[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]problem is abject failure isn't an option. Only promotion is.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Abject failure means the death of this clu
Why?
There is another 20 teams who won't be promoted from this division and 24 teams in league two, are they all going to fold too?
Why FFS is it gonna mean the death of our club?
i think they're referring to murrays comments about how important promotion is to our future
not all the other clubs have as much debt as us or have outgoings as big as us
i am sitting on the fence for parky until christmas cos i like the players he has brought in (even the not so popular ones)
we all know he should never have been given the job in the first place now , although it took hindsight for some to wake up to that fact , our best chance of championship football was when we were in the league itself , not going for the fresh impetus push has consigned us to our current sorry position in english football
I dont agree with some of his selections this season, mainly Llera, but changing manager now would be absolutely, bloody stupid.
We have lost away to a top 3 side and a last minute arguable penalty at Exeter.
Saturdays game changed on one decision, Notts County we played rubbish and still won....
Talk about knee jerk.
It will be the same idiots who 'expect' us to win tomorrow night. I dont, MK are a decent side at this level so certainly hope for a hard fought win rather than expecting us to roll them over 5-1 like last season.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]problem is abject failure isn't an option. Only promotion is.
[cite]Posted By: Goonerhater[/cite]Abject failure means the death of this clu
Why?
There is another 20 teams who won't be promoted from this division and 24 teams in league two, are they all going to fold too?
Why FFS is it gonna mean the death of our club?
i think they're referring to murrays comments about how important promotion is to our future
not all the other clubs have as much debt as us or have outgoings as big as us
exactly. If we don't get promoted this season then things are only going to get worse as finances become even tighter. Let's not forget that RM has put in the 4m to cover this seasons wage bill. Without that we'd be losing money hand over fist. As it is income doesn't cover expenses even with wages excluded. He won't do it next year.
How many other clubs have fallen so far in such a short space of time as us ? within an economic depression-- with no overdarft--- with share holders stichedup----- with only one man at the helm throwing his last role of the dice-------with all other fans with wedge already hit on------with no star players to sell on.
Abject failure ? religation or a very low finish this year and yes it might very well be all over. The dreaded administartion ?please who will come in and put money in ? the guys that have already been burnt ? thats why it could be thee end.
"Chris Coleman - fresh from failing at Coventry, another ex-Palace personality would be a great choice as they always do well at Charlton;
Steve Tilson - just lead Southend to League 2 so perfect for us.
Penney/Blackwell - average.
What is it about these people that makes them so much better than Parkinson?"
How did Chris Coleman fail at Coventry? He might not have got them promoted but did he get them relegated, then fail to go back up, then look like doing even worse the next season a la Parkinson? Fair do's on the ex-Palace thing, but i was just offering possibilities.
Tilson failed in the end due to their financial problems. However does that make him a bad manager? You're also conveniently forgetting the 5 years before last season. He led Southend to 2 straight promotions in his time there, they also beat a full strength Man Utd in the cup. His record there:
Season 1 - promotion to league one
Season 2 - promotion to the championship
Season 3 - relegation
Season 4 - league one play offs
Season 5 - 8th in league one
Season 6 - relegated. But without the financial problems and having to sell Barnard in January they'd have stayed up.
I don't think that's a bad overall record for a club deemed much smaller than ours.
Dave Penney likewise had 2 successive promotions at Doncaster and they always played good passing football under his management.
Kevin Blackwell- in 3 seasons at Sheffield Utd he finished 9th, 3rd and 8th in the championship. How is that average?!
It is laughable how you dismiss him as average but are happy to put up with what we have!
It will not mean the death of our club.
It may mean watching cack football for another 4/5 years and maybe getting a lucky promotion through the playoffs
But certainly not mean the death of our club
As for other teams, Man city,Leeds Leicester,Forest
OK they got out this shite league before the recession bit, but come on the death of our club...Yor avin a larf
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]
the whole point though is that this isn't knee-jerk
No, the whole point is this was clearly labelled as a supportive thread yet has dominated again by people with the opposite view repeatedly regurgitating their points, over ten times in some instances.
We get the message guys, you've made it loud and clear. Not saying your stance is wrong or that you shouldn't post it, of course you should, but it seems that it is always those with a negative or critical view on things that seem to fill the need to repeat it more often than they need to.
i do not believe he is the right man nor did i ever believe it. I do believe that he needs to be supported right now but the death bell is ringing once he loses the fans, which he is very close to doing and by fans i mean a big majority, I still think right now it is a Minority that are not happy or satisied with him.
