You're the Board - what are the targets and expectations for the 26/27 season?

jimmymelrose said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

Carter has already stated that their aim is to have a mid table budget in 3 years time so I would expect just a modest increase on this seasons bottom three budget.

I’m expecting no pivot to expansive, attacking football, I think there will be more of the same, if we want to survive. I also think it’s going to be hard to expect NJ to overachieve on our budget two years in a row, so I’m expecting us to stay where we are, not in a relegation fight but around the same finishing position. 

I worry that a lot of the fan base will become frustrated with NJ because they will perceive a lack of progress, when actually he is working miracles with the finances we will have. Blaming what will turn out to be our best manager for a decade when their frustration emanates from the funding of the club. Yet the owners are still losing a huge amount of money each year and want to keep those losses manageable, and avoid points deductions.

I personally don’t get this obsession with playing expansive football, did we turn into Spurs all of a sudden? Does anyone remember the Curbs PL years and his mantra of ‘stop the opposition playing their game’. Perhaps the same fans demanding pretty football now are the same that said Curbs had taken us a far as he could. 

Just what is this 'expansive football.'
 
Is it too much to ask for a team that
passes the ball forwards on the ground, creating openings and taking a shot on goal.

That's all many fans are asking for, not to bang it in the air like a hot potato that needs cooling down and to land aimlessly and fruitlessly on some tall bugger's head.

Is that really too much to ask?

You can play real football AND stop the opposition playing their game you know?

I understand what people are trying to say with 'Expansive' and 'Entertaining' football. What people actually want is more goals, and the creation of higher quality chances at a greater frequency. Now the question is, do we have to be 'Entertaining' in order to do that? We struggle to break blocks down, so getting the quality in to do that is key for a start.

ShootersHillGuru said:

carly burn said:

CafcSteve said:

carly burn said:

Do we think Apter and Oloafe have a future at the club?

Apter definitely won’t after how bad his loan spell at Bolton has gone.

Tanto has more chance but suspect that he might go out on loan again.

I think the other way round  for some reason.

I feel there was a clash of playing styles with Apter and Jones. If he comes back and offers to completely buy into becoming the playerJones wanted him to be when he signed him and not the player Apter wants to be, then I can see him staying.
I think Tanto may be moved on.

Then you have to ask the question why he was signed. Perhaps it was thought he could adjust to NJ’s demands but it’s now fairly obvious he couldn’t and perhaps more importantly wouldn’t. Loan at Bolton where he should have been busting a gut to either get a move or prove to Jones he’s good enough has been by the comments of Bolton fans a disaster. I think he’s burnt all bridges at The Valley and we’ll never see him in first team contention again. As for Tanto. I just don’t think he’s got Championship quality. Questions over scouting on both.

Surely Apter’s position / role would have been discussed with him prior to signing, he must have thought he’d be capable. 

First and foremost decide how much there is to spend and then decide whether we stick with Jones or Bring in another manager

If I was a board member I'd arrange a meeting, keep everyone waiting 20 minutes and then do the power walk in clutching a laptop under my arm.

Having taken position at the head of the table, I'd open the laptop, make a few clicks and spin it around.

"OK gentlemen, I've just transferred 10 million into the Charlton Athletic war chest and I expect each and every one of you to do the same".

Pause for effect, close laptop and walk to the door, there I'd spin around and say,

"Number One ...  in South London."

... and leave.

Henry Irving said:

3. Convert the casino into a museum. Shocking that a club with our history doesn't have a museum.






We do have a museum, its in the far corner of the north stand on the middle level.  Entrance is near the East Stand turnstiles.  

Don't really care about style until we've got a squad that can play in that way, until then some of you will have to suck it up

Raith_C_Chattonell said:

If I was a board member I'd arrange a meeting, keep everyone waiting 20 minutes and then do the power walk in clutching a laptop under my arm.

Having taken position at the head of the table, I'd open the laptop, make a few clicks and spin it around.

"OK gentlemen, I've just transferred 10 million into the Charlton Athletic war chest and I expect each and every one of you to do the same".

Pause for effect, close laptop and walk to the door, there I'd spin around and say,

"Number One ...  in South London."

... and leave.

Sorry in this fantasy are you/the board member Vladimir Putin? 🤣

CombeMartin said:

Henry Irving said:

3. Convert the casino into a museum. Shocking that a club with our history doesn't have a museum.






We do have a museum, its in the far corner of the north stand on the middle level.  Entrance is near the East Stand turnstiles.  

