I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

ForeverAddickted

AberystwythAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

AberystwythAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

AberystwythAddick said:

NabySarr said:

Cafc451 said:

Ryan mason .

So a manager with very little experience, failed at this level last season, and would try and play a brand of football that this squad clearly isn’t capable of. Basically a one way ticket to league 1 

Same as with Jones then. May as well gamble on a different approach 

I mean you got it spot on last season when you kept saying week in / week out that we were getting relegated

When are we playing Bromley again this season?

What relevance does that have to now?  Those last 12 games of the season were relegation form. 

I’m happy that someone is happy to keep watching this shit week in week out. 

If you can’t see the we are sliding down the table with every game played then I don’t know what to tell you.

Because you wouldn't shut the f**k up about how we were getting relegated, and then fully... We didn’t get relegated perhaps?

Ah we're back to this same discussion... Where have I said that I'm happy watching this week in / week out?

Just because I don't agree with the typical reaction of: "Results bad... Must be the Manager... SACK HIM" - For me its the lazy answer in modern Football - Instead I see no evidence that changing the Manager would instantly wave a magic wand and improve things - Just as evidence from the last few years has shown that sacking the Manager can equally result in things turning even worse than what they are... I pointed that out prior to the comments saying: "I'll drive Bowyer to Birmingham myself", yet still resulted in three further years (?) in League One, with some god awful Managers

There is one input at this moment in time that can be changed to alter results and that’s the manager. 

9 games without a win and 5 points from a possible 27.

there is no evidence that this run will end, it’s not just bad luck look at the stats we are in the bottom percentile of essentially all the key ones. 

The players for better or worse will not change overnight that just leaves a change in management and seeing if it improves. 

What is currently happening cannot continue 

And if the outcome of changing the Manager is worse than the position we're in?

Like I say, everyone sits here and goes: "Lets change the Manager, see what happens" thinking that only good things can happen

But there is clear evidence from the last 10-years that changing the Manager can be a bloody terrible decision and leave us a lot worse off. Is likely to be a terrible decision this time around, because as Marcus / Damo have both pointed out, the problem is greater than the Manager, the owners don't want to put money into the team, so whoever comes in has to accept that the players (that you've mentioned for better / worse wont change overnight) have to stay.

If the owners had put money on the table with clear investment in the team over the summer and we were seeing this form, then I'd probably agree... Oxford spent £3m (?) on de Keersmaecker last summer, and it wasn't enough, so why do we think that £1.5m on a backup player who can't get minutes is going to make life easier for Jones or the new man? - For me, fan anger is in the wrong direction, why has Jones had to sign Chalobah or even look to Solly March to bolster the ability in the squad, its not for shits and giggles, and I imagine its not because he's thought: "Oh well, am sure we can cure these players of the injury records"

ElfsborgAddick

Bedsaddick said:

YardAddickt said:

I think at this point I am still not sure whether I'm Jones in or out but there is no clear replacement and pulling the trigger spontaneously won't end well. If we enter the relegation zone I doubt we leave it. Jones will get the blame and he certainly has been at fault but too many of the players don't give a fuck and the board don't recruit well enough. 

We are in shambles it's not just down to Jones but something needs to change I don't know what but if nothing does we are fucked.

If you can’t make your mind up about jones after watching the last few matches you’ll never make your mind up . He’s lost the dressing room. 

I would imagine that he is marmite.

NabySarr

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

CAFCsayer said:

Problem is, I can't think of anyone realistic and half decent apart from Bow or Challinor

Irrelevant though - it’s not your decision or responsibility to find someone. Any half-decent football club should have a list of potential future managers. 

It’s not irrelevant though is it. If we get rid of Jones it needs to be to bring a better manager in. If we can’t bring one in on our budget then we might as well stick with Jones rather than bring in a worse manager 

All well and good saying this Naby, but unless you are stevie wonder you would have seen the complete lack of urgency from the majority of our players in the 2nd half to get back into the game. What exactly would you take from that? Is that something NJ can turn around?. Up until today I’ve been in his camp but too many alarming actions took place today to make me think change is needed as we can’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Every post match interview is becoming the same.

