I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

AberystwythAddick · September 21

WillmoreTheRed said:

AberystwythAddick said:

WillmoreTheRed said:

Really hope Jones now see's we need creativity as well as being sound in defense - we can be good all we want at defending but it's unrealistic to expect them to defend for their lives continously without any outlet.

I hope he fights to sign 2/3 in Jan but as always with Charlton that makes to much sense and we will probably sign 3 more CDMs.

We won’t be signing anyone until we can offload players.

You’d probably be looking at Knibbs, Apter and maybe Carey?

Might as well shift Knibbs and Apter as he has seemingly made his mind up on them, not sure about Carey he hasn't quite faced the full Jones shut out yet.

It’s not that simple

Making_all_the_noise · September 21

I was speaking to a former Luton player over the weekend who was a regular pick under NJ. He said the dressing room were desperate for him to leave and pretty much celebrated when he left. They had a problem with the style of play he was asking of them, how he set the team up but even more so, how he threw players under the bus and never accepted his own responsibility for results not going his way. Unsurprisingly he said NJ was considered a nutter by most the players.

He’s done a good job for the club but I’m concerned we have ridden our luck along the way and there’s a ceiling to where he can take us. We have some reasonable enough players in our squad but the way he’s setting us up tactically will get us relegated. The press is wrong, the gaps between the players is wrong, the response to opposition press is wrong. We keep repeating the same tactics and natural inclination of the fans is to blame individual player performance. I’m not sure there are any players who could perform well in the system we’re currently attempting.

NabySarr · September 21

Making_all_the_noise said:

I was speaking to a former Luton player over the weekend who was a regular pick under NJ. He said the dressing room were desperate for him to leave and pretty much celebrated when he left. They had a problem with the style of play he was asking of them, how he set the team up but even more so, how he threw players under the bus and never accepted his own responsibility for results not going his way. Unsurprisingly he said NJ was considered a nutter by most the players.

He’s done a good job for the club but I’m concerned we have ridden our luck along the way and there’s a ceiling to where he can take us. We have some reasonable enough players in our squad but the way he’s setting us up tactically will get us relegated. The press is wrong, the gaps between the players is wrong, the response to opposition press is wrong. We keep repeating the same tactics and natural inclination of the fans is to blame individual player performance. I’m not sure there are any players who could perform well in the system we’re currently attempting.

Well he got Luton to the play offs so we are a long way off from a Nathan Jones ceiling currently. He’s still 100% the best manager for us based on where we are now

Making_all_the_noise · September 21

The quality of play(ers) and tactics have seemingly moved on a long way from NJ’s Luton days.

I think he deserves time. He clearly doesn’t deserve the axe but I think most fans would watch our football over the past couple of years and in spite of the promotion and just about staying up, have a few doubts as to how sustainable this type of football is. Also have some doubts that NJ has the ability to switch up our style.

Definitely deserves a fair bit more time but something tactical has to change quite drastically.

Leuth · September 21

I must admit, part of my thinking this whole time has been about how NJ demands so much physically from his players, and so many end up broken. I know this isn't exactly uncommon among clubs nowadays with physical demands being so high across the board, but throw in his tendency to freeze out the unwanted after only a few games and I can well believe what's been posted there. If it falls apart this season, and it feels like it wouldn't take much, I can actually see a case for firing him, if there's a replacement who might have a better chance of saving us. As it is, there isn't, to be clear, but disaster isn't impossible with these circumstances. Charlton fans tend to be 'better the devil you know' sorts so I'd imagine he'll get a longer rope with the fans than most clubs will allow. He may need it

NabySarr · September 21

Making_all_the_noise said:

The quality of play(ers) and tactics have seemingly moved on a long way from NJ’s Luton days.

I think he deserves time. He clearly doesn’t deserve the axe but I think most fans would watch our football over the past couple of years and in spite of the promotion and just about staying up, have a few doubts as to how sustainable this type of football is. Also have some doubts that NJ has the ability to switch up our style.

Definitely deserves a fair bit more time but something tactical has to change quite drastically.

Despite the fact he’s done it before? Including with us in our promotion season the football we were playing in the second half of the season was very different to the start and much better

NabySarr · September 21

Quite silly how much chat there is around Jones already. We are 9th in the league and have only lost 2 games.

