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POST-MATCH THREAD: Charlton Athletic v Sheffield Wednesday: Saturday 18th October 2025: KO 15:00
Comments
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My viewpoint is that I don't wet the bed when TC makes ONE successful pass In a 60 min appearance. If he makes half a dozen that leads to chances (missed or converted) then I'll give him some praise. If he has a shot on target that the keeper has to save then I'll be ecstatic.bobmunro said:Michaelmon said:golfaddick said:But passing the ball to your team mate is an essential part of the game. You shouldn't get extra "marks" for doing your job.Right…But scoring goals is an essential part of the game. You shouldn't get extra "marks" for doing your job.But making tackles is an essential part of the game. You shouldn't get extra "marks" for doing your job.But a goalkeeper making saves is an essential part of the game. You shouldn't get extra "marks" for doing your job.But making blocks is an essential part of the game. You shouldn't get extra "marks" for doing your job.Can I just check what we can give extra marks for? I assume it’s nothing on the pitch as that is clearly just the players doing their job?There are many ways to appraise performance - on the football pitch, at work, playing a guitar - whatever. Think of it as higher or lower marks. If Kaminski keeps a clean sheet but the opposition have zero shots on target then he doesn't have to do his job - but you may mark him as competent performance as there is little else he could have done. If he let's in five goals - all of which you or I could have saved then his performance is less than competent and would be marked much lower. On the other hand he keeps a clean sheet with half a dozen world class saves and in addition saves three penalties then I would expect the mark to represent significantly above competent even though he is 'just making saves' which is an essential part of his job.Golfie holds an alternative viewpoint
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Don't think we'll be flirting with relegation and I do think we'll get better... but... all the sides we've beaten so far are bottom half, including the bottom three. You can only beat what's in front of you and games against Millwall, Bristol City and even Leicester show competitiveness, but when I look at the Preston and QPR performances, I worry we lack the quality, especially up front, to remain top half. But anywhere in that third quarter of the table (13 - 18th) would be fine for first year back.Sword65pf said:A Few people suggesting they expected or still might see us flirting with a relegation battle, do they actually believe this? Or are they saying it so’s not to be overly disappointed if we end up in that situation. I just haven’t seen anything to suggest this is on the cards so far this season… or am I being too optimistic?. NJ’s teams get better as the season progresses, hoping this runs true this season.6 -
I do think Tanto and Kelman could be effective. Kelman is growing into games and he really just needs that goal to get him going but it isnt for the lack of trying, I am confident in saying he would scored against Weds if that defender didnt recover from his own mistake with a great challenge.
Tanto is a wrecking ball first and foremost, just powers at/through defenders with ease and carries the ball so well. His press is decent and is already off the mark with a goal. Just looks a decent player.
TC may have played the ball to Carey but contributed nothing after. He could have been knackered from INT duty but I dont think a break will do him harm.8 -
I think a potential issue is that the players know they are good at shutting up shop. I think it is more of an issue away from home but was an issue on Saturday. It is better when they keep on the gas at home like they did against Blackburn. Away from home the balance has to be a bit different but we need to carry more of a threat as it doesn't help when the home team decides to go for it. The quality of teams to make something out of that is better at this level although if I am being honest, I don't think the level is the step up I thought it would be and Jones will get it all sorted. We have had a great start and I feel we haven't reached our top levels yet which has to be good.Chunes said:I don't feel like our subs changed the game negatively. We lost control because our levels were dropping, we were switching off, and Bannon was dropping into an almost left-back position, which we didn't get to grips with.
I thought Leaburn and Olaofe were really good. Miles won his headers, and directed them to our players, and Olaofe scores our third if their goalkeeper doesn't poleaxe him.
I'm really happy with three points and our performance in this league so far. We deserved the win and on many occasions, they got very lucky with the bounce of the ball, particularly when we challenged on the press. We were almost through on goal 2-3 times, but for an unfortunate rebound off their player's shins.
