[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]Global transport actually makes epidemics less likely as people in the UK will already have been exposed to a virus whilst on holiday etc.
(I know what you're saying here but I'm not sure that is necessarily true in every case).
Drugs don't cause mutations. Drugs kill viruses but, as Charlie D said, those with the ability to resist the drug will survive and breed. So a new drug is developed and so on and on.
Drugs are our friends they just won't always work in every situation on every virus.[/quote]
I think the last statement is a bit naieve, drugs are made by huge corporations/multinationals who overriding interest is profit.[/quote]
Why naive? Drugs do work. Anti-biotics save lives every day. Every operation, every infection that we have we take drugs.
Many of us would have died in our childhoods or when ill 100 or even 50 years ago as the drugs weren't available. now we don't get the diseases of childhood that we saw when I was young (not that long ago). Measles, mumps, rubella. All can kill. Polio, smallpox now almost non-existant. Would my son have survived pneumonia at Xmas without drugs? Maybe, maybe not. With them he is now fine.
Yes, the drug companies are in it for money and they don't sell to the third world at fair or affordable prices to control HIV for example. Some drugs are over prescribed or not available but overall the world is a lot better place healthwise for the drugs we have now than it was in 1918.[/quote]
A lot of health improvements could also be to do with nutrition
Many drugs (that are our friends apparently) have side effects, thalidamide for example. Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about.
I am simply saying to say they are our friends is naieve. I don't dispute some of the more apparent benefits. If there weren't such huge profits being made I would be far more comfortable about it.
[cite]Posted By: Medders[/cite]Didnt the government do the same for bird flu? And look what happened there?!
No I think the Bird Flu "scare" resulted in a risk assessment which ended with the Government realising we were under-prepared for a flu pandemic, hence they have stockpiled retro-viral drugs for 30+M. They have now decided to increase that to 55M.
As I understand, this strain of the H1N1 virus is a mutated cross beween Swine Flu, Bird Flu and normal Human Flu and bears the characteristics of a potential pandemic virus because it's new and there is no natural immunity in the human population. When the H5N1 Bird Flu outbreak occured, this was the very scenario they were concerned about, namely that it would mutate with the human virus so that it can be transmitted human to human.
What worries me a little is the "crying wolf" issue which is hard to overcome. Sars and then H5N1 Bird Flu outbreaks didn't become a pandemic therefore people think its all complete overhype and it's never going to happen.
As SHG has said, (who I believe is in the medical profession), the fact that they have increased the tamiflu procurement suggests they are pretty worried. I'm not an expert but if this strain of virus is a mutated version of the H1N1 virus, then can we be certain of the drugs effectiveness? Anyway I remain concerned but not worried.
I'm voting B. There are so many national and international organisations who profit from whipping up hysteria that my cynical side is very suspicious of these kind of stories. I do have a nagging thought though that one day the 'big one' will strike and we'll virtually sleep walk into a 28 days later situation (ok probably not zombies) so i really do have bottled water and canned food stored in the shed and the shotgun buried under the decking.
[cite]Posted By: razil[/cite]A lot of health improvements could also be to do with nutrition
Many drugs (that are our friends apparently) have side effects, thalidamide for example. Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about.
I am simply saying to say they are our friends is naieve. I don't dispute some of the more apparent benefits. If there weren't such huge profits being made I would be far more comfortable about it.
Yes, nutrition makes a difference but it doesn't fight a virus.
You say "many" drugs have side effects. Do they?
Other then allowable side effects eg some drugs make you drowsy so don't drive while using them most drugs are now so well tested that disasters like Thamidamide are very rare. So I dispute your "many" drugs.
And saying "Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about." is a non-arguement. We don't know, there is no evidence that you have offered so it doesn't stand.
Why is it naive to point out that overall medical drugs have been a huge advance, have saved millions of lives and prevented much suffering? Therefore they are our "friends". They save our lives and the lives of our friends and families.
That someone is making a profit from them doesn't alter that. That is a criticism of the capitalism not medical chemistry. Surely you are the one being naive to reject drugs because you see them as sullied with dirty profit rather than just accepting them as the boon they are.
we are all F**ked !!!!!!!!!!!! fact it was in the gaurdian.
