Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Corey Blackett-Taylor - (p34 - signed for Derby on loan til the end of the season)
Comments
-
Corey Blackett-Taylor had lost his way at Tranmere after being highly rated at Villa in his youth career.
CBT had to pay his own expenses for a trial to come down to Sparrows lane. Mentally tough for a footballer who had 4 England U19 caps.
Good decision by someone at CAFC to offer him a contract that would've been modest.
His time at Charlton was a success. A fast two footed player who could go from looking like a world beater to a park footballer from 1 match to the next but his stats in his last two seasons at CAFC were impressive.
Never a wing back and I personally would've rotated him more to take on the weakest full back of the opposition and concentrate on being a forward/wideman/striker with less defensive responsibility.
It was right if we received half a million for him that he moved on as he really didn't fit in with the Nathan Jones template.
My opinion is he had a successful time at Charlton in a bang average team ( some say Shit team !)
Difficult start to his time at Derby as he does suffer with niggling issues and his confidence can dip.
5 -
Would be a good game changer from the bench if they want to send him back6
-
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.2 -
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.
0 -
Regardless of how good he was, and I liked him a lot, we did extremely well to get a fee in January for a player who didn't fit into our system, would have absolutely been dragged off by Jones when he didn't do his tracking and pressing, and was out of contract at the end of the season7
-
Especially if it was 400k as the Derby fan said, that’s half of what we reportedly got for May!Garrymanilow said:Regardless of how good he was, and I liked him a lot, we did extremely well to get a fee in January for a player who didn't fit into our system, would have absolutely been dragged off by Jones when he didn't do his tracking and pressing, and was out of contract at the end of the season1 -
Can’t blame an agent for getting his client a good/great deal. If anybody is to blame (this is not a dig at CBT or anybody else named in the thread) then the player has to carry it. Their agent gets them a good/great deal but that comes with an implied caveat that the step up in money requires a similar step up in performance, more so because when you move jobs you are working with new management, new colleagues and new systems -rocking up at any new job and not adapting quickly and earning your bigger salary isn’t an option whether it’s football or any other profession.
2 -
Although if CBT had stayed, as @soapboxsam suggested, NJ would surely tried to use him in the Tyreece Campbell role ?Garrymanilow said:Regardless of how good he was, and I liked him a lot, we did extremely well to get a fee in January for a player who didn't fit into our system, would have absolutely been dragged off by Jones when he didn't do his tracking and pressing, and was out of contract at the end of the season
That may have worked for him with his pace, control and shooting on the run ability?
5 -
But you ignore the rational basis for my (otherwise unproven) assumption. The point about the business model. Also in your case as a relative newcomer, you would not be aware that I ran my own small executive search consultancy, so I am keenly aware of the differences between the agent model and the mainstream search and recruitment business. And yet sometimes I still heard similar jibes about my sector. Indeed early on one creative guy said to my face "you live off the talent of people like me". He failed to remember that he wasn't paying me anything as in our case the "client" is the employer -and they paid me to evaluate how much talent the guy really possessed, before they interviewed him and potentially wasted an hour of their time.fenaddick said:
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.1 -
Sponsored links:
-
I take your point but agents will also get a cut for any contract renewals too, that’s also built into the business model.PragueAddick said:
But you ignore the rational basis for my (otherwise unproven) assumption. The point about the business model. Also in your case as a relative newcomer, you would not be aware that I ran my own small executive search consultancy, so I am keenly aware of the differences between the agent model and the mainstream search and recruitment business. And yet sometimes I still heard similar jibes about my sector. Indeed early on one creative guy said to my face "you live off the talent of people like me". He failed to remember that he wasn't paying me anything as in our case the "client" is the employer -and they paid me to evaluate how much talent the guy really possessed, before they interviewed him and potentially wasted an hour of their time.fenaddick said:
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.
I think ultimately with agents it comes down to if they’re short term or long term minded. CBT and Dobson’s agents have both taken the short term route, I would imagine Kanu or Anderson’s agents have taken the longer term.
