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England vs Brazil (C4) - KO: 7pm
Comments
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And from the 2022 cohort we've got, the England coaches have alienated possibly one of the best RB/CBs from wanting to be part of the squad.Addick Addict said:There's something quite ironic about the fact that our sides used to rarely have that "value added" in abundance in midfield or up top but had a conveyor belt of world class keepers and defenders. Now we appear to have the complete opposite.
For example, the following keepers and defenders were in the 1982 WC squad:
Peter Shilton
Ray Clemence
Joe Corrigan
Phil Neal
Viv Anderson
Mick Mills
Terry Butcher
Phil Thompson
Steve Foster
Kenny Sansom
And the following never made the final squad:
Gary Bailey
Dave Watson - the most capped (65) player never to make an appearance in any WC Finals
Alvin Martin
Russell Osman
Steve Perryman
Tommy Caton
Derek Statham
Now compare the above to our respective 2022 cohort (some of these have struggled get even into the first team at their clubs):
Jordan Pickford
Nick Pope
Aaron Ramsdale
Kyle Walker
Luke Shaw
John Stones
Harry Maguire
Kieran Trippier
Eric Dier
Conor Coady
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Ben White
And refuse to give chances to players because they play in a different country.0 -
Kane, Bellingham, Henderson all play in a different country, and Tomori was in the squad last time I think.SELR_addicks said:
And from the 2022 cohort we've got, the England coaches have alienated possibly one of the best RB/CBs from wanting to be part of the squad.Addick Addict said:There's something quite ironic about the fact that our sides used to rarely have that "value added" in abundance in midfield or up top but had a conveyor belt of world class keepers and defenders. Now we appear to have the complete opposite.
For example, the following keepers and defenders were in the 1982 WC squad:
Peter Shilton
Ray Clemence
Joe Corrigan
Phil Neal
Viv Anderson
Mick Mills
Terry Butcher
Phil Thompson
Steve Foster
Kenny Sansom
And the following never made the final squad:
Gary Bailey
Dave Watson - the most capped (65) player never to make an appearance in any WC Finals
Alvin Martin
Russell Osman
Steve Perryman
Tommy Caton
Derek Statham
Now compare the above to our respective 2022 cohort (some of these have struggled get even into the first team at their clubs):
Jordan Pickford
Nick Pope
Aaron Ramsdale
Kyle Walker
Luke Shaw
John Stones
Harry Maguire
Kieran Trippier
Eric Dier
Conor Coady
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Ben White
And refuse to give chances to players because they play in a different country.
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Kane and Henderson don't count as they made it into the squad from their exploits in England.North Lower Neil said:
Kane, Bellingham, Henderson all play in a different country, and Tomori was in the squad last time I think.SELR_addicks said:
And from the 2022 cohort we've got, the England coaches have alienated possibly one of the best RB/CBs from wanting to be part of the squad.Addick Addict said:There's something quite ironic about the fact that our sides used to rarely have that "value added" in abundance in midfield or up top but had a conveyor belt of world class keepers and defenders. Now we appear to have the complete opposite.
For example, the following keepers and defenders were in the 1982 WC squad:
Peter Shilton
Ray Clemence
Joe Corrigan
Phil Neal
Viv Anderson
Mick Mills
Terry Butcher
Phil Thompson
Steve Foster
Kenny Sansom
And the following never made the final squad:
Gary Bailey
Dave Watson - the most capped (65) player never to make an appearance in any WC Finals
Alvin Martin
Russell Osman
Steve Perryman
Tommy Caton
Derek Statham
Now compare the above to our respective 2022 cohort (some of these have struggled get even into the first team at their clubs):
Jordan Pickford
Nick Pope
Aaron Ramsdale
Kyle Walker
Luke Shaw
John Stones
Harry Maguire
Kieran Trippier
Eric Dier
Conor Coady
Trent Alexander-Arnold
Ben White
And refuse to give chances to players because they play in a different country.
Bellingham is one of the best players in the world and even then came in quite late in the day and forced Southgate's hand.
How many minutes has Tomori played in comparison to Lewis Dunk, Mings or Dier?
The only game Tomori started he kept a clean sheet against Italy so you can't even use his performance against him.0 -
I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude7
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The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude0 -
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude6 -
100%ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude0 -
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.0 -
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.2 -
The December 2022 where Arsenal were also top of the league with Ben White playing RB?ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.
It's not really form at this point.
