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ELON MUSK - Worlds first Trillionaire
Comments
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Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
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Musk is a very dangerous man, he uses his own X platform to promote mis/dis information. He is constantly meddling in the affairs of other countries, especially the UK.
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It's odd that he's so successful and yet comes across as so pathetic.4
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https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-engineer-quit-slam-elon-musk-leadership-linkedin-post-2025-9cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/11/10/teslas-engineering-exodus-comes-amid-shift-from-core-ev-mission/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-engineer-accuses-elon-musk-004000611.html
https://futurism.com/tesla-engineer-roasts-elon-musk
https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-autopilot-engineers-radar-removal/
https://medium.com/predict/musk-overruled-tesla-engineers-and-now-they-are-in-serious-trouble-2e37269e387a
There are literally thousands of accounts like these that say engineers spent the whole time trying to find ways around musks "decisions" or "developments" or directly ignored his ideas when he meddled in engineering. He's certainly used his whole propaganda machine and influence in government and the media to give the impression of his engineering "genius". The reality is a long long way away from that.
Both tesla and spaceX are famously structured internally specifically to handle Musk and his ideas, they have a team dedicated to listening to him then basically doing the minimum viable thing to make him think his ideas have been implemented. When management has such an adversarial relationship with the CEO, it's hard to see what contributions Ellen could have made to the products directly. As I said above he has was for a while a valuable viral marketing tool - that that time has long since passed.2 -
Using Steve jobs probably isn’t the best comparison, since he was famously and self admittedly some one who never invented anything new, wasn’t an engineer and spent most of his time screaming at his employees.cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly2 -
Scottish inventor Robert Anderson created the first crude electric powered vehicle in the 1830’s.
In 1881 French engineer Gustav Trouvé demonstrated a working three wheeled electric vehicle at the International Exposition of Electricity in Paris.
English inventor Thomas Parker built the first fully electric production car in Wolverhampton in 1884 which he drove daily to work.
In 1888 German Engineer Andreas Flocken built the first four wheeled electric wagon.
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I'm amazed, although I shouldn't be, that people hang on his every word.
Nobody is going to Mars. (I know they do in Hollywood but the real world throws up real problems)
His cars are ok but we've been making cars for over 100 years before he bought into a company. They have some nice features but also a lot of gadgetry. The line up is looking a bit tired.
His views are at best nonsense at worse dangerous.
His hair is absurd.
And his dad is of questionable character.
His obscene wealth does a lot to mask his failings.
But he is very good at making the rich and himself richer, so I suppose people equate wealth with knowledge as genius, maybe in hope that somehow his good fortune will rub off on them.
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This is all you need to know really. He's scum:
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Jonathan Pie is brilliant, this should be required viewing for everyone.charltonkeston said:4 -
There are some people who say Musk is a saviour because he generates jobs for people.
So did David Sullivan.0 -
Sponsored links:
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Can he play LWB?sam3110 said:He could end world hunger, end malaria, solve the clean water problem and still be the richest man in the world2 -
So just to clarify; the world's first trillionaire has no positive attributes when it comes to business, and is an absolute dufus who causes mass disruption in all the companies he works for?cantersaddick said:
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-engineer-quit-slam-elon-musk-leadership-linkedin-post-2025-9cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/11/10/teslas-engineering-exodus-comes-amid-shift-from-core-ev-mission/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-engineer-accuses-elon-musk-004000611.html
https://futurism.com/tesla-engineer-roasts-elon-musk
https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-autopilot-engineers-radar-removal/
https://medium.com/predict/musk-overruled-tesla-engineers-and-now-they-are-in-serious-trouble-2e37269e387a
There are literally thousands of accounts like these that say engineers spent the whole time trying to find ways around musks "decisions" or "developments" or directly ignored his ideas when he meddled in engineering. He's certainly used his whole propaganda machine and influence in government and the media to give the impression of his engineering "genius". The reality is a long long way away from that.
Both tesla and spaceX are famously structured internally specifically to handle Musk and his ideas, they have a team dedicated to listening to him then basically doing the minimum viable thing to make him think his ideas have been implemented. When management has such an adversarial relationship with the CEO, it's hard to see what contributions Ellen could have made to the products directly. As I said above he has was for a while a valuable viral marketing tool - that that time has long since passed.
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I reckon everybody probably (but not certainly) has some positive attributes.
