the impression I get from the limited number of games I've seen is that our midfield is being consistently overwhelmed/bypassed for large periods, very worrying given the purchase of Bailey,
Our defending has improved I agree, but do we really need to give them so much to do?
Also the supply problem is still not sorted.
I completely agree with you that he is over positive in expecting some players to play out of position and others to step up Wagstaff being the case in point - he was clearly a country mile from this level plain for all to see, yet Pards seems surprised when he failed in the Cup, I don't blame him for giving youth a chance its just that he doesn't seem to be able to see the obvious.
Tactically I just can't stomach this nicking a goal, conceding posession and defending backs to the wall for the vast majority of the game - it can't do anything for confidence and must be very tiring, which will and has lead to injuries.
Oggy:"The manager changes things around to get results - he get's those results, so some people start discussing who amongst the most inexperienced should replace him........ (!) "
Mate if we criticise when we're losing games we get called reactionary, can't win eh.. I'd hardly call either result convincing, I think riding our luck would be kinder.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]the impression I get from the limited number of games I've seen is that our midfield is being consistently overwhelmed/bypassed for large periods ....
Matt Holland runs around a lot and shows willing and desire but I think he achieves little - he doesn't create much and he doesn't add steel; if we want to carry on as we are and finish about 9th or 10th then fine. If we want to aim for more control and creativity in midfield (and target a top 4 finish), then he should not be a regular imho.
4-5-1 away and no one scores against again.Four points out of six. But you think Holland achieves very little and is meant to be the creative player out there and should be replaced immediately?
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]the impression I get from the limited number of games I've seen is that our midfield is being consistently overwhelmed/bypassed for large periods, very worrying given the purchase of Bailey,
Our defending has improved I agree, but do we really need to give them so much to do?
This is the old "glass is half full or half empty" scenario and I freely admit that like Pards I am in the former, whereas you are clearly in the latter.
So far we have played all three promoted teams and have taken 7 out of 9 points. All of these teams played organised, neat, passing football, having clearly had great seasons. Doncaster by all accounts completely outplayed Title favourites Birmingham in their previous game yet came up short.
There has been a huge change in playing staff over the past couple of seasons and Pardew is re-building. You can look no further than Wolves to see how long it can take to build a title challenging team.
As was said earlier, we have had to walk a very thin tightrope following relegation as the club has not got the mega resources necessary to maintain salaries etc at their PL level.
In my view we have a team of honest hardworking professionals which can be moulded into a team to challenge, at least for a play off slot, it may not come this year though and we have to be realistic.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]the impression I get from the limited number of games I've seen is that our midfield is being consistently overwhelmed/bypassed for large periods, very worrying given the purchase of Bailey,
Our defending has improved I agree, but do we really need to give them so much to do?
Also the supply problem is still not sorted.
I completely agree with you that he is over positive in expecting some players to play out of position and others to step up Wagstaff being the case in point - he was clearly a country mile from this level plain for all to see, yet Pards seems surprised when he failed in the Cup, I don't blame him for giving youth a chance its just that he doesn't seem to be able to see the obvious.
Tactically I just can't stomach this nicking a goal, conceding posession and defending backs to the wall for the vast majority of the game - it can't do anything for confidence and must be very tiring, which will and has lead to injuries.
Bailey and Holland did well at the weekend, and I think most of their chances came from runs down the wings and attacking on the break when everyone was out of position. they also skied the ball and made earnshaw run onto it, which meant our defenders had no hope in hell of catching him. that was the first 20 minutes and then hudson and fortune got wise and stayed back as no one will catch earnshaw on a run.
Bailey was quiet for the duration of the 2nd half of the wolves game because wolves were probably given a brief to stop him at all costs, because thats where our creativeness was coming from. thats good play by wolves rather than bad play by us. even the top 4 sides have games where their midfield creator gets pushed out of the game by being marked.
what makes you think pards should have succeeded at something by now? I think your expectations are massivly unrealistic. pards has been here 2 years, not 10 years, we can't judge him on not a long period. he hasn't let us down, he hasn't had a chance to let us down, or do anything else.
what makes you think that robson and kinsella are ready? we have no idea what they do or don't do. I do'nt suppose you watch the reserves. I know its your opinion but what is it based on? just a hunch? just cos you like him? he's not sponsored on the kit page yet I don't think! can't be that loved! Everyone slated mervyn day for years because they felt obliged not to blame curbishley and day was a scapegoat, it was never peacock who got the criticism. we as fans knew nothing of how the back stage set up was run then, same as we don't know now.