A very good result and we're showing we can pick up a good amount of points in this league.1 -
Sword65pf said:A Few people suggesting they expected or still might see us flirting with a relegation battle, do they actually believe this? Or are they saying it so’s not to be overly disappointed if we end up in that situation. I just haven’t seen anything to suggest this is on the cards so far this season… or am I being too optimistic?. NJ’s teams get better as the season progresses, hoping this runs true this season.It's a question of when the injuries and suspensions kick in, and how badly. As this tweet from CAFC Facts and Stats points out, in 2019 we were 7th after 12 games with 21 pointsNow, it's not unreasonable to think that we're in a better position as a club than we were back then for all sorts of reasons, but you can't rule out the possibility of the wheels coming off at some point, and we need to be prepared for that. Because if it does happen we're going to need to channel the energy of the 5-4 game v Cardiff during Chris Powell's time, and give the players the kind of support that drives them on to win from unpromising positions. As a fanbase we've been great so far, but we've not really had to deal with a string of losses yet (Cambridge in the cup doesn't count), so it's important to keep our feet on the ground a bit.12
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Fascinating stuff as ever.golfaddick said:My viewpoint is that I don't wet the bed when TC makes ONE successful pass In a 60 min appearance. If he makes half a dozen that leads to chances (missed or converted) then I'll give him some praise. If he has a shot on target that the keeper has to save then I'll be ecstatic.
6 assists in a game = some praise
A saved shot on target = ecstasy
The crowd awaits with bated breath to hear what makes you wet the bed6 -
It's pretty clear that Nathan Jones doesn't believe any of his forwards can keep up the high-energy closing down for 90 mins, hence he makes the changes when he does.
Also, none of his available forwards have played much or any Championship football before this season, so he's being careful about how many minutes he gives to each one....knowing that it could take some months before players get conditioned to the higher level.1 -
I was worried about TC coming into this season because he’s had very little time off at all in the last year and an half. Apart from a short spell where he was injured last season. In the summer he barely had any break, going from play offs to international duty, and then was there for Day 1 of pre-seasonking addick said:I do think Tanto and Kelman could be effective. Kelman is growing into games and he really just needs that goal to get him going but it isnt for the lack of trying, I am confident in saying he would scored against Weds if that defender didnt recover from his own mistake with a great challenge.
Tanto is a wrecking ball first and foremost, just powers at/through defenders with ease and carries the ball so well. His press is decent and is already off the mark with a goal. Just looks a decent player.
TC may have played the ball to Carey but contributed nothing after. He could have been knackered from INT duty but I dont think a break will do him harm.
He's such an important player for us and the way we setup, so I can see why Jones starts him every game, and his fitness is very good but surely every player has a limit? Think there’s a chance he flags a bit later in the season if he isn’t managed a bit more now1 -
I really struggle to see what others do with TC. His end product is not good, he gives the ball away frequently, makes the wrong decisions. Yes he has the occasional great bit of play/skill but I feel the negatives outweigh the positives. I’d like to see him brought off the bench in the last 20 mins rather than starting. Tanto and Kelman should be the starting pair.Also what do Rankin-Costello and Apter have to do to get on the pitch? RC is a proven championship player and Apter was our best player for the first few games. I think they should be getting some game time, starting with Ipswich7
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Absolutely agree we shouldn’t get overconfident, but we as a fan base tend to lean to pessimism, for obvious reasons. But I feel we are trending more to the side punching above our weight proving experts wrong that we were in the curbs days.Not there yet but a damn site better off than we were. Our squad at the moment is the best it’s been for a long time so injuries I think we will handle, with the exception of a Coventry replacement maybe.There is a buzz around the place at the moment and you are right it needs us to keep positive, however difficult some might find it.aliwibble said:Sword65pf said:A Few people suggesting they expected or still might see us flirting with a relegation battle, do they actually believe this? Or are they saying it so’s not to be overly disappointed if we end up in that situation. I just haven’t seen anything to suggest this is on the cards so far this season… or am I being too optimistic?. NJ’s teams get better as the season progresses, hoping this runs true this season.It's a question of when the injuries and suspensions kick in, and how badly. As this tweet from CAFC Facts and Stats points out, in 2019 we were 7th after 12 games with 21 pointsNow, it's not unreasonable to think that we're in a better position as a club than we were back then for all sorts of reasons, but you can't rule out the possibility of the wheels coming off at some point, and we need to be prepared for that. Because if it does happen we're going to need to channel the energy of the 5-4 game v Cardiff during Chris Powell's time, and give the players the kind of support that drives them on to win from unpromising positions. As a fanbase we've been great so far, but we've not really had to deal with a string of losses yet (Cambridge in the cup doesn't count), so it's important to keep our feet on the ground a bit.0 -