At a guess I would suppose that Musk flushes the bog after taking a dump.1 -
Again no one has said that but nice try with the slippery slope fallacy. He clearly has some strengths including leveraging influence, rasing finance from governments and investors for projects that would never get funding without him fronting them and for a while he was very effective at garnering public support. He also effectively uses his propaganda machine. I'm sure he has other skills too. But engineer, visonary or genius he is not.cafcnick1992 said:
So just to clarify; the world's first trillionaire has no positive attributes when it comes to business, and is an absolute dufus who causes mass disruption in all the companies he works for?cantersaddick said:
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-engineer-quit-slam-elon-musk-leadership-linkedin-post-2025-9cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/11/10/teslas-engineering-exodus-comes-amid-shift-from-core-ev-mission/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-engineer-accuses-elon-musk-004000611.html
https://futurism.com/tesla-engineer-roasts-elon-musk
https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-autopilot-engineers-radar-removal/
https://medium.com/predict/musk-overruled-tesla-engineers-and-now-they-are-in-serious-trouble-2e37269e387a
There are literally thousands of accounts like these that say engineers spent the whole time trying to find ways around musks "decisions" or "developments" or directly ignored his ideas when he meddled in engineering. He's certainly used his whole propaganda machine and influence in government and the media to give the impression of his engineering "genius". The reality is a long long way away from that.
Both tesla and spaceX are famously structured internally specifically to handle Musk and his ideas, they have a team dedicated to listening to him then basically doing the minimum viable thing to make him think his ideas have been implemented. When management has such an adversarial relationship with the CEO, it's hard to see what contributions Ellen could have made to the products directly. As I said above he has was for a while a valuable viral marketing tool - that that time has long since passed.
The bootlicking obsession some people have with this fantasy version of the man was weird 10 years ago. Its just creepy as fuck now.1 -
The valuation of Tesla is based on his robot taxis, which don’t exist yet.Making_all_the_noise said:He is as obnoxious as everyone has pointed out but his wealth is not liquid, it’s tied up in what is to my mind, are some wildly overvalued equity holdings.He has a ridiculous cult of followers which inflates any of his company’s stock. It feels like institutional investors jump on the bandwagon to profit as well. None of the valuations seem to add up from what I can see. Value seems to be tied up in brand Musk. His genius was best put to the test by DOGE and it was an unmitigated failure.The valuation of SpaceX is based on his AI, which hasn’t made any money yet.0 -
Why did he make AI software that could produce child porn?5
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Bet he knows where to put an apostrophe in a discussion title.0
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I give this one til the end of the day, max0
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You forgot to mention they are all Musk’s ancestors.jose said:Scottish inventor Robert Anderson created the first crude electric powered vehicle in the 1830’s.
In 1881 French engineer Gustav Trouvé demonstrated a working three wheeled electric vehicle at the International Exposition of Electricity in Paris.
English inventor Thomas Parker built the first fully electric production car in Wolverhampton in 1884 which he drove daily to work.
In 1888 German Engineer Andreas Flocken built the first four wheeled electric wagon.1 -
I saw Jonathan Pie a couple of years back, I think at the Duke of Yorks, St Martin Lane. I liked the show but 2 hours of talking\ranting at speed isn't for everyone, certainly not my wife. I'm seeing the latest show at Hammersmith in the autumn, I didn't bother asking my wife, just bought myself a ticket.ME14addick said:
Jonathan Pie is brilliant, this should be required viewing for everyone.charltonkeston said:1 -
Sponsored links:
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charltonkeston said:
I saw Jonathan Pie a couple of years back, I think at the Duke of Yorks, St Martin Lane. I liked the show but 2 hours of talking\ranting at speed isn't for everyone, certainly not my wife. I'm seeing the latest show at Hammersmith in the autumn, I didn't bother asking my wife, just bought myself a ticket.ME14addick said:
Jonathan Pie is brilliant, this should be required viewing for everyone.charltonkeston said:
A very clever man if he can manage to speak for 2 hours.charltonkeston said:
I saw Jonathan Pie a couple of years back, I think at the Duke of Yorks, St Martin Lane. I liked the show but 2 hours of talking\ranting at speed isn't for everyone, certainly not my wife. I'm seeing the latest show at Hammersmith in the autumn, I didn't bother asking my wife, just bought myself a ticket.ME14addick said:
Jonathan Pie is brilliant, this should be required viewing for everyone.charltonkeston said:0 -
Trying to offer balance to the discussion isn't bootlicking. I'm not asking you to like or respect the man, but to claim he isn't a visionary takes some serious going when he has revolutionised the electric car industry, and currently oversees a company making re-usable rockets as a means of going to mars.cantersaddick said:
Again no one has said that but nice try with the slippery slope fallacy. He clearly has some strengths including leveraging influence, rasing finance from governments and investors for projects that would never get funding without him fronting them and for a while he was very effective at garnering public support. He also effectively uses his propaganda machine. I'm sure he has other skills too. But engineer, visonary or genius he is not.cafcnick1992 said:
So just to clarify; the world's first trillionaire has no positive attributes when it comes to business, and is an absolute dufus who causes mass disruption in all the companies he works for?cantersaddick said:
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-engineer-quit-slam-elon-musk-leadership-linkedin-post-2025-9cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/11/10/teslas-engineering-exodus-comes-amid-shift-from-core-ev-mission/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-engineer-accuses-elon-musk-004000611.html
https://futurism.com/tesla-engineer-roasts-elon-musk
https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-autopilot-engineers-radar-removal/
https://medium.com/predict/musk-overruled-tesla-engineers-and-now-they-are-in-serious-trouble-2e37269e387a
There are literally thousands of accounts like these that say engineers spent the whole time trying to find ways around musks "decisions" or "developments" or directly ignored his ideas when he meddled in engineering. He's certainly used his whole propaganda machine and influence in government and the media to give the impression of his engineering "genius". The reality is a long long way away from that.
Both tesla and spaceX are famously structured internally specifically to handle Musk and his ideas, they have a team dedicated to listening to him then basically doing the minimum viable thing to make him think his ideas have been implemented. When management has such an adversarial relationship with the CEO, it's hard to see what contributions Ellen could have made to the products directly. As I said above he has was for a while a valuable viral marketing tool - that that time has long since passed.
The bootlicking obsession some people have with this fantasy version of the man was weird 10 years ago. Its just creepy as fuck now.
I think we all understand he isn't on the ground with a pencil and ruler designing the Falcon rockets, but he clearly does have a vision of how he thinks space travel / cars should work, and to date has been effective in delivering changes in those industries.
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What, because the mods can't stand almost everyone vehemently agreeing? I know there are loads of people who disagree but they're also not going to stick their heads over the parapet because they know their position is ugly as sin, they just like how Musk winds up the libcucksCroydon said:I give this one til the end of the day, max2 -
Musk is a clever man. He’s become the most ridiculously rich man on the planet and possibly the most influential non politician in the world. He has something. Those though don’t shield the fact that he has some very nasty and dangerous views and has a platform to promote them. He’s entitled to his obnoxious views but it should end in him being able to spread his bile and significant disinformation and lies through buying Twitter. He totally ignores requests to tone down his platform and actively encourages the spread of hatred and lies. He’s probably the third most dangerous man on the planet behind Trump and Putin. Hope his Space X exploits allow him to be the first man on Mars. Preferably tomorrow5
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Don't try and pretend you point is just playing devils advocate (literally in this case). You havent presented any evidence that he played any part in those things othere than the incredibly naieve "he owns it so he did it". Its like claiming that as I own shares in Santander I personally introduced the 123 acount or signed off someones mortgage.cafcnick1992 said:
Trying to offer balance to the discussion isn't bootlicking. I'm not asking you to like or respect the man, but to claim he isn't a visionary takes some serious going when he has revolutionised the electric car industry, and currently oversees a company making re-usable rockets as a means of going to mars.cantersaddick said:
Again no one has said that but nice try with the slippery slope fallacy. He clearly has some strengths including leveraging influence, rasing finance from governments and investors for projects that would never get funding without him fronting them and for a while he was very effective at garnering public support. He also effectively uses his propaganda machine. I'm sure he has other skills too. But engineer, visonary or genius he is not.cafcnick1992 said:
So just to clarify; the world's first trillionaire has no positive attributes when it comes to business, and is an absolute dufus who causes mass disruption in all the companies he works for?cantersaddick said:
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-engineer-quit-slam-elon-musk-leadership-linkedin-post-2025-9cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/11/10/teslas-engineering-exodus-comes-amid-shift-from-core-ev-mission/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-engineer-accuses-elon-musk-004000611.html
https://futurism.com/tesla-engineer-roasts-elon-musk
https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-autopilot-engineers-radar-removal/
https://medium.com/predict/musk-overruled-tesla-engineers-and-now-they-are-in-serious-trouble-2e37269e387a
There are literally thousands of accounts like these that say engineers spent the whole time trying to find ways around musks "decisions" or "developments" or directly ignored his ideas when he meddled in engineering. He's certainly used his whole propaganda machine and influence in government and the media to give the impression of his engineering "genius". The reality is a long long way away from that.