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Pards was brought in at a high salary to either keep us up and or then get us promoted on 1st or 2nd attempt, cos he had a track record of getting clubs promoted. At the time I think it was very much the right decision. I don't think its unreasonable to expect him to achieve one of these things, and the view I am expressing is he isn't now going to, so why keep a high paid so called achiever with that in mind?
Regarding potential other men for the job (I don't just say Kins/Robbo) was that you should give someone else a go, because keeping Pards is pointless, so give it to someone else.
If you want to talk about Kins etc, why not? There is a huge swathe of Managers who weren't 'ready' but did well given the chance. They do have experience of managing/coaching after all - even that isn't essential. I'd rather have them in there learning their trade than Pards treading water for the next few years on a big salary waiting for bigger club to come in for him. I think Kins shows signs of being a very good leader somethine which if he could take to 1st team manager level would be a great asset.
I notice there is still no one who can actually say what Pards brings that is special, he is downright average in my view.
[cite]Posted By: tommo[/cite]4-5-1 away and no one scores against again.Four points out of six. But you think Holland achieves very little and is meant to be the creative player out there and should be replaced immediately?
If we're happy scraping by as a mid-table team then Holland de man
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Pards was brought in at a high salary to either keep us up and or then get us promoted on 1st or 2nd attempt, cos he had a track record of getting clubs promoted.
At the time I think it was very much the right decision.
I don't think its unreasonable to expect him to achieve one of these things, and the view I am expressing is he isn't now going to, so why keep a high paid so called achiever with that in mind?
Regarding potential other men for the job (I don't just say Kins/Robbo) was that you should give someone else a go, because keeping Pards is pointless, so give it to someone else.
If you want to talk about Kins etc, why not? There is a huge swathe of Managers who weren't 'ready' but do well given the chance. They do have experience of managing/coaching after all - even that isn't essential.
I'd rather have them in there learning their trade than Pards treading water for the next few years on a big salary waiting for bigger club to come in for him.
I think Kins shows signs of being a very good leader somethine which if he could take to 1st team manager level would be a great asset.
I notice there is still no one who can actually say what Pards brings that is special, he is downright average in my view.
firstly the track record of getting clubs promoted is probably slightly generous in his favour and he got west ham promoted at 2nd attempt.
what makes you write off this season already? the season is 2 months down and you're dooming us already? man u in the premership are 15th, reckon they're panicking yet?
I don't think pards is special, but why should people justify what he's done? he's been here 2 years, he may be being paid a bit who knows, how long is his contract anyway? and what the terms were?
I think sometimes you read peoples opinions as facts, or newspaper stories as factual and then a few weeks/months down the line you argue against them, when they were only opinions in the first place and not facts. I think no one can answer your question, because a> the majority of people dont think it needs to be asked - yet. b> people probably don't think he is as special as you perhaps think they do c> people aren't panicking 2 months into a season that we're not at the top.
i'd personally love to see kinsella manage us at some point - certainly not before he is ready, because I don't want to tread water for a couple of years i'd like someone who is capable at the time - of which you can never be sure, but i dare say pardew is more qualified at the moment in achieving promotion than kinsella. What is the rush? kinsella isn't 80. he can come and manage us in 15 years and be a hero then. i wouldn't want him to manage us when not ready, and people give him 2 years to do a job and then give up and move onto the next ex pro that they prefer because he was a crowd pleaser when he played for the club.
not panicking, results aren't too bad I simply think he'd found his level and that is mid table. My opinion is based on watching the teams he puts out for 2.5 years and seeing the results etc and everything else he gets up to.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]not panicking, results aren't too bad I simply think he'd found his level and that is mid table. My opinion is based on watching the teams he puts out for 2.5 years and seeing the results etc and everything else he gets up to.
what else he gets up to? are you stalking him as well? :-)
LOL I couldn't be arsed to list out his management failings again..
I am happy to take the criticism that I have high expectations (that Pards was hired at least initially to keep us/if not get us back to the Prem over the following 1-2 years) although I doubt that they are that out of line with the majority of Charlton fans.