All industries attract people who will prioritise their own short term gain, doesn’t make it fair to tarnish them all with the same brush.0 -
While that's of course true, the relative role of agents in the entire industry is outsize. For the year to Feb 24, the total amount of fees paid to agents by English clubs was £410 million. (Source ChatGPT, yes I know, but in this case I'd trust that result).fenaddick said:
I take your point but agents will also get a cut for any contract renewals too, that’s also built into the business model.PragueAddick said:
But you ignore the rational basis for my (otherwise unproven) assumption. The point about the business model. Also in your case as a relative newcomer, you would not be aware that I ran my own small executive search consultancy, so I am keenly aware of the differences between the agent model and the mainstream search and recruitment business. And yet sometimes I still heard similar jibes about my sector. Indeed early on one creative guy said to my face "you live off the talent of people like me". He failed to remember that he wasn't paying me anything as in our case the "client" is the employer -and they paid me to evaluate how much talent the guy really possessed, before they interviewed him and potentially wasted an hour of their time.fenaddick said:
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.
I think ultimately with agents it comes down to if they’re short term or long term minded. CBT and Dobson’s agents have both taken the short term route, I would imagine Kanu or Anderson’s agents have taken the longer term.
All industries attract people who will prioritise their own short term gain, doesn’t make it fair to tarnish them all with the same brush.0 -
Yeah but that will include some so called “super agents” which is a totally different thing to those in the lower leagues. CBT’s agent won’t have brokered a deal on behalf of the club in the same way as Haalands did when he moved to Man City for example. I am not pro agent by any means by the way, it’s just much more nuanced than you seem to want to believe.PragueAddick said:
While that's of course true, the relative role of agents in the entire industry is outsize. For the year to Feb 24, the total amount of fees paid to agents by English clubs was £410 million. (Source ChatGPT, yes I know, but in this case I'd trust that result).fenaddick said:
I take your point but agents will also get a cut for any contract renewals too, that’s also built into the business model.PragueAddick said:
But you ignore the rational basis for my (otherwise unproven) assumption. The point about the business model. Also in your case as a relative newcomer, you would not be aware that I ran my own small executive search consultancy, so I am keenly aware of the differences between the agent model and the mainstream search and recruitment business. And yet sometimes I still heard similar jibes about my sector. Indeed early on one creative guy said to my face "you live off the talent of people like me". He failed to remember that he wasn't paying me anything as in our case the "client" is the employer -and they paid me to evaluate how much talent the guy really possessed, before they interviewed him and potentially wasted an hour of their time.fenaddick said:
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.
I think ultimately with agents it comes down to if they’re short term or long term minded. CBT and Dobson’s agents have both taken the short term route, I would imagine Kanu or Anderson’s agents have taken the longer term.
All industries attract people who will prioritise their own short term gain, doesn’t make it fair to tarnish them all with the same brush.1 -
Oggy Red said:
Although if CBT had stayed, as @soapboxsam suggested, NJ would surely tried to use him in the Tyreece Campbell role ?Garrymanilow said:Regardless of how good he was, and I liked him a lot, we did extremely well to get a fee in January for a player who didn't fit into our system, would have absolutely been dragged off by Jones when he didn't do his tracking and pressing, and was out of contract at the end of the season
That may have worked for him with his pace, control and shooting on the run ability?
Maybe a 2nd half player similar to Chuks to lead the attack and commit the last defender. It alway seemed pointless CBT getting the ball too deep. In this stronger organized team with a plan now he could've been the X factor player.
Corey, like Alfie and George are history now and we move on to a stronger all round team 🤞
1 -
Who ? In all seriousness the quality of signing and style of football has increased dramatically since CBT was a guaranteed name on the sheet at Charlton.0
-
Define a great deal.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can’t blame an agent for getting his client a good/great deal. If anybody is to blame (this is not a dig at CBT or anybody else named in the thread) then the player has to carry it. Their agent gets them a good/great deal but that comes with an implied caveat that the step up in money requires a similar step up in performance, more so because when you move jobs you are working with new management, new colleagues and new systems -rocking up at any new job and not adapting quickly and earning your bigger salary isn’t an option whether it’s football or any other profession.
Is the wage more important or the "fit" more important?
Serious question.
