[cite]Posted By: Charlton Dan[/cite]So what sweeping generalisations was I making BFR prey tell?
Me? Rhetoric? LMFAO...... Oh that's rich!!
Its my point of view....Are we not allowed to have a point of view that differs from yours without the fear of being branded as some sort of Daily Mail Lemming, as seems to be your fall back to more centre right / less liberal beliefs that some of us have?
I note with a huge great big smile on my face that your starting to attempt to be patronising.....I'd suggest you try a hell of a lot harder as all your doing is showing your true colours (as usual).
Still if it makes you feel better about yourself, then who am I to stop you plumping up your own self-esteem.
[cite]Posted By: BlackForestReds[/cite]I'm not argiung for a softly-softly approach, just that we need to remember that a more aggressive policing policy which in the past did not work won't work again. Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat its mistakes...
"The only reason the riots happened was that white liberal middle class do-gooders, with a guilt complex carried over from the slave trade, said that the Police were being racially discriminatory or members of the community screaming "Racist"....."
Utter crap, I suggest you read the Scarman report which laid the blame for the inner city riots on deep seated socio-economic problems that were exacerbated by over-zealous policing. When a few years later I was at Uni I had a black friend who was studying to be a lawyer. He was from Hackney and once the listed the number of times he'd been stopped, searched, or had friends who'd been treated similarly. When compared to his white friends, or to my experience (stopped maybe once or twice) it was clear that there was a racial disparity in the way he/other Afro-Caribbeans and white people were being treated. Consequently despite wanting to be a lawyer he grew up to distrust the police and I imagine a lot of his contemporaries did too.
However you do win the award for the cheap Daily Mail knee-jerk reaction of the day.
Looking at the US they have far stricter sentencing which includes executing people or whole of life tariffs for murder, rape and even aggravated assault, and yet they still have far more crime than we do, including more violent crime - around 10,000 plus people in the US are killed every year by guns alone, per capita that is much higher than the UK and anywhere in Europe. The lock 'em up and throw away the key policy which does I grant you make for muscular sounding government therefore doesn't work. Part of the solution is though tougher policing/sentencing, but it has to be focused and directed properly - in the 80s it wasn't always and its notable that when the policing policy changed the riots stopped, or it might have been that Thatcher was finally deposed, you decide.
If say drug/organised crime is at the heart of some of this then the police need to go after dealers before their turf disputes turn murderous and I don't think anyone (other than the dealers) would have a problem with that. Secondly it's easy in Dail Mail land to suggest that these people all study hard at school, respect their elders, then go on to uni or get jobs etc, but many of these kids are coming from broken homes and often in these communities crime by peer groups is seen as a viable career alternative with a police record being part of the risk/reward strategy, plus there are some that think that a criminal record is something to be proud of. In the last couple of decades as a society we've offered less and less to school leavers - there are fewer apprenticeship schemes around than there once were and that is part of the problem.
Come on now BFR, stop offering practical, sensible thought out solutions you know a good bit of vigilantism is just what this country needs. We don't solutions that might fix the problem down the track we want things that make us BELIEVE the problem is being fixed now.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These kids don't want to be at school in the 1st place with so many of them in certain areas going through school knowing they leave and can live comfortably on the dole.....
Live comfortably on the dole? On the 47.95 per week that 18-24 year olds get from the Jobseekers Allowance? Oh, please. I have had mates on the dole (and been on it myself for a grand total of two weeks when I left university) and I can't remember any of them "living comfortably" its the most depressing experience ever. And, no, I am not saying it should be raised, just that you cannot live comfortably on 48 quid per week even if you are at home with your folks. What the feck does 48 quid buy these days?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There's are reason why people from the areas he's mentioned (Brixton, Toxteth, St Paul's etc) were being targeted by the police and that's because they were committing the majority of the crimes.....The only reason the riots happened was that white liberal middle class do-gooders, with a guilt complex carried over from the slave trade, said that the Police were being racially discriminatory or members of the community screaming "Racist".....