Even if we were 18th and had only won 2 games it would be silly to discuss it and most neutral observers would think we were absolutely mental to think about sacking him

DOUCHER · September 21

NabySarr said:

fenaddick said:

I do think it would be an effective use of funds to hire a coach who is good at coaching attacking patterns of play. We have quite a small coaching staff really and it shows

I said this in the summer. I’m assuming Hylton is responsible for this along with set pieces. Jones strikes me as someone who will only bring in someone he knows and trusts

I also doubt we focused much on it over the summer. Changing from 3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 was a big risk and I’m pretty certain we would have spent most of the time drilling the defensive side of it because that is always going to be more important for us in the championship on our budget. Hopefully now we can put some more work into in possession over the break and the rest of the season

It's no coincidence that our 2 early signings (just in time for our pre-season trip abroad) were both defenders. As has been said, Jones, Fleming and Chappel were all defenders and Hylton, a target man. Okay, West Ham's manager is a keeper so its not a direct equation but where is our attacking flair, our midfield maestro, our bit of magic? NJ has done a great job to date but changing from 532 to 4231 and signing Grant, is not what i'd call an evolution however its dressed up. We still have no creativity other than TC. (as has been the case for 3 years).

eastterrace6168 · September 21

AberystwythAddick said:

The five without a win is obviously not great. It’s compounded by our October fixtures (below). Now knowing us we will get a result in one or two of these games, but on the face of it, it could be a fairly sparse month.

If we say pick up 4 points from the available 15 in October, how would people be feeling.

Roll on 31st October, be nice to get back to a bloody 3.00pm Saturday kick off...🙄

Leuth · September 21

eastterrace6168 said:

AberystwythAddick said:

The five without a win is obviously not great. It’s compounded by our October fixtures (below). Now knowing us we will get a result in one or two of these games, but on the face of it, it could be a fairly sparse month.

If we say pick up 4 points from the available 15 in October, how would people be feeling.

Roll on 31st October, be nice to get back to a bloody 3.00pm Saturday kick off...🙄

Get drubbed 0-4 then leave the stadium and get badgered for candy by a million small children. It's gonna be a spooky one gang

Leuth · September 21

Oh it's an away thank god

NabySarr · September 21

DOUCHER said:

NabySarr said:

fenaddick said:

I do think it would be an effective use of funds to hire a coach who is good at coaching attacking patterns of play. We have quite a small coaching staff really and it shows

I said this in the summer. I’m assuming Hylton is responsible for this along with set pieces. Jones strikes me as someone who will only bring in someone he knows and trusts

I also doubt we focused much on it over the summer. Changing from 3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 was a big risk and I’m pretty certain we would have spent most of the time drilling the defensive side of it because that is always going to be more important for us in the championship on our budget. Hopefully now we can put some more work into in possession over the break and the rest of the season

It's no coincidence that our 2 early signings (just in time for our pre-season trip abroad) were both defenders. As has been said, Jones, Fleming and Chappel were all defenders and Hylton, a target man. Okay, West Ham's manager is a keeper so it’s not a direct equation but where is our attacking flair, our midfield maestro, our bit of magic? NJ has done a great job to date but changing from 532 to 4231 and signing Grant, is not what i'd call an evolution however it’s dressed up. We still have no creativity other than TC. (as has been the case for 3 years).

I don’t think the problem is Jones though. He’s shown in the past with good players he is able to coach teams that create chances and score goals. In the second half of 2024/25 we scored the second most goals in league 1 while winning a lot of games and getting promoted. He won a promotion at Luton with the highest possession and goals scored in the league. What he needs is better players, no manager would get this group playing flowing football, creating chances and scoring goals at championship level. They just aren’t good enough

The problem is he is trying to evolve the team and style without the budget to sign good enough players to do it. If he was properly backed and we saw no improvement then criticism would be a lot fairer, he’s not been backed though so any improvement he does achieve would be an incredible success

AberystwythAddick · September 21

NabySarr said:

Quite silly how much chat there is around Jones already. We are 9th in the league and have only lost 2 games.

Even if we were 18th and had only won 2 games it would be silly to discuss it and most neutral observers would think we were absolutely mental to think about sacking him

I mean it is a forum and this is an important discussion topic which whether you like it or not people will have.

No one is talking about him being sacked right now, at least not on here.

It’s not a bad thing or all doom and gloom to have a thread that lets people discuss their thoughts on the subject.