Both tesla and spaceX are famously structured internally specifically to handle Musk and his ideas, they have a team dedicated to listening to him then basically doing the minimum viable thing to make him think his ideas have been implemented. When management has such an adversarial relationship with the CEO, it's hard to see what contributions Ellen could have made to the products directly. As I said above he has was for a while a valuable viral marketing tool - that that time has long since passed.
The bootlicking obsession some people have with this fantasy version of the man was weird 10 years ago. Its just creepy as fuck now.
I think we all understand he isn't on the ground with a pencil and ruler designing the Falcon rockets, but he clearly does have a vision of how he thinks space travel / cars should work, and to date has been effective in delivering changes in those industries.
As presented above the claim that he personally revolutionised the electric car industry is quentionable at best. Its the same with SpaceX. Its not like he came up with the idea of reusable rockets, they've been discussed, studied, designed and planned for 40 odd years before he had anything to do with a space company. What he did that was different to others was that he is the only one who managed to persuade governments and a small number of investors to put the money into it to try and turn the concept into reality. Even that is a failure given they are a decade behind his own "space travel" timeline and hence the need for this IPO scam to raise the cash to carry on trying as it got to the point where SpaceX was struggling to access any further borrowing.
So again, not an engineer, visionary or genius. The one way you could argue he was something close to genius was how for a while he had the ability to leverage his influence to raise capital to fund projects others couldnt get off the ground. Whether from governments, investors or financial institutions. Very successful as a financier. For a while. but this IPO prooves he has milked that as far as he can too.
Again with the slippery slope fallacy - no one ever said he was on the ground with a pencil and a ruler.0 -
He's part of dangerous mini mafia, the PayPal pals who are gradually taking over the American economy1
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Hes more powerful than pretty much every politician in the west. His influence over governments is the entire problem. The existance of people this rich is not compatable with democracy.ShootersHillGuru said:Musk is a clever man. He’s become the most ridiculously rich man on the planet and possibly the most influential non politician in the world. He has something. Those though don’t shield the fact that he has some very nasty and dangerous views and has a platform to promote them. He’s entitled to his obnoxious views but it should end in him being able to spread his bile and significant disinformation and lies through buying Twitter. He totally ignores requests to tone down his platform and actively encourages the spread of hatred and lies. He’s probably the third most dangerous man on the planet behind Trump and Putin. Hope his Space X exploits allow him to be the first man on Mars. Preferably tomorrow1 -
His influence on the electric car industry isn't "questionable at best". He took over Tesla in 2004, at which point there was no factory and no prototypes. By 2012 he was shipping electric cars with 17" touchscreens that were at least 5 years ahead of anything else out there. If Elon Musk had views similar to your own, you would accept that this was a success and that he deserves credit.cantersaddick said:
Don't try and pretend you point is just playing devils advocate (literally in this case). You havent presented any evidence that he played any part in those things othere than the incredibly naieve "he owns it so he did it". Its like claiming that as I own shares in Santander I personally introduced the 123 acount or signed off someones mortgage.cafcnick1992 said:
Trying to offer balance to the discussion isn't bootlicking. I'm not asking you to like or respect the man, but to claim he isn't a visionary takes some serious going when he has revolutionised the electric car industry, and currently oversees a company making re-usable rockets as a means of going to mars.cantersaddick said:
Again no one has said that but nice try with the slippery slope fallacy. He clearly has some strengths including leveraging influence, rasing finance from governments and investors for projects that would never get funding without him fronting them and for a while he was very effective at garnering public support. He also effectively uses his propaganda machine. I'm sure he has other skills too. But engineer, visonary or genius he is not.cafcnick1992 said:
So just to clarify; the world's first trillionaire has no positive attributes when it comes to business, and is an absolute dufus who causes mass disruption in all the companies he works for?cantersaddick said:
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-engineer-quit-slam-elon-musk-leadership-linkedin-post-2025-9cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/11/10/teslas-engineering-exodus-comes-amid-shift-from-core-ev-mission/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-engineer-accuses-elon-musk-004000611.html
https://futurism.com/tesla-engineer-roasts-elon-musk
https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-autopilot-engineers-radar-removal/
https://medium.com/predict/musk-overruled-tesla-engineers-and-now-they-are-in-serious-trouble-2e37269e387a
There are literally thousands of accounts like these that say engineers spent the whole time trying to find ways around musks "decisions" or "developments" or directly ignored his ideas when he meddled in engineering. He's certainly used his whole propaganda machine and influence in government and the media to give the impression of his engineering "genius". The reality is a long long way away from that.