The skill of a good coach is managing your players. Holland failed with White. Don't believe he 'spat his dummy out' and that's never been reported.0 -
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Unless there is evidence of Steve Holland being a wrong'un I think thats an unfair label to tag him with dont you?SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude5 -
ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interested in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
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Give the Arsenal love in a rest ffs.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
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May not have been wrong though to question White's mentality - Given all that Arsenal won last season was the "We led the Premier League longer than anyone else" trophy.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
Probably isn't good coaching on an individual basis - But if you want someone on the pitch giving it their all when the pressure gets too much, and you potentially know that one individual isn't overly fond of Football, are you going to want to rely on them, and may not want that mentality spreading amongst the rest of a squad that has limited time together.1 -
It's not exactly a secret that Ben White isn't happy if he's not playing. He's got no interest in being in a squad where he won't play because he's going to be backup to one of the best RBs in the world whose pace is completely essential to how we play. If he doesn't fancy being part of the squad on those terms and he's going to be shitty about it then it's probably best for both parties that he doesn't bother and someone happy to compete and seize on any opportunities that arise (like Konsa did against Brazil goes instead. He might not have liked a comment Holland made, that's up to him, but he's definitely contributed to his own isolation through not seeing the value in the experience without game time. It's his call in the end.3
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When you want your players to actually improve, is mocking them a good coaching technique to get them to buy into what you're doing?ForeverAddickted said:
May not have been wrong though to question White's mentality - Given all that Arsenal won last season was the "We led the Premier League longer than anyone else" trophy.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
Probably isn't good coaching on an individual basis - But if you want someone on the pitch giving it their all when the pressure gets too much, and you potentially know that one individual isn't overly fond of Football, are you going to want to rely on them?
If Ben White wasn't 'overly fond of football' he wouldn't be where he is today.
Why is Ben White not knowing much about a previous Manchester City season, mean that he's not 'sufficiently interested in football' to perform at a high level?0 -
I think you may have misunderstood that. The reports say that Holland was asking detailed tactical questions about how City set up to Kyle Walker. He asked White the same about Arsenal. The report you quoted literally says 'When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal'. Holland didn't ask White about City, he asked him about his own team.SELR_addicks said:
When you want your players to actually improve, is mocking them a good coaching technique to get them to buy into what you're doing?ForeverAddickted said:
May not have been wrong though to question White's mentality - Given all that Arsenal won last season was the "We led the Premier League longer than anyone else" trophy.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
Probably isn't good coaching on an individual basis - But if you want someone on the pitch giving it their all when the pressure gets too much, and you potentially know that one individual isn't overly fond of Football, are you going to want to rely on them?
If Ben White wasn't 'overly fond of football' he wouldn't be where he is today.
Why is Ben White not knowing much about a previous Manchester City season, mean that he's not 'sufficiently interested in football' to perform at a high level?
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You are right but the fact it's about the previous season still remains.Garrymanilow said:
I think you may have misunderstood that. The reports say that Holland was asking detailed tactical questions about how City set up to Kyle Walker. He asked White the same about Arsenal. The report you quoted literally says 'When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal'. Holland didn't ask White about City, he asked him about his own team.SELR_addicks said:
When you want your players to actually improve, is mocking them a good coaching technique to get them to buy into what you're doing?ForeverAddickted said:
May not have been wrong though to question White's mentality - Given all that Arsenal won last season was the "We led the Premier League longer than anyone else" trophy.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
Probably isn't good coaching on an individual basis - But if you want someone on the pitch giving it their all when the pressure gets too much, and you potentially know that one individual isn't overly fond of Football, are you going to want to rely on them?
If Ben White wasn't 'overly fond of football' he wouldn't be where he is today.
Why is Ben White not knowing much about a previous Manchester City season, mean that he's not 'sufficiently interested in football' to perform at a high level?
How does that matter in the current one? It's clear that Ben White doesn't care about the wider football world. He cares about his opposition at the weekend and his current set-up in the current squad. If anything, that's an advantage for a player that only cares about the game coming up rather than one distracted by outside noise.
