Online fan meeting with club directors - next one Thurs Jan 23rd 7pm (p8)

msomerton said:

oohaahmortimer said:

msomerton said:

The first question to ask. Is why do they ant to own an English football club

That will drop them £10m a year for the foreseeable 

For me is why does any one , particularly a foreign person want too own a football club. When they do not make money. Why Reading, why Millwall, why Sheffield Wednesday, why Wycombe and  so on it must be approaching 50% of EFL clubs owned by overseas money.

Same reason people bet on horses.

Moto said:

I wish Donald Trump would buy the club, love him or hate him at least it wouldn't be boring!!!!!

Think we’ve already had a mini-Trump. It didn’t go well.

eastterrace6168 said:

Lots of shoulder shrugging and "it is was it is" stuff going on...total waste of time...

Reams on the other site: Lots of shoulder shrugging and "it is was it is" stuff going on...total waste of time...

Callumcafc said:

supaclive said:

Callumcafc said:

supaclive said:

Callumcafc said:

supaclive said:

JR said Nathan is happy with his squad

Nathan didn't confirm 

JR said we're trimming the squad.

Nathan said the club's aim is to develop players.

If we don't buy two or three immediate starters we won't get promoted, Small will leave, Leaburn will be sold and there's no guarantee we'll get out of the division next year.

THE SMT are NOT fit for purpose.

Waffle and conjecture.  They give me no confidence.  Fair play to CM to say until we get out of this division he doesn't want to talk about success.

He's right.

Sadly I dint think he'll be here IF we ever do get out of this division again... upwards!

What did you expect him to do in that moment? Interrupt to agree? Nothing he said elsewhere in the interview contradicted what Rodwell said.

If the right player is available at the right price, they will bring them in. But they won’t do deals for the wrong players at bad prices just to placate the fans.

His silence said it all

The comment if the right player at the right price is not really an actual defined idea.... nobody knows if they're the right price

I simply don't believe this collective "management" are good enough to get us promoted.

4th highest wage bill.  Arguably the richest ownership in the division yet constantly being outperformed by smaller, better run, better managed clubs.

You look for the positives  i look at the realities.   If this management don't buy two or three players this transfer window it is only going to get harder to get promoted under their leadership.

All I hear are excuses.  Charlie said it isn't that difficult to turn fortunes around.   He continues to disprove that theory.

We can agree to disagree.   We have for years.  I still remain unbeaten in our differences over each transfer window.  I can't wait to lose one.

You look at the realities but also make up completely arbitrary targets that have tenuous links on whether we are successful or not, especially judging by yours and others opinions on how good our ability to pick good players actually is in the first place?

We continue to be bad at picking good players
4th highest wage bill in the division
Results nowhere near that 

THAT IS THE REALITY!

Getting promotion is an arbitrary target?!  What on earth are you on about?!

THAT IS THE TARGET AND CHARLIE SAYS THAT WILL ONLY THEN BE SEEN AS A SUCCESS WE CAN TALK ABOUT

(God I read this post back before I posted it... this is all proper pointless. You're right, let's agree to disagree and you can continue focusing on the realities and @ ing me when we go 1-0 down away at Bolton.)


Erm... the arbitrary target is what I highlighted: "if this management don't buy two or three players this transfer window" - the arbitrary target being a number of signings based on what makes you feel good. In your reality world, what does it have to do with our chances of promotion especially if, as you say, we cannot pick good players anyway?

Feels like you just set targets you know/think they will fail so you can continue to have an indefinite moan about everything.

The reality as I see it is that everyone in the ownership & SMT is trying to make a success of this - everyone involved wants to see Charlton promoted. But another reality is that we don't have unlimited budgets to make it happen and so nothing is guaranteed. I see signs of things being turned around and others don't, or they want it to all happen more quickly than it is.

I hear you, I really do.    There are signs of improvement, but in my opinion (and a fair proportion of others), only because we finished 16th last season.    I think they've been here for long enough now.

You mention about not having an unlimited budget - I agree.   I just point out (again) we have the 4th highest wage bill - so we have a budget bigger than all but 3 teams in this division and we are nowhere near performing to that budget.

Improvement should happen when you are spending more than 17 other teams in the division, or you are abjectly failing.    Right now, I think this current SMT are failing the owners and the fanbase.    I don't believe they are equipped to get us out of this division - in skill set or hunger to make it work.

All fairly reasoned arguments, no?   If we don't spend any money this transfer window but let 4 or 5 go - we are not giving ourselves the best chance of promotion - in my opinion  - and if you asked the average joe in the street, he'd probably agree with that simple suggestion too.

