in abundance in midfield or up top but had a conveyor belt of world class keepers and defenders. Now we appear to have the complete opposite.
For example, the following keepers and defenders were in the 1982 WC squad:
Peter Shilton
Ray Clemence
Joe Corrigan
Phil Neal
Viv Anderson
Mick Mills
Terry Butcher
Phil Thompson
Steve Foster
Kenny Sansom
And the following never made the final squad:
Gary Bailey
Dave Watson - the most capped (65) player never to make an appearance in any WC Finals
Alvin Martin
Russell Osman
Steve Perryman
Tommy Caton
Derek Statham
Now compare the above to our respective 2022 cohort (some of these have struggled get even into the first team at their clubs):
Jordan Pickford
Nick Pope
Aaron Ramsdale
Kyle Walker
Luke Shaw
John Stones
Harry Maguire
Kieran Trippier
Eric Dier
Conor Coady
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Ben White
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Of course, but then if you post your opinion on a discussion forum it'll be discussed, often with opposing views and facts. On what basis have we not realised the players' full potential? We've had better players in the past and done far worse. For the past few tournaments we've had a very young squad. The third youngest at the Euros and the 8th at the World Cup. I'm not sure why people think this team has a divine right to win trophies. It's full of young players who have talent and potential but no extensive history in terms of success at their age. They have the weight and pressure of historical failure behind them which Southgate has done a lot to reduce but why do we think a defence including John Stones, Harry Maguire and Luke Shaw should be winning the World Cup? Is Jordan Pickford a world class keeper? Should the 19 year old Jude Bellingham, 22 year old Phil Foden and 21 year old Bukayo Saka be turning over the whole rest of the world? Even then we've tended to lose on fine margins, typically missed penalties as is our tradition, but this idea that the tournaments were there for the taking if not for that damn Southgate is English exceptionalism based on hopeful wishing and ignoring history and reality. Southgate definitely has his weaknesses but acting like the person who repeatedly gets us further than anyone has in over half a century is somehow the problem when the players fail to get over the line is just illogical thinking.Major said:
People are entitled to different views, are they not?Garrymanilow said:Braziliance said:
It is just luck though. We have had extremely favourable runs. Nearly knocked out early by Colombia, then got arguably the easiest Euro run ever and got hammered by Italy, were lucky to see penalties, France were there for the taking and we lose to them. Nations league lost a difficult game. Everytime we face a team with a bit about them he fails the test, I think it's ridiculous he's been given a 4th attempt at a tournament.Garrymanilow said:
'Southgate would have been sacked if all the players he chose, coached and set the tactics for had not then gone on to win games' isn't really a gotcha take. It's his job to get the players to go on decent tournament runs and he hasBraziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I love watching England, but any manager would have got the results he had with the talent at our disposal. He's just another Dean Holden, great man but doesn't have that edge to win with a team imo. I'd love to be wrong, but last night was alarm bells. No Kane no party.
Italy played very exciting football in the Euros, France excellent in the world Cup, so were Argentina to watch. Germany in 2014 played great football, they pumped Brazil 7-1. Spain were a pleasure to watch and were and will remain the best international squad to ever exist.Scoham said:
He is unadventurous, but how many countries in recent years have one World Cups and Euros playing exciting attacking football? Without looking back a lot of the time teams get through by keeping it tight defensively and with narrow victories.Braziliance said:Genuinely a poor, boring game of football. Our manager is unadventurous and would have been sacked long ago had an array of talent not got him some half decent tournament runs. Brazil looked extremely ordinary. The least exciting Brazil team I've ever watched I'd say, and we still couldn't beat them in what was an important friendly imo.
We won't win the Euros with Southgate in charge. Should get out of groups fairly comfortably, and then win our first knock-out game, but we will lose to any decent side further in the tournament imo.
I think in my lifetime the only two tournament wins where the sides played genuinely poor football was Greece 04 and Portugal 16. Every other team has looked the business.