As said in the ther thread title "The pigs are gonaget you" !!!
on TV last night out of the 150 ish deaths of "swine fever" in Mexico only 7 yes 7 can 100% be confirmed as swine flu.
12,000 peple per year die of flu in th UK yes thats 12,000.
of course we all know the banks have f**ked us and Brown has put us in debt till the year 2085 but lets have a panic take peeps minds off our f**k ups.
can you believe sales of pork have dropped !! how in Gods f**king name can a pork chop give you flu ---------------- its bollox.
[quote][cite]Posted By: Henry Irving[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: razil[/cite][quote][cite]
A lot of health improvements could also be to do with nutrition
Many drugs (that are our friends apparently) have side effects, thalidamide for example. Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about.
I am simply saying to say they are our friends is naieve. I don't dispute some of the more apparent benefits. If there weren't such huge profits being made I would be far more comfortable about it.[/quote]
Yes, nutrition makes a difference but it doesn't fight a virus.
You say "many" drugs have side effects. Do they?
Other then allowable side effects eg some drugs make you drowsy so don't drive while using them most drugs are now so well tested that disasters like Thamidamide are very rare. So I dispute your "many" drugs.
And saying [i]"Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about.[/i]" is a non-arguement. We don't know, there is no evidence that you have offered so it doesn't stand.
Why is it naive to point out that overall medical drugs have been a huge advance, have saved millions of lives and prevented much suffering? Therefore they are our "friends". They save our lives and the lives of our friends and families.
That someone is making a profit from them doesn't alter that. That is a criticism of the capitalism not medical chemistry. Surely you are the one being naive to reject drugs because you see them as sullied with dirty profit rather than just accepting them as the boon they are.[/quote]
I don't reject drugs, never said that. I just don't believe they are always our friends, and I believe such a view is naieve. We disagree which is fine.
There are numerous drugs that have side effects - I didn't say they were all as devastating as thalidamide, however there is a new link found almost every year to a side effect of some drug or other.
Another example is Calpol which has now been linked to excema/asthma in childhood. Pethadine routinely given to women in labour until recently known to have impact on feeding and breathing of new born babies and is now found to be addictive.
A: Cancel
B: Go anyway, wearing masks, and stay indoors all the time
C: Go and have a normal holiday Go and visit people in hospital suffering from the flu
Lots of overreaction around ... on my flight back from frankfurt last night, half the passengers would look around every time someone as much as coughed! And there have not even been any cases in Germany yet!
As I have a heart condition and I'm no spring chicken, I'm naturaly somewhat concerned....if it really takes off I will do very little socialing and mixing with folk until it all blows over.
I'll also ask for some Tamiflu tablets, though going to the doctors surgery is always a bit of a gamble for me nowadays as half the punters in there are coughing and spluttering anyway!
A bit of advice...aircraft are just about the 'worst' places to contract airbourne viruses....the air is of course recirculated....if someone sneezes in row A then it will will hit row Z within minutes.
Try to avoid them at all costs if this becomes as big a deal as some are suggesting.
[cite]Posted By: stonemuse[/cite]Lots of overreaction around ... on my flight back from frankfurt last night, half the passengers would look around every time someone as much as coughed! And there have not even been any cases in Germany yet!
[cite]Posted By: stonemuse[/cite]Lots of overreaction around ... on my flight back from frankfurt last night, half the passengers would look around every time someone as much as coughed! And there have not even been any cases in Germany yet!
There 'will' be and pretty soon too!
Probably will, but my point is mainly about the overreaction.
Regarding airlines, if it gets worse then I will at least be able to forego my regular overseas travel and work from home instead!
I was surprised on any easyjet flight recently that they ban nuts (no not crazy people) from the flight entirely if someone with a nut allergy is on board, including m&m's - assume its carried on the a/c?
[cite]Posted By: stonemuse[/cite]Lots of overreaction around ... on my flight back from frankfurt last night, half the passengers would look around every time someone as much as coughed! And there have not even been any cases in Germany yet!
There 'will' be and pretty soon too!
Probably will, but my point is mainly about the overreaction.
Regarding airlines, if it gets worse then I will at least be able to forego my regular overseas travel and work from home instead!