The club should being doing more to publicise it then, I've never seen it mentioned on here.

aliwibble said:

DOUCHER said:

Targets:

mid table finish
beat millwall x 2 
increase revenue / commercial income / sponsorship - whatever it is that allows us to spend more on players 
play better football
get elite academy status 
have a decent cup run or 2 

Realistically, finish higher than we have this year and play some better football will do. 

We've  not beaten them once in thirty years, and you're aiming for twice in a season?  Bit unrealistic, no? I'd settle for just not losing to them, to be honest, and finishing 13-18. "Play better football" is a nice to have, but less important than "win enough games to be safe by mid-April" and is reliant on us having players able to play that way. I'm still somewhat scarred by the attempts to play it out from the back under Ben Garner.

It's a target - i'd like to think that next year we don't put out the worst line up we've had all season for the one away game where it matters most - they wouldn't do that but how many times do we? - we'll turn up for swansea and wrexham if jones gets a team to turn up for millwall. Anyway, that's a side show, i'll go with my last line.  

Style of play is important. Conceding large amounts of possession in every game is nearly always going to mean you’re chasing. It’s simple but you can’t score a goal without having the ball and the obvious contrast is that when the opposition has the ball there is always a chance of them scoring. I’d like to see us dominating teams particularly at The Valley instead of setting up to stymie them and nick something. It puts enormous pressure on the attackers who by definition get less chances and then need to convert when they do. I fully understand that this season Jones saw this tactic as the best way of achieving survival and fair play he did. No complaints. This is about next season when I’m expecting not to see statistics of possession in the 30% 40% every game. We have to change. I’ve no doubt that Jones knows this and it will be reflected in our transfer dealings. 

SouthLincsAddick said:

jimmymelrose said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

Carter has already stated that their aim is to have a mid table budget in 3 years time so I would expect just a modest increase on this seasons bottom three budget.

I’m expecting no pivot to expansive, attacking football, I think there will be more of the same, if we want to survive. I also think it’s going to be hard to expect NJ to overachieve on our budget two years in a row, so I’m expecting us to stay where we are, not in a relegation fight but around the same finishing position. 

I worry that a lot of the fan base will become frustrated with NJ because they will perceive a lack of progress, when actually he is working miracles with the finances we will have. Blaming what will turn out to be our best manager for a decade when their frustration emanates from the funding of the club. Yet the owners are still losing a huge amount of money each year and want to keep those losses manageable, and avoid points deductions.

I personally don’t get this obsession with playing expansive football, did we turn into Spurs all of a sudden? Does anyone remember the Curbs PL years and his mantra of ‘stop the opposition playing their game’. Perhaps the same fans demanding pretty football now are the same that said Curbs had taken us a far as he could. 

Just what is this 'expansive football.'
 
Is it too much to ask for a team that
passes the ball forwards on the ground, creating openings and taking a shot on goal.

That's all many fans are asking for, not to bang it in the air like a hot potato that needs cooling down and to land aimlessly and fruitlessly on some tall bugger's head.

Is that really too much to ask?

You can play real football AND stop the opposition playing their game you know?

Just what is 'real' football and can we play it on the budget we have, our players can pass the ball around but not as consistently as the players we're facing who are paid twice as much? We also can't afford the decent strikers who are going to get the goals. It means employing a defensive, disruptive style of play for survival. Go toe to toe with better opposition will more than often mean defeat.

NJ has been in charge of nearly 500 professional games, coached under 21s, won multiple promotions and has been our most successful manager for years. I would credit him that he knows what he's doing and is only pursuing the current style of play to get success, not because it's his preference. Yet, many fans are not happy, they want the impossible, they want 'real', 'attractive' football, promotions and stability and all on the 3rd worst budget in the league, if there were any professional coaching staff reading this forum, they'd have a chuckle and shake their heads.  

To a certain extent your right, but I disagree with two main points:


1. NJ’s preference IS this style of football.  If it were easily quantifiable I would bet that, even with a large budget, he’d still choose to play the same way. In fact, he’s proven so already at other clubs.