Both tesla and spaceX are famously structured internally specifically to handle Musk and his ideas, they have a team dedicated to listening to him then basically doing the minimum viable thing to make him think his ideas have been implemented. When management has such an adversarial relationship with the CEO, it's hard to see what contributions Ellen could have made to the products directly. As I said above he has was for a while a valuable viral marketing tool - that that time has long since passed.
The bootlicking obsession some people have with this fantasy version of the man was weird 10 years ago. Its just creepy as fuck now.
I think we all understand he isn't on the ground with a pencil and ruler designing the Falcon rockets, but he clearly does have a vision of how he thinks space travel / cars should work, and to date has been effective in delivering changes in those industries.
As presented above the claim that he personally revolutionised the electric car industry is quentionable at best. Its the same with SpaceX. Its not like he came up with the idea of reusable rockets, they've been discussed, studied, designed and planned for 40 odd years before he had anything to do with a space company. What he did that was different to others was that he is the only one who managed to persuade governments and a small number of investors to put the money into it to try and turn the concept into reality. Even that is a failure given they are a decade behind his own "space travel" timeline and hence the need for this IPO scam to raise the cash to carry on trying as it got to the point where SpaceX was struggling to access any further borrowing.
So again, not an engineer, visionary or genius. The one way you could argue he was something close to genius was how for a while he had the ability to leverage his influence to raise capital to fund projects others couldnt get off the ground. Whether from governments, investors or financial institutions. Very successful as a financier. For a while. but this IPO prooves he has milked that as far as he can too.
Again with the slippery slope fallacy - no one ever said he was on the ground with a pencil and a ruler.
I cannot provide you with the obviously unobtainable evidence that he personally came up with the silver bullet that made it all possible, in the same way that i cannot give you evidence that Steve Jobs knows anything about the iPod, or that Jeff Bezos knows anything about shipping parcels.
He has been in charge during Tesla's incredible rise and therefore deserves credit, in the same way that you would rightfully criticise him if Tesla went under.0 -
Nothing to do with my views on him. I've said repeatedly that he deserves credit for getting in place the finance for projects that would not be funded in other circumstances. But those proposals and ideas existed long before he got involved. To give him any form of credit for the ideas themselves (which was the original point) is laughably naive.cafcnick1992 said:
His influence on the electric car industry isn't "questionable at best". He took over Tesla in 2004, at which point there was no factory and no prototypes. By 2012 he was shipping electric cars with 17" touchscreens that were at least 5 years ahead of anything else out there. If Elon Musk had views similar to your own, you would accept that this was a success and that he deserves credit.cantersaddick said:
Don't try and pretend you point is just playing devils advocate (literally in this case). You havent presented any evidence that he played any part in those things othere than the incredibly naieve "he owns it so he did it". Its like claiming that as I own shares in Santander I personally introduced the 123 acount or signed off someones mortgage.cafcnick1992 said:
Trying to offer balance to the discussion isn't bootlicking. I'm not asking you to like or respect the man, but to claim he isn't a visionary takes some serious going when he has revolutionised the electric car industry, and currently oversees a company making re-usable rockets as a means of going to mars.cantersaddick said:
Again no one has said that but nice try with the slippery slope fallacy. He clearly has some strengths including leveraging influence, rasing finance from governments and investors for projects that would never get funding without him fronting them and for a while he was very effective at garnering public support. He also effectively uses his propaganda machine. I'm sure he has other skills too. But engineer, visonary or genius he is not.cafcnick1992 said:
So just to clarify; the world's first trillionaire has no positive attributes when it comes to business, and is an absolute dufus who causes mass disruption in all the companies he works for?cantersaddick said:
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-engineer-quit-slam-elon-musk-leadership-linkedin-post-2025-9cafcnick1992 said:
Right and Steve Jobs was just sat in the Apple cafeteria when an engineer walked in and presented him with the new iPhone.cantersaddick said:
Ignoring the idiotic culture war langauge. Thats not what he said though. Clearly Musk using his influence to extract massive subsidies from governments is obviously part of the success "story". But did he "revolutionise the EV industry" as was claimed. Well he didnt found Tesla, he didnt fund the development (that was a few investors and large government sibsidies) nor was he involved in any engineering decisions. Musk used his profile to gain attention and popularity for Tesla and ultimately that will have helped success of Tesla. But did he personally revolutionise the EV industry? Its at best questionable.cafcnick1992 said:
I do think it takes a serious dosage of Musk Derangement Syndrome to pretend that Musk had nothing to do with the success of Tesla.Leroy Ambrose said:
Musk did absolutely nothing related to that except con the US government of the day into giving Tesla massive subsidies in order to make it economically viable. The US taxpayer made Tesla a success, not Musk.cafcnick1992 said:
He did revolutionise the electric car industry. Electric cars would not be as good as they are today without Tesla having set the standard.The Red Robin said:Yet he chooses to be a c*nt and not do anything of any social value with it. I hope he fucks off to Mars and takes his helmet off.