Nathan Jones has improved the defence and we're harder to beat than last year under Appleton - but I didn't pick Appleton as manager - the SMT did.   Like all other other decisions they've been involved in - they oversaw our transfer window 2 years ago - Andy Scott was hired to help TS.    So, whichever way you look at it, they've had their sticky pawprints on the fabric of CAFC for 2 years now and I can't see where we have improved - on the pitch, financially, the state of the pitch etc - the playing side I don't think, is any better.

Behind the scenes, it does sound very much like they have - but they are being paid to improve off the pitch AND on the pitch.   To date, that simply hasn't happened.   On the 23rd January 2023 we were 12th.   We finished that season 12th.   

I would want/hope/expect/pray that 2 years on, a whole new SMT, money being spent behind the scenes and on the pitch and the 4th largest wage bill this season (was it the 6th last year?) a damn sight better results than being 10th.    Sorry for expecting more from Charlton Athletic -  a team steeped in history, whose average mean league position is mid table Championship (CM's words by the way).

So, in essence, we aren't very pleasing on the eye, our best three performing players currently (L Jones, Small, Leaburn) 2 are out of contract at the end of the season and one is being eyed up for a sale to mitigate the continued £9m a year loss, that CM said they could reduce by £7m+

None of the above I think is inflammatory but a mere observation.   We all want the very best for Charlton, but I think sometimes we need to step back and look at the actual reality of the situation.   

NabySarr said:

Braziliance said:

Sorry, but a waste of time, people shouldn't even bother tuning in. 

Ultimately the two most important things (promotion and ground ownership) are solved by money, and it appears we have owners that aren't willing to break the bank to get it done. 

We won't improve our fan base, as there's too many London clubs better than us, we are currently the 3rd worst professional London football club out of 13 (I am not including the non league riff raff). Until that changes, we won't attract new fans unless they are generational fans. 

I'd actually be happy for them to say at this point "we don't have the money to bring you back to the Premier league, we are aiming to keep you afloat until we can make you a more ambitious project to purchase for someone else and make some potential profit on you". Deadly serious as well. I don't believe for a second these owners care further than viewing us as a 3-5 year flip project.

You cannot and I can't emphasise this enough, cannot sustain in this league for a club of our size in London. We are being swallowed every year by more ambitious clubs around us. Brentford as an example are a much bigger club than us now. Forget history, no one cares that we had a good few years in the prem. They dwarf us in following and riches now, that would have been inconceivable only over a decade or so ago. How bad can it get in another decade? 

I think people genuinely underestimate how broken we are at times based on youtube chats etc.

All these questions about signs, turnstiles and food options do my nut in. I want to watch Charlton be a team that plays at the top level or at least the second level. Not mixing it up with bloody Shrewsbury, Northampton etc every year. (Sorry any Salops and Cobblers who may be floating about.) 

It's imperative we get out of this league and become a good football side again, and it feels like cold water is being thrown on that to me. It's all about being 'sensible' and you just can't be in the modern game, you'll be left behind.

There are plenty of examples of teams that are sensible and well-ran climbing the leagues, Brentford just from your post are one of them. There are also lots of examples of teams not being sensible and putting themselves in difficulty. I’d rather try and be a sensible well run club (not saying we are succeeding at this at all), you are much more likely to sustain success by doing this  

We can’t just demand ownerships to chuck huge money at this, it just isn’t going to happen. Even with the current levels of spending which you deem not near enough, we are losing £9m a year. This ownership, nor any other potential ownership, isnt going to want to lose significantly more than that into a club that doesn’t even own its assets. You need to be more realistic, we’ve been an absolute shitshow on and off the pitch for a decade, that isn’t going to be turned around overnight, and the state the club and assets are in mean that you aren’t going to get a magic billionaire come in and throw money at it till it succeeds 

You will not be able to give me one example of a team that has achieved promotions without spending a fuck ton of money, or, been lucky with academy products. Brentford chucked millions at their team. They of course sold a lot of players for big fees to keep this going, but they were always spending millions on players, that's how it started. Big fees to keep up with the modern game. Brighton who are viewed as a sensible club were the same, spent fortunes to get to the Premier league, so did Bournemouth. None of these became the club's they are now by being sensible. 

It's the complete opposite to what you are saying, we won't sustain like this. This, and rolling the dice and it rolling low will lead to the same outcomes. They both have their own risks. 

Losing 9 million a year, exactly! So our owners/represtatives as an example, have literally said, they aren't willing to pay the 40-50 million or whatever it is that Roland is asking for, as its too much. So how long are they willing to be a league1 club for before that's too much money pissed away? 