Oh right, that's the race riots all nicely sorted out then. All down to "white liberal middle class do-gooders," I am so glad that one has been cleared up. I used to work near Broadwater Farm and the place was an absolute tinder box, crowds of unemployed black kids hanging around with nothing to do but get into trouble and nobody really gave a toss about the place until the riots finally happened and finally people started to pay attention to what was going on down there.
Similar to BFR I had black mates at school and college who were great lads but who really, really hated the police and would not be talked round no matter how hard you tried. It was not until you were with them in the streets and they got hassled by the old bill that you realised how humiliating it was for them, especially when it happened in front of crowds of white people.
Sure, stop and search would catch some scum with knives but lets say that 25 from every 100 stop and searches find something (and that's ridiculously high) that would mean that to find those 25 you have really, really pissed off 75 people who are now anti-police and will become even more alienated from the rest of us because they are made to feel like foreigners in their own country.
For every course of action you take there will be consequences, you have to weigh up whether its worth paying that price.
yep the flowers and ties are still there and growing for Jimmy Mizen. Although a random rug has appeared. it doesn't seem to be a shrine for youth to hang around, as there weren't great numbers of youth hanging around there before it happened anyway. its quite a quiet parade of shops in the evenings.
the old tesco/dillons in sidcup was always a youth shrine, no surprise that they'll mill about elsewhere with nothing to do. its so sad really as there are things for kids to do out there, but if the parents don't encourage them to get to these things, why would they bother? they don't cost anything either.
as its lighter these days, how many of you lads would have played out this weekend till it got dark? at least 8pm? every day we had off of school we used to head to the park to play cricket/football/swings out on our bikes. in the winter i can understand not having much to do, but I wasn't allowed out when a kid after it got dark, so how come, when its apparently less safe to do so these days, are kids allowed out?!? do parents just not care as much?
All that link proves is that he was a Liberal.....
Just leave it BFR. You're name calling is childish and pathetic at best.
I've neither got the time nor the inclination to discuss this with someone so blinkered to their own belief that they are right, that they're not even prepared to enter into discussion in an adult fashion, without the need for a safety net of generalising anyone that holds a different perspective as some sort of mindless Lemming who just regurgitates what they read in the media with the political persuasion mirroring their own.
My mistake. I should have realised not to enter into discussion with you from the number of similar previous topics where you've done the same.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]as its lighter these days, how many of you lads would have played out this weekend till it got dark? at least 8pm? every day we had off of school we used to head to the park to play cricket/football/swings out on our bikes.
thats a really good point. We had a playing field that backed onto our house as a kid, and we used to play football in summer from lunchtime till tea when our mums would call us in for dinner, and if things were good, you were allowed back round there to play again until the light started to go.
I'm now next to a playing field in sidcup, and all you see in the evening is teens smoking and drinking in the swings area. Though only time you see lads having a kickaround is when its an organised training session.
im 21 and i used to play over malborough park whenever i could with friends on weekends or after school. alot of weekends we'd go to mary + wilson park and play tennis. You hardly ever see kids doing that thesedays. Playstation generation...
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]as its lighter these days, how many of you lads would have played out this weekend till it got dark? at least 8pm? every day we had off of school we used to head to the park to play cricket/football/swings out on our bikes.
thats a really good point. We had a playing field that backed onto our house as a kid, and we used to play football in summer from lunchtime till tea when our mums would call us in for dinner, and if things were good, you were allowed back round there to play again until the light started to go.
I'm now next to a playing field in sidcup, and all you see in the evening is teens smoking and drinking in the swings area. Though only time you see lads having a kickaround is when its an organised training session.
Yup, agreed. I used to live in an estate in Charlton during my teens and we would be out all day on the ground in the middle of the estate playing football. From what I hear of that estate now, it is no longer the case.
Certainly don't see many kids round Bexleyheath / Welling playing football.