AberystwythAddick · September 21

Leuth said:

Oh it's an away thank god

Unfortunately, it’s in Middlesbrough

Rothko · September 21

Christ, going to give this site a miss for three weeks if we've gone this insane in 3 days

DOUCHER · September 21

NabySarr said:

DOUCHER said:

NabySarr said:

fenaddick said:

I do think it would be an effective use of funds to hire a coach who is good at coaching attacking patterns of play. We have quite a small coaching staff really and it shows

I said this in the summer. I’m assuming Hylton is responsible for this along with set pieces. Jones strikes me as someone who will only bring in someone he knows and trusts

I also doubt we focused much on it over the summer. Changing from 3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 was a big risk and I’m pretty certain we would have spent most of the time drilling the defensive side of it because that is always going to be more important for us in the championship on our budget. Hopefully now we can put some more work into in possession over the break and the rest of the season

It's no coincidence that our 2 early signings (just in time for our pre-season trip abroad) were both defenders. As has been said, Jones, Fleming and Chappel were all defenders and Hylton, a target man. Okay, West Ham's manager is a keeper so it’s not a direct equation but where is our attacking flair, our midfield maestro, our bit of magic? NJ has done a great job to date but changing from 532 to 4231 and signing Grant, is not what i'd call an evolution however it’s dressed up. We still have no creativity other than TC. (as has been the case for 3 years).

I don’t think the problem is Jones though. He’s shown in the past with good players he is able to coach teams that create chances and score goals. In the second half of 2024/25 we scored the second most goals in league 1 while winning a lot of games and getting promoted. He won a promotion at Luton with the highest possession and goals scored in the league. What he needs is better players, no manager would get this group playing flowing football, creating chances and scoring goals at championship level. They just aren’t good enough

The problem is he is trying to evolve the team and style without the budget to sign good enough players to do it. If he was properly backed and we saw no improvement then criticism would be a lot fairer, he’s not been backed though so any improvement he does achieve would be an incredible success

Have Cardiff got a significantly bigger budget? Maybe they have, i don't know. How much was Moylan?

Leuth · September 21

NabySarr said:

DOUCHER said:

NabySarr said:

fenaddick said:

I do think it would be an effective use of funds to hire a coach who is good at coaching attacking patterns of play. We have quite a small coaching staff really and it shows

I said this in the summer. I’m assuming Hylton is responsible for this along with set pieces. Jones strikes me as someone who will only bring in someone he knows and trusts

I also doubt we focused much on it over the summer. Changing from 3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 was a big risk and I’m pretty certain we would have spent most of the time drilling the defensive side of it because that is always going to be more important for us in the championship on our budget. Hopefully now we can put some more work into in possession over the break and the rest of the season

It's no coincidence that our 2 early signings (just in time for our pre-season trip abroad) were both defenders. As has been said, Jones, Fleming and Chappel were all defenders and Hylton, a target man. Okay, West Ham's manager is a keeper so it’s not a direct equation but where is our attacking flair, our midfield maestro, our bit of magic? NJ has done a great job to date but changing from 532 to 4231 and signing Grant, is not what i'd call an evolution however it’s dressed up. We still have no creativity other than TC. (as has been the case for 3 years).

I don’t think the problem is Jones though. He’s shown in the past with good players he is able to coach teams that create chances and score goals. In the second half of 2024/25 we scored the second most goals in league 1 while winning a lot of games and getting promoted. He won a promotion at Luton with the highest possession and goals scored in the league. What he needs is better players, no manager would get this group playing flowing football, creating chances and scoring goals at championship level. They just aren’t good enough

The problem is he is trying to evolve the team and style without the budget to sign good enough players to do it. If he was properly backed and we saw no improvement then criticism would be a lot fairer, he’s not been backed though so any improvement he does achieve would be an incredible success

Okay, now I want Jones fired so you can be proven wrong

MarcusH26 · September 21

DOUCHER said:

NabySarr said:

DOUCHER said:

NabySarr said:

fenaddick said:

I do think it would be an effective use of funds to hire a coach who is good at coaching attacking patterns of play. We have quite a small coaching staff really and it shows

I said this in the summer. I’m assuming Hylton is responsible for this along with set pieces. Jones strikes me as someone who will only bring in someone he knows and trusts

I also doubt we focused much on it over the summer. Changing from 3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 was a big risk and I’m pretty certain we would have spent most of the time drilling the defensive side of it because that is always going to be more important for us in the championship on our budget. Hopefully now we can put some more work into in possession over the break and the rest of the season

It's no coincidence that our 2 early signings (just in time for our pre-season trip abroad) were both defenders. As has been said, Jones, Fleming and Chappel were all defenders and Hylton, a target man. Okay, West Ham's manager is a keeper so it’s not a direct equation but where is our attacking flair, our midfield maestro, our bit of magic? NJ has done a great job to date but changing from 532 to 4231 and signing Grant, is not what i'd call an evolution however it’s dressed up. We still have no creativity other than TC. (as has been the case for 3 years).

