I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

ProperCharlton

DennisBooth said:

Some of the blind optimism and support of Jones is breathtaking. We have not won in NINE games.I posted on another forum that we will not win in ten games. One game to go. I can’t see where the next win is coming from. I am not convinced that changing the manager will work but the players look devoid of self confidence. Defence was our bedrock but that is now as bad as the midfield and attack. Jones doesn’t know what his best team is. 

JONES OUT.

It's not blind optimism and support though is it? My support of him is based on our progress under him since he joined, the fact he's turned bad form around previously and the belief that he has been let down by our owners across multiple transfer windows since getting promoted to the Championship.

He isn't perfect and results and performances need to improve but I don't believe sacking him is the answer. I'd rather our owners backed him and let him improve the squad with a few decent signings in January.

DubaiCAFC

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

Grant 25k a week million signing on. NC 19k a week Skipp we are paying 50% salary he on 60k a week 

You are just making up numbers here. I very highly doubt you know the players wages (none of us do). But if you were going to make it up at least make it more realistic than us deciding to pay Chalobah 19k a week, not even we are that stupid. 

Grant was on 25k a week at west brom in the championship, on a contract he signed when he was at his peak. He's definitely not on that much anymore

Heard these numbers from someone reliable. So choose to believe or not. Grant was WBA highest paid player by some distance. He was closing on nearly 40k a week with them. WBA paying silly money for years hence nearly went out of business.

If they think Chalobah is on 19k a week I'm not sure you can call them reliable anymore. It's a load of bollocks as is most of the stuff you see from people's sources about player wages. Some had Kaminski on 20k last season from their "sources" but it was reported when we signed him that he was on 12.5k

So what you think he is on?

He was trialling to earn a deal at Sheffield Wednesday before he came to us, they are only allowed to offer players something like 7.5k a week under the restrictions the EFL put on them. 

No other championship club wanted him. So he’s probably on a bottom end championship/top end league 1 wage given that’s where he’s ended up being in demand. 7-10k a week based on all of that. To me that seems a lot more likely than your “source’s” 19k a week 

He was signed before the restrictions and what I have read he was on 20k a week. 

I have just checked again, so he is 15k a week and then 4k appearance bonus 

I wasn’t talking about then. This summer he was on trial at Sheffield Wednesday before he came to us. 

I know we are incompetent but there’s no chance we’d offer a player 15k a week when no other championship teams wants him and he’d barely been fit for 2 seasons. If you believe that you’ll believe anything 

Well it is. And that was Jones choice. Again Jones money spent badly.

I think you have been used previously to push the owners agenda so I'm not going to believe you I'm afraid. You seem to be the only person here who is defending their investment this summer which I think says it all

I am not, Jones knew the budget, and it wasn’t the worse. But he wasted it. The model been the same since the start!! 

fenaddick

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

NabySarr said:

DubaiCAFC said:

Grant 25k a week million signing on. NC 19k a week Skipp we are paying 50% salary he on 60k a week 

You are just making up numbers here. I very highly doubt you know the players wages (none of us do). But if you were going to make it up at least make it more realistic than us deciding to pay Chalobah 19k a week, not even we are that stupid. 

Grant was on 25k a week at west brom in the championship, on a contract he signed when he was at his peak. He's definitely not on that much anymore

Heard these numbers from someone reliable. So choose to believe or not. Grant was WBA highest paid player by some distance. He was closing on nearly 40k a week with them. WBA paying silly money for years hence nearly went out of business.

If they think Chalobah is on 19k a week I'm not sure you can call them reliable anymore. It's a load of bollocks as is most of the stuff you see from people's sources about player wages. Some had Kaminski on 20k last season from their "sources" but it was reported when we signed him that he was on 12.5k

So what you think he is on?

He was trialling to earn a deal at Sheffield Wednesday before he came to us, they are only allowed to offer players something like 7.5k a week under the restrictions the EFL put on them. 

No other championship club wanted him. So he’s probably on a bottom end championship/top end league 1 wage given that’s where he’s ended up being in demand. 7-10k a week based on all of that. To me that seems a lot more likely than your “source’s” 19k a week 

He was signed before the restrictions and what I have read he was on 20k a week. 