Not sure it is different anywhere - I went out to Wilmington yesterday with my wife and daughter to put some finishing plans to my daughters wedding. Quite a nice area, and yet on the way back, we passed a green with about 25 kids on there doing absolutely nothing except trying to look threatening.
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]as its lighter these days, how many of you lads would have played out this weekend till it got dark? at least 8pm? every day we had off of school we used to head to the park to play cricket/football/swings out on our bikes.
thats a really good point. We had a playing field that backed onto our house as a kid, and we used to play football in summer from lunchtime till tea when our mums would call us in for dinner, and if things were good, you were allowed back round there to play again until the light started to go.
I'm now next to a playing field in sidcup, and all you see in the evening is teens smoking and drinking in the swings area. Though only time you see lads having a kickaround is when its an organised training session.
When we were kids (not teenagers) we were forever going to Cowboy Land on Blackheath on our bikes and generally enjoying ourselves with little or no fear and anything happening to us as long as we were careful crossing the roads. My parents door was always left open and we could come and go as we pleased. These days I worry myself sick when my 6 yr old goes around to a friends to play (and wants to walk the 100 yards herself), but I cant wrap her in cotton wool.....
Does this perhaps have something to do with the lack of competitive sport being encouraged in schools?
On a positive note, they are always kids playing football in Eltham Park, not just organised events, real jumpers for goalposts stuff. From age 10-18, they often mix together too. My boys have been going up there for a few years, probably up there now.Never been a hint of any bother. Also the tennis courts are very well used. I see lots of kids on bikes around my area too.
I don't know of any schools that do not play competitive sport. I think this is a bit of a myth. Both my lads play football and cricket for their respective schools and play all the local schools. Even at primary level there are some very well organised tournaments at both sports and they are very competitive.
My youngest ended playing his indoor cricket final at Lords. A Greenwich state school I hasten to add.
Another angle for the debate - Sky News artical is saying that violent games and films are to blame for the rising in violence in "young adults"
Personally I disagree - I watch films like "Saw" and "Hostal" I also watch my brother play computer games such as Grand Theft Auto and other similar games - and at NO point do I feel the urge to go out and stab or shoot or kick someone to death........
It goes back to the point where the parents of these kids are lacking in teaching their kids right from wrong.
Myself and my Brother were bought up by our wonderful Mum and Dad who tought us right from wrong, hense the difference between us and the scum on the streets doing these god awful things........
[cite]Posted By: MariaCAFC[/cite]Another angle for the debate - Sky News artical is saying that violent games and films are to blame for the rising in violence in "young adults"
I raised this a couple of weeks ago, though most disagreed.
I still believe there is something in it though. Not for average joe's who have their heads screwed on, i mean the minority that cross the line. Playing bloodthirsty computer games, those where knives, guns are built into the culture of the game can get into the mindset, particularly as the graphics on these games nowadays are so realistic.
[cite]Posted By: Chirpy Red[/cite]I don't know of any schools that do not play competitive sport. I think this is a bit of a myth. Both my lads play football and cricket for their respective schools and play all the local schools. Even at primary level there are some very well organised tournaments at both sports and they are very competitive.
My daughters school has their school sports day last June where no one won / lost, their were no prizes etc.....Because they didnt want the less sporty kids to feel ashamed just because theyre not as good at the egg and spoon as another kid.......Thats fine. In that case you'll be getting rid of academic grading as well then?
[cite]Posted By: MariaCAFC[/cite]Another angle for the debate - Sky News artical is saying that violent games and films are to blame for the rising in violence in "young adults"
I raised this a couple of weeks ago, though most disagreed.
I still believe there is something in it though. Not for average joe's who have their heads screwed on, i mean the minority that cross the line. Playing bloodthirsty computer games, those where knives, guns are built into the culture of the game can get into the mindset, particularly as the graphics on these games nowadays are so realistic.
I can see where your coming from and agree with what you are saying too..