2. Some of our players are underrated and could play better football, they’re just being held back by the system. You mention a decent striker for example but we’ve got one: Kelman.  Play the ball to his feet in and around the box and he’d be a 20 goal Championship striker. Apter can’t defend for toffee but as a winger, he be a great provider for Kelman. It’s frustrating and I don’t buy into all this repetitive narrative about not having the players to play any other way. 

jimmymelrose said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

jimmymelrose said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

Carter has already stated that their aim is to have a mid table budget in 3 years time so I would expect just a modest increase on this seasons bottom three budget.

I’m expecting no pivot to expansive, attacking football, I think there will be more of the same, if we want to survive. I also think it’s going to be hard to expect NJ to overachieve on our budget two years in a row, so I’m expecting us to stay where we are, not in a relegation fight but around the same finishing position. 

I worry that a lot of the fan base will become frustrated with NJ because they will perceive a lack of progress, when actually he is working miracles with the finances we will have. Blaming what will turn out to be our best manager for a decade when their frustration emanates from the funding of the club. Yet the owners are still losing a huge amount of money each year and want to keep those losses manageable, and avoid points deductions.

I personally don’t get this obsession with playing expansive football, did we turn into Spurs all of a sudden? Does anyone remember the Curbs PL years and his mantra of ‘stop the opposition playing their game’. Perhaps the same fans demanding pretty football now are the same that said Curbs had taken us a far as he could. 

Just what is this 'expansive football.'
 
Is it too much to ask for a team that
passes the ball forwards on the ground, creating openings and taking a shot on goal.

That's all many fans are asking for, not to bang it in the air like a hot potato that needs cooling down and to land aimlessly and fruitlessly on some tall bugger's head.

Is that really too much to ask?

You can play real football AND stop the opposition playing their game you know?

Just what is 'real' football and can we play it on the budget we have, our players can pass the ball around but not as consistently as the players we're facing who are paid twice as much? We also can't afford the decent strikers who are going to get the goals. It means employing a defensive, disruptive style of play for survival. Go toe to toe with better opposition will more than often mean defeat.

NJ has been in charge of nearly 500 professional games, coached under 21s, won multiple promotions and has been our most successful manager for years. I would credit him that he knows what he's doing and is only pursuing the current style of play to get success, not because it's his preference. Yet, many fans are not happy, they want the impossible, they want 'real', 'attractive' football, promotions and stability and all on the 3rd worst budget in the league, if there were any professional coaching staff reading this forum, they'd have a chuckle and shake their heads.  

To a certain extent your right, but I disagree with two main points:


1. NJ’s preference IS this style of football.  If it were easily quantifiable I would bet that, even with a large budget, he’d still choose to play the same way. In fact, he’s proven so already at other clubs.

2. Some of our players are underrated and could play better football, they’re just being held back by the system. You mention a decent striker for example but we’ve got one: Kelman.  Play the ball to his feet in and around the box and he’d be a 20 goal Championship striker. Apter can’t defend for toffee but as a winger, he be a great provider for Kelman. It’s frustrating and I don’t buy into all this repetitive narrative about not having the players to play any other way. 

I'm no expert but it's been mentioned many times on this forum by a lot more informed people than me, that at Luton he played an exciting brand of football with pacy wingbacks, Luton weren't particularly flush but NJ did have Chapple there unearthing gems throughout their rise up the leagues. Chapple only started with us last summer. Also, NJ has played very different variations this season, he's had to pivot because of injuries and other teams working out the best way to beat us. We've had the high press, low block, long ball, sometimes all in one game.

The rumours swirling around last summer suggested Kelman wasn't our first choice by a long way, we were beaten on wages every time, so we ended up with him because no one else wanted him in this league. That's fine, he's a great player who will get better, but I spat my tea out with the idea he's a 20 goal a season striker, that's top two in this league, above Wright, Clarke and Windass. Do we have the players who can pass a ball to his feet, no. Everyone is constantly moaning about our midfield not having enough creativity. Do we think those kind of creative players are paid well and are sought after, of course, and more than we could afford with the third lowest budget in the league.

ShootersHillGuru said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Style of play is important. Conceding large amounts of possession in every game is nearly always going to mean you’re chasing. It’s simple but you can’t score a goal without having the ball and the obvious contrast is that when the opposition has the ball there is always a chance of them scoring. I’d like to see us dominating teams particularly at The Valley instead of setting up to stymie them and nick something. It puts enormous pressure on the attackers who by definition get less chances and then need to convert when they do. I fully understand that this season Jones saw this tactic as the best way of achieving survival and fair play he did. No complaints. This is about next season when I’m expecting not to see statistics of possession in the 30% 40% every game. We have to change. I’ve no doubt that Jones knows this and it will be reflected in our transfer dealings. 