I am in the Very Unhappy with him camp as most should have worked out by now.
But it is not the fact we dont have the money to get rid that i dont want him to go just yet, to me the alternatives and consequences of getting the timing and the right person in place first far out way that issue.
I agree the talent is there.
If he fails to win Midweek i think that the pendulum of the fans will swing across to something needs to be done NOW ala norwich last year and there will be no return for him IMO
he is playing for his future game by game
[cite]Posted By: creepyaddick[/cite]It will not mean the death of our club.
It may mean watching cack football for another 4/5 years and maybe getting a lucky promotion through the playoffs
But certainly not mean the death of our club
As for other teams, Man city,Leeds Leicester,Forest
OK they got out this shite league before the recession bit, but come on the death of our club...Yor avin a larf
Wish I shared that confidence mate. RM has stated we are not viable and are loss making at this level and therefore no doubt any level below. Is RM really going to hang about for another 4/5 years losing his personal wealth? Add to that the inevitable drop in income from fleeting attendances I would say that whilst a pessimistic view it may not be an unrealistic one.
[cite]Posted By: creepyaddick[/cite]It will not mean the death of our club.
It may mean watching cack football for another 4/5 years and maybe getting a lucky promotion through the playoffs
But certainly not mean the death of our club
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Kevin Blackwell- in 3 seasons at Sheffield Utd he finished 9th, 3rd and 8th in the championship. How is that average?!
Could argue they should be in the play-offs at least every season.
He also didn't give Kyel Reid a chance, who according to some on here is a Championship winger.
As for Penney, Tilson etc, might do well here but they could just as easily be no better than Parky. If promotion is a requirement how long should a new manager get to settle?
We often wind ourselves up because we see the mistakes and problems of our own lot, and ignore the fact that everyone else has problems.
What do you suppose is the mood of Sheffield Wednesday fans right now.
We've heard here that the spanners at this time last season were slagging off both their manager and the boy who eventually scored the goals that got them promoted.
We had Leeds fans slagging off Grayson, etc, etc.
If Parky's job is under threat, then whose in Division One is not? I suppose Poyet, and whoever it is managing Carlisle.
The only club which performed the way people seem to expect us to perform was Norwich. And They Had Lots More Money Than Us.
Despite some worries, I'm still backing Parky because his plusses outweigh his minusses.
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]Kevin Blackwell- in 3 seasons at Sheffield Utd he finished 9th, 3rd and 8th in the championship. How is that average?!
Could argue they should be in the play-offs at least every season.
Possibly, i guess we'll be able to measure how good Blackwell was once we see how Speed gets on there.
Ask any Sheffield United fan about Blackwell, they will hugely criticise both his style of football and his over use of the loan market (heard this one before), not sure the exact number but there were a lot of loans there last season. He may get decent results but Sheffield United are a fairly big club at Championship level and he inherited some very good Championship players imho (Kenny, Stephen Quinn, Beattie, Morgan etc). Not sure if he is any better than Parkinson.
As for Dave Penny, sure I read from the knowing you knowing Oldham feature on here, that the majority of Oldham fans also felt the style of football was boring. I remember a quote about games being a chore. His results at Oldham were fairly poor and they only just survived relegation last season. Certainly no better than Parky in my opinion.
I am in the pro Parky camp but if he is to leave then Tilson would be my choice, worked wonders at Southend and they were only relegated due to financial constraints, with Barnard, they would surely have been comfortable mid table. Also it could be seen he was at Southend a little too long and the club was ready for a change.
Also you guys who are doom merchants, I respect your right to say it but hey look at the club's history, we have been in worse situations with worse managers and far worse owners and have survived, so get behind your team and support Charlton.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]I'll say it again I support Parkey
Also you guys who are doom merchants, I respect your right to say it but hey look at the club's history, we have been in worse situations with worse managers and far worse owners and have survived, so get behind your team and support Charlton.
I paid my money and did vocally for 90 minutes on saturday as I do at every game I go to so dont understand that point.
[cite]Posted By: lancashire lad[/cite]I'll say it again I support Parkey
Also you guys who are doom merchants, I respect your right to say it but hey look at the club's history, we have been in worse situations with worse managers and far worse owners and have survived, so get behind your team and support Charlton.
I guess considering my posts about Parky i'd be considered a 'doom merchant' but i still go to the games and get behind the side. Just because i think Parky should go doesn't mean that i or any of the others who want him gone, don't support the team. We all want what's best for Charlton, but personally i think he's had long enough.
