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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
Comments
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We are only 4 points away from the bottom 4. I can't see any way we go down but if we lose Saturday we're looking in trouble.Radostanradical said:
Will be interesting to see what happens if we lose to Mansfield on Saturday, its a new low point I'm actually fearful as a Charlton fan about what Mansfield (no disrespect) might do to us on Saturday.CoveredEnd1905 said:I'll be amazed if he stays if we lose on Saturday. Crawley last week had that real Northampton and Accrington Stanley feel to it when Appleton and Adkins were sacked. Any more hostility in the ground and I don't see a way back (if there is one now)
I for once, actually hope I'm wrong, I hope this will all click for Jones and Charlton, that we go on a winning streak and push up the league. I just can't see it.
All that said back to your original point re him being sacked id be amazed as he is on a 4 year contract and very well paid by all accounts, thats a big pay off and the whole time we arent in a relegation fight i feel its a very get out by the SMT to fall back on terms like "long term project" and "building". I doubt he will walk either even though after Birmingham it seemed like he was threatening to.
Crawley tore us apart last week, Burton and Shrewsbury were both awful and we scraped past them. We have enough quality to be confident about not going down but we're certainly not out of that picture.
Scoring 3 first half goals in the league this season is absolutely appalling.0 -
I just don't understand how we are this bad under Jones. How has this man taken a side from League 2 to the Championship Playoffs. Our issues are so glaringly obvious but they never get fixed and remain game to game.5
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This has a feeling of inevitability to it now. Chances of him turning this round and it ending in happiness and unicorns seems close to zero.2
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That interview really pissed me off as well but I'm surprised what people are focusing on is all the athleticism and defensive record stuff. What really got me was 'I've learned a lot tonight. The squad I've inherited, players I've inherited that, you know, you can't change everything overnight. That's proved today. I've learned a lot tonight'. Firstly, I don't believe he's learned anything based on that sentence.Secondly, I bought it last season when he had the likes of Thomas, Bakinson, Ladapo and Ness to rely on but him still banging on about an inherited squad after the summer is insane. Just last night we had 5 players in the first team that he brought in: Potts, Small, Godden, Berry and Docherty. Three of those he'd worked with before, one he wanted to replace our main striker and the player he brought in to be his captain. In comparison against Lincoln there were only 4 of his signings who started and we got a better result. If not for injuries it would be more of his players in the lineup as well. Most galling, the players who have performed best for us this season generally were there before him and in some cases were unwanted. Coventry came in before him, Lloyd Jones was already here and Terry Taylor has only managed to break in through injury and other midfielders being so poor they just couldn't be allowed to play. Kanu, Tyreece, Anderson and Leaburn are generally trusted over others when available and Zach Mitchell was breaking through before his injury.There's been some good signings. Mannion was an improvement until his injury, Ramsay. Godden and Alex Mitchell have been decent, Edwards solid but Berry, Docherty, ACampbell and Ahadme need to show a lot more and Potts and Hylton are just space fillers. Jones can and will claim that he never got the LCB he needed and he'll point to injuries meaning that he's on his 4th choice RB at the moment, a keeper he would gladly have sold if anyone wanted him and the belief he doesn't have the depth he wants in terms of key attributes but it feels like a very hollow complaint when a fully fit team of Jones players would likely mean a midfield involving Docherty, ACampbell and Berry and wouldn't make anyone happy for a second. He'll keep blaming personnel until there's not a single player there who he didn't sign and the way things are going he's not going to outlast all those players. It doesn't bode well if we're back on last season's talking points as excuses13
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I agree, definitely sack him now not wait for Saturday. If anything, removing him from the dressing room might give the players the lift they need.Braziliance said:Needs to go now, I don't understand the logic of waiting for a Mansfield result. Win, lose or draw, he's lost the fans and the team by the looks of it.
Mansfield are on a terrible run, a small blip win shouldn't change that. Sack him now, and give the new manager a chance with a transfer window. There's a 0% chance we get promoted, yet there's now a genuine chance of relegation. A new manager could still change that with the points left to earn.
I've never been more wrong about a manager in my life. I was 100% confident he was going to change us, but he's absolutely woeful, just tailor made for Luton for whatever reason. When/if he goes back, he should never leave again.4 -
The script is already written. We’ll win or at least not lose v Mansfield and the wagon train will blunder on. We won’t be fluid or look dominant but we’ll do enough. The big question is does Jones have what it takes to turn his rag tag group of underperforming players into something worth watching or that can challenge. How do we know that Jones didn’t say up front that it would take time and wouldn’t be pretty at interview ? The owners might not be quite as pissed off as we are.2
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I think the inherited comment was aimed at the board. I think he identified targets he didn't get in the summer and I'm not convinced a lot of the players we see as "his" picks were first choice. I think he wanted Docherty, Potts, Berry & Godden for sure. Dixon was clearly not a Jones signing and I'm on the fence about if Ahadme & Edwards were or not. Campbell I think was a back up option to who he actually wanted and Mannion definitely wasn't meant to be starting for us.