Only solution is to tear down the liberal consensus that has goeverned us for the last 40 years. Allowing children unfettered rights has raised an underclass of untouchables who've become the 'f*ck you generation'. Bye bye to automatic benefits (including your own home) for getting pregnant and a police and legal system that attacks and punishes criminality rather than onr that makes excuses for it. Those that say old style policing didn't work fundementally misunderstand what it was trying to do, it had no interest in reforming behaviour it was there to literally put its boot into the wronguns and keep them coralled away from the rest of us. Once the boot was taken away look what happens.
In my opinion a lot of the reason for youth criminality is the breakdown in traditional family values and successive governments have to take their share of blame for this.
Marriage has been devalued in that there is now no acknowledgement of marriage in the tax system unless you were born in 1935 or before! People therefore choose to live together which makes it far easier to finish when there are difficult times which happen even in the most solid relationships. Children like and need stability. The devaluation of marriage removes a major instrument of stability.It has become very difficult for one parent to look after the children while the other works because of the scandalously high cost of living. A child therefore is often forced to spend much of it's formative years being inculcated with other peoples values and standards of behaviour rather than those of the family.
"It's all the parents fault!" Yes there is an element of that in that parents tired from working all week will tell their children to go out and play with their mates and often have no idea what the children are doing.
However governments have undermined parenthood. Government has allowed underage girls to obtain contraception from school without the parents being told as one example! Surely a dutiful parent (s) has the right to discuss attitudes to sex with their children rather than having "right on" teachers forcing contraception on their daughters and cynically telling dominant members of the group to exert peer pressure.
In other words parents who actively want to influence their children are marginalised by the State education system through no fault of their own.
Government has marginalised fathers except where it wants to pursue them through the CSA. Just last week Parliament passed an act stating that fathers were not needed to create children. Yet again the traditional family, and the stability given by it, is undermined. How often in divorce cases do the courts give access orders for fathers to regularly have contact with their children only for the mother to openly defy the court. Can the father get justice? All too often no.
One could argue that the parents shouldn't have divorced and indeed it maybe that divorce is too easy but that is another topic. The fact is fathers who wish to actively participate in the lives of their children are viewed at best indifferently by the state unless the State wants their money.
In my opinion the Government needs to encourage family life and if it does that over time the situation will improve.
Nice to see BFR thinking a softly softly aproach will help. Where are you living again ?
Watch any fictional cop show on TV the vigilates always get the wrong guy ! we of course know that the OB ALWAYS get the right guy !
cant see how vigilanties will change things ,but if it gets the OB off their arses all well and good.
Who was the labour Cabinet Minister who advised people not to be "vigalantes but to jump up and down to distract an attaker" FFS what spinelessTwats they are.
So the OB have done all they can ? no they havnt why not stop all the "easy nicks" so they hit their targets and get EVERY copper on the beat hammering people who are tooled up?
HM Gov spout figures that is not really all that bad ? who in their right mind would believe ANY FIGURE they said ?
The whole system is seen as week by these scum bags. people cant defend themselves, courts wont impose stiff penalties, scum bag can claim"human rights" abuses and lawyers fall over themselves to represent them in court.
I think if you are one of yours is threatened or hurt you use MAXIMUM force. When the OB come knocking and your nicked ( as they will) go to trial. There isnt a jury in this land that would find you guilty.
BFR before you go throwing insults about , i`ll tell you how bad it is. Even geting on a bus at 5PM you have to think "should i pull the yoof who has jumped the que?" or should i just wait my turn and say nothing in case him or his posse stab me to death ?
[cite]Posted By: F-Blocker[/cite]I like it when Len posts on a subject like this - always seems to me to be a well thought out comment coming from a slightly different angle.
I think people have been saying that the kids/teens are out of control since the 50s.
Although weapons have sadly become more common, which I think the real issue is here, growing up in the 90s sounded a lot safer than the the stories my dad told me about growing up in the 70s. I sometimes see kids under-age drinking/smoking in parks and ask myself what is the world coming to, forgetting that I used to do the same.