I don't want rid of Parky, just yet at least, but if there was any serious desire to get shot at board level, then we missed the boat when Garry Johnson joined Peterbrough - he would have been an ideal replacement imo and as a new manager he'd have been in a position to assemble a squad he wanted - a luxury any new man wouldn't have now. There are lots of good managers out there who'd jump at the chance to join Charlton and may well do a better job than Parky has (may well not as well though) but imo, the big problem we'd face is that there are very very few managers who'd you currently consider 'good' and who are both atainable AND out of work. If we could afford to poach an Eddie Howe or similar, then there might be some miles in the nototion of changing managers but imo we can't/won't pay to sign someone else and now would be the wrong time anyway .
I understand where the negatives vibes about Parky are rooted, and I'm sympathetic to some of it but, for me, this is the season to really judge Parky - it's undeniably his team this time around and there are no Dicksons or Moo2s hanging around potential causing trouble. If he can't make a fist of it this time then it's time to part ways, but ANYONE (pro or anti) who thinks they KNOW how this season will pan out yet are deluding themselves, imo.
Any success we have had as a club has come with a stable manager. Jimmy Seed, Lennie Lawrence, Alan Curbishley being the three best examples.
Phil Parkinson has "proper Charlton" credentials and I think, at our budget level, has as good a chance as anybody of getting us where we want to be.
The league season is a marathon not a sprint. If we are struggling at Christmas I might think again depending on the circumstances at the time. For the moment he deserves our unequivocal support.
Mind you Alan Curbishley got slagged off, with some wanting him sacked, when finishing mid table in the Premiership so I won't hold my breath re our fans getting behind Parky!
Comments
Could be, I am not one of them though.
i think they're referring to murrays comments about how important promotion is to our future
not all the other clubs have as much debt as us or have outgoings as big as us
we all know he should never have been given the job in the first place now , although it took hindsight for some to wake up to that fact , our best chance of championship football was when we were in the league itself , not going for the fresh impetus push has consigned us to our current sorry position in english football
We have lost away to a top 3 side and a last minute arguable penalty at Exeter.
Saturdays game changed on one decision, Notts County we played rubbish and still won....
Talk about knee jerk.
It will be the same idiots who 'expect' us to win tomorrow night. I dont, MK are a decent side at this level so certainly hope for a hard fought win rather than expecting us to roll them over 5-1 like last season.
exactly. If we don't get promoted this season then things are only going to get worse as finances become even tighter. Let's not forget that RM has put in the 4m to cover this seasons wage bill. Without that we'd be losing money hand over fist. As it is income doesn't cover expenses even with wages excluded. He won't do it next year.
Abject failure ? religation or a very low finish this year and yes it might very well be all over.
The dreaded administartion ?please who will come in and put money in ? the guys that have already been burnt ? thats why it could be thee end.
the whole point though is that this isn't knee-jerk, quite the opposite in fact. If it is then my knee started jerking nearly two years ago.
"Chris Coleman - fresh from failing at Coventry, another ex-Palace personality would be a great choice as they always do well at Charlton;
Steve Tilson - just lead Southend to League 2 so perfect for us.
Penney/Blackwell - average.
What is it about these people that makes them so much better than Parkinson?"
How did Chris Coleman fail at Coventry? He might not have got them promoted but did he get them relegated, then fail to go back up, then look like doing even worse the next season a la Parkinson? Fair do's on the ex-Palace thing, but i was just offering possibilities.
Tilson failed in the end due to their financial problems. However does that make him a bad manager? You're also conveniently forgetting the 5 years before last season. He led Southend to 2 straight promotions in his time there, they also beat a full strength Man Utd in the cup. His record there:
Season 1 - promotion to league one
Season 2 - promotion to the championship
Season 3 - relegation
Season 4 - league one play offs
Season 5 - 8th in league one
Season 6 - relegated. But without the financial problems and having to sell Barnard in January they'd have stayed up.
I don't think that's a bad overall record for a club deemed much smaller than ours.
Dave Penney likewise had 2 successive promotions at Doncaster and they always played good passing football under his management.
Kevin Blackwell- in 3 seasons at Sheffield Utd he finished 9th, 3rd and 8th in the championship. How is that average?!
It is laughable how you dismiss him as average but are happy to put up with what we have!