None of this is an excuse or a defence but I think that part of the interview wasn't meant for us, it was meant for Scott and the board1 -
The style of play he wanted and his recruitment never matched, he talked about this high press energetic style and we sign players like Gas and Berry who have no energy in them.
Gives that up after October for long ball hit and hope and this is where we are. We are constantly outplayed and offer little, most weeks we get abuse from other teams about how bad we are and we can all see it.
The man is clueless and needs to go but I cant see them pushing him out as they have to admit they were wrong and they have egos just as big as his0 -
Doesn’t matter how big the egos are. Jones fails and they go down with him. Easier to pin the blame on him than take the flak themselves. Chairmen have been doing exactly that for years.Carl_bratton said:The style of play he wanted and his recruitment never matched, he talked about this high press energetic style and we sign players like Gas and Berry who have no energy in them.
Gives that up after October for long ball hit and hope and this is where we are. We are constantly outplayed and offer little, most weeks we get abuse from other teams about how bad we are and we can all see it.
The man is clueless and needs to go but I cant see them pushing him out as they have to admit they were wrong and they have egos just as big as his0 -
Ahadme was second choice behind Theo Bair. He ended up going to the French top division though so that doesn't feel like it was ever realistic. He can direct it at the board all he wants but they'll see the same thing. Nearly half the starting 11 his players and performances indistinguishable between when he does and doesn't have a fully fit squad. I think there's much smarter ways to get money released than what he's gone with there and if you go after the board you want to get a bit of fan support behind you with it, not further alienate an already annoyed fanbase. It's not his best work.fenaddick said:I think the inherited comment was aimed at the board. I think he identified targets he didn't get in the summer and I'm not convinced a lot of the players we see as "his" picks were first choice. I think he wanted Docherty, Potts, Berry & Godden for sure. Dixon was clearly not a Jones signing and I'm on the fence about if Ahadme & Edwards were or not. Campbell I think was a back up option to who he actually wanted and Mannion definitely wasn't meant to be starting for us.
None of this is an excuse or a defence but I think that part of the interview wasn't meant for us, it was meant for Scott and the board
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He's come here, fleeced us of god knows how much money, fucked the team and now he wants off. What a prick.6
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I agree with you. In saying that I expected more from Jones and hoped he would be tactically better than Appleton and improve young players, which hasn't happened. Shocked Jones hasn't been sacked already. Do wonder what is really going on behind closed doors.fenaddick said:I think the inherited comment was aimed at the board. I think he identified targets he didn't get in the summer and I'm not convinced a lot of the players we see as "his" picks were first choice. I think he wanted Docherty, Potts, Berry & Godden for sure. Dixon was clearly not a Jones signing and I'm on the fence about if Ahadme & Edwards were or not. Campbell I think was a back up option to who he actually wanted and Mannion definitely wasn't meant to be starting for us.
None of this is an excuse or a defence but I think that part of the interview wasn't meant for us, it was meant for Scott and the board0 -
I think he's pointed out some things he isn't happy with to the owners. I'm sure someone said he met with them recently and now Carter is more prominent and Jones is saying stuff like this. None of it seems like a coincidence. It might just be the words of a manager clinging on for dear life of courseIT_Andy said:
I agree with you. In saying that I expected more from Jones and hoped he would be tactically better than Appleton and improve young players, which hasn't happened. Shocked Jones hasn't been sacked already. Do wonder what is really going on behind closed doors.fenaddick said:I think the inherited comment was aimed at the board. I think he identified targets he didn't get in the summer and I'm not convinced a lot of the players we see as "his" picks were first choice. I think he wanted Docherty, Potts, Berry & Godden for sure. Dixon was clearly not a Jones signing and I'm on the fence about if Ahadme & Edwards were or not. Campbell I think was a back up option to who he actually wanted and Mannion definitely wasn't meant to be starting for us.