I also didn't have expectations of the older England teams, they were absolutely terrible. During the 90s and early 00s when we had our 'golden generation' the world of football was at a much higher level, our squad was weak in comparison to the likes of Brazil, France, Germany, and it showed. 2008-2016 is undoubtedly the worst period of English football I think I'll ever witness. Southgate has landed himself a role where the other nations have significantly weakened, there are less world class players now, than there was before and he currently has two of them, and potentially two more at his disposal.
I expect a lot more from this England side as the competition is so poor in depth. Only France match us.Oh for God's sake. This relentlessly shit take again. When we win it's just luck and anyone could have done it, when we lose it's all Southgate's fault. Never mind that literally no manager ever since Sir Alf Ramsey has been able to do it, but apparently we've got a Dean Holden. 'Nearly knocked out by Colombia' is at least a fairly new terrible take. Matches in tournaments you 'nearly' lose are called wins. We beat them. Then we got to the semis for the first time since 1990 with Ashley Young at left wingback, Harry Maguire at centre back, Jesse Lingard in midfield and Raheem Sterling as a striker all with a manager who hadn't even been in charge for the full qualification campaign.Our run to the Euros final (for the first time in our history) included Germany. They apparently don't count as a good team when we beat them - they would have if we'd lost of course- but they are. A team full of Champions League and World Cup winners. We weren't hammered by Italy, that's a ridiculous thing to say. We scored early, were doing well and then let them build up a head of steam - at which point yes he should have made changes but didn't - and took them to penalties. Honestly, if Rashford had put his penalty on target we would have gone on to win that shootout but what can Southgate do about that? Even so, just a few years ago we would have killed to be a couple of penalty kicks away from lifting the Euros. In the World Cup again we were put out by a missed penalty against a very good but borderline unwatchable French side that got to the final through being incredibly difficult to beat. They don't play good football and they haven't for the entirety of Deschamps' time in charge. Famously. The Belgian squad even had a little tantrum about France playing 'anti-football' because of their defensive and miserable setup. Works though. Italy are also a team notoriously built on a solid defensive base, it's hilarious to act like they were some free-flowing team. Genuinely hilarious. They beat Austria 2-1 after extra time, the famous chokers Belgium 2-1, Spain on penalties after a 1-1 and us the same. There was one team in the knockouts they didn't need extra time or pens to beat.We've spent the last 60 years getting knocked out of tournaments by the likes of Iceland, not making it out of the group stages behind Romania, Uruguay and Costa Rica, sometimes not even qualifying at all and now we moan because when we win the games are too easy and we fall at the final hurdle when previously we weren't even making it to the race because we'd already tripped ourselves up and broken our legs. We breeze through qualifying serene and usually unbeaten when it used to be an absolute nightmare watching us even get to the bloody tournaments. The team have been made likeable and inspirational when before the national sport wasn't football, it was hating England footballers. England fans have just become ludicrously entitled again after a couple of decent runs in tournaments and because they need someone to hate at all times they've turned on the man who actually took them there. It's idiotic. Anyone could do it though apparently..
What I am reading - and have been well before this last result, was with the players available to him, Southgate has not realised their full potential, either through tactics or player selection. They have been the 'nearly men', when with their talent, they should have gone all the way.
Previous squads and tournaments years ago have got nothing to do with it.6 -
We were fortunate to get them to penalties,cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
As we were in 2012 as well.
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.
It's unlikely you win a major tournament if you don't control the middle of the pitch, something Southgates England sides struggle to do any time they play a decent side.