To claim that Elon Musk was not involved in any of the engineering decisions is just silly
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2025/11/10/teslas-engineering-exodus-comes-amid-shift-from-core-ev-mission/
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-engineer-accuses-elon-musk-004000611.html
https://futurism.com/tesla-engineer-roasts-elon-musk
https://insideevs.com/news/658439/elon-musk-overruled-tesla-autopilot-engineers-radar-removal/
https://medium.com/predict/musk-overruled-tesla-engineers-and-now-they-are-in-serious-trouble-2e37269e387a
There are literally thousands of accounts like these that say engineers spent the whole time trying to find ways around musks "decisions" or "developments" or directly ignored his ideas when he meddled in engineering. He's certainly used his whole propaganda machine and influence in government and the media to give the impression of his engineering "genius". The reality is a long long way away from that.
Both tesla and spaceX are famously structured internally specifically to handle Musk and his ideas, they have a team dedicated to listening to him then basically doing the minimum viable thing to make him think his ideas have been implemented. When management has such an adversarial relationship with the CEO, it's hard to see what contributions Ellen could have made to the products directly. As I said above he has was for a while a valuable viral marketing tool - that that time has long since passed.
The bootlicking obsession some people have with this fantasy version of the man was weird 10 years ago. Its just creepy as fuck now.
I think we all understand he isn't on the ground with a pencil and ruler designing the Falcon rockets, but he clearly does have a vision of how he thinks space travel / cars should work, and to date has been effective in delivering changes in those industries.
As presented above the claim that he personally revolutionised the electric car industry is quentionable at best. Its the same with SpaceX. Its not like he came up with the idea of reusable rockets, they've been discussed, studied, designed and planned for 40 odd years before he had anything to do with a space company. What he did that was different to others was that he is the only one who managed to persuade governments and a small number of investors to put the money into it to try and turn the concept into reality. Even that is a failure given they are a decade behind his own "space travel" timeline and hence the need for this IPO scam to raise the cash to carry on trying as it got to the point where SpaceX was struggling to access any further borrowing.
So again, not an engineer, visionary or genius. The one way you could argue he was something close to genius was how for a while he had the ability to leverage his influence to raise capital to fund projects others couldnt get off the ground. Whether from governments, investors or financial institutions. Very successful as a financier. For a while. but this IPO prooves he has milked that as far as he can too.
Again with the slippery slope fallacy - no one ever said he was on the ground with a pencil and a ruler.
I cannot provide you with the obviously unobtainable evidence that he personally came up with the silver bullet that made it all possible, in the same way that i cannot give you evidence that Steve Jobs knows anything about the iPod, or that Jeff Bezos knows anything about shipping parcels.
He has been in charge during Tesla's incredible rise and therefore deserves credit, in the same way that you would rightfully criticise him if Tesla went under.
You say you cant possibly provide evidence that he did the things you claim but I have provided evidence and there are literally thousands of first hand accounts in the public of people who worked for him saying he didn't. And there is the evidence that those concepts existed long before his companies started. What is it they say about people who refuse to change their minds in the face of the evidence?0 -
Sounds like he's a nigel.AddicksAddict said:
You forgot to mention they are all Musk’s ancestors.jose said:Scottish inventor Robert Anderson created the first crude electric powered vehicle in the 1830’s.
In 1881 French engineer Gustav Trouvé demonstrated a working three wheeled electric vehicle at the International Exposition of Electricity in Paris.
English inventor Thomas Parker built the first fully electric production car in Wolverhampton in 1884 which he drove daily to work.
In 1888 German Engineer Andreas Flocken built the first four wheeled electric wagon.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZEH1NxbyCk
