I take any speculation about Jonjo with a pinch of salt. Unless the teams involved are West Ham or Liverpool. I only hope if he does go to Liverpool that a) we get decent money for him b) Gerard is still there for Jonjo to fulfill his dream of playing with him.
I love Jonjo to bits and i am gutted we havent seen more of him this season. But the thought of him being nurtured by Dalgleish? Thats surely something we cant begrudge the lad.
Good luck Jonjo, whatever you decide to do. Remember that you'll always be fondly remembered by us & followed with enthusiasm wherever you go xxxx
I agree that bad decisions have been made and we are all suffering now because of that. The reason I support Charlton is because of the way we produce players like Walsh,Elliot,Lee,Bowyer,Rufus,Parker and many others. At the moment we have five certain prospects,Shelvey,Basey and Wagstaffe plus the two keepers.Playing at this level will improve all them except maybe Shelvey who's game is more suited to a higher level.Having said that he is far from the finished product but I am convinced that he will make the grade.
Liverpool are pretty broke I thought, so whether they'll splash out £3m on an untested League One player remains to be seen.
Though if they did offer £3m I'd take it. We're never going to see the best of him here, he has hardly played so it's not going to be like losing a regular first team player. I also don't think from what I've seen is good enough for Premier League level currently
Well good luck to the lad whatever happens....I'm just saddened that as a club we can't offer him the very best for him right at this moment in time. Though exactly what 'things are at this precise moment in time' is far from clear.
These next few games are going to be vital to the club in order that we can retain our best players....no doubt a few will be casting their collective eyes elsewhere and in all honesty who can blame them.
We've gone from being the No1 club in SE London (and by some distance) to being the third best in what seems like the blink of an eye (at least as the league tables show that is)......and oh boy, how it hurts!
If it happens for the amounts mentioned, it would be a joke, because he will blossom into quite some player, as will his financial worth.
Here we are, in the throes of some long overdue bit of success, yet in the usual Charlton tradition, we’re speculating whether our latest asset should be sold….
Does the “takeover thread” contain any glimmer of hope yet?
My mate saw him in ''West Ham superstore'' at Lakeside, and his girlfriend told Jonjo through a megaphone that he'd be ''wearing the new strip next season anyways'' and not to pre-order it.
He has been poorly treated by Parkinson - wasting his time on the bench when lesser players have been selected instead. He must be regretting his decision to stay. When he goes, what little interest I have in this current team will go with him. I love this club and dislike this team.
Would anyone really blame him if he left ? I can see no reason to choose another season at Charlton over a big prem side for him. He made that decision last summer most likely on the basis that he would get more first team football with us - fool me once....
Back in the summer we were all (including Parky) delighted when he showed great loyalty in signing a new contract. We thought that he would play a big part this season. He was excellent last season playing at a higher level in a relegation team. He started off this season in great form and was instrumental in us winning the first five games. He lost form and needed a rest, but not for the remainder of the bloody season! I've seen him live only four or five times, but to me he has always looked a class above every other player on the pitch, even when he occasionally gives the ball away. How short sighted of Parky and the club if they have avoided playing him due to the fear of missing out on transfer proceeds. Getting back to the Championship and possibly keeping Shelvey would be worth far more than 3 million. If Parky hasn't played him for tactical reasons, well, in light of our recent form and lack of goals, it just makes Parky look a real mug. Is 3 million such a good deal anyway ? We sold Bowyer for a similar sum, but that was 14 years ago! I'd say Jonjo is a better prospect and taking 14 years inflation into account he should be worth far more.
[cite]Posted By: se9addick[/cite]Would anyone really blame him if he left ? I can see no reason to choose another season at Charlton over a big prem side for him. He made that decision last summer most likely on the basis that he would get more first team football with us - fool me once....
Wouldn't blame him at all after the loyalty he showed in the summer
To all of those who've said 'why would Liverpool want a kid who can't get into a league one team', i doubt they'd be buying him for now, but more for what he can/will do in the future. As with all young talents they'd be taking a gamble, for every Fabregas that makes it, there's a Cherno Samba who doesn't. Remember the fuss when Chelsea poached Woods and Taiwo from Leeds and were made to pay 5m compensation. Woods is now 20 and still in their reserves and Taiwo plays for Carlisle.