Until we get a manager who can get this side playing a way where you can win a tournament (dark arts or a tiki-take team) I don't see it happening.1 -
That's an amazing stat, though to be fair it was West Ham who won the 66 World Cup, so presumably the entire squad must have been made up of West Ham players...lordromford said:
I always find it amazing that, after qualifying for The World Cup 1962, England didn’t then successfully negotiate a set of World Cup qualifying games for twenty years until the 1982 tournament. This being due to not having to qualify for two tournaments (as hosts, then holders) then failing in the next two.Mendonca In Asdas said:
We didn’t even qualify for the World Cup in 1974 or 1978, that was pretty darn rubbish, you’ve never had it so good! 😊
Also, almost as amazing, 1982 was the first time England had ever been represented at a World Cup by an Arsenal player. (Kenny Sansom and Graham Rix were the first two)
Sorry, went a bit off topic, but I love crap like this!1 -
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
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Yeah...but....apart from that....CAFCTrev said:
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂5 -
In a Euro qualifier. Completely different level of game and intensity when in comparison to knock out football, where Italy historically hold their nerve better than we do.CAFCTrev said:
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
Italy are a far superior side to us at knock-out football and we were genuinely fortunate to get them to penalties the last two times.
The stats from 2012, not too dissimilar to the Euros final:
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Maybe but i think he'd want to be able to compete in the Champions league and with the money elsewhere in Europe the Italian sides can't really do that. I know Inter reached the final last year but that was because their route to the final was very easy. This year all of them out before the quarters.Arthur_Trudgill said:
Or Serie A.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
In fairness he has previously said he would love to be an international manager one day. I just don't think that time is for a few years yet.Callumcafc said:Pep would hate not working with players day in day out. As would every other club manager.
His whole success revolves around a system and drilling it into the players every day.
He would go bonkers if he didn’t get a pre season, let alone week in week out sessions on the training pitch.
His brand of international football would have be very different to how his club sides play because he’d only get 6-8 weeks a year with the players.
I don't know where else he goes though. He can't manage Madrid, he won't manage another PL club, he's already managed Bayern. So that only really leaves PSG or taking a stupid offer from Saudi.
I often wonder if he wants to prove to himself that he can dominate any of the major European leagues.
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There is no apart from that. I am genuinely not counting Euro qualifiers as an achievement.ValleyGary said:
Yeah...but....apart from that....CAFCTrev said:
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
Italy are better than us at football until proven otherwise in an important game.1 -
I actually agree with a lot of you're saying, when Gareth comes up against the strongest nations in a tourney, he loses.Braziliance said:
There is no apart from that. I am genuinely not counting Euro qualifiers as an achievement.ValleyGary said:
Yeah...but....apart from that....CAFCTrev said:
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
Probably the Germany second round game in Euro 2020 is the only game of that type he's won, and even that one could have caveats applied regarding the quality of the Germany team at that point in time.2 -
That is all I am saying. I will still root for England and have the belief we can win games, but I just think with the time he's had and the quality vs the competition, a good manager would have won us a trophy.CAFCTrev said:
I actually agree with a lot of you're saying, when Gareth comes up against the strongest nations in a tourney, he loses.Braziliance said:
There is no apart from that. I am genuinely not counting Euro qualifiers as an achievement.ValleyGary said:
Yeah...but....apart from that....CAFCTrev said:
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
Probably the Germany second round game in Euro 2020 is the only game of that type he's won, and even that one could have caveats applied regarding the quality of the Germany team at that point in time.
Agree on Germany, biggest England knock out win in my lifetime. That was a legitimate win we deserved against a powerhouse nation in football.
This tournament coming I would say France and Portugal are more likely than us. I'd also say with Germany being the host nation and the talent they have, I wouldn't be surprised if they won either.
If we had Pep, I'd be very confident we could win, unfortunately I think Southgate is too safe for a tournament win.