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And despite our decent squad, we are still vulnerable in key areas to any injuries. Losing Jones or one of the midfielders Doc and Coventry would be a major blow.Jonniesta said:
Don't think we'll be flirting with relegation and I do think we'll get better... but... all the sides we've beaten so far are bottom half, including the bottom three. You can only beat what's in front of you and games against Millwall, Bristol City and even Leicester show competitiveness, but when I look at the Preston and QPR performances, I worry we lack the quality, especially up front, to remain top half. But anywhere in that third quarter of the table (13 - 18th) would be fine for first year back.Sword65pf said:A Few people suggesting they expected or still might see us flirting with a relegation battle, do they actually believe this? Or are they saying it so’s not to be overly disappointed if we end up in that situation. I just haven’t seen anything to suggest this is on the cards so far this season… or am I being too optimistic?. NJ’s teams get better as the season progresses, hoping this runs true this season.0 -
TC is second for chances created for us, if you take out set pieces then he’d be 1st ahead of Bree. He can definitely still get better at that side of the game though, even people like myself that really rate him know thatChamps85 said:I really struggle to see what others do with TC. His end product is not good, he gives the ball away frequently, makes the wrong decisions. Yes he has the occasional great bit of play/skill but I feel the negatives outweigh the positives. I’d like to see him brought off the bench in the last 20 mins rather than starting. Tanto and Kelman should be the starting pair.Also what do Rankin-Costello and Apter have to do to get on the pitch? RC is a proven championship player and Apter was our best player for the first few games. I think they should be getting some game time, starting with IpswichWhat makes him so important is that he’s an out ball that consistently gets us up the pitch. Looking at the stats he carries the ball 121m per 90 minutes on the pitch. Apter is also very good at this, but if you play Bree on the right instead of Apter, then you almost have to start TC as otherwise we don’t have a player that can do that. To start attacks and score goals you need to get the ball up the right end of the pitch, and TC is one of our best ways of doing that. Even if he’s not scoring or assisting at the end of a run, he could have won us a free kick, throw in, or just got us 20 yards up the pitch and kept the ball, where we can now attack and score from
For carries per 90 minutes that end in a chance, TC is 3rd in the championship. Saturday was a prime example, he drove at their defence and then slipped in Carey for a shotI think if TC got injured and missed a few games, the doubters would realise how important he is. It’s not even that he is that brilliant a player, we all see the flaws he has in his game. But he’s just so important to the setup and the role he plays for the team is why Jones will continue to pick him every week because we are a worse team without him33 -
We don’t know how good Costello is yet so we don’t know how big a blow it would be to lose Docherty or Coventrykillerandflash said:
And despite our decent squad, we are still vulnerable in key areas to any injuries. Losing Jones or one of the midfielders Doc and Coventry would be a major blow.Jonniesta said:
Don't think we'll be flirting with relegation and I do think we'll get better... but... all the sides we've beaten so far are bottom half, including the bottom three. You can only beat what's in front of you and games against Millwall, Bristol City and even Leicester show competitiveness, but when I look at the Preston and QPR performances, I worry we lack the quality, especially up front, to remain top half. But anywhere in that third quarter of the table (13 - 18th) would be fine for first year back.Sword65pf said:A Few people suggesting they expected or still might see us flirting with a relegation battle, do they actually believe this? Or are they saying it so’s not to be overly disappointed if we end up in that situation. I just haven’t seen anything to suggest this is on the cards so far this season… or am I being too optimistic?. NJ’s teams get better as the season progresses, hoping this runs true this season.At the back I think we are fine. A back 3 of Ramsay, Burke and Gillesphey would be fine, and that’s without Bell because he’s playing wing back while Edwards is out1 -
Great 3 points what is evident by looking at the table is any team is capable for beating any team, so every win is huge5
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"Having been shown a straight red card, it was possible Horvath may have been forced to miss up to three matches. However, the ban will only see him miss the clash with Rob Edwards’ side, with the foul not deemed to have been violent conduct."14
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Pace and the ability to stretch the game out, is what I'm seeing.Champs85 said:I really struggle to see what others do with TC.