It can literally be turned around in one season with money. If money couldn't turn things around, Birmingham wouldn't be top, Wycombe wouldn't be second and Cambridge wouldn't be bottom. That's all football is, money, that's the harsh reality. 

I'm not demanding anything, nor will me doing so make a difference, I am posting what the situation is on a Charlton message board. 

If we don't spend a fuck load of money to revive this club, we will die a slow painful death, unless we get extremely lucky, and even then, it would only get us so far. To survive in this climate, you need owners who are willing to spend the cash, all the rest is just noise. 

There is no such thing as a 5 year plan in this league, by the time you're two years in, all your players and potentially manager will be hoovered up. Good players don't want to spend 5 years in this shit league, they might be more inclined in the championship where they're potentially one season away from the promised land. 

Seems like a complete waste of time then. All i've taken from last nights meeting is that Rodwell has a very good hairline for a guy in his mid-50s.

CharltonKerry said:

Henry Irving said:

golfaddick said:

Henry Irving said:

Some good ie the top line finances although we seemed to have skipped a year.

Net transfer spend of £800k to £1m

CM sometimes lets slip more than he intends.

IE bringing catering in house, change in shirt sponsors. Shame those issues weren't probed more but you can't blame in-house interviewers for not going full Jeremy Paxman

Think he confirmed what I said a few weeks back eg the big money guys are happy to put in what they said they would (£10m pa) but they aren't going to splash the cash over and above that.

CM was right say we can't talk about success until we get promoted.  Were not on track for that but at least he acknowledged that.

Carter isn't a natural on TV and I keep thinking he's @AFKABartram but he is on top of his brief and appears to be constantly talking to managers.

On to the negative.  The questioning was largely vague and soft, and especially from the  reps.  The fans questions from whattsapp were better and more to the point.

And Ali Maxwell: why?  Must  be a dozen CAFC fans who could do that.

Technically it was poor, sound was uneven and someone tell CM to look into the camers

I actually think all the fan engagement stuff is good but it's not very sexy for most fans and I have my own issues right now about how much it is real when push comes to shove.

Pleased for Jon and Lewis. I still thing the advisory board set up is totally wrong but that's for another debate.

I'm a big critic of CAST so this will be dismissed by some as having an axe to grind but tonight Heather didn't present CAST as an organisation likely to ask tough or probing questions or that would hold the board to account.

Overall, it was good that it happened but I think the club over managed it due to a lack of confidence/fear of difficult questions when in reality they would have been better to just take whatever came. Nothing should really come as a surprise to them and none of the four are that inarticulate or unable to think on their feet.

So, in a nutshell......

The owners are happy to keep ploughing in £10m a year just to stay in this division, with every few seasons a player sale might be enough to buy a couple more mediocre players that will help us finish 10th. Because they have no ambition to ever spend any money that might get us out of this poxy league.

RIght-o. 

Not what I said.

I believe CM sold them the idea that he could reduce costs and increase income (see his ££ slide) and this, plus boosting the squad with academy talent which is our big USP, would produce the additional budget to produce a promotion winning team.

Not happened IMHO because of our poor recruitment (even Rodwell said how poorly we'd used the loan market) and the churn of managers.

I didn’t listen to it, but my reading of the comments made by the SMT is very simple, the plan is. That the owners agreed to give Charlton £10 million a year  (losses where around £9 million per year when they took over) to fund the losses which they appear to be doing and are willing to do, therefore at present they are keeping to there part of the plan. This meant we had a million to invest in players and infrastructure/ infrastructure.

The problem is that the SMT stated they could reduce the losses to a more sustainable £3 million or less per year which meant there would be around £7 million per year for investment in players and infrastructure, this they have failed to do successfully as from the figures shown by the SMT would appear that the reduction was being generous £1/2 million or less, so the losses reduced from around £9 million to £8.5 millions. Which means now we have £1.5 millions to invest in infrastructure/ players. 

So as I see it the owners are doing their bit, but the SMT have totally failed, I know this is very simplistic but, the owners must be looking at the figures and surly thinking, the SMT are failing and need replacing. They will not be thinking about spending more money than they agreed to (for ground purchase, but if pushed them may consider extending lease), infrastructure and new players, let’s be honest would you? 

So my expectations is that there will be a new SMT in place by this time next year, they will be charged  to reduce costs hopefully to a more realistic figure (my guess £5 million or less) therefore Charlton would have around £5 million a year for infrastructure and players. The big worry is how do you reduce the losses to £5 million? 

Probably a load of rubbish, but that’s my take from what I read on here.