Yes there is unquestionably a lot of overeaction....but it's as well to be prepaired if you're someone such as myself or quite simply very young or elderly.
If I was a normal healthy adult I wouldn't be too concerned....however many of the population aren't ...A...adults or B....(if they are or not elderly) in a good state of health....those are the folk who you 'all' must think about and are the ones at high levels of risk should this pandemic become a reality.....right now the jury is out!
[cite]Posted By: jimmymelrose[/cite]Meant to be flying to Mexico in 4 weeks.
Should we:
A: Cancel
B: Go anyway, wearing masks, and stay indoors all the time
C: Go and have a normal holiday Go and visit people in hospital suffering from the flu
????
go as normal, visit someone in hospital with it, take a sample, bring it back and stick it in the ventilation system at the Den and Selhurst park!
The problem intodays society is the Media and the manipulation of it by others is that we really don't know what the issue with 'Pig Aids' is untill it's been and gone...
1) The Newspapers exagerate to sell papers & get hits on their websites. A don't worry message doesn't sell as many copies as a we're all doomed (see the express link above) 2) Scientists & Stakeholders give their opinions, while many have an alterior motive to make their subject matter high profile thus securing more funding you can bet your ass there are a load of academics that will benifit from telling the 'worst case scenario' 3) The Government need to build up their damaged profile, what better way than lauding the NHS and their planning in the face of adversity, conveniently covering up the economic mess. 4) The corporations making the drugs, what better way than making this a major issue to get a massive goeverment contract? 5) The airtravel industry - 'our planes our safe & stop virusus passed on'. Automobile industry "planes are germ magnets, only cars are safe".
Personally for me i worry for my Young Daughter but think this thing will blow over into Nothing. Untill the Death rate increases in coutries outside of Mexico (the toddler that died in the UK was a visitor from Mexico and didn't contract the Virus in the US) i'll hold off building my bunker and cutting myself off from the world. Besides i've played a lot of videogame in my time if anyone is able to live in a post apocalyptic world where all the animals have turned ferral it's me.
Henry - what was the name of that TV show you were into last year where the population was wiped out?
Couldn't give a shit. Even if it DOES become a pandemic I'll stick it in the big box of assorted crap marked "Stuff I Can'T Do A F***ing Thing About" and get on with my life.
[cite]Posted By: T[/cite]2) Scientists & Stakeholders give their opinions, while many have an alterior motive to make their subject matter high profile thus securing more funding you can bet your ass there are a load of academics that will benifit from telling the 'worst case scenario'
Scientists give thier opinions based on research, the media dont understand it.
I dont think anyone will benifit from the worst case scenario
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]Couldn't give a shit. Even if it DOES become a pandemic I'll stick it in the big box of assorted crap marked "Stuff I Can'T Do A F***ing Thing About" and get on with my life.
What advice would you give those of us at a high risk level then Leroy?
2) Scientists & Stakeholders give their opinions, while many have an alterior motive to make their subject matter high profile thus securing more funding you can bet your ass there are a load of academics that will benifit from telling the 'worst case scenario'
..........
I think it's more the media who prefer to exaggerate for effect (and extra sales).
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]Couldn't give a shit. Even if it DOES become a pandemic I'll stick it in the big box of assorted crap marked "Stuff I Can'T Do A F***ing Thing About" and get on with my life.
What advice would you give those of us at a high risk level then Leroy?
[cite]Posted By: Leroy Ambrose[/cite]Couldn't give a shit. Even if it DOES become a pandemic I'll stick it in the big box of assorted crap marked "Stuff I Can'T Do A F***ing Thing About" and get on with my life.
What advice would you give those of us at a high risk level then Leroy?
Live each day like its your last.
Good advice for evryone ;-)
I did that for 58 years until I had my heart attack....I can assure you it changes your viewpoint.
Comments
(I know what you're saying here but I'm not sure that is necessarily true in every case).
Drugs don't cause mutations. Drugs kill viruses but, as Charlie D said, those with the ability to resist the drug will survive and breed. So a new drug is developed and so on and on.