None of this is an excuse or a defence but I think that part of the interview wasn't meant for us, it was meant for Scott and the board0 -
I am still leaning toward the Jones In camp, but Saturday is the day in which I will judge him. Mansfield have lost 5 in a row now in the league. We need to get at them for the 1st minute, and we can’t give a side with so little confidence 60+ minutes to settle into the game. It’s embarrassing to say, but genuinely feel like I am deluded to think we could play well and dominate a side and win. Best case scenario we are on the correct side of a 50/50, down to either a mistake or a referee decision.ShootersHillGuru said:The script is already written. We’ll win or at least not lose v Mansfield and the wagon train will blunder on. We won’t be fluid or look dominant but we’ll do enough. The big question is does Jones have what it takes to turn his rag tag group of underperforming players into something worth watching or that can challenge. How do we know that Jones didn’t say up front that it would take time and wouldn’t be pretty at interview ? The owners might not be quite as pissed off as we are.0 -
SouthWest_Addicks said:
I am still leaning toward the Jones In camp, but Saturday is the day in which I will judge him. Mansfield have lost 5 in a row now in the league. We need to get at them for the 1st minute, and we can’t give a side with so little confidence 60+ minutes to settle into the game. It’s embarrassing to say, but genuinely feel like I am deluded to think we could play well and dominate a side and win. Best case scenario we are on the correct side of a 50/50, down to either a mistake or a referee decision.ShootersHillGuru said:The script is already written. We’ll win or at least not lose v Mansfield and the wagon train will blunder on. We won’t be fluid or look dominant but we’ll do enough. The big question is does Jones have what it takes to turn his rag tag group of underperforming players into something worth watching or that can challenge. How do we know that Jones didn’t say up front that it would take time and wouldn’t be pretty at interview ? The owners might not be quite as pissed off as we are.They are still above us, with a game in hand. They could also be saying - "we can't give a side with so little confidence 60+minutes to settle into the game.".
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And Bair has 1 in 12 so not sure he'd have been much better! Says a lot about our scouting.Garrymanilow said:
Ahadme was second choice behind Theo Bair. He ended up going to the French top division though so that doesn't feel like it was ever realistic. He can direct it at the board all he wants but they'll see the same thing. Nearly half the starting 11 his players and performances indistinguishable between when he does and doesn't have a fully fit squad. I think there's much smarter ways to get money released than what he's gone with there and if you go after the board you want to get a bit of fan support behind you with it, not further alienate an already annoyed fanbase. It's not his best work.fenaddick said:I think the inherited comment was aimed at the board. I think he identified targets he didn't get in the summer and I'm not convinced a lot of the players we see as "his" picks were first choice. I think he wanted Docherty, Potts, Berry & Godden for sure. Dixon was clearly not a Jones signing and I'm on the fence about if Ahadme & Edwards were or not. Campbell I think was a back up option to who he actually wanted and Mannion definitely wasn't meant to be starting for us.
None of this is an excuse or a defence but I think that part of the interview wasn't meant for us, it was meant for Scott and the board0 -
French top division is a bit of a higher standard than L1!North Lower Neil said:
And Bair has 1 in 12 so not sure he'd have been much better! Says a lot about our scouting.Garrymanilow said:
Ahadme was second choice behind Theo Bair. He ended up going to the French top division though so that doesn't feel like it was ever realistic. He can direct it at the board all he wants but they'll see the same thing. Nearly half the starting 11 his players and performances indistinguishable between when he does and doesn't have a fully fit squad. I think there's much smarter ways to get money released than what he's gone with there and if you go after the board you want to get a bit of fan support behind you with it, not further alienate an already annoyed fanbase. It's not his best work.fenaddick said:I think the inherited comment was aimed at the board. I think he identified targets he didn't get in the summer and I'm not convinced a lot of the players we see as "his" picks were first choice. I think he wanted Docherty, Potts, Berry & Godden for sure. Dixon was clearly not a Jones signing and I'm on the fence about if Ahadme & Edwards were or not. Campbell I think was a back up option to who he actually wanted and Mannion definitely wasn't meant to be starting for us.
None of this is an excuse or a defence but I think that part of the interview wasn't meant for us, it was meant for Scott and the board4 -
There's nothing to suggest the SMT are capable of replacing Jones with a better manager.10
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I imagine Mansfield coaching staff will probably think if we get the 1st goal we will probably win this. We’ve only scored 3 goals in the first half of any league match this season. That needs to change quickly.bobmunro said:SouthWest_Addicks said:
I am still leaning toward the Jones In camp, but Saturday is the day in which I will judge him. Mansfield have lost 5 in a row now in the league. We need to get at them for the 1st minute, and we can’t give a side with so little confidence 60+ minutes to settle into the game. It’s embarrassing to say, but genuinely feel like I am deluded to think we could play well and dominate a side and win. Best case scenario we are on the correct side of a 50/50, down to either a mistake or a referee decision.ShootersHillGuru said:The script is already written. We’ll win or at least not lose v Mansfield and the wagon train will blunder on. We won’t be fluid or look dominant but we’ll do enough. The big question is does Jones have what it takes to turn his rag tag group of underperforming players into something worth watching or that can challenge. How do we know that Jones didn’t say up front that it would take time and wouldn’t be pretty at interview ? The owners might not be quite as pissed off as we are.They are still above us, with a game in hand. They could also be saying - "we can't give a side with so little confidence 60+minutes to settle into the game.".Time has come to actually start seeing some improvement. I hate this keeping sacking managers, but genuinely don’t see where are next goal is coming from.0 -
It's all gone a bit odd. I've given him the benefit of the doubt, as thought his intensity would bring the best out of us. But I did begin to feel a disconnect when he first said this in September (unnecessarily):
"One day – I’ve made no secret and been totally open – I would like to manage Cardiff. It is my home town club – my dad lives close."