Hypothetical scenario- I'm trying to help a player . A Very good player who is 21. Free Agent (previous club breached contract). He ideally wants to stay in Europe and is looking for around €10-€15k a week
But there is an offer from Saudi offering between €20 - €40k a week. He's a free agent so can move outside of the window but he just wants to play.
As his agent - would you suggest Saudi as the best bet for a year to bulk up the bank balance and MAYBE play with some legends? commission could be as much as 10% of wages so €2-4k a week
Or would you advise to stay in Europe and see if he can get €10k meaning a commission of maybe €1k a week
This is where you need to understand the motivation of the player. Are they money-driven or are they more interested in their career? This is when an agent earns his corn. Understanding the player and what they want should ALWAYS come first.
But, working in the industry, I see how too many agents think and I know which option they would go for
3 -
More nuanced than agents holding guns to players heads and making them sign contracts? Nah, surely not.fenaddick said:
Yeah but that will include some so called “super agents” which is a totally different thing to those in the lower leagues. CBT’s agent won’t have brokered a deal on behalf of the club in the same way as Haalands did when he moved to Man City for example. I am not pro agent by any means by the way, it’s just much more nuanced than you seem to want to believe.PragueAddick said:
While that's of course true, the relative role of agents in the entire industry is outsize. For the year to Feb 24, the total amount of fees paid to agents by English clubs was £410 million. (Source ChatGPT, yes I know, but in this case I'd trust that result).fenaddick said:
I take your point but agents will also get a cut for any contract renewals too, that’s also built into the business model.PragueAddick said:
But you ignore the rational basis for my (otherwise unproven) assumption. The point about the business model. Also in your case as a relative newcomer, you would not be aware that I ran my own small executive search consultancy, so I am keenly aware of the differences between the agent model and the mainstream search and recruitment business. And yet sometimes I still heard similar jibes about my sector. Indeed early on one creative guy said to my face "you live off the talent of people like me". He failed to remember that he wasn't paying me anything as in our case the "client" is the employer -and they paid me to evaluate how much talent the guy really possessed, before they interviewed him and potentially wasted an hour of their time.fenaddick said:
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.
I think ultimately with agents it comes down to if they’re short term or long term minded. CBT and Dobson’s agents have both taken the short term route, I would imagine Kanu or Anderson’s agents have taken the longer term.
All industries attract people who will prioritise their own short term gain, doesn’t make it fair to tarnish them all with the same brush.0 -
I think it's pretty obvious which offer the agent would prefer, but the player also has to agree and want the move, which is the point that's often missed.Swisdom said:
Define a great deal.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can’t blame an agent for getting his client a good/great deal. If anybody is to blame (this is not a dig at CBT or anybody else named in the thread) then the player has to carry it. Their agent gets them a good/great deal but that comes with an implied caveat that the step up in money requires a similar step up in performance, more so because when you move jobs you are working with new management, new colleagues and new systems -rocking up at any new job and not adapting quickly and earning your bigger salary isn’t an option whether it’s football or any other profession.
Is the wage more important or the "fit" more important?
Serious question.
Hypothetical scenario- I'm trying to help a player . A Very good player who is 21. Free Agent (previous club breached contract). He ideally wants to stay in Europe and is looking for around €10-€15k a week
But there is an offer from Saudi offering between €20 - €40k a week. He's a free agent so can move outside of the window but he just wants to play.
As his agent - would you suggest Saudi as the best bet for a year to bulk up the bank balance and MAYBE play with some legends? commission could be as much as 10% of wages so €2-4k a week
Or would you advise to stay in Europe and see if he can get €10k meaning a commission of maybe €1k a week
This is where you need to understand the motivation of the player. Are they money-driven or are they more interested in their career? This is when an agent earns his corn. Understanding the player and what they want should ALWAYS come first.
But, working in the industry, I see how too many agents think and I know which option they would go for
An agent can't force a player to sign for a club anymore than a club can force a player to go on loan.0 -
-
He did really well for us in a very average period of our history. Looking into it, how many of his big moments were against the top opposition in the league at the time? Look past the emotion of enjoyment he gave us in a bleak time, the lack of progress he’s had since he left doesn’t come as a surprise.