I have just checked again, so he is 15k a week and then 4k appearance bonus 

I wasn’t talking about then. This summer he was on trial at Sheffield Wednesday before he came to us. 

I know we are incompetent but there’s no chance we’d offer a player 15k a week when no other championship teams wants him and he’d barely been fit for 2 seasons. If you believe that you’ll believe anything 

Well it is. And that was Jones choice. Again Jones money spent badly.

I think you have been used previously to push the owners agenda so I'm not going to believe you I'm afraid. You seem to be the only person here who is defending their investment this summer which I think says it all

I am not, Jones knew the budget, and it wasn’t the worse. But he wasted it. The model been the same since the start!! 

So where did the JRS money go? Or didn’t never exist? Because that seemingly got taken away 

Gravesend_Addick

stjohnshill said:

Seems like conversations have or are happening around Jones future as I’ve been given the name Lee Bowyer as a someone who’s in the frame to take over. 

He was lined up after the Cawley game too. Let’s hope today is a turning point just like that was for NJ again….

Personally I’d hold off until the international break if a change was going to be made 

I initially skimmed past this comment & then realised who posted it

Jdredsox

Emotions still too raw after whatever that was earlier today to properly go into things.

Honestly feels like our players are regressing under Jones right now. More than tactics, transfers or midfielders that is my biggest concern.

king addick

NabySarr said:

king addick said:

Not sure Bowyer is the answer.

People might shit on it but Steve Cooper is a shout. Good tactician and can work on a budget. Even better he is outstanding with getting youth up to speed and playing to potential quick. 

He’d be a great shout but there’s also no chance he’d want the job 

Yeah I get it's an outside chance but do feel we are the right profile for him.

NabySarr

king addick said:

NabySarr said:

king addick said:

Not sure Bowyer is the answer.

People might shit on it but Steve Cooper is a shout. Good tactician and can work on a budget. Even better he is outstanding with getting youth up to speed and playing to potential quick. 

He’d be a great shout but there’s also no chance he’d want the job 

Yeah I get it's an outside chance but do feel we are the right profile for him.

The profile he's looking for will be a team with a squad and budget that can push for promotion. He's a good enough manager to get that so no chance he'd slum it with us and risk a relegation on the CV

Garrymanilow

If we sack Jones and replace him with Lee bloody Bowyer I will absolutely give up. Bowyer did well in 18/19 and had a tough time of it with Roland but he got relegated from the Championship, made a mess of getting us back up from L1 and lost his entire mind in the process, somehow managed to move to Birmingham which saved Sandgaard from reluctantly Ol' Yella-ing him which was absolutely on the horizon, stabilised them in their last few games and then the next season won 4 games after November and got sacked. Since then he's managed Montserrat and nothing. If that's who the SMT are talking about then pray we don't sack Jones because clearly the alternatives are not going to be anything even approaching Championship budget

Addicksi

Jdredsox said:

Emotions still too raw after whatever that was earlier today to properly go into things.

Honestly feels like our players are regressing under Jones right now. More than tactics, transfers or midfielders that is my biggest concern

I'd agree, most players seem to have regressed and are terrified of making a mistake. Which naturally leads to mistakes being made through lack of confidence. We seem to also have a  large naughty step where those not in favour inhabit. I don't think it's helped publicly calling players out and I do wonder if some of them would benefit from a clean slate and a new boss.
That said we haven't spent the money required to survive and if it's known some owners want out that's not going to help. 

oohaahmortimer

se9addick said:

oohaahmortimer said:

se9addick said:

CAFC_boi said:

It’s like when anyone suggested Lee Bowyer should be sacked - he had the same cult like following. 

The football has always been terrible, even in the promotion season but you don’t mind when you’re getting results. 

Now we have terrible football and terrible results so what’s even the point. 

Jones has been dealt a bad hand but his recruitment is partly to blame for that. 

I also think the squad is much better than it’s given credit for, we’ve just lost all identity, leadership and any form of style of play, so no one has a clue what they’re supposed to be doing and that comes down to the manager. 