No, I think you are spot on and explained it better than I did.

Btw @charltonkerry left field question but do you know a Fiona Woolley?

CharltonKerry said:

@henryirving I don’t, mind you with my memory I might have forgotten😀.

Only I was speaking to her on the phone and she said my accent was the same another Charlton fan she knew called Kerry.

Your post reminded me.

Moto said:

I wish Donald Trump would buy the club, love him or hate him at least it wouldn't be boring!!!!!

Him and Farage would be the dream team for me. I expect Farage will be PM soon so it'll be unlikely 

CharltonKerry said:

Henry Irving said:

golfaddick said:

Henry Irving said:

Some good ie the top line finances although we seemed to have skipped a year.

Net transfer spend of £800k to £1m

CM sometimes lets slip more than he intends.

IE bringing catering in house, change in shirt sponsors. Shame those issues weren't probed more but you can't blame in-house interviewers for not going full Jeremy Paxman

Think he confirmed what I said a few weeks back eg the big money guys are happy to put in what they said they would (£10m pa) but they aren't going to splash the cash over and above that.

CM was right say we can't talk about success until we get promoted.  Were not on track for that but at least he acknowledged that.

Carter isn't a natural on TV and I keep thinking he's @AFKABartram but he is on top of his brief and appears to be constantly talking to managers.

On to the negative.  The questioning was largely vague and soft, and especially from the  reps.  The fans questions from whattsapp were better and more to the point.

And Ali Maxwell: why?  Must  be a dozen CAFC fans who could do that.

Technically it was poor, sound was uneven and someone tell CM to look into the camers

I actually think all the fan engagement stuff is good but it's not very sexy for most fans and I have my own issues right now about how much it is real when push comes to shove.

Pleased for Jon and Lewis. I still thing the advisory board set up is totally wrong but that's for another debate.

I'm a big critic of CAST so this will be dismissed by some as having an axe to grind but tonight Heather didn't present CAST as an organisation likely to ask tough or probing questions or that would hold the board to account.

Overall, it was good that it happened but I think the club over managed it due to a lack of confidence/fear of difficult questions when in reality they would have been better to just take whatever came. Nothing should really come as a surprise to them and none of the four are that inarticulate or unable to think on their feet.

So, in a nutshell......

The owners are happy to keep ploughing in £10m a year just to stay in this division, with every few seasons a player sale might be enough to buy a couple more mediocre players that will help us finish 10th. Because they have no ambition to ever spend any money that might get us out of this poxy league.

RIght-o. 

Not what I said.

I believe CM sold them the idea that he could reduce costs and increase income (see his ££ slide) and this, plus boosting the squad with academy talent which is our big USP, would produce the additional budget to produce a promotion winning team.

Not happened IMHO because of our poor recruitment (even Rodwell said how poorly we'd used the loan market) and the churn of managers.

I didn’t listen to it, but my reading of the comments made by the SMT is very simple, the plan is. That the owners agreed to give Charlton £10 million a year  (losses where around £9 million per year when they took over) to fund the losses which they appear to be doing and are willing to do, therefore at present they are keeping to there part of the plan. This meant we had a million to invest in players and infrastructure/ infrastructure.

The problem is that the SMT stated they could reduce the losses to a more sustainable £3 million or less per year which meant there would be around £7 million per year for investment in players and infrastructure, this they have failed to do successfully as from the figures shown by the SMT would appear that the reduction was being generous £1/2 million or less, so the losses reduced from around £9 million to £8.5 millions. Which means now we have £1.5 millions to invest in infrastructure/ players. 

So as I see it the owners are doing their bit, but the SMT have totally failed, I know this is very simplistic but, the owners must be looking at the figures and surly thinking, the SMT are failing and need replacing. They will not be thinking about spending more money than they agreed to (for ground purchase, but if pushed them may consider extending lease), infrastructure and new players, let’s be honest would you? 

So my expectations is that there will be a new SMT in place by this time next year, they will be charged  to reduce costs hopefully to a more realistic figure (my guess £5 million or less) therefore Charlton would have around £5 million a year for infrastructure and players. The big worry is how do you reduce the losses to £5 million? 

Probably a load of rubbish, but that’s my take from what I read on here.

 Agree and have said much the like when they turned up. Methven offering unrealistic outcomes but they kind of fell for it.
My question would be, could any SMT reduce the losses to the levels you mention? I reckon it would be a pretty tall order for the best of them let alone this bunch of chancers.
So the next question has to be, will the investors even stick around to find out.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I still think in the not too distant future, Methven will be left holding the baby.