There he goes again chatting about desire, structure and athleticism.
We were missing these things under Appleton, Jones came in and got enough out of last seasons squad so it never became a true relegation battle.
As others have pointed out he never mentions technical ability, creativity, flair, movement, attacking partnerships etc.
Both sides are important, whatever level you’re at. We need a manager who can find the balance between the two. This idea that we’ll out fight everyone has failed so badly we’re not much better off than last season.
There he goes again chatting about desire, structure and athleticism.
We were missing these things under Appleton, Jones came in and got enough out of last seasons squad so it never became a true relegation battle.
As others have pointed out he never mentions technical ability, creativity, flair, movement, attacking partnerships etc.
Both sides are important, whatever level you’re at. We need a manager who can find the balance between the two. This idea that we’ll out fight everyone has failed so badly we’re not much better off than last season.
I know we’ve had a managerial merry go round for years now and we’re sick of it. But, he has to go surely otherwise we’ll be in L2 and then what. I don’t necessarily like Methven, Scott and Co but I don’t think they’re the primary reason that we’re in the playing mess that we’re in right now. I lay that blame 100% on Jones. He promised a lot and has delivered little. Like I said if you live by the sword you die by the sword. I don’t like it but for the good of Charlton he needs to go. I also think we need someone with a Charlton connection in charge. That was one of the reasons I was initially positive about Jones. Because of his Charlton connection when he did a good job for us.
No hiding for Jones on Saturday, if we continue with the usual performance the whole crowd will turn and he should be gone by Sunday morning. In a sick twisted way I hope it does happen not just because I want him out but it’s always nice when the Charlton fans come together and sing with passion and togetherness, even if it is in hate obviously we won’t get to sing in a positive way any time soon but this can be second best until whoever or whatever it is that loves punishing us gets bored and allows us to become a half normal club again.
Problem is obviously bigger and runs deeper than Jones, but he needs to go. However, sacking a manager is costly and I’m not sure what funds Methven (who is probably over-promising on other’s people’s money) has. Methven is part of the problem as well, you don’t hear from him much and when he did pipe up recently it was about his ‘master stroke’ of cashing in on one game against Wrexham. I’ve not heard him talk about any other practical plans to push the club forward either on or off the pitch. That Wrexham thing was like an episode of the apprentice, no long term plan, no strategy, just a chancer selling a few half/half scarves. We really are at very very low ebb as a club right now …
I know we’ve had a managerial merry go round for years now and we’re sick of it. But, he has to go surely otherwise we’ll be in L2 and then what. I don’t necessarily like Methven, Scott and Co but I don’t think they’re the primary reason that we’re in the playing mess that we’re in right now. I lay that blame 100% on Jones. He promised a lot and has delivered little. Like I said if you live by the sword you die by the sword. I don’t like it but for the good of Charlton he needs to go. I also think we need someone with a Charlton connection in charge. That was one of the reasons I was initially positive about Jones. Because of his Charlton connection when he did a good job for us.
But, who do we get!? What a mess we’re in.
I cannot stand Jones but the recruitment is why we are where we are - we have a truly dreadful squad .
I think we all over analyse the importance of the "manager".
It's basically about assembling a group of good players in their respective positions, letting them play together, evolve together, and importantly, enjoy what they are doing, fighting for a common cause. Then to continue to motivate and encourage them.
It's the coaches who can, and should be working on things such as set pieces, tweaking formations etc. We, as a club, and in particular Jones, failed at the first hurdle, so nothing else follows. They are not evolving, improving, or enjoying themselves, and it appears, no longer even fighting for the common cause, probably because, like us the fans, they are feeling totally demoralised at their inability to threaten the opposition's goal, or score in the first half of a game.
He hasn't assembled a squad of good players in their respective positions and even where he has, Godden, Berry, they are well past their best, and lack the necessary pace.
No team can possibly achieve success without some pace, skill, and creativity. This team was doomed to failure from the outset.
We had a base on which to build, Dobbo & May, but even that was dispensed with.
There he goes again chatting about desire, structure and athleticism.
We were missing these things under Appleton, Jones came in and got enough out of last seasons squad so it never became a true relegation battle.
As others have pointed out he never mentions technical ability, creativity, flair, movement, attacking partnerships etc.
Both sides are important, whatever level you’re at. We need a manager who can find the balance between the two. This idea that we’ll out fight everyone has failed so badly we’re not much better off than last season.
"we are statistically the best side in the league defensively"
What is this based on? Because most people would class the best defences as the ones that concede the least amount of goals, and having just checked the table there are SIX teams who are statistically better than us, so Jones is chatting nonsense.