I honestly think it’s the opposite compared to Bowyer. People blindly believed in him because he was “one of our own”. Look at the age of this thread - for 2 of Jones’ 2.5 years people have been calling for his head. Yet in that timeframe  he’s been our most successful manager since Curbs. It’s madness, but such is modern football.

I’ll re raise you SCP

You can, but based on where we were to where they took us to, I don’t think you’ll win that hand. 

Poor end to the season as he worked out what was needed then 

101 points smashing the league up 
then the rug pulled cash wise and still managed a miracle 9th place finish in the championship and about 3 points outside the play offs 
then the Roland bollox and outed with 4 games in hand and some of the shit foisted on him .
I’m all in 

oohaahmortimer

I’d rather keep Jones than Bowyer every day of the week   

cabbles

Like Manilow, I thought Bowyer had a tough time of it under Roland and then having to endure the farce that was Nimer and Southall, and I think by the end of it, he was pretty drained by the whole saga.  He let his emotions get on top of him towards the end of his time here and was ott with his behaviour towards some of the players.  Coincidentally, like Jones, he also had a preferred way of playing and team set up that he couldn’t adapt or change when his plan A became less effective (to be fair that’s the same for 95% of managers)

If he’s changed and developed in the interim then you might argue for the bounce given his previous, but as others have said, I’m not sure in the time he’s been away, he’s really progressed on the management front.  He may get us a win or two in his opening games, but I think mid to long term it would go wrong 

If we did sack Jones, my worry is some inexperienced Ben Garner or Dean Holden type, young(ish), but the size of the task and quite frankly, our club and our history would make it beyond them.  We’re then into the Rowetts, Des Buckingham etc 

I agree with the likes of NabySarr, let’s at least give Jones until the intl break.  I’m not saying next week is a free hit, I’d love to see us go up there and fluke our way to a draw, but the two home games are what he should be judged on.  I think that’s a fair approach based on what he’s achieved and the budget he’s working on from this summer, versus saying, ‘you’ve had your shot’.  If we don’t win any of the next 3, that’s no win in 12, and I think even he would say that given the results business football is these days, not getting a win in 12 warrants dismissal 

charlton_hero

Love Bow for the League One promotion campaign and giving it a good go against all the odds in the Championship, but him coming back would prove we have no money and no clue. 

Carter

We are in a spot of bother here 

I don't believe sacking the manager will achieve anything positive. I was losing my shit with the players today for taking their feet off the gas. Something I noticed recently, not just today. Our players have started hiding. Not all of them. 

Nathan Jones is right, we have to go back to not fucking up simple things. We aren't ever going to be 1970 Brazil and I'll take us winning attritional games of football by being attritional and low margin. Can't do that when you have a defence like Bonnie Blues front bottom

Sword65pf

NabySarr said:

king addick said:

NabySarr said:

king addick said:

Not sure Bowyer is the answer.

People might shit on it but Steve Cooper is a shout. Good tactician and can work on a budget. Even better he is outstanding with getting youth up to speed and playing to potential quick. 

He’d be a great shout but there’s also no chance he’d want the job 

Yeah I get it's an outside chance but do feel we are the right profile for him.

The profile he's looking for will be a team with a squad and budget that can push for promotion. He's a good enough manager to get that so no chance he'd slum it with us and risk a relegation on the CV

Only saying this as you are talking about cooper but he is a manager out of work, eventually a time comes when they will take what they can get knowing if they do well it makes them relevant again. 

Sword65pf

Bowyer is a no from me, got bitter the last time, that’s not to say who I would want.

king addick

Carter said:

We are in a spot of bother here 

I don't believe sacking the manager will achieve anything positive. I was losing my shit with the players today for taking their feet off the gas. Something I noticed recently, not just today. Our players have started hiding. Not all of them. 

Nathan Jones is right, we have to go back to not fucking up simple things. We aren't ever going to be 1970 Brazil and I'll take us winning attritional games of football by being attritional and low margin. Can't do that when you have a defence like Bonnie Blues front bottom

Like a punched lasagne?