They'd be buying Shelvey for the future as they are with the other kid Sterling they've just bought. 2m for Liverpool isn't much, a club their size can afford to make gambles, if they don't pay off they just go out and buy the next bright young talent.
On our part if we can get 2-3m for him and maybe do a deal to get a Liverpool youngster on loan next season, then i think it'd be a good deal for us. I don't think we're in much of a bargaining position to get more, he rarely plays for us, and given the option of our bench or Liverpool learning off Gerrard i wonder where he'd want to go.
On Shelvey I have to agree with PaulWalsh79 in that whenever I've seen him in and around the ground he has been very polite and modest. One example is earlier this season (can't remember what game, but we didn't win!) someone said to him "You played really well today" and his answer was "Thanks, but we didn't win" - Great attitude and one some players a lot older than 18 seriously lack.
I think he has already developed as a player a lot this season (when we've seen him play), his positional discipline has improved and so has the defensive side of his game, so I'd assume someone is coaching him right. When Burton is fit and we're playing 4-4-1-1 I'd start him every time as the two of them have a superb understanding and create space for each other and the rest of the team. He always finds space for himself on the pitch no matter what, and that is a sign of a really great player.
I can see why Parkinson doesn't start him in a 4-4-2 or when Burton isn't in the team as he has struggled in the past to play in a flat four man midfield, but how is he supposed to learn how to do this if Parky won't even play him from the bench! I can't remember who said it on here, but given half a chance he could do well playing in the middle with Semedo in a 4-4-2. His passing is just brilliant and he has the capability of unlocking a defence with a single movement. Unfortunately some of our players are not intelligent enough to read these passes. I see him as a Carrick type player in the future, but with more goals.
Personally I really hope he stays with us, but like Uncle said, would you? He may be better off going to a Premier League club, staying there for a year so they can keep a close eye on his development and improve his game even more before loaning him out somewhere (hopefully back to us!). I just hope we don't seem him playing out of position at Brentford a couple of years down the line like Bostock.
However if Mother Teresa could boot a ball about even she would get cheesed off with seeing Racon picked ahead of her every week and doing not very much!
Jonjo must wonder exactly what he has to do to get a game.
With Forster, Burton and Sodje fit, i can't see Parkinson reverting to 1 up front again, and nor do i think he should.
So that leaves a 4-way fight for 2 centre mid spots between Semedo, Racon, Bailey and Shelvey.
Personally, i don't think JJ is there yet to play the 90 as a centre mid in the type of games we are playing at the moment. It seems the best fit would be a swap with Racon, which i think many on here would choose, but i can understand why the manager hasn't made it. I can also understand his decision by playing Bailey as a narrow left mid it gives us a more compact midfield in tight games (a similar situation with what Curbs did with Graham Stuart), though personally i would start Reid there.
As for the 'i love this club but hate this team' comment, don't think i could disagree more. Can't think of one player we have regularly playing that i dislike at the moment, which i have not been able to say for the last few years. By and large they seem an honest bunch of triers, and though someone like Sam may be inconsistent, i think its just a natural flaw in his make-up rather than a poor attitude.
Reluctantly I think he'll go if we don't get promoted, we'll need the money and the transfer fee will mean that we could keep Racon/Semedo/Bailey etc and those needs are greater than retaining a player of great promise but who won't be aregular in his best position - attacking midfield for at least another season.
His form when he has played this season has been patchy, but clearly he is going to be a hell of a player, having said that, we have no competitive reserve team football at the moment, for a player struggling with form this is essential, sadly and I hate to say this he is best served going elsewhere, ideally some of the money we get for him should be kept for new signings, although I dont hold outmuch hope.
[cite]Posted By: Uncle[/cite]Wasn't it last year that it was said stay here and play 1st team football or go and warm the bench for Chelsea.
Have to agree with this. I always felt that one solution might be to sell him to a club that could loan him back for a year, but I wonder how much goodwill has been burned over the last season. As things stand he may as well go to a club at the highest level possible and learn from better players/coaches/training facilites, it's not like he's sacraficing a starting place to do so...
the strange thing is - I think Jonjo would thrive in the Premiership as he would have more time and space and wouldn't have the sense of a lumbering muppet trying to hack him down all the time. A year of training with top quality players could make him something very special (imagine training with Torres, Gerrard and co all season as opposed to Burton, Racon etc - no disrespect to them but I know where I'd learn more.