The mark of a good coach is knowing your player's strengths and weaknesses.0 -
Ah the famous SELR pivot. I hardly think the fact it was about the previous season is relevant. 'Oh Ben, how did the team you played about 50 games for last season set up?' 'No idea mate, it was last season, I can't be expected to remember that' doesn't exactly reflect well on White. Though this is all irrelevant as we know that White would rather not come if he's going to sit on the bench and he's not getting in ahead of Walker. He's made his choiceSELR_addicks said:
You are right but the fact it's about the previous season still remains.Garrymanilow said:
I think you may have misunderstood that. The reports say that Holland was asking detailed tactical questions about how City set up to Kyle Walker. He asked White the same about Arsenal. The report you quoted literally says 'When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal'. Holland didn't ask White about City, he asked him about his own team.SELR_addicks said:
When you want your players to actually improve, is mocking them a good coaching technique to get them to buy into what you're doing?ForeverAddickted said:
May not have been wrong though to question White's mentality - Given all that Arsenal won last season was the "We led the Premier League longer than anyone else" trophy.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
Probably isn't good coaching on an individual basis - But if you want someone on the pitch giving it their all when the pressure gets too much, and you potentially know that one individual isn't overly fond of Football, are you going to want to rely on them?
If Ben White wasn't 'overly fond of football' he wouldn't be where he is today.
Why is Ben White not knowing much about a previous Manchester City season, mean that he's not 'sufficiently interested in football' to perform at a high level?
How does that matter in the current one? It's clear that Ben White doesn't care about the wider football world. He cares about his opposition at the weekend and his current set-up in the current squad. If anything, that's an advantage for a player that only cares about the game coming up rather than one distracted by outside noise.
The mark of a good coach is knowing your player's strengths and weaknesses.
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The famous false narrative. Hard to argue against something that's been invented out of thin air.Garrymanilow said:
Ah the famous SELR pivot. I hardly think the fact it was about the previous season is relevant. 'Oh Ben, how did the team you played about 50 games for last season set up?' 'No idea mate, it was last season, I can't be expected to remember that' doesn't exactly reflect well on White. Though this is all irrelevant as we know that White would rather not come if he's going to sit on the bench and he's not getting in ahead of Walker. He's made his choiceSELR_addicks said:
You are right but the fact it's about the previous season still remains.Garrymanilow said:
I think you may have misunderstood that. The reports say that Holland was asking detailed tactical questions about how City set up to Kyle Walker. He asked White the same about Arsenal. The report you quoted literally says 'When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal'. Holland didn't ask White about City, he asked him about his own team.SELR_addicks said:
When you want your players to actually improve, is mocking them a good coaching technique to get them to buy into what you're doing?ForeverAddickted said:
May not have been wrong though to question White's mentality - Given all that Arsenal won last season was the "We led the Premier League longer than anyone else" trophy.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
Probably isn't good coaching on an individual basis - But if you want someone on the pitch giving it their all when the pressure gets too much, and you potentially know that one individual isn't overly fond of Football, are you going to want to rely on them?
If Ben White wasn't 'overly fond of football' he wouldn't be where he is today.
Why is Ben White not knowing much about a previous Manchester City season, mean that he's not 'sufficiently interested in football' to perform at a high level?
How does that matter in the current one? It's clear that Ben White doesn't care about the wider football world. He cares about his opposition at the weekend and his current set-up in the current squad. If anything, that's an advantage for a player that only cares about the game coming up rather than one distracted by outside noise.
The mark of a good coach is knowing your player's strengths and weaknesses.
Where has that ever been stated in his career?0 -
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SELR_addicks said:
The famous false narrative. Hard to argue against something that's been invented out of thin air.Garrymanilow said:
Ah the famous SELR pivot. I hardly think the fact it was about the previous season is relevant. 'Oh Ben, how did the team you played about 50 games for last season set up?' 'No idea mate, it was last season, I can't be expected to remember that' doesn't exactly reflect well on White. Though this is all irrelevant as we know that White would rather not come if he's going to sit on the bench and he's not getting in ahead of Walker. He's made his choiceSELR_addicks said:
You are right but the fact it's about the previous season still remains.Garrymanilow said:
I think you may have misunderstood that. The reports say that Holland was asking detailed tactical questions about how City set up to Kyle Walker. He asked White the same about Arsenal. The report you quoted literally says 'When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal'. Holland didn't ask White about City, he asked him about his own team.SELR_addicks said:
When you want your players to actually improve, is mocking them a good coaching technique to get them to buy into what you're doing?ForeverAddickted said:
May not have been wrong though to question White's mentality - Given all that Arsenal won last season was the "We led the Premier League longer than anyone else" trophy.SELR_addicks said:ValleyGary said:
This happened at the World Cup in December 2022, so not sure what current form has got to do with it.SELR_addicks said:
Doubting the attitude of a player who is currently playing well at RB for one of the best teams of the league?ValleyGary said:
Steve Holland is regarded by a lot of players as a phenomenal coach, but you crack on with that weird arsenal obsession again.SELR_addicks said:
The man that came up with Dario Gradi as a mentor? Yeah I'll pass.ValleyGary said:I trust Steve Hollands judgement over Ben Whites attitude
If White's 'not interested in football' would love to know how good he'd be if he was.Holland wasn’t happy with White and White spat his dummy out. I don’t recall one other single incident putting England coaching staff in a bad light.Holland asked Kyle Walker a question relating to Manchester City’s performance in the previous season.