NabySarr

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

king addick said:

NabySarr said:

king addick said:

Not sure Bowyer is the answer.

People might shit on it but Steve Cooper is a shout. Good tactician and can work on a budget. Even better he is outstanding with getting youth up to speed and playing to potential quick. 

He’d be a great shout but there’s also no chance he’d want the job 

Yeah I get it's an outside chance but do feel we are the right profile for him.

The profile he's looking for will be a team with a squad and budget that can push for promotion. He's a good enough manager to get that so no chance he'd slum it with us and risk a relegation on the CV

Only saying this as you are talking about cooper but he is a manager out of work, eventually a time comes when they will take what they can get knowing if they do well it makes them relevant again. 

The rate that managers get sacked these days it’s not like we are going to be the only job going over the next few months. Whenever you hear a manager that’s out of work speak they always say it’s about waiting for the right opportunity, and for a manager of Cooper’s level and reputation we are not that. Lower down the pyramid maybe less so as managers need to make a living, but Cooper has had a couple of good payouts so won’t be a concern for him. I think there is absolutely no chance he’d come and manage us 

mendonca

Bowyer won't be betterer for me.

boggzy

Please dear god not Bowyer. Have an inkling from rumours and the fact he's apparently been around lately that it might be if/when Jones is dumped. The long contracts don't mean a thing, there are always clauses (see also Les Reed who was given a ridiculous 4 or 5 year contract).

Why are we always so keen to regurgitate the past?

Fanny Fanackapan

blackpool72 said:

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

CAFCsayer said:

Problem is, I can't think of anyone realistic and half decent apart from Bow or Challinor

Irrelevant though - it’s not your decision or responsibility to find someone. Any half-decent football club should have a list of potential future managers. 

It’s not irrelevant though is it. If we get rid of Jones it needs to be to bring a better manager in. If we can’t bring one in on our budget then we might as well stick with Jones rather than bring in a worse manager 

All well and good saying this Naby, but unless you are stevie wonder you would have seen the complete lack of urgency from the majority of our players in the 2nd half to get back into the game. What exactly would you take from that? Is that something NJ can turn around?. Up until today I’ve been in his camp but too many alarming actions took place today to make me think change is needed as we can’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Every post match interview is becoming the same.

Well yes. We’ve been here before multiple times before and fans have been saying the same things. He’s lost the dressing room, tactics are awful etc. 

It might get so toxic that we have to make the change. But I honestly don’t see things improving much until January whoever the manager is. The squad has 2 gaping holes in that until sorted will mean we aren’t very good 

You think the owners will stump up? I don’t think there is a chance in hell. 

I agree 
If we go down due to their not spending enough in the summer I hope they lose a fucking fortune 

Post of the day.

Nothing is black & white in this situation but I'd stake my £1m engagement ring that the owners are 99% responsible for why we currently find ourselves in this heartbreaking position.

The " who's the guilty party" poll on here is, I believe, starting to reflect the view that Nathan's budget was effectvely pulled at the start of the summer based on whatever was going on (or not) at Board level. And that is the where problem started....and the gaffer's expected hopes & plans for the upcoming season plummeted. That's the scenario as I see it. 

As in most walks of life these days, money talks, or not, as the case may be....especially when you have lots of it (so I'm told !) 

Nathan & those who love this famous old club are merely pawns at the end of the day to the money men, regardless of their words of endearment. Mere mortals are secondary & loyalty debatable, with the departure of an irreplaceable staff member soon after promotion being a prime example....albeit indirectly by the Board itself. That, alone, gave me a strong indication as to the direction of travel we could expect by our club's latest custodians and their main spokesman.

So, the stage was set early on for a season of survival against all the odds, with minimal outlay & support for a manager who had shown he was a bit special & who had proved his worth within financial restraints in the past. And who really knows how much say the gaffer had in the signings made despite what we're told ? 

Of course there will be other factors to consider in the recent downturn in results & no-one involved will be totally blameless but our very limited budget has clearly made our ability to compete at this level extremely challenging to say the least. 