Something else that I've just thought about. Back in the day you used to have a lot of under-age drinkers in pubs, but now with bouncers at most pubs and everyone getting IDed it's become a lot rarer. These kids are still going to get drunk and if they don't do it in a pub they're going to do it in the street which is more dangerous and doesn't have a bar tender telling them that they've had enough tonight. Probably barking up the wrong tree with this one though!
BFR before you go throwing insults about , i`ll tell you how bad it is. Even geting on a bus at 5PM you have to think "should i pull the yoof who has jumped the que?" or should i just wait my turn and say nothing in case him or his posse stab me to death ?
............
If geting worked up about queue jumping is the most serious problem that society faces and you personally experience then I suggest the problem isn't as bad as you think it is...
Just put another sign up saying "Knifes and Guns not allowed" under the other not allowed signs: no loitering, no dogs, no skateboarding, no skating, no cycling, no picnic, no roasting, no parking, no drinking, no farting, no litter, no balls games, no walking/smoking on grass, no mobiles, no smoking (period), no art, no WiFi, Nein Nuclear danke, no tree felling, no pigeons, no photography, no parking, no fun, no beer, no nothink.........urgh!
Are you for real ? might be a tad more worried about geting chived and the point (lost on you) was you can get stabbed to death for something that trivial. As did the poor guy who asked this scum bag to stop throwing chips at his girl friend.
Of course we are all making it up and you who live miles away would know better wouldnt you ?
Next time you venture back take a evening trip on the top deck of a bus in inner London. Walk around Woolwich after dark. Make sure you have very good insurance though.
Comments
As I said, go away and try harder...
Caught kicking the sh*t out of someone - £150 fine
Smashing a lightbulb on a train - £350 fine
There's also no consistency on sentances. Should be something like:
Caught with a knife - 10 years
Murder - life (life meaning exactly that, not out in 15 years)
Shouldnt be down to the judges/magistrates to issue their own sentances, should be across the board.
Come on now BFR, stop offering practical, sensible thought out solutions you know a good bit of vigilantism is just what this country needs. We don't solutions that might fix the problem down the track we want things that make us BELIEVE the problem is being fixed now.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
These kids don't want to be at school in the 1st place with so many of them in certain areas going through school knowing they leave and can live comfortably on the dole.....
Live comfortably on the dole? On the 47.95 per week that 18-24 year olds get from the Jobseekers Allowance? Oh, please. I have had mates on the dole (and been on it myself for a grand total of two weeks when I left university) and I can't remember any of them "living comfortably" its the most depressing experience ever. And, no, I am not saying it should be raised, just that you cannot live comfortably on 48 quid per week even if you are at home with your folks. What the feck does 48 quid buy these days?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There's are reason why people from the areas he's mentioned (Brixton, Toxteth, St Paul's etc) were being targeted by the police and that's because they were committing the majority of the crimes.....The only reason the riots happened was that white liberal middle class do-gooders, with a guilt complex carried over from the slave trade, said that the Police were being racially discriminatory or members of the community screaming "Racist".....
Oh right, that's the race riots all nicely sorted out then. All down to "white liberal middle class do-gooders," I am so glad that one has been cleared up. I used to work near Broadwater Farm and the place was an absolute tinder box, crowds of unemployed black kids hanging around with nothing to do but get into trouble and nobody really gave a toss about the place until the riots finally happened and finally people started to pay attention to what was going on down there.
Similar to BFR I had black mates at school and college who were great lads but who really, really hated the police and would not be talked round no matter how hard you tried. It was not until you were with them in the streets and they got hassled by the old bill that you realised how humiliating it was for them, especially when it happened in front of crowds of white people.
Sure, stop and search would catch some scum with knives but lets say that 25 from every 100 stop and searches find something (and that's ridiculously high) that would mean that to find those 25 you have really, really pissed off 75 people who are now anti-police and will become even more alienated from the rest of us because they are made to feel like foreigners in their own country.