I don’t think the problem is Jones though. He’s shown in the past with good players he is able to coach teams that create chances and score goals. In the second half of 2024/25 we scored the second most goals in league 1 while winning a lot of games and getting promoted. He won a promotion at Luton with the highest possession and goals scored in the league. What he needs is better players, no manager would get this group playing flowing football, creating chances and scoring goals at championship level. They just aren’t good enough

The problem is he is trying to evolve the team and style without the budget to sign good enough players to do it. If he was properly backed and we saw no improvement then criticism would be a lot fairer, he’s not been backed though so any improvement he does achieve would be an incredible success

Have Cardiff got a significantly bigger budget? Maybe they have, i don't know. How much was Moylan?

Moylan was £3m rising to £5m with add-ons so well within our range.

Leuth · September 21

We're lacking in the RW and AM departments, sure, but it isn't like we have nobody who can play there - we just currently have nobody who's performing there in this setup. We have Championship quality throughout the rest of the side. Claiming the whole squad isn't good enough is absolutely ludicrous and makes me question why you're even bothering watching us this season

DOUCHER · September 21

I like NJ and think he has been a saviour for us but i'm also quite sure that he knows what a good defender is all about but his record of signing attacking talent is questionable. Matty Godden, no brainer but beyond that? Cardiff took Lincolns best (League 1) player in Moylan. We took Apter, Olafe, Knibbs (proven flops atm and lets not mention Ahadme) and Kelman (jury out atm). That's not a pile on but its definitely something that needs addressing. It's not something that should be ignored.

fenaddick · September 21

MarcusH26 said:

DOUCHER said:

NabySarr said:

DOUCHER said:

NabySarr said:

fenaddick said:

I do think it would be an effective use of funds to hire a coach who is good at coaching attacking patterns of play. We have quite a small coaching staff really and it shows

I said this in the summer. I’m assuming Hylton is responsible for this along with set pieces. Jones strikes me as someone who will only bring in someone he knows and trusts

I also doubt we focused much on it over the summer. Changing from 3-5-2 to 4-2-3-1 was a big risk and I’m pretty certain we would have spent most of the time drilling the defensive side of it because that is always going to be more important for us in the championship on our budget. Hopefully now we can put some more work into in possession over the break and the rest of the season

It's no coincidence that our 2 early signings (just in time for our pre-season trip abroad) were both defenders. As has been said, Jones, Fleming and Chappel were all defenders and Hylton, a target man. Okay, West Ham's manager is a keeper so it’s not a direct equation but where is our attacking flair, our midfield maestro, our bit of magic? NJ has done a great job to date but changing from 532 to 4231 and signing Grant, is not what i'd call an evolution however it’s dressed up. We still have no creativity other than TC. (as has been the case for 3 years).

I don’t think the problem is Jones though. He’s shown in the past with good players he is able to coach teams that create chances and score goals. In the second half of 2024/25 we scored the second most goals in league 1 while winning a lot of games and getting promoted. He won a promotion at Luton with the highest possession and goals scored in the league. What he needs is better players, no manager would get this group playing flowing football, creating chances and scoring goals at championship level. They just aren’t good enough

The problem is he is trying to evolve the team and style without the budget to sign good enough players to do it. If he was properly backed and we saw no improvement then criticism would be a lot fairer, he’s not been backed though so any improvement he does achieve would be an incredible success

Have Cardiff got a significantly bigger budget? Maybe they have, i don't know. How much was Moylan?

Moylan was £3m rising to £5m with add-ons so well within our range.