He is a marked man in this league and as much as I'd love him to stay he is no longer a "kid" he's a young man and he does need to start getting more football.
I think we should wait and see what happens to Stevie G at Liverpool before a decision is made though as I understand Steveie G is one of Jonjo's favourite players and would probably be a large part of any decision.
Whatever he does in football he will always be remembered by us, certainly on here, as one of ours and we should take great pride in that.
don't blame him for wanting to move. the only reason he turned down chelsea and stayed with us was that he was given a guarantee of first team football - something he isn't getting. as long as at least half the money is used on new players then it will be best for everyone. we need to invest in the squad and without money we're looking at more freebies, rejects and loans. with a couple of mill and some good scouting we can get in 3 or 4 decent players.
[cite]Posted By: AFKABartram[/cite]Pretty much agree with what TRR has said above.
With Forster, Burton and Sodje fit, i can't see Parkinson reverting to 1 up front again, and nor do i think he should.
So that leaves a 4-way fight for 2 centre mid spots between Semedo, Racon, Bailey and Shelvey.
Personally, i don't think JJ is there yet to play the 90 as a centre mid in the type of games we are playing at the moment. It seems the best fit would be a swap with Racon, which i think many on here would choose, but i can understand why the manager hasn't made it. I can also understand his decision by playing Bailey as a narrow left mid it gives us a more compact midfield in tight games (a similar situation with what Curbs did with Graham Stuart), though personally i would start Reid there.
As for the 'i love this club but hate this team' comment, don't think i could disagree more. Can't think of one player we have regularly playing that i dislike at the moment, which i have not been able to say for the last few years. By and large they seem an honest bunch of triers, and though someone like Sam may be inconsistent, i think its just a natural flaw in his make-up rather than a poor attitude.
agree fully, I think all of the lads this year have worked there socks off for the cause and even the loans, which has not been the case before.
[cite]Posted By: roseandcrown[/cite]agree fully, I think all of the lads this year have worked there socks off for the cause and even the loans, which has not been the case before.
Agree with that, I think our position has really been down to a lack of quality at important moments rather than a lack of effort/interest in Charlton.
Agree fully with AFKA's views. I think all of our current squad are an honest, hard working bunch. As we have found out, though, we are a pretty average team this year. Unfortunately Shelvey has had to make way for more experienced players in a desperately tight division where sheer physical size seems to be the dominant factor. We are a pretty small team, height wise, and this has cost us badly in too many games. We have also badly missed a goal poacher like Andy Hunt or Clive Mendonca to snap up some of those many half-chances that we create. Deon Burton started the season well, but injuries have made him much less effective of late.
Jon-Jo would ultimately thrive in the Premier league, where players get far more time and are not constantly on the look out for somebody flying in to chop them down. I fully expect him to go in the summer, which will be very sad for us but is one of the unfortunate consequences of being stuck in the 3rd division.
Not so sure I agree with this cant play in a 4-4-2 when has he had the chance?
For me its his natural postion not playing off a loan striker. He needs the options in front of him to pick out the pass, not with his back to goal.
I would much rather he went and learned his trade in the middle, if he mistakes so be it. Racon should make way because he is none entity he dont score, create or particulary defend well. The only thing he possibly is is a better athlete which says a lot about todays game.
[cite]Posted By: LargeAddick[/cite]or lack of a decent manager, in my opinion.
He's a decent manager not much more, much like a lot of our players IMO. We don't have bad players but most are no better than the players at the clubs around us. People say Millwall players are harder working with less talent, but I just can't see that. They can score goals and defend well, that takes talent, more than just pure hard work and belief.
I'd also say some of the best players in the top 8 are better than some of our best players, likes of Hoolahan, Holt, Lambert and Kisnorbo in the team of the year, and others outside of it have that bit quality more to their game than our players. Our strikers certainly aren't better than those two (or most of the top 8 clubs strikers), and I doubt Leeds would take Sodje or Dailly over Kisnorbo. We'd all prefer Hoolahan to Racon wouldn't we?
Very few are true mid table Championship players I'd say, and I think that'll show in the next few seasons when we see where they all end up and how regularly they play.
[cite]Posted By: Red_Pete[/cite]We have also badly missed a goal poacher like Andy Hunt or Clive Mendonca to snap up some of those many half-chances that we create. Deon Burton started the season well, but injuries have made him much less effective of late.
