EFL Playoffs 25/26 (Saints booted out of final and given 4 point deduction - pg34)

gringo said:

blackpool72 said:

stoneroses19 said:

Not knowing the rules is no excuse. 
It's like breaking the law and getting caught and saying you never knew it was against the Law.

Theres no speed limit on motorways in Germany imagine how many Germanians could use this as an excuse when caught on the M25? theres me blaming the drivers of Audis, Mercs and Beemers perhaps its just there cars computers need updating.

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

charltonkeston said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I suspect they spied on more than Oxford and Ipswich. They have admitted those two as, conveniently, it doesn't affect anything directly in the table. Ipswich got promoted and were way behind Coventry and Oxford finished four points below West Brom. I suspect, they knew it would come out that it wasn't a one off and admitting to only two, they thought would be less damaging in terms of punishment and might prevent the EFL digging further. I said this before it came out that they almost certainly will have history of doing it under this manager. Whatever anybody says, including ex players, it absolutely gives them a potential advantage. Why Oxford and not some other club? If it does come out, they may face a much stiffer punishment than minus four points next season.

In terms of an appeal, it will be heard by different people appointed by the league. I would expect they will not look at everything using a blank sheet, including the punishment but instead look at the robustness of the decision against possible future legal challenge. I wouldn't give Southampton much chance of winning the appeal. We slag of the EFL enough but they have acted in the interests of the game here and I doubt this sort of cheating will happen again.

That's exactly my take. They have admitted cheating and conveniently been allowed to plead guilty with evidence that conveniently doesn't appear to have damaged the main competition, the league. I have trouble believing they spied on two league games only. Why those two and not more or even every one they played in? So a 4 points deduction for that alone I'd say was pretty lenient. But they also admitted cheating in the play offs and were hit with expulsion from the competition, the ultimate sanction. I think they may of got off lightly here, cheating like this cannot be tolerated and for once I think EFL has got the punishment pretty spot on although I would have awarded all 3 points to the two teams they have admitted spying on but they would have obviously complicated matters somewhat.
I expect the FA will now want to have a good look at this, nothing brings the game in to more disrepute than cheating. I would think they, (the FA), will charge Southampton as a club and a few employees with bringing the game into disrepute and a few other charges that I can't think of.
I don't feel sorry for the Saints fans whatsoever, they have also gained from cheating, it might not of have been their doing but my god didn't they  enjoy themselves at others expense, a really good run and a huge belly laugh at Middlesbrough and many in fancy dress, tossers. Quite a few of them have mentioned the 115 elephants in the room Man City have but miss the point they are not part of that and will remain no part of that league or organisation for at least another season, not that they really took part in that league during to one prior to the one we just finished.

I do, they've been totally shafted by the actions of their manager and his staff.

If you were a Southampton fan who's spent thousands of pounds watching your team home and away this season, travelling hundreds of miles for most away games, then i'm sure you'd be pretty fucked off at this. Yes they got to see a lot of wins but ultimately it's a completely wasted season and was all for nothing. It could even set them back a couple of years as some of their better players will surely be sold and they'll probably soon be looking for a new manager.

Most fans i've seen online are saying their club has totally let them down.

Callumcafc said:

https://x.com/nozza_/status/2057012330689343505?s=46&t=ynww82GMl7VKBjthBflU0g

charltonkeston said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

charltonkeston said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

I suspect they spied on more than Oxford and Ipswich. They have admitted those two as, conveniently, it doesn't affect anything directly in the table. Ipswich got promoted and were way behind Coventry and Oxford finished four points below West Brom. I suspect, they knew it would come out that it wasn't a one off and admitting to only two, they thought would be less damaging in terms of punishment and might prevent the EFL digging further. I said this before it came out that they almost certainly will have history of doing it under this manager. Whatever anybody says, including ex players, it absolutely gives them a potential advantage. Why Oxford and not some other club? If it does come out, they may face a much stiffer punishment than minus four points next season.

In terms of an appeal, it will be heard by different people appointed by the league. I would expect they will not look at everything using a blank sheet, including the punishment but instead look at the robustness of the decision against possible future legal challenge. I wouldn't give Southampton much chance of winning the appeal. We slag of the EFL enough but they have acted in the interests of the game here and I doubt this sort of cheating will happen again.

That's exactly my take. They have admitted cheating and conveniently been allowed to plead guilty with evidence that conveniently doesn't appear to have damaged the main competition, the league. I have trouble believing they spied on two league games only. Why those two and not more or even every one they played in? So a 4 points deduction for that alone I'd say was pretty lenient. But they also admitted cheating in the play offs and were hit with expulsion from the competition, the ultimate sanction. I think they may of got off lightly here, cheating like this cannot be tolerated and for once I think EFL has got the punishment pretty spot on although I would have awarded all 3 points to the two teams they have admitted spying on but they would have obviously complicated matters somewhat.
I expect the FA will now want to have a good look at this, nothing brings the game in to more disrepute than cheating. I would think they, (the FA), will charge Southampton as a club and a few employees with bringing the game into disrepute and a few other charges that I can't think of.
I don't feel sorry for the Saints fans whatsoever, they have also gained from cheating, it might not of have been their doing but my god didn't they  enjoy themselves at others expense, a really good run and a huge belly laugh at Middlesbrough and many in fancy dress, tossers. Quite a few of them have mentioned the 115 elephants in the room Man City have but miss the point they are not part of that and will remain no part of that league or organisation for at least another season, not that they really took part in that league during to one prior to the one we just finished.