Goals and consistency are missing from his game but this is a whole new level for him. The challenge for him and the coaching staff, will be for him to make the step up. It's early days yet.4 -
Not particularly keen on stats, they can really be used to sway the narrative in which you are trying to push.Ultimately watching TC can be great and infuriating all at once. At the moment due to the shape of the team he has a very specific job. He’s not a striker so I don’t expect lots of goals from him, but a few more assists and better end product is what’s needed, however if that happens he gets looked at by lower prem teams. Think Hernandez may get a chance in TC’s position at some point.0
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TC would be a huge loss if he were taken out the side. He runs at defenders, and defenders hate that. We really don't to become a bunch of sideways merchants who rely on crosses and set pieces because we have nobody who can stretch the game.6
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Costello has so far played SIX minutes in 10 games, despite there being plenty of games where our midfielders looked tired or were on bookings and him being on the bench for every game. That doesn't suggest NJ sees him as being at the same level as Doc or Coventry.NabySarr said:
We don’t know how good Costello is yet so we don’t know how big a blow it would be to lose Docherty or Coventrykillerandflash said:
And despite our decent squad, we are still vulnerable in key areas to any injuries. Losing Jones or one of the midfielders Doc and Coventry would be a major blow.Jonniesta said:
Don't think we'll be flirting with relegation and I do think we'll get better... but... all the sides we've beaten so far are bottom half, including the bottom three. You can only beat what's in front of you and games against Millwall, Bristol City and even Leicester show competitiveness, but when I look at the Preston and QPR performances, I worry we lack the quality, especially up front, to remain top half. But anywhere in that third quarter of the table (13 - 18th) would be fine for first year back.Sword65pf said:A Few people suggesting they expected or still might see us flirting with a relegation battle, do they actually believe this? Or are they saying it so’s not to be overly disappointed if we end up in that situation. I just haven’t seen anything to suggest this is on the cards so far this season… or am I being too optimistic?. NJ’s teams get better as the season progresses, hoping this runs true this season.At the back I think we are fine. A back 3 of Ramsay, Burke and Gillesphey would be fine, and that’s without Bell because he’s playing wing back while Edwards is out0 -
Usually gets doubled up on as well which then allows others the space. We’d definitely be a worse team without himcafcnick1992 said:TC would be a huge loss if he were taken out the side. He runs at defenders, and defenders hate that. We really don't to become a bunch of sideways merchants who rely on crosses and set pieces because we have nobody who can stretch the game.5 -
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We definitely ARE a worse team without TC. He goes off, the opposition score. Fortunately only once on Saturday but Preston, Derby and Millwall we dropped points.1
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Was gonna LOL this, then thought there's nothing funny about it, absolutely a crap decision, but did we actually expect anything else from our "governing body"mendonca said:"Having been shown a straight red card, it was possible Horvath may have been forced to miss up to three matches. However, the ban will only see him miss the clash with Rob Edwards’ side, with the foul not deemed to have been violent conduct."
So, on the field of play it's ok to forearm smash somebody and get away with it, try it on a Saturday (or any other day come to that) and you would be on an ABH charge... unbelievable stuff...7 -
At a certain age, the answer to that question is "falling asleep".Michaelmon said:
Fascinating stuff as ever.golfaddick said:My viewpoint is that I don't wet the bed when TC makes ONE successful pass In a 60 min appearance. If he makes half a dozen that leads to chances (missed or converted) then I'll give him some praise. If he has a shot on target that the keeper has to save then I'll be ecstatic.
6 assists in a game = some praise
A saved shot on target = ecstasy
The crowd awaits with bated breath to hear what makes you wet the bed3 -
Wednesday keeper has been given 1 game ban ?????? Straight red should be three surely ???0
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RonnieMoore said:Wednesday keeper has been given 1 game ban ?????? Straight red should be three surely ???
Their fans agree!6 -
I think the offence of stopping a clear goal scoring opportunity is a one game ban and to make it a three game ban you have to look at the peril and severity of the challenge. I think it was on the borderline of three games but I can see why it was one game.2
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1 match ban for a "professional foul" rather than violent conduct presumably.
Assuming he's their best keeper, as they play Oxford on Saturday, I'd rather Wednesday have a strong team for that game anyway,0 -
I think their best keeper is injured. I wasn't impressed with him to be honest. The general rule from my perspective is that away keepers play well at the Valley but he was an exception.0
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Mick McManus would have been proud of that forearm smash on Tanto...
Makes you wonder what violent conduct looks like to the FA...0 -
It was NOT violent conduct. Law 12 is quite clear: namely if, in the opinion of the referee, the ball was part of the whole incident, the offence is serious foul play. Incidents of violent conduct are such things as a punch or headbutt etc "off of the ball".eastterrace6168 said:Mick McManus would have been proud of that forearm smash on Tanto...
Makes you wonder what violent conduct looks like to the FA...3