Well yes. We’ve been here before multiple times before and fans have been saying the same things. He’s lost the dressing room, tactics are awful etc. 

It might get so toxic that we have to make the change. But I honestly don’t see things improving much until January whoever the manager is. The squad has 2 gaping holes in that until sorted will mean we aren’t very good 

ForeverAddickted

RE: "Jones has lost the dressing room" - Has he... Has someone taken the signs down again?

We annoyingly went 2-1 down early, and Jones quickly made the changes which made us look "better" and were unfortunate not to score thanks to Campbell's deflection going the wrong side of the post, and then a disallowed goal which could have gone either way as the Lino guessed... What end the team spirit today was the third goal, as their heads slumped even more... confidence is low and it just killed them off today - Had we made it 2-2 there is every chance the game could have gone either way again as we could have been in the ascendancy and Norwich's own confidence would have taken a hit... We'll never know sadly.

ElfsborgAddick

MarcusH26 said:

fenaddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

Problem is, I can't think of anyone realistic and half decent apart from Bow or Challinor

They'll go cheap and try to win the fans over with an ex pro like Pearce or bring back Jacko. That will happen after Powell turns them down for the second (maybe third?) time. While Gavin Carter is in charge any decisions will be the attempt to placate fans rather than actually improve us

Probably be Rowett tbh and I don't think that's any way an improvement. 

Doubt it, word was that he left the spanners as he wanted out of London and move back up North.

Sword65pf

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

CAFCsayer said:

Problem is, I can't think of anyone realistic and half decent apart from Bow or Challinor

Irrelevant though - it’s not your decision or responsibility to find someone. Any half-decent football club should have a list of potential future managers. 

It’s not irrelevant though is it. If we get rid of Jones it needs to be to bring a better manager in. If we can’t bring one in on our budget then we might as well stick with Jones rather than bring in a worse manager 

All well and good saying this Naby, but unless you are stevie wonder you would have seen the complete lack of urgency from the majority of our players in the 2nd half to get back into the game. What exactly would you take from that? Is that something NJ can turn around?. Up until today I’ve been in his camp but too many alarming actions took place today to make me think change is needed as we can’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Every post match interview is becoming the same.

Well yes. We’ve been here before multiple times before and fans have been saying the same things. He’s lost the dressing room, tactics are awful etc. 

It might get so toxic that we have to make the change. But I honestly don’t see things improving much until January whoever the manager is. The squad has 2 gaping holes in that until sorted will mean we aren’t very good 

You think the owners will stump up? I don’t think there is a chance in hell. 

NabySarr

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

CAFCsayer said:

Problem is, I can't think of anyone realistic and half decent apart from Bow or Challinor

Irrelevant though - it’s not your decision or responsibility to find someone. Any half-decent football club should have a list of potential future managers. 

It’s not irrelevant though is it. If we get rid of Jones it needs to be to bring a better manager in. If we can’t bring one in on our budget then we might as well stick with Jones rather than bring in a worse manager 

All well and good saying this Naby, but unless you are stevie wonder you would have seen the complete lack of urgency from the majority of our players in the 2nd half to get back into the game. What exactly would you take from that? Is that something NJ can turn around?. Up until today I’ve been in his camp but too many alarming actions took place today to make me think change is needed as we can’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Every post match interview is becoming the same.

Well yes. We’ve been here before multiple times before and fans have been saying the same things. He’s lost the dressing room, tactics are awful etc. 

It might get so toxic that we have to make the change. But I honestly don’t see things improving much until January whoever the manager is. The squad has 2 gaping holes in that until sorted will mean we aren’t very good 

You think the owners will stump up? I don’t think there is a chance in hell. 

No I doubt they will. They will leave it until as long as possible before making a change if they do, and then probably replace on the cheap 

ElfsborgAddick

oohaahmortimer said:

Could anyone do worse than what has been served up and will continue to be .
no
roll the dice 

If they did it would not surprise me if they again tried to do things on the cheap.  BUT what is to say that fresh ideas could not change things around? 

cabbles

Out of respect for everything he’s achieved, he deserves the next three games in the run up to the intl break for me.  I’ve already written off next week but the key games are the Bolton and Sheff Utd home games, and I dare say he probably needs to win both by then if we get beat next week given where we could be in the table by then.