I do, they've been totally shafted by the actions of their manager and his staff.

If you were a Southampton fan who's spent thousands of pounds watching your team home and away this season, travelling hundreds of miles for most away games, then i'm sure you'd be pretty fucked off at this. Yes they got to see a lot of wins but ultimately it's a completely wasted season and was all for nothing. It could even set them back a couple of years as some of their better players will surely be sold and they'll probably soon be looking for a new manager.

Most fans i've seen online are saying their club has totally let them down.

Yet up until yesterday afternoon there was nothing from the Saints fans about being let down. I don't doubt they now feel very let down. I felt let down my team let 5 goals past them before halftime, I'm now feeling maybe there was more to this other than woeful defending. Probably wrong but I bet I'm not the only one and that goes for other clubs that got steam rolled along the way.
To be honest and I don't think I'm alone in this, I want every team to suffer other than Charlton so I really don't feel sorry for a club that has be found guilty of one of the worse things in sport, cheating.

Arsenetatters said:

Southampton to appeal today and the suggestion by the BBC that things could potentially change again. 

I can’t see what they can challenge tbh

jams said:

I actually think they've got off lightly - appreciate the EFL/comission can only go on what can be proved but if saints have been doing it all season (not a chance it was only three games) and therefore benefitted for every game then I think you could reasonably argue they should be relegated 

bobmunro said:

Chippycafc said:

The Red Robin said:

Chippycafc said:

This is nothing new getting caught is. I guess the most important factor is the 72 hour rule.

Years ago I got chatting to a guy who used to watch teams for Sunderland games coming up. This was when Peter Reid was there.

He showed me a little blue book that showed where every corner in a match went, and free kicks in and around the box and formation changes as the game progressed dependant on the score and  timings of the subs.

I saw him in the east stand on a few occasions as he said he wouldn't be obvious and got a great view there. He even probed me for information which I declined obviously.

Not sure where he lived, but it was past my stop in Basingstoke but saw him on several occasions on the train.

Maybe he lived in Southampton. 

That’s basic scouting. Which is allowed. Look in the West Stand of any Charlton game and it’s full of scouts for upcoming opponents sitting there in club clothing. 

I am sure never seen it before or since. 

Really? I've seen Nathan Jones attending matches of forthcoming opponents - all managers do it. They are not there for the hospitality! Every club has a network of analysts who attend games and then give detailed reports back to their club - I know that first hand, Chips, no Google search required. 

We will have analysts who do the same and it is perfectly acceptable to attend matches that are played in public - i.e. in the public domain. Undercover spying of private training sessions with binoculars and video cameras isn't the same is it?

The bulk of analysis now is done using computer programmes to analyse match videos but physically attending matches still gives a lot more useful information of what goes on 'off the ball'.

PrincessFiona said:

bobmunro said:

Chippycafc said:

The Red Robin said:

Chippycafc said:

This is nothing new getting caught is. I guess the most important factor is the 72 hour rule.

Years ago I got chatting to a guy who used to watch teams for Sunderland games coming up. This was when Peter Reid was there.

He showed me a little blue book that showed where every corner in a match went, and free kicks in and around the box and formation changes as the game progressed dependant on the score and  timings of the subs.

I saw him in the east stand on a few occasions as he said he wouldn't be obvious and got a great view there. He even probed me for information which I declined obviously.

Not sure where he lived, but it was past my stop in Basingstoke but saw him on several occasions on the train.

Maybe he lived in Southampton. 

That’s basic scouting. Which is allowed. Look in the West Stand of any Charlton game and it’s full of scouts for upcoming opponents sitting there in club clothing. 

I am sure never seen it before or since. 

Really? I've seen Nathan Jones attending matches of forthcoming opponents - all managers do it. They are not there for the hospitality! Every club has a network of analysts who attend games and then give detailed reports back to their club - I know that first hand, Chips, no Google search required. 

We will have analysts who do the same and it is perfectly acceptable to attend matches that are played in public - i.e. in the public domain. Undercover spying of private training sessions with binoculars and video cameras isn't the same is it?

The bulk of analysis now is done using computer programmes to analyse match videos but physically attending matches still gives a lot more useful information of what goes on 'off the ball'.

And the 72 hour rule is because that is when it is most likely specifically for one particular match

LIke others have said, I did wonder when we got tonked by them in the first half at home, how they had improved so dramatically and seemed to have worked us out

Athletico Charlton said:

If they have done this in other games which seems highly likely AND not admitted it then I suspect they will get absolutely clobbered of that was to come out.  Significant points deductions next season will be added I am sure.

Eckert if he knew about this which seems highly, highly likely will be very lucky not to get a football bad and, therefore, sacked l, by Saints.

Their players will be screaming, imagine missing out on playing at Wembley because your manager didn't have the faith in you to play games without a spy.

Middlesbrough will have been training as usual, no way their players all went on the piss / holiday with a chance of Wembley there, if they did then they are daft and don't deserve sympathy.

Hull on the other hand are unlucky as their whole prep is now thrown in the air.

I feel sorry for the intern, there will be a huge amount of stress on a young lad, likely on tiny wages, undertaking orders from above.  This will quite likely screw his career before it has started and could have serious mental health implications.  I hope he is being looked after.
Southampton should be compensating their fans fully for any out of pocket expense for this farce.