I think Pardew will find it hard to get another job if we miss out on the playoffs again and were to get rid of him. Then again failure hasn't done Glenn Roeder or Ian Dowie any harm!
Too early for hypothetical what if questions, but I'm happy with his signings (excluding Fleetwood) this season, I think it will turn out alright in the end.
razil CommentTime23 minutes ago edited quote# 76
LOL I couldn't be arsed to list out his management failings again..
I am happy to take the criticism that I have high expectations (that Pards was hired at least initially to keep us/if not get us back to the Prem over the following 1-2 years) although I doubt that they are that out of line with the majority of Charlton fans.
Management failings? Are you some sort of management consultant then? Or maybe you're a qualified coach? What badges have you got?
And sorry to pish on that nice little bonfire you're building, but I don't think your own personal expectations are anywhere near that of the majority of Charlton fans who you seem to be assuming that you are speaking for.
I completely agree with Razil. We should hire our ex-player because he was a Charlton hero. I mean, it's worked elsewhere. Newcastle for example?
Come on Raz, "give someone else a go" ??? It's not a crane-arm grab-a-cuddly-toy arcade game!
And are people forgetting the very nature of this league? All it takes is a winning run and you're right in the mix. We haven't even passed the beginning of the season yet, and we're still doing alright.
Ha ha I was replying to Suze's comment about the expectations of the fan base with regards to Pards, and was merely suggesting they were higher that she suggested, why don't we do a poll on here - not that this is necessarily representative.
Management failings, I've never claimed to be anything other than a football supporter who's watched a lot of football over the years, nothing more.
And seeing as its a 'free country' and this is a football forum I'm giving my two penneth, most of which I've justified, and am very happy to continue to do so.
Comments
Our defending has improved I agree, but do we really need to give them so much to do?
Also the supply problem is still not sorted.
I completely agree with you that he is over positive in expecting some players to play out of position and others to step up Wagstaff being the case in point - he was clearly a country mile from this level plain for all to see, yet Pards seems surprised when he failed in the Cup, I don't blame him for giving youth a chance its just that he doesn't seem to be able to see the obvious.
Tactically I just can't stomach this nicking a goal, conceding posession and defending backs to the wall for the vast majority of the game - it can't do anything for confidence and must be very tiring, which will and has lead to injuries.
Mate if we criticise when we're losing games we get called reactionary, can't win eh.. I'd hardly call either result convincing, I think riding our luck would be kinder.
This is the old "glass is half full or half empty" scenario and I freely admit that like Pards I am in the former, whereas you are clearly in the latter.
So far we have played all three promoted teams and have taken 7 out of 9 points. All of these teams played organised, neat, passing football, having clearly had great seasons. Doncaster by all accounts completely outplayed Title favourites Birmingham in their previous game yet came up short.
There has been a huge change in playing staff over the past couple of seasons and Pardew is re-building. You can look no further than Wolves to see how long it can take to build a title challenging team.
As was said earlier, we have had to walk a very thin tightrope following relegation as the club has not got the mega resources necessary to maintain salaries etc at their PL level.
In my view we have a team of honest hardworking professionals which can be moulded into a team to challenge, at least for a play off slot, it may not come this year though and we have to be realistic.
Bailey and Holland did well at the weekend, and I think most of their chances came from runs down the wings and attacking on the break when everyone was out of position. they also skied the ball and made earnshaw run onto it, which meant our defenders had no hope in hell of catching him. that was the first 20 minutes and then hudson and fortune got wise and stayed back as no one will catch earnshaw on a run.
Bailey was quiet for the duration of the 2nd half of the wolves game because wolves were probably given a brief to stop him at all costs, because thats where our creativeness was coming from. thats good play by wolves rather than bad play by us. even the top 4 sides have games where their midfield creator gets pushed out of the game by being marked.
what makes you think pards should have succeeded at something by now? I think your expectations are massivly unrealistic. pards has been here 2 years, not 10 years, we can't judge him on not a long period. he hasn't let us down, he hasn't had a chance to let us down, or do anything else.
what makes you think that robson and kinsella are ready? we have no idea what they do or don't do. I do'nt suppose you watch the reserves. I know its your opinion but what is it based on? just a hunch? just cos you like him? he's not sponsored on the kit page yet I don't think! can't be that loved! Everyone slated mervyn day for years because they felt obliged not to blame curbishley and day was a scapegoat, it was never peacock who got the criticism. we as fans knew nothing of how the back stage set up was run then, same as we don't know now.