2 -
Sponsored links:
-
At times he pulled out some really good performances, but I agree. A lot of the players we had since Bowyer left may have come across as good/okay, but the bar was low. CBT had moments to suggest he was one of the better ones, but ultimately he doesn’t have the consistency or ability to deliver at the level we aspire to, or the one he currently finds himself in - it wouldn’t surprise me if he found himself back in league one this season on loan with a Reading or a Shrewsburydrawnablank said:He did really well for us in a very average period of our history. Looking into it, how many of his big moments were against the top opposition in the league at the time? Look past the emotion of enjoyment he gave us in a bleak time, the lack of progress he’s had since he left doesn’t come as a surprise.2 -
It was the right move to sell him as he didn't suit our system going forward or Nathan Jones' style of play, but lets not underplay how important he was for us. Without the 8 goals he scored for us last season, we would have been in an even more precarious position.
He's a perfect player for a team that plays 433 with inverted wingers. The previous season with CBT on the left and Rak-Sakhi on the right, we just needed a physical but mobile striker in the middle to have a very good strike force.4 -
How about those solo wasted chances where he cuts in misses the obvious pass option and puts it on row Z.Redhenry said:
Rose tinted.
Passable player nothing more.4 -
Wide players are like that, otherwise they would be in the premier league . CBT was an X factor player for us last season and under the current regime , I suspect he’d have done very well . He isn’t with us so we will never know .LTKapal said:
How about those solo wasted chances where he cuts in misses the obvious pass option and puts it on row Z.Redhenry said:
Rose tinted.
Passable player nothing more.0 -
You could argue that in so many jobs/business's. In my world, whilst there are some fee's rather than commission 95%+ of all insurance or Reinsurance that is placed Bia a broker is paid by brokerage, i.e. a percentage of the premium. On that basis the only incentive is to get the worst deal for your client.PragueAddick said:
But you ignore the rational basis for my (otherwise unproven) assumption. The point about the business model. Also in your case as a relative newcomer, you would not be aware that I ran my own small executive search consultancy, so I am keenly aware of the differences between the agent model and the mainstream search and recruitment business. And yet sometimes I still heard similar jibes about my sector. Indeed early on one creative guy said to my face "you live off the talent of people like me". He failed to remember that he wasn't paying me anything as in our case the "client" is the employer -and they paid me to evaluate how much talent the guy really possessed, before they interviewed him and potentially wasted an hour of their time.fenaddick said:
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.0 -
He scored 8 and assisted 9 according to statbank in about half a season. That’s very good for a winger regardless of missing a few chances to create a few more goals - for comparison Rak-Sakyi scored 15 and assisted 9 in a full season with us.LTKapal said:
How about those solo wasted chances where he cuts in misses the obvious pass option and puts it on row Z.Redhenry said:
Rose tinted.
Passable player nothing more.While JRS was clearly the better all round player, CBTs end product wasn’t an issue last season. No winger in this league gets 15/20 assists in half a season.13 -
The commission model varies across different businesses where who bears the cost of the commission charges and who controls the rate, can be different.The player/agent model in football at least favours the player as the club bears the cost of the fees. What players seem to ignore when ££££ signs appear, is that an agent cannot act as “adviser” and not be conflicted. Players would be better off with an adviser who gets a fee regardless, and an agent who is incentivised to do the best deal put forward by the player/adviser.Rob7Lee said:
You could argue that in so many jobs/business's. In my world, whilst there are some fee's rather than commission 95%+ of all insurance or Reinsurance that is placed Bia a broker is paid by brokerage, i.e. a percentage of the premium. On that basis the only incentive is to get the worst deal for your client.PragueAddick said:
But you ignore the rational basis for my (otherwise unproven) assumption. The point about the business model. Also in your case as a relative newcomer, you would not be aware that I ran my own small executive search consultancy, so I am keenly aware of the differences between the agent model and the mainstream search and recruitment business. And yet sometimes I still heard similar jibes about my sector. Indeed early on one creative guy said to my face "you live off the talent of people like me". He failed to remember that he wasn't paying me anything as in our case the "client" is the employer -and they paid me to evaluate how much talent the guy really possessed, before they interviewed him and potentially wasted an hour of their time.fenaddick said:
Remember you will only hear about bad agents, not good agents. Would suggest that the agents of most of our squad are good as they haven’t made any egregious errors but you won’t hear about them. Take last season, we must have had (at least) 25 players in the squad, 2 of their agents made big mistakes. The others didn’t. Kirk’s agent negotiated a pay off so his client could go home, Fraser’s is clearly making sure his contract is honoured etc. Of course some agents are wrong un’s and they get a cut of the things I mentioned above but I think this is a bit of a case of confirmation bias from you Prague. You believe most agents are bad and so when you see evidence of one or two of them being bad that means most of them arePragueAddick said:
Great, informed post. Other agents of Charlton players who have recently seemed to behave in the same way are- most spectacularly - Dobbo's, but also that clown who was Bonne's agent when he had his little purple patch coming up to the Jan window and we started to think he might be a "find".Swisdom said:
His agent is doing a great job of fucking up his career.WishIdStayedinthePub said:I may have this wrong, but didn't he struggle with a couple of clubs before us? If so, it's a lesson for players that, if it clicks somewhere, you might be better staying.
There's plenty of analogies in the 'real world' of work. But then we don't usually have the risk of a career ending injury and a 5-year insurance payout at current salary. I think that's what swings it in the end.
A happy player will perform better. At Villa he wasn't good enough, at Tranmere he was ok and got noticed, with us he was made to feel special and we got the best out of him.
His agent thought he was suddenly Billy Big Bollocks and that CBT was ready to conquer the world but I think deep-down, Corey needs to feel the love and a club like Derby has a very expectant crowd who clearly got on his back from the first minute and so he's gone backwards and is more withdrawn.
Yet another example of a player letting their agent tell them anything and believing the shit they spout. Some agents just want to move players around like a commodity for a commission whereas the good ones actually give a shit about the player and their welfare.
So the old question is, what is the ratio of "good" agents to the rest? My perception is that the good are a small minority. Given that I'm not remotely wired in to the football biz world, how can I rationally justify that claim? The answer is: the business model of the football agent sector is set up to attract wrong'uns, because the financial reward for moving players greatly outweighs the reward of helping them plan their careers for a fixed fee, thus allowing the agent to recommend staying put sometimes. Until that model is changed, which would now be extremely difficult, that's how it will be. And that is bad for football.Compared to the historic, and now illegal, pensions “adviser” model where the agent and the insurer decided how much to skim if the investor’s money and how to disguise it, player agents are pussy cats.1 -
None of the many professional/ informed critics of agent practice, such as Kieran Maguire (who has had a "good" agent on his podcast, who made similar remarks so admirably presented by @Swisdom above) has ever suggested that agents "force" players to do anything. And neither do I. They possess as natural attributes the same powers and techniques of persuasion that are common in e.g. real estate agents, and the old type of "Personal Financial Adviser". The "not so good ones", are also well aware of the fact that most footballers do not have an educational or family background that equips them well to deal with matters of personal finance and a sudden increase in disposable income, and take advantage of that. Interestingly Dobbo is apparently seen as far better equipped than most players ("bright boy, comes from money") and yet he signed that pre-contract.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I think it's pretty obvious which offer the agent would prefer, but the player also has to agree and want the move, which is the point that's often missed.Swisdom said:
Define a great deal.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can’t blame an agent for getting his client a good/great deal. If anybody is to blame (this is not a dig at CBT or anybody else named in the thread) then the player has to carry it. Their agent gets them a good/great deal but that comes with an implied caveat that the step up in money requires a similar step up in performance, more so because when you move jobs you are working with new management, new colleagues and new systems -rocking up at any new job and not adapting quickly and earning your bigger salary isn’t an option whether it’s football or any other profession.
Is the wage more important or the "fit" more important?
Serious question.
Hypothetical scenario- I'm trying to help a player . A Very good player who is 21. Free Agent (previous club breached contract). He ideally wants to stay in Europe and is looking for around €10-€15k a week
But there is an offer from Saudi offering between €20 - €40k a week. He's a free agent so can move outside of the window but he just wants to play.