It may mean watching cack football for another 4/5 years and maybe getting a lucky promotion through the playoffs
But certainly not mean the death of our club
As for other teams, Man city,Leeds Leicester,Forest
OK they got out this shite league before the recession bit, but come on the death of our club...Yor avin a larf
No, the whole point is this was clearly labelled as a supportive thread yet has dominated again by people with the opposite view repeatedly regurgitating their points, over ten times in some instances.
We get the message guys, you've made it loud and clear. Not saying your stance is wrong or that you shouldn't post it, of course you should, but it seems that it is always those with a negative or critical view on things that seem to fill the need to repeat it more often than they need to.
i do not believe he is the right man nor did i ever believe it. I do believe that he needs to be supported right now but the death bell is ringing once he loses the fans, which he is very close to doing and by fans i mean a big majority, I still think right now it is a Minority that are not happy or satisied with him.
I am in the Very Unhappy with him camp as most should have worked out by now.
But it is not the fact we dont have the money to get rid that i dont want him to go just yet, to me the alternatives and consequences of getting the timing and the right person in place first far out way that issue.
I agree the talent is there.
If he fails to win Midweek i think that the pendulum of the fans will swing across to something needs to be done NOW ala norwich last year and there will be no return for him IMO
he is playing for his future game by game
Wish I shared that confidence mate. RM has stated we are not viable and are loss making at this level and therefore no doubt any level below. Is RM really going to hang about for another 4/5 years losing his personal wealth? Add to that the inevitable drop in income from fleeting attendances I would say that whilst a pessimistic view it may not be an unrealistic one.
can't say I agree
We need to be supporters and SUPPORT. Doesn't mean you have to like Parky or his tactics, just SUPPORT him and his team that's it....
Could argue they should be in the play-offs at least every season.
He also didn't give Kyel Reid a chance, who according to some on here is a Championship winger.
As for Penney, Tilson etc, might do well here but they could just as easily be no better than Parky. If promotion is a requirement how long should a new manager get to settle?
What do you suppose is the mood of Sheffield Wednesday fans right now.
We've heard here that the spanners at this time last season were slagging off both their manager and the boy who eventually scored the goals that got them promoted.
We had Leeds fans slagging off Grayson, etc, etc.
If Parky's job is under threat, then whose in Division One is not? I suppose Poyet, and whoever it is managing Carlisle.
The only club which performed the way people seem to expect us to perform was Norwich. And They Had Lots More Money Than Us.
Despite some worries, I'm still backing Parky because his plusses outweigh his minusses.
Possibly, i guess we'll be able to measure how good Blackwell was once we see how Speed gets on there.
As for Dave Penny, sure I read from the knowing you knowing Oldham feature on here, that the majority of Oldham fans also felt the style of football was boring. I remember a quote about games being a chore. His results at Oldham were fairly poor and they only just survived relegation last season. Certainly no better than Parky in my opinion.
I am in the pro Parky camp but if he is to leave then Tilson would be my choice, worked wonders at Southend and they were only relegated due to financial constraints, with Barnard, they would surely have been comfortable mid table. Also it could be seen he was at Southend a little too long and the club was ready for a change.
Also you guys who are doom merchants, I respect your right to say it but hey look at the club's history, we have been in worse situations with worse managers and far worse owners and have survived, so get behind your team and support Charlton.
I paid my money and did vocally for 90 minutes on saturday as I do at every game I go to so dont understand that point.
I guess considering my posts about Parky i'd be considered a 'doom merchant' but i still go to the games and get behind the side. Just because i think Parky should go doesn't mean that i or any of the others who want him gone, don't support the team. We all want what's best for Charlton, but personally i think he's had long enough.
I understand where the negatives vibes about Parky are rooted, and I'm sympathetic to some of it but, for me, this is the season to really judge Parky - it's undeniably his team this time around and there are no Dicksons or Moo2s hanging around potential causing trouble. If he can't make a fist of it this time then it's time to part ways, but ANYONE (pro or anti) who thinks they KNOW how this season will pan out yet are deluding themselves, imo.
Dunno, but he is a nice bloke.
Phil Parkinson has "proper Charlton" credentials and I think, at our budget level, has as good a chance as anybody of getting us where we want to be.
The league season is a marathon not a sprint. If we are struggling at Christmas I might think again depending on the circumstances at the time. For the moment he deserves our unequivocal support.
Mind you Alan Curbishley got slagged off, with some wanting him sacked, when finishing mid table in the Premiership so I won't hold my breath re our fans getting behind Parky!