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought Pards was brought in at a high salary to either keep us up and or then get us promoted on 1st or 2nd attempt, cos he had a track record of getting clubs promoted.
At the time I think it was very much the right decision.
I don't think its unreasonable to expect him to achieve one of these things, and the view I am expressing is he isn't now going to, so why keep a high paid so called achiever with that in mind?
Regarding potential other men for the job (I don't just say Kins/Robbo) was that you should give someone else a go, because keeping Pards is pointless, so give it to someone else.
If you want to talk about Kins etc, why not? There is a huge swathe of Managers who weren't 'ready' but did well given the chance. They do have experience of managing/coaching after all - even that isn't essential.
I'd rather have them in there learning their trade than Pards treading water for the next few years on a big salary waiting for bigger club to come in for him.
I think Kins shows signs of being a very good leader somethine which if he could take to 1st team manager level would be a great asset.
I notice there is still no one who can actually say what Pards brings that is special, he is downright average in my view.
firstly the track record of getting clubs promoted is probably slightly generous in his favour and he got west ham promoted at 2nd attempt.
what makes you write off this season already? the season is 2 months down and you're dooming us already? man u in the premership are 15th, reckon they're panicking yet?
I don't think pards is special, but why should people justify what he's done? he's been here 2 years, he may be being paid a bit who knows, how long is his contract anyway? and what the terms were?
I think sometimes you read peoples opinions as facts, or newspaper stories as factual and then a few weeks/months down the line you argue against them, when they were only opinions in the first place and not facts. I think no one can answer your question, because a> the majority of people dont think it needs to be asked - yet. b> people probably don't think he is as special as you perhaps think they do c> people aren't panicking 2 months into a season that we're not at the top.
i'd personally love to see kinsella manage us at some point - certainly not before he is ready, because I don't want to tread water for a couple of years i'd like someone who is capable at the time - of which you can never be sure, but i dare say pardew is more qualified at the moment in achieving promotion than kinsella. What is the rush? kinsella isn't 80. he can come and manage us in 15 years and be a hero then. i wouldn't want him to manage us when not ready, and people give him 2 years to do a job and then give up and move onto the next ex pro that they prefer because he was a crowd pleaser when he played for the club.
6 weeks into the season and the panicky are panicking.
Lets see where we are at Christmas.
:)
what else he gets up to? are you stalking him as well? :-)
I am happy to take the criticism that I have high expectations (that Pards was hired at least initially to keep us/if not get us back to the Prem over the following 1-2 years) although I doubt that they are that out of line with the majority of Charlton fans.
:)))
I also agree that his signing of hudson and Bailey looks really good,
Too early for hypothetical what if questions, but I'm happy with his signings (excluding Fleetwood) this season, I think it will turn out alright in the end.
no Matt Holland is still here
;)
According to this he signed a 3.5 year contract which would take him (Pards) through next season as well.
I think its in pards best interests to do well for this club and i'm sure he's trying if not for the team and the club then his own self.
LOL I couldn't be arsed to list out his management failings again..
I am happy to take the criticism that I have high expectations (that Pards was hired at least initially to keep us/if not get us back to the Prem over the following 1-2 years) although I doubt that they are that out of line with the majority of Charlton fans.
Management failings? Are you some sort of management consultant then? Or maybe you're a qualified coach? What badges have you got?
And sorry to pish on that nice little bonfire you're building, but I don't think your own personal expectations are anywhere near that of the majority of Charlton fans who you seem to be assuming that you are speaking for.
Honestly, some people.
Come on Raz, "give someone else a go" ??? It's not a crane-arm grab-a-cuddly-toy arcade game!
And are people forgetting the very nature of this league? All it takes is a winning run and you're right in the mix. We haven't even passed the beginning of the season yet, and we're still doing alright.
which direction has the club gone since dowie left? forwards -backwards-sideways- or we're still 5th
Management failings, I've never claimed to be anything other than a football supporter who's watched a lot of football over the years, nothing more.
And seeing as its a 'free country' and this is a football forum I'm giving my two penneth, most of which I've justified, and am very happy to continue to do so.
Back to you..
:P
be happy with midtable mediocrity in this league
cos it could be worse we could be a league lower
NEXT!
:)