Here's some other stats for you Nathan that are actually correct:
15th for average possession per match. 16th for goals scored per match. 13th for shots on target per match. 15th for big chances created. 17th for accurate passes per match. 13th for touches in the opposition penalty box. 2nd (so this means 2nd worst) for fouls conceded per match.
Absolutely none of this points to Jones turning this around and if anything we're getting worse. I'm tired of his tactics, tired of the performances and tired of his excuses. Get rid now.
There he goes again chatting about desire, structure and athleticism.
We were missing these things under Appleton, Jones came in and got enough out of last seasons squad so it never became a true relegation battle.
As others have pointed out he never mentions technical ability, creativity, flair, movement, attacking partnerships etc.
Both sides are important, whatever level you’re at. We need a manager who can find the balance between the two. This idea that we’ll out fight everyone has failed so badly we’re not much better off than last season.
"we are statistically the best side in the league defensively"
What is this based on? Because most people would class the best defences as the ones that concede the least amount of goals, and having just checked the table there are SIX teams who are statistically better than us, so Jones is chatting nonsense.
Here's some other stats for you Nathan that are actually correct:
15th for average possession per match. 16th for goals scored per match. 13th for shots on target per match. 15th for big chances created. 17th for accurate passes per match. 13th for touches in the opposition penalty box. 2nd (so this means 2nd worst) for fouls conceded per match.
Absolutely none of this points to Jones turning this around and if anything we're getting worse. I'm tired of his tactics, tired of the performances and tired of his excuses. Get rid now.
Even if you look at the xG and see which teams are conceding the most chances, we are still only 2nd or 3rd best
I can't see us improving under any manager when the squad is this imbalanced. Just look at the middle of the pitch. We've got four defensive midfielders, one central mid, one attacking and one winger.
But the only defensive midfielder we actually has that could protect the back 4, left in the summer. Most of this lot are just passing midfielders who sit deep.
There he goes again chatting about desire, structure and athleticism.
We were missing these things under Appleton, Jones came in and got enough out of last seasons squad so it never became a true relegation battle.
As others have pointed out he never mentions technical ability, creativity, flair, movement, attacking partnerships etc.
Both sides are important, whatever level you’re at. We need a manager who can find the balance between the two. This idea that we’ll out fight everyone has failed so badly we’re not much better off than last season.
"we are statistically the best side in the league defensively"
What is this based on? Because most people would class the best defences as the ones that concede the least amount of goals, and having just checked the table there are SIX teams who are statistically better than us, so Jones is chatting nonsense.
Here's some other stats for you Nathan that are actually correct:
15th for average possession per match. 16th for goals scored per match. 13th for shots on target per match. 15th for big chances created. 17th for accurate passes per match. 13th for touches in the opposition penalty box. 2nd (so this means 2nd worst) for fouls conceded per match.
Absolutely none of this points to Jones turning this around and if anything we're getting worse. I'm tired of his tactics, tired of the performances and tired of his excuses. Get rid now.
Even if you look at the xG and see which teams are conceding the most chances, we are still only 2nd or 3rd best
Correct, we are 3rd behind Birmingham and Stevenage, so if anything that means we are also underperforming there as well, because we are 3rd best for xG conceded per game but joint 7th for goals conceded per game.
It's a shame it's gone this way He came in and made us hard to beat and stayed up. Getting rid of May was scandalous and then deciding T Campbell could be one of a front 2 strike force even worse. I don't know who made them decisions but the football and recruitment have all been awful. I don't think I've ever seen a Charlton side so devoid of flair and pace
There are teams above us on smaller budgets doing better, but we say that every year
I can't see us improving under any manager when the squad is this imbalanced. Just look at the middle of the pitch. We've got four defensive midfielders, one central mid, one attacking and one winger.
But the only defensive midfielder we actually has that could protect the back 4, left in the summer. Most of this lot are just passing midfielders who sit deep.
CM had already decided that Appleton was gone a couple of games before he was canned so I suspect something similar now. Would be shocked if they weren't sounding out potential replacements at this point.
I wonder who were gonna look to hire this time next year when the next fella has his inevitable losing of the dressing room & form around this time of year
CM had already decided that Appleton was gone a couple of games before he was canned so I suspect something similar now. Would be shocked if they weren't sounding out potential replacements at this point.
Would be a serious dereliction of duty if they're not. There's no way they think we can continue like this, or that Jones is going to suddenly change his entire style of play.
I'm fully expecting Saturday to be more of the same, another clueless performance, toxic atmosphere, Jones getting a ton of abuse, and that he'll be gone by early next week.
Surely, surely defeat at home to Mansfield on Saturday and he's done?