That is the very top of our range, the only player we've spent that much on is Kelman isn't it? And we didn't get close to actually spending that this summer, even if it's what the rumoured JRS fee was

NabySarr · September 21

Leuth said:

We're lacking in the RW and AM departments, sure, but it isn't like we have nobody who can play there - we just currently have nobody who's performing there in this setup. We have Championship quality throughout the rest of the side. Claiming the whole squad isn't good enough is absolutely ludicrous and makes me question why you're even bothering watching us this season

The squad isn’t good enough to play the kind of football people are talking about. It’s a squad built on one of the lowest wage budgets in the league so it’s going to be of lower quality than other teams. That is just an obvious point to make, not sure how that’s ludicrous?

Chunes · September 21

It's true that Cardiff haven't spent that much money. But other than last season, they've enjoyed 21 consecutive seasons in the Champ and two of those were in the Prem. They've had plenty of time to build a good squad at this level, and they got 91 points in League One last year.

Ed - Also, last time they were in the Champ, the BBC reported they had a wage bill in the top 1/3rd of the league.

NabySarr · September 21

Chunes said:

It's true that Cardiff haven't spent that much money. But other than last season, they've enjoyed 21 consecutive seasons in the Champ and two of those were in the Prem. They've had plenty of time to build a good squad at this level, and they got 91 points in League One last year.

Look at their eleven on Saturday and every player was with them when they were last in the championship, other than 2 that were playing top flight footballer abroad, Bielik who was in the championship, and Moylan from league 1.

Also my whole point is the budget we require to evolve our style. Cardiff are already playing a style of football they are happy with so for them there is no big evolution required, if anything they need to go the other way and become a bit more pragmatic. They absolutely bossed us on Saturday but I’d still be surprised if they finish above us and if they do it won’t be by much

Chunes · September 21

NabySarr said:

Chunes said:

It's true that Cardiff haven't spent that much money. But other than last season, they've enjoyed 21 consecutive seasons in the Champ and two of those were in the Prem. They've had plenty of time to build a good squad at this level, and they got 91 points in League One last year.

Look at their eleven on Saturday and every player was with them when they were last in the championship, other than 2 that were playing top flight footballer abroad, Bielik who was in the championship, and Moylan from league 1.

Also my whole point is the budget we require to evolve our style. Cardiff are already playing a style of football they are happy with so for them there is no big evolution required, if anything they need to go the other way and become a bit more pragmatic. They absolutely bossed us on Saturday but I’d still be surprised if they finish above us and if they do it won’t be by much

Yeah. Nathan has consistently over-performed his budget. How much more do we want... Sexy football with a bottom five budget squad? We are dreaming.

NabySarr · September 21

@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?

To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season

NabySarr · September 21

Chunes said:

NabySarr said:

Chunes said:

It's true that Cardiff haven't spent that much money. But other than last season, they've enjoyed 21 consecutive seasons in the Champ and two of those were in the Prem. They've had plenty of time to build a good squad at this level, and they got 91 points in League One last year.

Look at their eleven on Saturday and every player was with them when they were last in the championship, other than 2 that were playing top flight footballer abroad, Bielik who was in the championship, and Moylan from league 1.

Also my whole point is the budget we require to evolve our style. Cardiff are already playing a style of football they are happy with so for them there is no big evolution required, if anything they need to go the other way and become a bit more pragmatic. They absolutely bossed us on Saturday but I’d still be surprised if they finish above us and if they do it won’t be by much

Yeah. Nathan has consistently over-performed his budget. How much more do we want... Sexy football with a bottom five budget squad? We are dreaming.

Exactly, I think people have wildly unrealistic expectations. Jones has talked about evolution a lot but surely no one was expecting to see significant changes in 2 months? Especially when we clearly missed out on a key piece of the attacking puzzle.

Unless you can go out and buy much better players you aren’t going to go from
what we were last season, to anything different, in 2 months. It’s going to be a long process but unfortunately football fans have about 3 games worth of patience these days

Leuth · September 21

NabySarr said:

@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?

To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season

It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level. Go through our first team individually and the answer is yes. Collectively we often end up looking absolutely dire, with players unsure what to do, where to move and so on. And our fans' toxic relationship with players continues - it doesn't take much for us to turn on them, call them non-league rubbish.

Conor McGrandles is doing very nicely indeed in the Championship this season. One of our rejects. When we were in League One.

Chunes · September 21

Leuth said:

NabySarr said:

@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?

To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season

It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.

Aren't these the same thing?

Leuth · September 21

Chunes said:

Leuth said:

NabySarr said:

@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?

To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season

It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.

Aren't these the same thing?

No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.

In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.

I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

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