That's played a part as well. Early on we were either playing Shelvey behind Burton, then McLeod with Burton, and later Mooney or Akpo with Burton. Other top 7/8 clubs have goalscorers and strikers with more to their game.
As much as I don't think Jon Jo has pulled up enough trees this season (Swndon away he was particularly poor) - there are other games such as Orient away and Wycombe away where he was THE driving force for the whole game.
He's just 17 and I think our expectations are very high for a player only just having his first full season and he's suffered from being moved around as others have had settled positions all season.
IF I was him, I'd go. Moving to Liverpool and learning from Gerrard is going to better for his career than learning of Bailey. He'll warm the bench at both sides at the moment - and I can't understand when we've HAD to win games he's not come off the bench much sooner - no 17 year old comes on and wins games in just 8 minutes.
I feel disappointed that we haven't given him more time to show his value - not saying Rafa Benitez is a genius, but he's won more silverware than Phil Parkinson ever will...
Comments
I love Jonjo to bits and i am gutted we havent seen more of him this season. But the thought of him being nurtured by Dalgleish? Thats surely something we cant begrudge the lad.
Good luck Jonjo, whatever you decide to do. Remember that you'll always be fondly remembered by us & followed with enthusiasm wherever you go xxxx
The reason I support Charlton is because of the way we produce players like Walsh,Elliot,Lee,Bowyer,Rufus,Parker and many others.
At the moment we have five certain prospects,Shelvey,Basey and Wagstaffe plus the two keepers.Playing at this level will improve all them except
maybe Shelvey who's game is more suited to a higher level.Having said that he is far from the finished product but I am convinced that he will make the grade.
Though if they did offer £3m I'd take it. We're never going to see the best of him here, he has hardly played so it's not going to be like losing a regular first team player. I also don't think from what I've seen is good enough for Premier League level currently
£3m might also keep us in business
These next few games are going to be vital to the club in order that we can retain our best players....no doubt a few will be casting their collective eyes elsewhere and in all honesty who can blame them.
We've gone from being the No1 club in SE London (and by some distance) to being the third best in what seems like the blink of an eye (at least as the league tables show that is)......and oh boy, how it hurts!
Here we are, in the throes of some long overdue bit of success, yet in the usual Charlton tradition, we’re speculating whether our latest asset should be sold….
Does the “takeover thread” contain any glimmer of hope yet?
I've seen him live only four or five times, but to me he has always looked a class above every other player on the pitch, even when he occasionally gives the ball away. How short sighted of Parky and the club if they have avoided playing him due to the fear of missing out on transfer proceeds. Getting back to the Championship and possibly keeping Shelvey would be worth far more than 3 million. If Parky hasn't played him for tactical reasons, well, in light of our recent form and lack of goals, it just makes Parky look a real mug.
Is 3 million such a good deal anyway ? We sold Bowyer for a similar sum, but that was 14 years ago! I'd say Jonjo is a better prospect and taking 14 years inflation into account he should be worth far more.
Wouldn't blame him at all after the loyalty he showed in the summer
They'd be buying Shelvey for the future as they are with the other kid Sterling they've just bought. 2m for Liverpool isn't much, a club their size can afford to make gambles, if they don't pay off they just go out and buy the next bright young talent.
On our part if we can get 2-3m for him and maybe do a deal to get a Liverpool youngster on loan next season, then i think it'd be a good deal for us. I don't think we're in much of a bargaining position to get more, he rarely plays for us, and given the option of our bench or Liverpool learning off Gerrard i wonder where he'd want to go.
You just need to make the highest bid on the Sticky about the auction for a place at the Kit Sponsors Evening.
I think he has already developed as a player a lot this season (when we've seen him play), his positional discipline has improved and so has the defensive side of his game, so I'd assume someone is coaching him right. When Burton is fit and we're playing 4-4-1-1 I'd start him every time as the two of them have a superb understanding and create space for each other and the rest of the team. He always finds space for himself on the pitch no matter what, and that is a sign of a really great player.
I can see why Parkinson doesn't start him in a 4-4-2 or when Burton isn't in the team as he has struggled in the past to play in a flat four man midfield, but how is he supposed to learn how to do this if Parky won't even play him from the bench! I can't remember who said it on here, but given half a chance he could do well playing in the middle with Semedo in a 4-4-2. His passing is just brilliant and he has the capability of unlocking a defence with a single movement. Unfortunately some of our players are not intelligent enough to read these passes. I see him as a Carrick type player in the future, but with more goals.