When he asked the same of White relating to Arsenal, the 26-year-old said that he did not know the answer. It is claimed Holland responded by saying that was because White was not sufficiently interested in football.
Telling the RB of the current leading Premier League side that he's not interest in football in front of his peers. Good coaching technique.
Probably isn't good coaching on an individual basis - But if you want someone on the pitch giving it their all when the pressure gets too much, and you potentially know that one individual isn't overly fond of Football, are you going to want to rely on them?
If Ben White wasn't 'overly fond of football' he wouldn't be where he is today.
Why is Ben White not knowing much about a previous Manchester City season, mean that he's not 'sufficiently interested in football' to perform at a high level?
How does that matter in the current one? It's clear that Ben White doesn't care about the wider football world. He cares about his opposition at the weekend and his current set-up in the current squad. If anything, that's an advantage for a player that only cares about the game coming up rather than one distracted by outside noise.
The mark of a good coach is knowing your player's strengths and weaknesses.
Where has that ever been stated in his career?In an Athletic article 11 days ago. 'The truth is that White had found it difficult being out of the side, not even necessarily the second-choice for his position, and struggling to settle in the kind of environment, a long way from home, that once led Steven Gerrard to describe tournament life with England as a “five-star prison”.' It's also stated that regarding the bust-up, 'he and Holland are said to have spoken afterward, however, to clear it up'. The article concludes saying 'Not everyone will understand his reasons and Southgate, a fierce patriot, may find it hard to fathom too, but the manager should also know from his own experiences that tournament life for a fringe player can be more challenging - and less fulfilling - than many people realise.'I don't even blame White if that's how he feels. Playing across four different competitions, constantly under media and fan scrutiny and then having to go away to a training camp where you'll train, take on new, different tactical information and ultimately probably not feature in a tournament abroad where you're away from your family for weeks. If you don't fancy that then fine, it doesn't have to be a big deal1 -
The other key thing about England under Southgate is that he’s been huge on creating an environment where everyone is good mates and wants to be there.
It only takes one lad sulking to bring the whole operation down.
I think White is a very good player and will probably go on to get multiple caps in the future. But he needs to either prove he’s the best in the country in his position to warrant selection or knuckle down and accept he’s currently back up.3 -
Another mystery player who can't make the England squad is Tomori. One of the best ball playing centre backs in the world, good tackler, quick, fairly strong and plays for AC Milan, as a mainstay, yet can't get in over the likes of Dunk..3
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To me i think both Holland and White are in the wrong, Holland was wrong to question the attitude of a player who plays week in week out for one of the best teams in the world, and White was wrong to throw away a potential international career at the age of 26.
But that said it's up to White. If he feels he's wasting his time because he knows that realistically when everyone is fit he's 5th choice behind Walker, Trent, Trippier and James then that's his decision. It's not what i would do because with Walker and Trippier getting on a bit, James always injured and Trent moving more into midfield i think there's a chance there for him, but it's his decision.
Also for those who say he isn't interested in football, that's a bit misleading. By all accounts he's a very dedicated trainer, is rarely injured and always gives his all on the pitch. He wouldn't have got to where he is today by not being interested. We hear a lot about players with talent who don't make it because they don't have the right mentality. So let's not pretend he's just winged his way into being a top level footballer.
I believe it's simply the case that he is someone who in his spare time doesn't watch other matches and he cares little for football outside his job. Which is absolutely fine and I'm sure a vast majority of the world switch off from their day job in their spare time.0 -
Historically England have tended to stick with “name” players who still get picked even if they are performing badly or are past their prime.There is also a major blind spot about only picking Premier league players, unlike the other home nations, even if the players are not getting game time with their clubs. We’ll still take injured players to tournaments because they are “name” players and “talismans”’rather than taking someone who is playing doing well, and then wonder why we don’t succeed.
The Premier league may be the “best league in the world” (TM) but having so few English players regularly playing for top flight clubs is bound to affect the national team.