I too wanted this to work out and he did well initially but simply put it has to be either: the football is poor but we get results or the football is good but results are up and down as we adapt - and it's neither.
I also don't like how much of an ego Jones appears to have and I don't feel that there's such a connection with the fans - his post-match Birmingham comments still surprise me!
Since we're edging closer to relegation than promotion I think we might well need to change now, especially that if we bring someone new in they will at least have a transfer window to make their own dealings and we can't make the same mistakes that we did with Appleton. If we do happen to pull off a win this weekend I would give it absolute latest until Wycombe at home and then assess.
I'll be amazed if he stays if we lose on Saturday. Crawley last week had that real Northampton and Accrington Stanley feel to it when Appleton and Adkins were sacked. Any more hostility in the ground and I don't see a way back (if there is one now)
footballs not played on statistics though is it especially when you ignore a multi-varied analysis, a team could only concede 20 goals yet still lose 20 games over a season, its all well and good saying we have the best defence statistically (which I'm not sure about anyway) but if we arent scoring we can not win matches.
I suspect, like Adkins and his previous achievements, Jones at Luton was just a case of the right players and right manager at the right time, not some kind of revolutionary style of play Jones put in to them.
I'll be amazed if he stays if we lose on Saturday. Crawley last week had that real Northampton and Accrington Stanley feel to it when Appleton and Adkins were sacked. Any more hostility in the ground and I don't see a way back (if there is one now)
Will be interesting to see what happens if we lose to Mansfield on Saturday, its a new low point I'm actually fearful as a Charlton fan about what Mansfield (no disrespect) might do to us on Saturday.
I for once, actually hope I'm wrong, I hope this will all click for Jones and Charlton, that we go on a winning streak and push up the league. I just can't see it.
All that said back to your original point re him being sacked id be amazed as he is on a 4 year contract and very well paid by all accounts, thats a big pay off and the whole time we arent in a relegation fight i feel its a very get out by the SMT to fall back on terms like "long term project" and "building". I doubt he will walk either even though after Birmingham it seemed like he was threatening to.
Jones should have been sacked weeks ago. That he hasn't been suggests that the ownership have completely lost interest in the club. Worrying times.
I suspect he was probably close to being sacked but the week we won at Burton and Walsall probably saved him. Since then we haven't kicked on though, and he can't still be here next week if we fail to beat Mansfield.
I know we’ve had a managerial merry go round for years now and we’re sick of it. But, he has to go surely otherwise we’ll be in L2 and then what. I don’t necessarily like Methven, Scott and Co but I don’t think they’re the primary reason that we’re in the playing mess that we’re in right now. I lay that blame 100% on Jones. He promised a lot and has delivered little. Like I said if you live by the sword you die by the sword. I don’t like it but for the good of Charlton he needs to go. I also think we need someone with a Charlton connection in charge. That was one of the reasons I was initially positive about Jones. Because of his Charlton connection when he did a good job for us.
But, who do we get!? What a mess we’re in.
I cannot stand Jones but the recruitment is why we are where we are - we have a truly dreadful squad .
Hard to see where any improvement will come there too - feel like Jones got his players (ex-Luton etc) this summer, and it hasn't worked, and before that Scott went for Gillesphey, REG etc who aren't up to much, and wanted.to shove Dobson out of the door while we were in danger of relegation.
Jones should have been sacked weeks ago. That he hasn't been suggests that the ownership have completely lost interest in the club. Worrying times.
I suspect he was probably close to being sacked but the week we won at Burton and Walsall probably saved him. Since then we haven't kicked on though, and he can't still be here next week if we fail to beat Mansfield.
The financials may be an issue but ultimately I do agree as it will be toxic if we lose on Saturday, also wont be good for the club if we have nothing to play come Feb, March. I'm sure we all remember how bare the stadium has been over last few seasons towards end of the season.
That said, re your point about Jones being close to the sack but staved off with wins at Burton and Walsall (and more a point to all managers in that situation), I always find it odd when managers are given that time because as what's happened what happens if you win your do or die games but then lose a few after ? another round of do or die games ? In reality i think when you start needing to discuss a managers fate its probably time to just bite the bullet and call it. Like at Utd when they had to have a 7 hour meeting about ETH then to back him, when you have meetings to discuss you've probably lost faith.
Needs to go now, I don't understand the logic of waiting for a Mansfield result. Win, lose or draw, he's lost the fans and the team by the looks of it.
Mansfield are on a terrible run, a small blip win shouldn't change that. Sack him now, and give the new manager a chance with a transfer window. There's a 0% chance we get promoted, yet there's now a genuine chance of relegation. A new manager could still change that with the points left to earn.
