I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

Redmidland said:

PWR, those who advocate sacking NJ, who do you suggest comes in? There is no outstanding candidate that I can see that's realistic. We keep changing managers on a far to regular basis, and it hasn't worked! We've been crap for years, we've tried up and coming managers, in Garner, Jackson, and Holden. We've tried old stagers in Slade and Appleton. We keep sacking them and their replacements, after a new manager bounce, then flop and off we go again.
When NJ was appointed a large majority of fans were happy, me included, he dragged us out of the mire last season and we started this season  quite well, albeit the football was poor, but we ground out positive results.
Now we're playing poor and losing, so it seems our natural reaction is to shuffle the deckchairs again. What's to say another person at the helm will have any different outcome, only Bowyer, recently has had any success and that didn't last!
We, apparently, have filthy rich owners, so why was recruitment so poor in the summer. We know NJ wanted at least 2 quality keepers, he didnt get them, what else did he want that he didn't get. No one, me included, knows the truth about May and Dobbo and why they left, CBT had gone before NJ arrived.
My thoughts are to get rid of Scott, CM and Rodwell, get a proper DoF in and ask the owners to back NJ and the new DoF to get quality players in during January. 
Transfer or loan out, Docherty, Gillesphey, Anderson and Kanu, send A.Campbell, Potts back to whence they came. 
Bring in a leftsided CB to play alongside Jones and Ramsay, get 2 playmakers in to play in midfield, leave Hylton as a coach only, get in a proven young striker, and use the PL for quality loans. 
Give NJ the full season and have faith in him to deliver.
Sorry for the long post, but we can't keep changing managers it's not worked, and as the old saying goes, 'If u keep doing what you've always done, you'll always get the same results you've always got'  (or words to that effect).

I understand the desire to support NJ but a lot of the stuff you've outlined there that needs to change are his deliberate choices. No PL loans, no playmakers in midfield, bringing in the hopeless ex-Luton contingent, reinventing Docherty.

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

queensland_addick said:

If we go back to the start of the season, we were solid, but drab and lacked one vital element, a creative spark.
Since then, Leaburn has returned, which should have actually improved the forward line.
Granted, we miss Jones badly, but a centre half being out temporarily, shouldn't derail a whole season.

Everything has fallen apart because we have never found that missing creative spark, it simply doesn't exist at the club at this time, due to terrible recruitment.
You cannot win games if you cannot score a goal in the first half of a game, and are always having to come from behind, or waiting to bring on subs in the 65th minute of games.

Attack is the best form of defence.

But we simply cannot retain the ball in the final third. There is a disconnect between the midfield and forward line. It needed to be identified and fixed early on before the rot set in, before players started losing confidence and stop giving 100%.
That didn't happen and we are now in a downward spiral with Jones clutching at straws.

Aside from 2-3 games we've been poor all season. Even when we were sneaking 1-0 wins early on in the season, there was always the nagging doubt 'this is ok whilst we're winning but what happens when the luck runs out or we concede goals'. And now that's happened.

Basically if we concede a goal then we're screwed because not once all season in the league have we won a game when we've conceded.

Agreed, but what I'm saying is that we had the basis of a side in those first few games. 
Defensively solid, pressed, worked extremely hard and seemed to be fitter than the opposition.
But we all knew that we couldn't keep it up, that we had to start creating more chances and scoring more than 1 goal in a game.
That lack of creativity has never been addressed, or even acknowledged as being a problem by Jones.

That would be my argument for ditching Jones. How can he expect us to be successful without some creativity, pace or skill in the midfield.?

Anderson and Taylor are the only ones who come close to fulfilling that requirement.

But he won't play Taylor and Anderson isn't ready yet.

Redmidland said:

PWR, those who advocate sacking NJ, who do you suggest comes in? There is no outstanding candidate that I can see that's realistic. We keep changing managers on a far to regular basis, and it hasn't worked! We've been crap for years, we've tried up and coming managers, in Garner, Jackson, and Holden. We've tried old stagers in Slade and Appleton. We keep sacking them and their replacements, after a new manager bounce, then flop and off we go again.
When NJ was appointed a large majority of fans were happy, me included, he dragged us out of the mire last season and we started this season  quite well, albeit the football was poor, but we ground out positive results.
Now we're playing poor and losing, so it seems our natural reaction is to shuffle the deckchairs again. What's to say another person at the helm will have any different outcome, only Bowyer, recently has had any success and that didn't last!
We, apparently, have filthy rich owners, so why was recruitment so poor in the summer. We know NJ wanted at least 2 quality keepers, he didnt get them, what else did he want that he didn't get. No one, me included, knows the truth about May and Dobbo and why they left, CBT had gone before NJ arrived.
My thoughts are to get rid of Scott, CM and Rodwell, get a proper DoF in and ask the owners to back NJ and the new DoF
to get quality players in during January. 
Transfer or loan out, Docherty, Gillesphey, Anderson and Kanu, send A.Campbell, Potts back to whence they came. 
Bring in a leftsided CB to play alongside Jones and Ramsay, get 2 playmakers in to play in midfield, leave Hylton as a coach only, get in a proven young striker, and use the PL for quality loans. 
Give NJ the full season and have faith in him to deliver.
Sorry for the long post, but we can't keep changing managers it's not worked, and as the old saying goes, 'If u keep doing what you've always done, you'll always get the same results you've always got'  (or words to that effect).