For every course of action you take there will be consequences, you have to weigh up whether its worth paying that price.
the old tesco/dillons in sidcup was always a youth shrine, no surprise that they'll mill about elsewhere with nothing to do. its so sad really as there are things for kids to do out there, but if the parents don't encourage them to get to these things, why would they bother? they don't cost anything either.
as its lighter these days, how many of you lads would have played out this weekend till it got dark? at least 8pm? every day we had off of school we used to head to the park to play cricket/football/swings out on our bikes. in the winter i can understand not having much to do, but I wasn't allowed out when a kid after it got dark, so how come, when its apparently less safe to do so these days, are kids allowed out?!? do parents just not care as much?
Just leave it BFR. You're name calling is childish and pathetic at best.
I've neither got the time nor the inclination to discuss this with someone so blinkered to their own belief that they are right, that they're not even prepared to enter into discussion in an adult fashion, without the need for a safety net of generalising anyone that holds a different perspective as some sort of mindless Lemming who just regurgitates what they read in the media with the political persuasion mirroring their own.
My mistake. I should have realised not to enter into discussion with you from the number of similar previous topics where you've done the same.
I'm sure we'll all learn given time.
thats a really good point. We had a playing field that backed onto our house as a kid, and we used to play football in summer from lunchtime till tea when our mums would call us in for dinner, and if things were good, you were allowed back round there to play again until the light started to go.
I'm now next to a playing field in sidcup, and all you see in the evening is teens smoking and drinking in the swings area. Though only time you see lads having a kickaround is when its an organised training session.
debate it sensibly without the digs or the smarminess, or don't debate at all. Otherwise it will get sunk.
Of course growing up in SE London I dont and never had had any black friends myself.......
Yup, agreed. I used to live in an estate in Charlton during my teens and we would be out all day on the ground in the middle of the estate playing football. From what I hear of that estate now, it is no longer the case.
Certainly don't see many kids round Bexleyheath / Welling playing football.
Not sure it is different anywhere - I went out to Wilmington yesterday with my wife and daughter to put some finishing plans to my daughters wedding. Quite a nice area, and yet on the way back, we passed a green with about 25 kids on there doing absolutely nothing except trying to look threatening.
When we were kids (not teenagers) we were forever going to Cowboy Land on Blackheath on our bikes and generally enjoying ourselves with little or no fear and anything happening to us as long as we were careful crossing the roads. My parents door was always left open and we could come and go as we pleased. These days I worry myself sick when my 6 yr old goes around to a friends to play (and wants to walk the 100 yards herself), but I cant wrap her in cotton wool.....
Does this perhaps have something to do with the lack of competitive sport being encouraged in schools?
I don't know of any schools that do not play competitive sport. I think this is a bit of a myth. Both my lads play football and cricket for their respective schools and play all the local schools. Even at primary level there are some very well organised tournaments at both sports and they are very competitive.
My youngest ended playing his indoor cricket final at Lords. A Greenwich state school I hasten to add.
Personally I disagree - I watch films like "Saw" and "Hostal" I also watch my brother play computer games such as Grand Theft Auto and other similar games - and at NO point do I feel the urge to go out and stab or shoot or kick someone to death........
It goes back to the point where the parents of these kids are lacking in teaching their kids right from wrong.
Myself and my Brother were bought up by our wonderful Mum and Dad who tought us right from wrong, hense the difference between us and the scum on the streets doing these god awful things........
I raised this a couple of weeks ago, though most disagreed.
I still believe there is something in it though. Not for average joe's who have their heads screwed on, i mean the minority that cross the line. Playing bloodthirsty computer games, those where knives, guns are built into the culture of the game can get into the mindset, particularly as the graphics on these games nowadays are so realistic.
My daughters school has their school sports day last June where no one won / lost, their were no prizes etc.....Because they didnt want the less sporty kids to feel ashamed just because theyre not as good at the egg and spoon as another kid.......Thats fine. In that case you'll be getting rid of academic grading as well then?
I can see where your coming from and agree with what you are saying too..