Personally I really hope he stays with us, but like Uncle said, would you? He may be better off going to a Premier League club, staying there for a year so they can keep a close eye on his development and improve his game even more before loaning him out somewhere (hopefully back to us!). I just hope we don't seem him playing out of position at Brentford a couple of years down the line like Bostock.
However if Mother Teresa could boot a ball about even she would get cheesed off with seeing Racon picked ahead of her every week and doing not very much!
Jonjo must wonder exactly what he has to do to get a game.
Or ask me , I'll do it not doing much else
With Forster, Burton and Sodje fit, i can't see Parkinson reverting to 1 up front again, and nor do i think he should.
So that leaves a 4-way fight for 2 centre mid spots between Semedo, Racon, Bailey and Shelvey.
Personally, i don't think JJ is there yet to play the 90 as a centre mid in the type of games we are playing at the moment. It seems the best fit would be a swap with Racon, which i think many on here would choose, but i can understand why the manager hasn't made it. I can also understand his decision by playing Bailey as a narrow left mid it gives us a more compact midfield in tight games (a similar situation with what Curbs did with Graham Stuart), though personally i would start Reid there.
As for the 'i love this club but hate this team' comment, don't think i could disagree more. Can't think of one player we have regularly playing that i dislike at the moment, which i have not been able to say for the last few years. By and large they seem an honest bunch of triers, and though someone like Sam may be inconsistent, i think its just a natural flaw in his make-up rather than a poor attitude.
He is a marked man in this league and as much as I'd love him to stay he is no longer a "kid" he's a young man and he does need to start getting more football.
I think we should wait and see what happens to Stevie G at Liverpool before a decision is made though as I understand Steveie G is one of Jonjo's favourite players and would probably be a large part of any decision.
Whatever he does in football he will always be remembered by us, certainly on here, as one of ours and we should take great pride in that.
as long as at least half the money is used on new players then it will be best for everyone. we need to invest in the squad and without money we're looking at more freebies, rejects and loans. with a couple of mill and some good scouting we can get in 3 or 4 decent players.
agree fully, I think all of the lads this year have worked there socks off for the cause and even the loans, which has not been the case before.
Jon-Jo would ultimately thrive in the Premier league, where players get far more time and are not constantly on the look out for somebody flying in to chop them down. I fully expect him to go in the summer, which will be very sad for us but is one of the unfortunate consequences of being stuck in the 3rd division.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-sport/football/article-23827984-jonjo-shelveys-pound-3m-parting-gift.do
For me its his natural postion not playing off a loan striker. He needs the options in front of him to pick out the pass, not with his back to goal.
I would much rather he went and learned his trade in the middle, if he mistakes so be it. Racon should make way because he is none entity he dont score, create or particulary defend well. The only thing he possibly is is a better athlete which says a lot about todays game.
I'd also say some of the best players in the top 8 are better than some of our best players, likes of Hoolahan, Holt, Lambert and Kisnorbo in the team of the year, and others outside of it have that bit quality more to their game than our players. Our strikers certainly aren't better than those two (or most of the top 8 clubs strikers), and I doubt Leeds would take Sodje or Dailly over Kisnorbo. We'd all prefer Hoolahan to Racon wouldn't we?
Very few are true mid table Championship players I'd say, and I think that'll show in the next few seasons when we see where they all end up and how regularly they play.
That's played a part as well. Early on we were either playing Shelvey behind Burton, then McLeod with Burton, and later Mooney or Akpo with Burton. Other top 7/8 clubs have goalscorers and strikers with more to their game.
He's just 17 and I think our expectations are very high for a player only just having his first full season and he's suffered from being moved around as others have had settled positions all season.
IF I was him, I'd go. Moving to Liverpool and learning from Gerrard is going to better for his career than learning of Bailey. He'll warm the bench at both sides at the moment - and I can't understand when we've HAD to win games he's not come off the bench much sooner - no 17 year old comes on and wins games in just 8 minutes.
I feel disappointed that we haven't given him more time to show his value - not saying Rafa Benitez is a genius, but he's won more silverware than Phil Parkinson ever will...