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Maybe we’re saving the new manager bounce for the desperate relegation battle.0
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In order to avoid a pay off, there's a distinct possibility the board have been watching Luton results and hoping they would soon come back in for NJ (more likely NJ would immediately, desperately apply for the Luton job). Shame they got a 90th minute winner yesterday.
I'm having nightmarish visions of Jones going back to Luton, winning the Championship and then the Premiership, before dominating the Champions League against a Real side totally bewildered by Jones' diagonal ball tactics into hattrick hero Ghassan Ahadme with man of the match Alan Cambell dominating the midfield. Post match presser Jones telling everyone, 'Listen, I'm the best coach in the world and I knew this would happen, Gas and Alan have been great players for me in the past, so I know I can count on them'.5 -
Badly run for years and this is the end result, can it be improved, I don't think so without major changes.2
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I’m just surprised that anyone is surprised given his last two fiasco appointments. Playing with the big boys and made a complete idiot of himself on national TV.2
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He is 100% going to go, it's just a matter of time. Better to sack him now and get someone in sooner so they can use the January transfer window.8
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True.fenaddick said:
French top division is a bit of a higher standard than L1!North Lower Neil said:
And Bair has 1 in 12 so not sure he'd have been much better! Says a lot about our scouting.Garrymanilow said:
Ahadme was second choice behind Theo Bair. He ended up going to the French top division though so that doesn't feel like it was ever realistic. He can direct it at the board all he wants but they'll see the same thing. Nearly half the starting 11 his players and performances indistinguishable between when he does and doesn't have a fully fit squad. I think there's much smarter ways to get money released than what he's gone with there and if you go after the board you want to get a bit of fan support behind you with it, not further alienate an already annoyed fanbase. It's not his best work.fenaddick said:I think the inherited comment was aimed at the board. I think he identified targets he didn't get in the summer and I'm not convinced a lot of the players we see as "his" picks were first choice. I think he wanted Docherty, Potts, Berry & Godden for sure. Dixon was clearly not a Jones signing and I'm on the fence about if Ahadme & Edwards were or not. Campbell I think was a back up option to who he actually wanted and Mannion definitely wasn't meant to be starting for us.
None of this is an excuse or a defence but I think that part of the interview wasn't meant for us, it was meant for Scott and the board
Although Delort did well in Ligue1 over there and badly for Wigan over here.... 😉0 -
The Man City comments directly reflect what happened when his time was up at Stoke and Southampton. He runs out of excuses, so falls back on things he has achieved in the past to show that the current situation can't possibly be his fault, because he's a great manager. Given the similarities with his previous failures, it does feel like we've reached the point of no return.22
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I really hope we're sounding out some potential alternatives.jacob_CAFC said:He is 100% going to go, it's just a matter of time. Better to sack him now and get someone in sooner so they can use the January transfer window.2 -
Well said, you're back in my good books.Radostanradical said:footballs not played on statistics though is it especially when you ignore a multi-varied analysis, a team could only concede 20 goals yet still lose 20 games over a season, its all well and good saying we have the best defence statistically (which I'm not sure about anyway) but if we arent scoring we can not win matches.
I suspect, like Adkins and his previous achievements, Jones at Luton was just a case of the right players and right manager at the right time, not some kind of revolutionary style of play Jones put in to them.
All the stuff about xg drives me mad.1 -
TBH, I'd far rather have manager that was open and honest about their feelings for another club, than one jumping up and down like a looney pretending to be passionate about Charlton.mendonca said:It's all gone a bit odd. I've given him the benefit of the doubt, as thought his intensity would bring the best out of us. But I did begin to feel a disconnect when he first said this in September (unnecessarily):
"One day – I’ve made no secret and been totally open – I would like to manage Cardiff. It is my home town club – my dad lives close."
As a football man, it would be strange if he didn't support a club, and other than his professional dealings there's no reason for that club to be Charlton.5