I've never been more wrong about a manager in my life. I was 100% confident he was going to change us, but he's absolutely woeful, just tailor made for Luton for whatever reason. When/if he goes back, he should never leave again.
Comments
We were missing these things under Appleton, Jones came in and got enough out of last seasons squad so it never became a true relegation battle.
As others have pointed out he never mentions technical ability, creativity, flair, movement, attacking partnerships etc.
Both sides are important, whatever level you’re at. We need a manager who can find the balance between the two. This idea that we’ll out fight everyone has failed so badly we’re not much better off than last season.
It's basically about assembling a group of good players in their respective positions, letting them play together, evolve together, and importantly, enjoy what they are doing, fighting for a common cause. Then to continue to motivate and encourage them.
It's the coaches who can, and should be working on things such as set pieces, tweaking formations etc.
We, as a club, and in particular Jones, failed at the first hurdle, so nothing else follows.
They are not evolving, improving, or enjoying themselves, and it appears, no longer even fighting for the common cause, probably because, like us the fans, they are feeling totally demoralised at their inability to threaten the opposition's goal, or score in the first half of a game.
He hasn't assembled a squad of good players in their respective positions and even where he has, Godden, Berry, they are well past their best, and lack the necessary pace.
No team can possibly achieve success without some pace, skill, and creativity. This team was doomed to failure from the outset.
We had a base on which to build, Dobbo & May, but even that was dispensed with.
What is this based on? Because most people would class the best defences as the ones that concede the least amount of goals, and having just checked the table there are SIX teams who are statistically better than us, so Jones is chatting nonsense.
Here's some other stats for you Nathan that are actually correct:
15th for average possession per match.
16th for goals scored per match.
13th for shots on target per match.
15th for big chances created.
17th for accurate passes per match.
13th for touches in the opposition penalty box.
2nd (so this means 2nd worst) for fouls conceded per match.
Absolutely none of this points to Jones turning this around and if anything we're getting worse. I'm tired of his tactics, tired of the performances and tired of his excuses. Get rid now.
He came in and made us hard to beat and stayed up. Getting rid of May was scandalous and then deciding T Campbell could be one of a front 2 strike force even worse. I don't know who made them decisions but the football and recruitment have all been awful. I don't think I've ever seen a Charlton side so devoid of flair and pace
There are teams above us on smaller budgets doing better, but we say that every year
I'm fully expecting Saturday to be more of the same, another clueless performance, toxic atmosphere, Jones getting a ton of abuse, and that he'll be gone by early next week.
I too wanted this to work out and he did well initially but simply put it has to be either: the football is poor but we get results or the football is good but results are up and down as we adapt - and it's neither.
I also don't like how much of an ego Jones appears to have and I don't feel that there's such a connection with the fans - his post-match Birmingham comments still surprise me!
Since we're edging closer to relegation than promotion I think we might well need to change now, especially that if we bring someone new in they will at least have a transfer window to make their own dealings and we can't make the same mistakes that we did with Appleton. If we do happen to pull off a win this weekend I would give it absolute latest until Wycombe at home and then assess.
I suspect, like Adkins and his previous achievements, Jones at Luton was just a case of the right players and right manager at the right time, not some kind of revolutionary style of play Jones put in to them.
I for once, actually hope I'm wrong, I hope this will all click for Jones and Charlton, that we go on a winning streak and push up the league. I just can't see it.
All that said back to your original point re him being sacked id be amazed as he is on a 4 year contract and very well paid by all accounts, thats a big pay off and the whole time we arent in a relegation fight i feel its a very get out by the SMT to fall back on terms like "long term project" and "building". I doubt he will walk either even though after Birmingham it seemed like he was threatening to.
That said, re your point about Jones being close to the sack but staved off with wins at Burton and Walsall (and more a point to all managers in that situation), I always find it odd when managers are given that time because as what's happened what happens if you win your do or die games but then lose a few after ? another round of do or die games ? In reality i think when you start needing to discuss a managers fate its probably time to just bite the bullet and call it. Like at Utd when they had to have a 7 hour meeting about ETH then to back him, when you have meetings to discuss you've probably lost faith.
Mansfield are on a terrible run, a small blip win shouldn't change that. Sack him now, and give the new manager a chance with a transfer window. There's a 0% chance we get promoted, yet there's now a genuine chance of relegation. A new manager could still change that with the points left to earn.
I've never been more wrong about a manager in my life. I was 100% confident he was going to change us, but he's absolutely woeful, just tailor made for Luton for whatever reason. When/if he goes back, he should never leave again.