That said, under Southgate, who is clearly doing something right, the England team have consistently performed better under him than at any time since 1966.
But there’s also exceptionalism at play here - and while “we” may have invented football, we haven’t been for a long time the best in the world at it, and I don’t think that will ever change now. As in so many other fields, we are no longer the best and never will be.
It’s a bit like in F1 where there are Teams battling it out for 3rd/4th/5th and that is their aim as they know they won’t get top two. We need to moderate our expectation which will be that getting to a semi final may be as far as we will ever get, but needs to be recognised for the success it is.
As others have said, being the manager of the international team is different to club management, which maybe why Southgate has done better as England boss than his time at Middlesbrough.1 -
I heard an interesting stat yesterday. The premiership left back with the most crosses into opponents penalty area this season is Alfie Doughty.
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To look at it another way though, if we consider the PL to be the best in the world, then the players that do play should surely therefore be amongst the worlds elite?EveshamAddick said:Historically England have tended to stick with “name” players who still get picked even if they are performing badly or are past their prime.There is also a major blind spot about only picking Premier league players, unlike the other home nations, even if the players are not getting game time with their clubs. We’ll still take injured players to tournaments because they are “name” players and “talismans”’rather than taking someone who is playing doing well, and then wonder why we don’t succeed.
The Premier league may be the “best league in the world” (TM) but having so few English players regularly playing for top flight clubs is bound to affect the national team.
That said, under Southgate, who is clearly doing something right, the England team have consistently performed better under him than at any time since 1966.
But there’s also exceptionalism at play here - and while “we” may have invented football, we haven’t been for a long time the best in the world at it, and I don’t think that will ever change now. As in so many other fields, we are no longer the best and never will be.
It’s a bit like in F1 where there are Teams battling it out for 3rd/4th/5th and that is their aim as they know they won’t get top two. We need to moderate our expectation which will be that getting to a semi final may be as far as we will ever get, but needs to be recognised for the success it is.
As others have said, being the manager of the international team is different to club management, which maybe why Southgate has done better as England boss than his time at Middlesbrough.
The vast majority of our first XI all play for clubs who are considered to be the best sides in the world. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern and Real Madrid. The only issues for us are that a) France's first XI is similarly made up of players at the best teams and b) our defence is a bit weak.2 -
I'd have him startingBraziliance said:Another mystery player who can't make the England squad is Tomori. One of the best ball playing centre backs in the world, good tackler, quick, fairly strong and plays for AC Milan, as a mainstay, yet can't get in over the likes of Dunk..0 -
At the very least he makes the bench for me. Its ridiculous to not have a player around the squad who plays for one of the biggest clubs in the world and will have knowledge of defending against different players that the rest of our squad are used to.CAFCsayer said:
I'd have him startingBraziliance said:Another mystery player who can't make the England squad is Tomori. One of the best ball playing centre backs in the world, good tackler, quick, fairly strong and plays for AC Milan, as a mainstay, yet can't get in over the likes of Dunk..
I do think it actually benefits some other top nations sometimes. That they tend to have squads who play all around the world and will have experience playing against most players. Whereas English players tend to stick to the prem. I am not saying its a massive advantage, but it wouldn't hurt our chances having Tomori. We'd then have Kane, Tomori and Bellingham all of which are playing top flight opposition each week from a different league.1 -
Yesterday though you were singing the praises of Italy and their squad is always primarily made up of players who play in Serie A. I think when they won the Euro's there was only Jorginho and Verratti who played abroad. When Spain were sweeping everyone aside from 2008-2012 their team with a couple of exceptions all played in Spain.Braziliance said:
At the very least he makes the bench for me. Its ridiculous to not have a player around the squad who plays for one of the biggest clubs in the world and will have knowledge of defending against different players that the rest of our squad are used to.CAFCsayer said:
I'd have him startingBraziliance said:Another mystery player who can't make the England squad is Tomori. One of the best ball playing centre backs in the world, good tackler, quick, fairly strong and plays for AC Milan, as a mainstay, yet can't get in over the likes of Dunk..
I do think it actually benefits some other top nations sometimes. That they tend to have squads who play all around the world and will have experience playing against most players. Whereas English players tend to stick to the prem. I am not saying its a massive advantage, but it wouldn't hurt our chances having Tomori. We'd then have Kane, Tomori and Bellingham all of which are playing top flight opposition each week from a different league.
I'm not sure it really matters much now given the Premier league has a ton of foreign players and most of our first XI play in the champions league on a regular basis.3