He’s a good manager, and he did a great job to get us up and keep us up last season.  Today, I felt that he at least tried to go on the front foot and set up differently, and after we went one up, the blame was much more on the players for their equaliser and the fact we couldn’t keep the ball.  I could see how frustrated he was on the touchline at the misplaced passes, there’s very little he can do about that.  

I also agree with what @ozaddick put on the post match thread.  He’s been proper hamstrung by the owners’ decision to pull back and look for funding (that’s all bs btw, they want out and they want £80m for the club based on what I’ve been told 😂).  

The speech he gave after the Hull game last season implied we were ready to build and take another step forward, but I think the rug has been pulled from underneath him, and unfortunately, he’s reaching the limit of his ability to do anything about it.  

I’m not absolving him of criticism, and I think there may be an element of potentially losing the dressing room in recent weeks, but for me, given what he’s achieved for us and out of respect for the effort and energy he puts in, I want him to have the next three.  

You can make a case that there is no plan B, and he’s signed a lot of the misfits and given his tenure, this is very much the squad of his choosing, but I do believe the uncertainty and lack of investment over the summer has contributed to why we now find ourselves in the position we’re in, it’s not simply down to him.  

I hope he turns it around because I worry that this team isn’t up to standard were a new manager to take charge, and at least with Jones you know he’s got pedigree.  With the owners wanting out, do we really think there’s a plan or a shortlist of qualified candidates to step up.   I doubt they’ve even got the slightest clue who to replace him with 

Weegie Addick

At least he didn’t win Manager of the Month for August because then we’d be really cursed. 

Oh. 

LTKapal

ForeverAddickted said:

AberystwythAddick said:

ForeverAddickted said:

AberystwythAddick said:

NabySarr said:

Cafc451 said:

Ryan mason .

So a manager with very little experience, failed at this level last season, and would try and play a brand of football that this squad clearly isn’t capable of. Basically a one way ticket to league 1 

Same as with Jones then. May as well gamble on a different approach 

I mean you got it spot on last season when you kept saying week in / week out that we were getting relegated

When are we playing Bromley again this season?

What relevance does that have to now?  Those last 12 games of the season were relegation form. 

I’m happy that someone is happy to keep watching this shit week in week out. 

If you can’t see the we are sliding down the table with every game played then I don’t know what to tell you.

Because you wouldn't shut the f**k up about how we were getting relegated, and then fully... We didn’t get relegated perhaps?

But of course we're back to this same old discussion... Where have I said that I'm happy watching this week in / week out?

Just because I don't agree with the typical reaction of: "Results bad... Must be the Manager... SACK HIM" - For me its the lazy answer in modern Football - Instead I see no evidence that changing the Manager would instantly wave a magic wand and improve things - Just as evidence from the last few years has shown that sacking the Manager can equally result in things turning even worse than what they are... I pointed that out prior to the comments saying: "I'll drive Bowyer to Birmingham myself", yet still resulted in three further years (?) in League One, with some god awful Managers

Just to follow this, we are in the same situation as Preston their squad has had underinvestment and is filled with absolute dross has sacking heckinbottom and replace with Alexander changed anything? No.
I was at the Preston millwall game when he first took over ( I was in the area and hoping for a new manager bounce to watch Millwall lose ) and as a neutral it was so clear their squad lacked quality. I see the same in Charlton and quite frankly if Jones who by playing horrible attritional football can sometimes get results can’t get results out of this squad I’m very concerned that anybody within our reach can. 

ForeverAddickted

I think the other aspect that needs to be looked at, is take last season, how many Managerial changes at this level resulted in a positive outcome?