What you appear to be advocating is a rip it up and start again approach.
But Jones assembled the squad that he wanted, and he's on record for thanking the board for fully backing him in bringing in the players that he wanted.
I too do not want the managerial merry go round to continue.
If Jones were to come out and say "on reflection, I got the recruitment wrong, but bear with me and we'll try to address that in the January window", then I'd be more than happy to stick with the guy and give him more time.
But he refuses to acknowledge that there's a problem and does nothing at all to try to rectify the problem.

You're on the hooch a bit early Randy?

O-Randy-Hunt said:

NJ may not be picking us up any points at the moment but at least we can take some positives in the way he has us playing. We just aren't getting the rub of the green at the minute and I feel we are just a game or 2 away from hylton/gass tearing this league apart once our creative midfield click.

People have been saying that for weeks now 

Leuth said:

"We need to keep trying with this manager and style of play until next November because it's time to stop sacking managers"

It’s time to start winning or we will be in League2 next November.

oohaahmortimer said:

Any new manager would do well to make us worse than we currently are , the players aren’t great but they’re better than the constant dross we’re served up .
we are underperforming 

We say this season after season. 

eaststandmike said:

BR7_addick said:

Arsenetatters said:

BR7_addick said:

paulsturgess said:

BR7_addick said:

Nathan Jones is doing terrible.
But I don’t want him sacked and we start yet another cycle.  

For once, we go against our feelings and the modern football instant success lust and give someone some time.  

It’ll be shit now, it might even get worse, but time, let’s give that a go now.

I don’t want the cycle , but you’re literally saying to keep someone who is clearly inept for the sake of not changing which

there is nothing absolutely zero to give us hope or indication that he can or will improve going forward 

I’m saying he’s inept right now, but it’s still only been what 9 months?  What’s to say there isn’t going to be an improvement if we actually back someone through a bad patch for once?  

I’d asses it end of next season.  I know it seems bonkers right now, but the managerial merry go round has to be stopped.  

Leave it until next season and in league two we will dream of being in league one again. 

We do the league 2 flap every season.  It won’t happen, relax.  

A poster on a Wrexham thread said “Wrexham will not finish above us, FACT”

Thats going well 

You could get promoted and finish below Wrexham, they’re flying.  

By the way, there is a nuance to all this.  

I get my rather rambling post has upset or annoyed some people and I understand your counter arguments. All I would say is when do we stop the managerial merry go round? Yes NJ has made mistakes, I don't deny that, but unless someone has a standout name to come in and turn it around were kidding ourselves. 
If, and it's a big If, there is a standout candidate, then I guess in a few months time we'll be calling for yet another change and it'll go on and on. We missed 2 absolute sitters yesterday  and AMB is a keeper I have no faith in.
Anyway it's a forum and we have different opinions and I respect others pov's.
Perhaps because of my illness I'm more tolerant nowadays, so I'm currently prepared to give NJ time, I can't say how long that'll last though!

Redmidland said:

PWR, those who advocate sacking NJ, who do you suggest comes in? There is no outstanding candidate that I can see that's realistic. We keep changing managers on a far to regular basis, and it hasn't worked! .

Not sure where I am on the Jones stay or go point at present other than his results are not good enough and antics on the sideline come across as petulant rather than passionate when the chips are down.

But on this specific point - I've never really thought it is relevant what fans think....most of us aren't in a position to know who is available/ would come in.  I am Charlton through and through and follow everything about the club but have a full time job and very little time to follow/ study the ins and outs of the football league.

Point being we have a well paid (I expect) Senior Management Team for which an integral role is succession planning and maintaining an ongoing and up to date shortlist of whom is available/ may be interested and when...or should do given how high managerial turnover is is the modern game.

Keeping a poor manager because us fans don't know who would replace them isnt really a material factor.  At the same time it relies on having a management team capable of making such appointments which let's face it is a lottery nowadays whether you look a Charlton or behemoths like man united. I think it is just a dice roll and lotto and today's hot property soon becomes yesterday's man after a failed season or too in football.

Millwall and Palace have recycled and changed managers with one knocking on the door of Championship playoffs having rehired a previous club hero and another spending their umpteenth season in the premier league whilst we languish in our increasingly natural home of league one.

I would never have got rid of Powell or Jackson and think Holden was probably given too little time but am agnostic about all of the other departures other than them in the last 15 years.

Whether we should stick with an underperforming manager who has assembled a mediocre squad that is playing turgid football and not winning week in week alienated the league's top scorer and believes Tyreece Campbell is a striker and a bunch of Luton old boys  are the answer is a separate question....but absence of fans' knowledge in who is available/ would be better isn't really a consideration as it is one that should be the sole responsibility of the people running the circus. It is literally their job and responsibility to ensure they are all over this given that the manager is perhaps the most important role at a football club.

Bob wrote that in October 2019 and passed it on to the Stoke management and Nathan Jones left shortly afterwards 

oohaahmortimer said:

Bob wrote that in October 2019 and passed it on to the Stoke management and Nathan Jones left shortly afterwards 

You may say that - I couldn't possibly comment!