But, IMO, if anyone can manage to keep us in the Championship against all the odds, he's here already. In fact, he evens sleeps at the Training Ground when needs be. He has a squad of players- maybe more quantity than quality overall - that, with more returning from injury means he has even more difficult decisions to make as to what is his best starting eleven. And of course, he isn't the Messiah....but he is passionate & will never give less than his best as he sees it. For me, he's our best bet for survival & we have to keep him company on this ridiculously, barely possible journey. 

If we don't support him & his players when others haven't, then we have no excuses should the unthinkable happen.

Keep the faith & aim your anger in the appropriate direction. 

paulsturgess

oohaahmortimer said:

se9addick said:

oohaahmortimer said:

se9addick said:

CAFC_boi said:

It’s like when anyone suggested Lee Bowyer should be sacked - he had the same cult like following. 

The football has always been terrible, even in the promotion season but you don’t mind when you’re getting results. 

Now we have terrible football and terrible results so what’s even the point. 

Jones has been dealt a bad hand but his recruitment is partly to blame for that. 

I also think the squad is much better than it’s given credit for, we’ve just lost all identity, leadership and any form of style of play, so no one has a clue what they’re supposed to be doing and that comes down to the manager. 

I honestly think it’s the opposite compared to Bowyer. People blindly believed in him because he was “one of our own”. Look at the age of this thread - for 2 of Jones’ 2.5 years people have been calling for his head. Yet in that timeframe  he’s been our most successful manager since Curbs. It’s madness, but such is modern football.

I’ll re raise you SCP

You can, but based on where we were to where they took us to, I don’t think you’ll win that hand. 

Poor end to the season as he worked out what was needed then 

101 points smashing the league up 
then the rug pulled cash wise and still managed a miracle 9th place finish in the championship and about 3 points outside the play offs 
then the Roland bollox and outed with 4 games in hand and some of the shit foisted on him .
I’m all in 

Cup QF also. 

Signed Kermogant for free.

TonyWebstersShed

Arne Slot's still available...

Seriously though, I have never liked Jones' style of football or the way he carries on. How he got us promoted after some of the worst football I've ever watched in the first half of that season is beyond me.

But we are exactly where I would have expected us to be before the season started. At the moment, I don't see a better realistic option and we know he can somehow pull surprise results out of somewhere. So on balance, I'd give him longer.

cafcnick1992

You're all idiots. Jones will get us going again and there's nobody better out there

supaclive

Scott Parker is a name mentioned in higher positions at the club.  

Stig

supaclive said:

Scott Parker is a name mentioned in higher positions at the club.  

Spotlight-bulb Maintenance and Replacement Engineer?

aliwibble

ValleyGary said:

Can’t get any worse can it?

Come on Gary, you've been watching us for long enough to know that it absolutely can.

cafcnick1992 said:

You're all idiots. Jones will get us going again and there's nobody better out there

We're not all idiots, given that there's absolutely no consensus on this thread at all, except possibly "Results aren't good, the football's worse, and things are likely to get toxic in short order". Personally I feel very like I did in the run up to Crawley a couple of years ago - I'm not on the barricades with my torch and pitchfork (as I always expected this to be a tough season), and I really don't know who we'd get in to replace him, but the vibes aren't good. Hopefully we can sort ourselves out, but regardless of whether he stays or goes I think we're going to need to dig in for a long haul.

Garrymanilow

I am increasingly amused by the idea that anyone at all is suggesting we sack Jones, an angry, defensive-minded coach who loves a 352 away from home with a tendency to alienate fans and players alike because we don't like any of that stuff and replace him with Lee Bowyer, who is basically Nathan Jones with a more expensive jumper. It's the equivalent of people complaining they keep getting punched in the dick and trying to resolve it by buying a dick punching machine. 

Though having said that if you offered me Lee Bowyer, a manager who proved 4 years ago that he can't manage successfully in the Championship and has done nothing to disprove that since, or Scott Parker, my genuine number one never forget, unforgivable, there is no staircase he is safe from me on bastard then welcome back Lee, god we missed you.