Blackburn / West Brom are the obvious ones, as they were in trouble until O'Neill / Morrison came in

But on the flip side Oxford / Leicester potentially doomed themselves even more, or were already doomed by replacing the fella that started their campaign - Was that because of the Manager, or because they were already pretty much a mess - Sheff Utd replaced Selles early, and they only finished 8-pts better off than us, whilst Southampton / Norwich were the clear cases where the Manager was the problem because their squads were better than their position.

So as a result what bracket would you put us in then?

The Blackburn / West Brom, with a squad good enough to survive and a Manager under achieving?

Or the Oxford / Leicester category where it doesn't really matter who is in charge?

MarcusH26

@cabbles £80m is a ludicrous figure to want for the club when you'd then have to go and deal with Roland too. They won't shift it for a long time if that's their figure. I thought the £50m Matt Slater mentioned was on the high end... 

fenaddick

ElfsborgAddick said:

MarcusH26 said:

fenaddick said:

CAFCsayer said:

Problem is, I can't think of anyone realistic and half decent apart from Bow or Challinor

They'll go cheap and try to win the fans over with an ex pro like Pearce or bring back Jacko. That will happen after Powell turns them down for the second (maybe third?) time. While Gavin Carter is in charge any decisions will be the attempt to placate fans rather than actually improve us

Probably be Rowett tbh and I don't think that's any way an improvement. 

Doubt it, word was that he left the spanners as he wanted out of London and move back up North.

He then went on to manage Oxford, famously in the north

cabbles

MarcusH26 said:

@cabbles £80m is a ludicrous figure to want for the club when you'd then have to go and deal with Roland too. They won't shift it for a long time if that's their figure. I thought the £50m Matt Slater mentioned was on the high end... 

just what I heard mate, and I agree with you re: the ludicrous nature of the figure(s) being bandied about 

the important distinction is that it’s clear they want out.  We got the PR ‘seeking investment’ after the initial story broke, and I think our start to the season deflected from it.  Based on the team, the signings and the fact the squad isn’t good enough, I’d say we’re in a very bad position.  To Jones’ credit, I think he had to deal with the owners breaking the news to him over the summer that they’re likely reigning in spending and looking to get out, and this has impacted who he’s been able to bring in.  As mentioned, he absolutely has to take responsibility, but overall, I think he’s had to operate one hand tied behind his back this summer, which is why it’s unraveled this season 

LTKapal

Get on the blower to Barclay and bring on January

Sword65pf

cabbles said:

MarcusH26 said:

@cabbles £80m is a ludicrous figure to want for the club when you'd then have to go and deal with Roland too. They won't shift it for a long time if that's their figure. I thought the £50m Matt Slater mentioned was on the high end... 

just what I heard mate, and I agree with you re: the ludicrous nature of the figure(s) being bandied about 

the important distinction is that it’s clear they want out.  We got the PR ‘seeking investment’ after the initial story broke, and I think our start to the season deflected from it.  Based on the team, the signings and the fact the squad isn’t good enough, I’d say we’re in a very bad position.  To Jones’ credit, I think he had to deal with the owners breaking the news to him over the summer that they’re likely reigning in spending and looking to get out, and this has impacted who he’s been able to bring in.  As mentioned, he absolutely has to take responsibility, but overall, I think he’s had to operate one hand tied behind his back this summer, which is why it’s unraveled this season 

This is how I’ve seen things since the season started, they probably couldn’t believe there luck winning the 1st three games to paper over the cracks of them giving up on us. It’s as clear as day now though. I have sympathy for NJ because he has continued like nothing has gone on, but now he is getting the heat.id actually have more respect for the owners if they just came out and said they want to sell and will only be covering costs until it happens, might even galvanise the players for the big fight we have on our hands going forward. Another bunch of owners given up on our club.

paulsturgess

ElfsborgAddick said:

oohaahmortimer said:

Could anyone do worse than what has been served up and will continue to be .
no
roll the dice 

If they did it would not surprise me if they again tried to do things on the cheap.  BUT what is to say that fresh ideas could not change things around? 