Drugs are our friends they just won't always work in every situation on every virus.[/quote]
I think the last statement is a bit naieve, drugs are made by huge corporations/multinationals who overriding interest is profit.[/quote]
Why naive? Drugs do work. Anti-biotics save lives every day. Every operation, every infection that we have we take drugs.
Many of us would have died in our childhoods or when ill 100 or even 50 years ago as the drugs weren't available. now we don't get the diseases of childhood that we saw when I was young (not that long ago). Measles, mumps, rubella. All can kill. Polio, smallpox now almost non-existant. Would my son have survived pneumonia at Xmas without drugs? Maybe, maybe not. With them he is now fine.
Yes, the drug companies are in it for money and they don't sell to the third world at fair or affordable prices to control HIV for example. Some drugs are over prescribed or not available but overall the world is a lot better place healthwise for the drugs we have now than it was in 1918.[/quote]
A lot of health improvements could also be to do with nutrition
Many drugs (that are our friends apparently) have side effects, thalidamide for example. Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about.
I am simply saying to say they are our friends is naieve. I don't dispute some of the more apparent benefits. If there weren't such huge profits being made I would be far more comfortable about it.
No I think the Bird Flu "scare" resulted in a risk assessment which ended with the Government realising we were under-prepared for a flu pandemic, hence they have stockpiled retro-viral drugs for 30+M. They have now decided to increase that to 55M.
As I understand, this strain of the H1N1 virus is a mutated cross beween Swine Flu, Bird Flu and normal Human Flu and bears the characteristics of a potential pandemic virus because it's new and there is no natural immunity in the human population. When the H5N1 Bird Flu outbreak occured, this was the very scenario they were concerned about, namely that it would mutate with the human virus so that it can be transmitted human to human.
What worries me a little is the "crying wolf" issue which is hard to overcome. Sars and then H5N1 Bird Flu outbreaks didn't become a pandemic therefore people think its all complete overhype and it's never going to happen.
As SHG has said, (who I believe is in the medical profession), the fact that they have increased the tamiflu procurement suggests they are pretty worried. I'm not an expert but if this strain of virus is a mutated version of the H1N1 virus, then can we be certain of the drugs effectiveness? Anyway I remain concerned but not worried.
S.
Yes, nutrition makes a difference but it doesn't fight a virus.
You say "many" drugs have side effects. Do they?
Other then allowable side effects eg some drugs make you drowsy so don't drive while using them most drugs are now so well tested that disasters like Thamidamide are very rare. So I dispute your "many" drugs.
And saying "Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about." is a non-arguement. We don't know, there is no evidence that you have offered so it doesn't stand.
Why is it naive to point out that overall medical drugs have been a huge advance, have saved millions of lives and prevented much suffering? Therefore they are our "friends". They save our lives and the lives of our friends and families.
That someone is making a profit from them doesn't alter that. That is a criticism of the capitalism not medical chemistry. Surely you are the one being naive to reject drugs because you see them as sullied with dirty profit rather than just accepting them as the boon they are.
As said in the ther thread title "The pigs are gonaget you" !!!
on TV last night out of the 150 ish deaths of "swine fever" in Mexico only 7 yes 7 can 100% be confirmed as swine flu.
12,000 peple per year die of flu in th UK yes thats 12,000.
of course we all know the banks have f**ked us and Brown has put us in debt till the year 2085 but lets have a panic take peeps minds off our f**k ups.
can you believe sales of pork have dropped !! how in Gods f**king name can a pork chop give you flu ---------------- its bollox.
its bollox." - Quote Goonerhater
If a swine flu victim sneezed onto the pork chop ! ;0)
I remember reading the other day that the UAE has banned pork imports... seemed a bit odd
A lot of health improvements could also be to do with nutrition
Many drugs (that are our friends apparently) have side effects, thalidamide for example. Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about.
I am simply saying to say they are our friends is naieve. I don't dispute some of the more apparent benefits. If there weren't such huge profits being made I would be far more comfortable about it.[/quote]
Yes, nutrition makes a difference but it doesn't fight a virus.
You say "many" drugs have side effects. Do they?
Other then allowable side effects eg some drugs make you drowsy so don't drive while using them most drugs are now so well tested that disasters like Thamidamide are very rare. So I dispute your "many" drugs.