Firstly, why do we have to change, it worked didn't it? Secondly, Carter has already said our budget won't be mid table for another 3 years (currently bottom three), the budget increase will be minimal next season. So why would we abandon a tactic that worked when we will still have one the worst budgets in the league? I'm sure there will be a gradual improvement but I don't understand this 'we have to change' attitude, we didn't get relegated, despite having the huge disadvantage in budget, what wrong are we trying to write?

If we set up like we have this season, next season I’ll be expecting another relegation battle. Just my opinion. 

Fair enough, valid opinion. But were we in a relegation battle this year?

I believe we should aim to become the Preston North End of London. 

Rothko said:

jimmymelrose said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

jimmymelrose said:

SouthLincsAddick said:

Carter has already stated that their aim is to have a mid table budget in 3 years time so I would expect just a modest increase on this seasons bottom three budget.

I’m expecting no pivot to expansive, attacking football, I think there will be more of the same, if we want to survive. I also think it’s going to be hard to expect NJ to overachieve on our budget two years in a row, so I’m expecting us to stay where we are, not in a relegation fight but around the same finishing position. 

I worry that a lot of the fan base will become frustrated with NJ because they will perceive a lack of progress, when actually he is working miracles with the finances we will have. Blaming what will turn out to be our best manager for a decade when their frustration emanates from the funding of the club. Yet the owners are still losing a huge amount of money each year and want to keep those losses manageable, and avoid points deductions.

I personally don’t get this obsession with playing expansive football, did we turn into Spurs all of a sudden? Does anyone remember the Curbs PL years and his mantra of ‘stop the opposition playing their game’. Perhaps the same fans demanding pretty football now are the same that said Curbs had taken us a far as he could. 

Just what is this 'expansive football.'
 
Is it too much to ask for a team that
passes the ball forwards on the ground, creating openings and taking a shot on goal.

That's all many fans are asking for, not to bang it in the air like a hot potato that needs cooling down and to land aimlessly and fruitlessly on some tall bugger's head.

Is that really too much to ask?

You can play real football AND stop the opposition playing their game you know?

Just what is 'real' football and can we play it on the budget we have, our players can pass the ball around but not as consistently as the players we're facing who are paid twice as much? We also can't afford the decent strikers who are going to get the goals. It means employing a defensive, disruptive style of play for survival. Go toe to toe with better opposition will more than often mean defeat.

NJ has been in charge of nearly 500 professional games, coached under 21s, won multiple promotions and has been our most successful manager for years. I would credit him that he knows what he's doing and is only pursuing the current style of play to get success, not because it's his preference. Yet, many fans are not happy, they want the impossible, they want 'real', 'attractive' football, promotions and stability and all on the 3rd worst budget in the league, if there were any professional coaching staff reading this forum, they'd have a chuckle and shake their heads.  

To a certain extent your right, but I disagree with two main points:


1. NJ’s preference IS this style of football.  If it were easily quantifiable I would have bet that, even with a large budget, he’d still choose to play the same way. In fact, he’s proven so already at other clubs.

2. Some of our players are underrated and could play better football, they’re just being held back by the system. You mention a decent striker for example but we’ve got one: Kelman.  Play the ball to his feet in and around the box and he’d be a 20 goal Championship striker. Apter can’t defend for toffee but as a winger, he be a great provider for Kelman. It’s frustrating and I don’t buy into all this repetitive narrative about not having the players to play any other way. 

This just isn’t true, his Luton teams were high scoring teams who played really good attacking football 

His Luton teams were not high scoring in The Championship,  and I wouldn't define it as good attacking football 

 Luton got to fifth in The Championship in April 2022, after which they lost in the play-offs and then he never took them any higher because he left and went to Southampton. 


This is from https://themastermindsite.com/2022/04/29/nathan-jones-luton-town-tactical-analysis/

”Despite their high position in the table, Luton have accumulated just 44.2% of the possession this season – the fourth lowest in the league. But rather than just soaking up all the pressure in their defensively minded 5-3-2, Luton press from the front and then look to hit teams on the counter. They play a direct passing style, with verticality in their quick transitions, and constantly search for their target men up front from any situation.