We have just played a succession of the divisions most out of form / beatable teams and made a complete pigs ear of the lot of it, today being the pinnacle - 1-0 up early against a punching bag and then not just beaten, but comprehensively beaten. At home.

the players / squad are not high end BUT; they looked unworkable when Jones took over before and he worked them. They looked unworkable when Jackson took over from Adkins and he worked them. 

Hard to defend the last 2 games in particular for me. But Jones has been here before and scrambled, somehow, out of it. I have never liked him though, truth be told. We are in trouble either way, I don't know what to do for the best but would probably get rid of him. Equally, be delighted if he proves us all wrong again. 

Going on holiday next weekend in the hope of some sun to make what happens this time next week feel slightly less painful!

se9addick

I still wouldn’t sack Jones for a couple of reasons. 

1. It feels, for whatever reason, that from the start people have wanted him gone and couldn’t wait to jump on that bandwagon once it got going. Each time they’ve been proven wrong and hopefully it will happen again (but I’m less confident it will this time…)

2. bringing in a new manager 2 months ahead of the transfer window means whomever came in would have to use the players available to us now. Those players are effectively not good enough regardless or the system of formation employed. Essentially I’d rather we spend the next couple of months with the manager who knows this squad best and had some say in their recruitment trying to figure out a system that gets us out of this situation. The alternative is  someone that just comes in because they need a job, takes any job, and then can’t believe what a bad hand he’s been dealt.

Basically we should stick with Jones for at least the next month or two because there isn’t a better option and if there was they couldn’t do any better with this squad anyway. Not the most hopeful of messages. 

MarcusH26

cabbles said:

MarcusH26 said:

@cabbles £80m is a ludicrous figure to want for the club when you'd then have to go and deal with Roland too. They won't shift it for a long time if that's their figure. I thought the £50m Matt Slater mentioned was on the high end... 

just what I heard mate, and I agree with you re: the ludicrous nature of the figure(s) being bandied about 

the important distinction is that it’s clear they want out.  We got the PR ‘seeking investment’ after the initial story broke, and I think our start to the season deflected from it.  Based on the team, the signings and the fact the squad isn’t good enough, I’d say we’re in a very bad position.  To Jones’ credit, I think he had to deal with the owners breaking the news to him over the summer that they’re likely reigning in spending and looking to get out, and this has impacted who he’s been able to bring in.  As mentioned, he absolutely has to take responsibility, but overall, I think he’s had to operate one hand tied behind his back this summer, which is why it’s unraveled this season 

Thank you for passing it on! I was just a bit taken aback by that figure 😅

I think it's been clear from the summer business that they want out and I absolutely agree that NJ is being asked to work miracles again on an even more limited budget. I'm sure him and PC sat down at the start of the summer with a very different window in mind as to what's panned out (bar maybe KG and Okonkwo) 

LittleAddick

He's continually been digging the players out ever since the Stoke loss - I do think that has taken its toll on squad morale, you'd imagine it surely would. 

bolloxbolder

LittleAddick said:

He's continually been digging the players out ever since the Stoke loss - I do think that has taken its toll on squad morale, you'd imagine it surely would. 

Exactly this. Leaburn last week and Edwards today. 

Cloudworm

I'm supporting Nathan Jones. 

shirty5

They won’t sack him as they have no one in charge or would want to stand up and take the responsibility to do that deed

BigDiddy

ForeverAddickted said:

RE: "Jones has lost the dressing room" - Has he... Has someone taken the signs down again?

We annoyingly went 2-1 down early, and Jones quickly made the changes which made us look "better" and were unfortunate not to score thanks to Campbell's deflection going the wrong side of the post, and then a disallowed goal which could have gone either way as the Lino guessed... What end the team spirit today was the third goal, as their heads slumped even more... confidence is low and it just killed them off today - Had we made it 2-2 there is every chance the game could have gone either way again as we could have been in the ascendancy and Norwich's own confidence would have taken a hit... We'll never know sadly.

Don’t agree. We were outplayed for vast parts of that game. I have to question why Grant was played out of position and even with the changes, Norwich passed and moved a lot better than us. 

I agree we had some chances and that the ref made some bad decisions too, but overall we were well beaten by a much better team.