Talk of him being a premier league manager is crazy imho, I think he'd be sacked or relegated. There's no way he could handle a top job. Hopefully he gets the Palace job one day 😂1 -
brazil's forward players looked a lot more assured and dangerous than ours on Saturday - take kane out of it and the unfairly, in my opinion, maligned, sterling and we don't have a lot of stature up top and we still lack a truly creative central midfielder - i think we over rate our players - we miss the bits we've always missedCAFCsayer said:
This team is better than our "golden generation though" definitely going forward, and even more so if you look at it comparatively. We've probably got the best midfield/front line in the world at mom. OK our defence is pretty shot, but I think we need to play to our strengthsDOUCHER said:It’s easy to say we should be doing better but look at the ‘golden generation’ they did a lot less - the final against Italy was crying out for a change and he was rightly criticised for that but the facts suggest his tactics have got us further in more tournaments than any manager since Alf Ramsey1 -
We equally looked shaky against North Macedonia back in November when we drew 1-1 without Bellingham, and only started taking control when Kane came on with 30mins to go.DOUCHER said:
brazil's forward players looked a lot more assured and dangerous than ours on Saturday - take kane out of it and the unfairly, in my opinion, maligned, sterling and we don't have a lot of stature up top and we still lack a truly creative central midfielder - i think we over rate our players - we miss the bits we've always missedCAFCsayer said:
This team is better than our "golden generation though" definitely going forward, and even more so if you look at it comparatively. We've probably got the best midfield/front line in the world at mom. OK our defence is pretty shot, but I think we need to play to our strengthsDOUCHER said:It’s easy to say we should be doing better but look at the ‘golden generation’ they did a lot less - the final against Italy was crying out for a change and he was rightly criticised for that but the facts suggest his tactics have got us further in more tournaments than any manager since Alf Ramsey
We've got a decent amount of depth in the squad - But take out the handful of World Class players and we're ordinary0 -
England in loses to teams better than them shocker!
Next up, the HOT TAKE that League 1 Charlton aren't as good as Premier League Manchester City!
🙄5 -
We've got strength not depth, and that's where we are short as a squad, apart from keeper, the gap between first choice and the replacement is too big.
As for Southgate, I'd say he's a lot like Deschamp, both are football economists, and don't try and play expansive football, just that Deschamp has a bench that can get him out of trouble, in a way Southgate doesn't.2 -
Right, just to be clear, you’re happy to quote a 0-0 draw from 12 years ago as evidence that Italy are better than us, but won’t take our 2 wins in a competitive game that happened in the last 12 months?Braziliance said:
There is no apart from that. I am genuinely not counting Euro qualifiers as an achievement.ValleyGary said:
Yeah...but....apart from that....CAFCTrev said:
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
Italy are better than us at football until proven otherwise in an important game.
Fucking hell.3 -
Bit of a drastic comparison?sam3110 said:England in loses to teams better than them shocker!
Next up, the HOT TAKE that League 1 Charlton aren't as good as Premier League Manchester City!
🙄
The England squad contains players that play for champions league sides and champions league winners, along with generally, top Premier league players. Completely different calibre of comparison..
Yes because the two recent wins are in a qualifier, when the games vs Italy have been for all the marbles, we have come up short. Italy also have four world cups to their name and two euros titles. At this point It's in their DNA to win or do well at tournaments.ValleyGary said:
Right, just to be clear, you’re happy to quote a 0-0 draw from 12 years ago as evidence that Italy are better than us, but won’t take our 2 wins in a competitive game that happened in the last 12 months?Braziliance said:
There is no apart from that. I am genuinely not counting Euro qualifiers as an achievement.ValleyGary said:
Yeah...but....apart from that....CAFCTrev said:
We just beat them twice home and away. Convincingly at Wembley 3-1.Braziliance said:
Italy have always been better than us and even when they allegedly have an average side, play us off the park.cafctom said:“Hammered by Italy”
It was a 1-1 draw that we lost on penalties ffs 😂😂
Italy are better than us at football until proven otherwise in an important game.
Fucking hell.
I am pointing out it's an identity thing that we fail at major tournaments. When you stick with a manager that has added to disappointing nights, it sets the tone.
Southgate just doesn't have that big game manager aura about him. We are in a rare position where the likes of Brazil, Holland, Italy, Germany, Spain etc have less talented squads than us, and we appear to have one of the most talented squads in the world, yet we are gifting the opportunity to a manager who has no proof on his CV that he can get the job done for us.
We will know in a few months, and I am hopeful because he has a good enough squad to beat any side in the world. But tactically, he hasn't proven so far that he can get us to win. I don't expect that to change this upcoming tournament.1