As his agent - would you suggest Saudi as the best bet for a year to bulk up the bank balance and MAYBE play with some legends? commission could be as much as 10% of wages so €2-4k a week
Or would you advise to stay in Europe and see if he can get €10k meaning a commission of maybe €1k a week
This is where you need to understand the motivation of the player. Are they money-driven or are they more interested in their career? This is when an agent earns his corn. Understanding the player and what they want should ALWAYS come first.
But, working in the industry, I see how too many agents think and I know which option they would go for
An agent can't force a player to sign for a club anymore than a club can force a player to go on loan.0 -
A friend of mine and I seriously considered going into the business. He has five close relatives who are professional footballers, has been involved with coaching (including quite a few of our past and current players) so he was bringing the football side. He told me from the inside how bad the advice was, generally. As you say, too many take advantage of the lack of maturity and educational background.PragueAddick said:
None of the many professional/ informed critics of agent practice, such as Kieran Maguire (who has had a "good" agent on his podcast, who made similar remarks so admirably presented by @Swisdom above) has ever suggested that agents "force" players to do anything. And neither do I. They possess as natural attributes the same powers and techniques of persuasion that are common in e.g. real estate agents, and the old type of "Personal Financial Adviser". The "not so good ones", are also well aware of the fact that most footballers do not have an educational or family background that equips them well to deal with matters of personal finance and a sudden increase in disposable income, and take advantage of that. Interestingly Dobbo is apparently seen as far better equipped than most players ("bright boy, comes from money") and yet he signed that pre-contract.Stu_of_Kunming said:
I think it's pretty obvious which offer the agent would prefer, but the player also has to agree and want the move, which is the point that's often missed.Swisdom said:
Define a great deal.letthegoodtimesroll said:Can’t blame an agent for getting his client a good/great deal. If anybody is to blame (this is not a dig at CBT or anybody else named in the thread) then the player has to carry it. Their agent gets them a good/great deal but that comes with an implied caveat that the step up in money requires a similar step up in performance, more so because when you move jobs you are working with new management, new colleagues and new systems -rocking up at any new job and not adapting quickly and earning your bigger salary isn’t an option whether it’s football or any other profession.
Is the wage more important or the "fit" more important?
Serious question.
Hypothetical scenario- I'm trying to help a player . A Very good player who is 21. Free Agent (previous club breached contract). He ideally wants to stay in Europe and is looking for around €10-€15k a week
But there is an offer from Saudi offering between €20 - €40k a week. He's a free agent so can move outside of the window but he just wants to play.
As his agent - would you suggest Saudi as the best bet for a year to bulk up the bank balance and MAYBE play with some legends? commission could be as much as 10% of wages so €2-4k a week
Or would you advise to stay in Europe and see if he can get €10k meaning a commission of maybe €1k a week
This is where you need to understand the motivation of the player. Are they money-driven or are they more interested in their career? This is when an agent earns his corn. Understanding the player and what they want should ALWAYS come first.
But, working in the industry, I see how too many agents think and I know which option they would go for
An agent can't force a player to sign for a club anymore than a club can force a player to go on loan.
His view was, because it's a bit of a racket, it's not easy to break into. Similar issues to opening a bar or a club in the West End ....1 -
If he stayed all season and kept up those numbers he should have won League 1 player of the year ahead of May, it's a crazy high production number for a winger. To put it into perspective over the entire season Palmer got 33 goal involvements in the Premier League last year, and many argued he should have won PL Player of the Season.Scoham said:
He scored 8 and assisted 9 according to statbank in about half a season. That’s very good for a winger regardless of missing a few chances to create a few more goals - for comparison Rak-Sakyi scored 15 and assisted 9 in a full season with us.LTKapal said:
How about those solo wasted chances where he cuts in misses the obvious pass option and puts it on row Z.Redhenry said:
Rose tinted.
Passable player nothing more.While JRS was clearly the better all round player, CBTs end product wasn’t an issue last season. No winger in this league gets 15/20 assists in half a season.3