And saying [i]"Who really knows what modern drugs have caused, what side effects that we don't know about.[/i]" is a non-arguement. We don't know, there is no evidence that you have offered so it doesn't stand.
Why is it naive to point out that overall medical drugs have been a huge advance, have saved millions of lives and prevented much suffering? Therefore they are our "friends". They save our lives and the lives of our friends and families.
That someone is making a profit from them doesn't alter that. That is a criticism of the capitalism not medical chemistry. Surely you are the one being naive to reject drugs because you see them as sullied with dirty profit rather than just accepting them as the boon they are.[/quote]
I don't reject drugs, never said that. I just don't believe they are always our friends, and I believe such a view is naieve. We disagree which is fine.
There are numerous drugs that have side effects - I didn't say they were all as devastating as thalidamide, however there is a new link found almost every year to a side effect of some drug or other.
Another example is Calpol which has now been linked to excema/asthma in childhood. Pethadine routinely given to women in labour until recently known to have impact on feeding and breathing of new born babies and is now found to be addictive.
Anyway lets move back to the topic in hand eh.
Should we:
A: Cancel
B: Go anyway, wearing masks, and stay indoors all the time
C: Go and have a normal holiday
????
I'll also ask for some Tamiflu tablets, though going to the doctors surgery is always a bit of a gamble for me nowadays as half the punters in there are coughing and spluttering anyway!
A bit of advice...aircraft are just about the 'worst' places to contract airbourne viruses....the air is of course recirculated....if someone sneezes in row A then it will will hit row Z within minutes.
Try to avoid them at all costs if this becomes as big a deal as some are suggesting.
There 'will' be and pretty soon too!
Probably will, but my point is mainly about the overreaction.
Regarding airlines, if it gets worse then I will at least be able to forego my regular overseas travel and work from home instead!
No, it was public information film
http://www.bbc.co.uk/survivors/game_uk/pop.html
Yes there is unquestionably a lot of overeaction....but it's as well to be prepaired if you're someone such as myself or quite simply very young or elderly.
If I was a normal healthy adult I wouldn't be too concerned....however many of the population aren't ...A...adults or B....(if they are or not elderly) in a good state of health....those are the folk who you 'all' must think about and are the ones at high levels of risk should this pandemic become a reality.....right now the jury is out!
go as normal, visit someone in hospital with it, take a sample, bring it back and stick it in the ventilation system at the Den and Selhurst park!
1) The Newspapers exagerate to sell papers & get hits on their websites. A don't worry message doesn't sell as many copies as a we're all doomed (see the express link above)
2) Scientists & Stakeholders give their opinions, while many have an alterior motive to make their subject matter high profile thus securing more funding you can bet your ass there are a load of academics that will benifit from telling the 'worst case scenario'
3) The Government need to build up their damaged profile, what better way than lauding the NHS and their planning in the face of adversity, conveniently covering up the economic mess.
4) The corporations making the drugs, what better way than making this a major issue to get a massive goeverment contract?
5) The airtravel industry - 'our planes our safe & stop virusus passed on'. Automobile industry "planes are germ magnets, only cars are safe".
Personally for me i worry for my Young Daughter but think this thing will blow over into Nothing. Untill the Death rate increases in coutries outside of Mexico (the toddler that died in the UK was a visitor from Mexico and didn't contract the Virus in the US) i'll hold off building my bunker and cutting myself off from the world. Besides i've played a lot of videogame in my time if anyone is able to live in a post apocalyptic world where all the animals have turned ferral it's me.
Henry - what was the name of that TV show you were into last year where the population was wiped out?
For those of your bored try this - http://www.addictinggames.com/pandemic2.html
Scientists give thier opinions based on research, the media dont understand it.
I dont think anyone will benifit from the worst case scenario
What advice would you give those of us at a high risk level then Leroy?
..........
I think it's more the media who prefer to exaggerate for effect (and extra sales).
Live each day like its your last.
Good advice for evryone ;-)
http://www.doihavepigflu.com/
I did that for 58 years until I had my heart attack....I can assure you it changes your viewpoint.
........
Stay away from large crowds - so you should be ok at the Valley on Sunday.