Our problems go much deeper than this one defeat. We have been playing poorly, in my opinion, for the best part of a year, with some notable wins splattered amongst the dross.

We all know that our midfield is a problem and many of us say that recruitment has been poor for a few windows now - we also know we cannot compete with most clubs in this league.  That’s not down to NJ alone.

Our squad is below average, unbalanced and too many in the 25 are just not good enough.

So, we either accept that our fate [likely relegation] or the Board replaces NJ with a better manager and then pump some real money in.

Sadly, I think they will hope we can “nick” another year in this league and then try sell the club.

fenaddick

BigDiddy said:

ForeverAddickted said:

RE: "Jones has lost the dressing room" - Has he... Has someone taken the signs down again?

We annoyingly went 2-1 down early, and Jones quickly made the changes which made us look "better" and were unfortunate not to score thanks to Campbell's deflection going the wrong side of the post, and then a disallowed goal which could have gone either way as the Lino guessed... What end the team spirit today was the third goal, as their heads slumped even more... confidence is low and it just killed them off today - Had we made it 2-2 there is every chance the game could have gone either way again as we could have been in the ascendancy and Norwich's own confidence would have taken a hit... We'll never know sadly.

Don’t agree. We were outplayed for vast parts of that game. I have to question why Grant was played out of position and even with the changes, Norwich passed and moved a lot better than us. 

I agree we had some chances and that the ref made some bad decisions too, but overall we were well beaten by a much better team.

Our problems go much deeper than this one defeat. We have been playing poorly, in my opinion, for the best part of a year, with some notable wins splattered amongst the dross.

We all know that our midfield is a problem and many of us say that recruitment has been poor for a few windows now - we also know we cannot compete with most clubs in this league.  That’s not down to NJ alone.

Our squad is below average, unbalanced and too many in the 25 are just not good enough.

So, we either accept that our fate [likely relegation] or the Board replaces NJ with a better manager and then pump some real money in.

Sadly, I think they will hope we can “nick” another year in this league and then try sell the club.

There is a third option. Equip Jones with a squad capable of playing Championship football. Why do they have to wait until NJ is gone to pump real money in?

blackpool72

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

Sword65pf said:

NabySarr said:

The Red Robin said:

CAFCsayer said:

Problem is, I can't think of anyone realistic and half decent apart from Bow or Challinor

Irrelevant though - it’s not your decision or responsibility to find someone. Any half-decent football club should have a list of potential future managers. 

It’s not irrelevant though is it. If we get rid of Jones it needs to be to bring a better manager in. If we can’t bring one in on our budget then we might as well stick with Jones rather than bring in a worse manager 

All well and good saying this Naby, but unless you are stevie wonder you would have seen the complete lack of urgency from the majority of our players in the 2nd half to get back into the game. What exactly would you take from that? Is that something NJ can turn around?. Up until today I’ve been in his camp but too many alarming actions took place today to make me think change is needed as we can’t keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Every post match interview is becoming the same.

Well yes. We’ve been here before multiple times before and fans have been saying the same things. He’s lost the dressing room, tactics are awful etc. 

It might get so toxic that we have to make the change. But I honestly don’t see things improving much until January whoever the manager is. The squad has 2 gaping holes in that until sorted will mean we aren’t very good 

You think the owners will stump up? I don’t think there is a chance in hell. 

I agree 
If we go down due to their not spending enough in the summer I hope they lose a fucking fortune 

Croydon

We're Charlton fans, not Nathan Jones fans. Some of you would do well to remember that.

Croydon

I'm still not even convinced he needs to go, but the cult like support he has from a few on here is amusing. 

Bubble

Jones under pressure and rightly so but Phil Chapple is getting away with murder here.

3 CM’s signed. One predictably not fit, one AWOL and one not deemed good enough to get on the bench. 

11 players signed in the summer and 3 deemed good enough to start today.

I suspect Jones will go. Interestingly used the term “they” when referencing the club which was telling, but my word has he papered over some cracks in the last 18 months and others are just culpable for this current mess.