Marriage has been devalued in that there is now no acknowledgement of marriage in the tax system unless you were born in 1935 or before! People therefore choose to live together which makes it far easier to finish when there are difficult times which happen even in the most solid relationships. Children like and need stability. The devaluation of marriage removes a major instrument of stability.It has become very difficult for one parent to look after the children while the other works because of the scandalously high cost of living. A child therefore is often forced to spend much of it's formative years being inculcated with other peoples values and standards of behaviour rather than those of the family.
"It's all the parents fault!" Yes there is an element of that in that parents tired from working all week will tell their children to go out and play with their mates and often have no idea what the children are doing.
However governments have undermined parenthood. Government has allowed underage girls to obtain contraception from school without the parents being told as one example! Surely a dutiful parent (s) has the right to discuss attitudes to sex with their children rather than having "right on" teachers forcing contraception on their daughters and cynically telling dominant members of the group to exert peer pressure.
In other words parents who actively want to influence their children are marginalised by the State education system through no fault of their own.
Government has marginalised fathers except where it wants to pursue them through the CSA. Just last week Parliament passed an act stating that fathers were not needed to create children. Yet again the traditional family, and the stability given by it, is undermined. How often in divorce cases do the courts give access orders for fathers to regularly have contact with their children only for the mother to openly defy the court. Can the father get justice? All too often no.
One could argue that the parents shouldn't have divorced and indeed it maybe that divorce is too easy but that is another topic. The fact is fathers who wish to actively participate in the lives of their children are viewed at best indifferently by the state unless the State wants their money.
In my opinion the Government needs to encourage family life and if it does that over time the situation will improve.
Watch any fictional cop show on TV the vigilates always get the wrong guy ! we of course know that the OB ALWAYS get the right guy !
cant see how vigilanties will change things ,but if it gets the OB off their arses all well and good.
Who was the labour Cabinet Minister who advised people not to be "vigalantes but to jump up and down to distract an attaker" FFS what spinelessTwats they are.
So the OB have done all they can ? no they havnt why not stop all the "easy nicks" so they hit their targets and get EVERY copper on the beat hammering people who are tooled up?
HM Gov spout figures that is not really all that bad ? who in their right mind would believe ANY FIGURE they said ?
The whole system is seen as week by these scum bags. people cant defend themselves, courts wont impose stiff penalties, scum bag can claim"human rights" abuses and lawyers fall over themselves to represent them in court.
I think if you are one of yours is threatened or hurt you use MAXIMUM force. When the OB come knocking and your nicked ( as they will) go to trial. There isnt a jury in this land that would find you guilty.
BFR before you go throwing insults about , i`ll tell you how bad it is. Even geting on a bus at 5PM you have to think "should i pull the yoof who has jumped the que?" or should i just wait my turn and say nothing in case him or his posse stab me to death ?
"ALL"??? Talk about alienate your punters!
This sounds suspicioualy like a bit of a Gearld Ratner comment. He was a short-erse, wasn't he?
Something the Tories have been quite open about pushing forward. How its implemented is the bigger task...
agreed f blocker
Although weapons have sadly become more common, which I think the real issue is here, growing up in the 90s sounded a lot safer than the the stories my dad told me about growing up in the 70s. I sometimes see kids under-age drinking/smoking in parks and ask myself what is the world coming to, forgetting that I used to do the same.
Something else that I've just thought about. Back in the day you used to have a lot of under-age drinkers in pubs, but now with bouncers at most pubs and everyone getting IDed it's become a lot rarer. These kids are still going to get drunk and if they don't do it in a pub they're going to do it in the street which is more dangerous and doesn't have a bar tender telling them that they've had enough tonight. Probably barking up the wrong tree with this one though!
............
If geting worked up about queue jumping is the most serious problem that society faces and you personally experience then I suggest the problem isn't as bad as you think it is...
Of course we are all making it up and you who live miles away would know better wouldnt you ?
Next time you venture back take a evening trip on the top deck of a bus in inner London. Walk around Woolwich after dark. Make sure you have very good insurance though.