[quote][cite]Posted By: RedArmySE7[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite][quote][cite]Posted By: carly burn[/cite]Astounded by the support for labour on here.Years and years of crap and you want more.[/quote]
Agreed. I'd love to know what is it about the last few years of Labour government that has pleased them so much they want to vote for them again.[/quote]
I'm 24, I've managed to buy my own home, I have a decent job, whenever I need medical care it's good and free. I live in a multi cultural society where I am constantly learning from others different from myself. I drive a decent car and my area isn't too bad. My girlfriends Dad lost his job and was made bankrupt in the recession but managed to keep his home and family together due to Labour's influence. I'm happy with Labour, there are things I cannot forgive them for but my life isn't the grim picture that the press wish to make me think it is. If people's lives are truly terrible go ahead "Vote for Change" but don't come crying when it bites you on the bum. If my life improves greatly under a new Government I'll be more than willing to hold my hands up and say I was wrong... I just can't see it happening.[/quote]
Don't fault your reasoning at all but I suspect that everything in the garden won't be quite so rosey for the next few years, no matter who gets in.
The question is do you trust labour to get us out of the the hole they have puts us in. I don't and for that reason won't be voting for them.
Hate the two main parties, so am voting Lib Dem even though I don't agree with half their policies. But four more years of staggering Labour incompetence or four years of wishy washy poshy Tory guff (basically, making already rich people much richer, it's what they do) do not appeal in the slightest. Anything that kicks both of them up the jacksie is good enough for me.
[cite]Posted By: ShootersHillGuru[/cite]Voted Labour. If I really wanted this country run on the same basis as it was 300 years ago ie by the aristocracy I would have voted Tory. Cameron and his cabinet, should the worst happen are predominantly Old Etonians. Not for me.
And i bet you think labour have the needs of the great working class at it's heart.I know i used to.
I still can't understand the 'I will never vote for toffs' line, which century are these people living in. There are as many toffs in labour as in the two older parties nowadays. Whilst I cannot fault the socialist ideals of labour, reality tends to be different and unfortunately you can throw money at problem people in our society as much as you like, but as has been shown over the last 13 years it makes little difference to those it is aimed at. Whilst sure start is a good idea, the reality is that it is generally used by those better off and fails to reach the target audience sufficiently in mixed socio economic areas. Personally I would keep it, but only in areas where there is a real need. My little boy goes to one locally, but none of the parents who use it are the target audience, it is used by families like mine because it is free and well funded play/learning for Dowman jnr, not because we need it. The same applies to tax credits. Why not just refuse taxes at the lower end, it seems like a job creation scheme to tax and then make people claim it back, what is the point of that? Maybe it is just a job creation scheme. Other ways you could save huge sums of money in central government would be to abolish NI, it is tax anyway so why not amalgamate it with tax and make employers pay a contribution to that, another sector of the treasury that is pointless. Finally, just stop child benefit altogether, if those at the lower end of the spectrum need help then it should be done through income support, tax credits should go and be paid through income support as the name suggests. If you want to inventicise children being born then do it through the tax system as well. Why are there so many govt departments all doing the same thing? Job protection in the labour heartlands I can only deduce, hence the chancellors statement that 35000 more public sector jobs will leave London. An appeal to their northern heartlands I suppose, or Jerrymandering as it is correctly called.
Too many other areas of public sector waste to list them all here. Or investments as the labour party calls them.
voted labour all my life,not about to change now . I;m old enough to remember the demon Thatcher and how she and her cohorts destroyed our manufacuring base and turned our country into a state reliant upon the service industry and 'merchant bankers' (yes i do understand rythming slang) and sold the family silver along with the housing stock that most working people needed.
Found the below after getting the impression that folk still regard all Tories to be Toffs and Labour are all working class heroes out for the good of the little man:
"Since class war is all the rage now for Labour, I've compiled a list of (known) privately-educated Labour MPs. Some will be standing down, but those who aren't you should punish by voting for someone else - even if you support the Labour government, because that government seems to be saying David Cameron et al are unable to think for ordinary people, yet are quite at ease being in a party with a disproportionately high number of old public schoolboys themselves! Labour even have an old Etonian (Mark Fisher). Here's the list:
Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood)
Hugh Bayley (City of York)
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central)
Bob Blizzard (Waveney)
Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
Stephen Byers (North Tyneside)
Charles Clarke (Norwich South)
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)
Jim Cousins (Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central)
Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West)
Quentin Davies (Grantham and Stamford)
Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)
Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire)
Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
Barry Gardiner (Brent North)
Linda Gilroy (Plymouth Sutton)
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East)
Peter Hain (Neath)
Patrick Hall (Bedford and Kempston)
Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East)
Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham)
John Healey (Wentworth)
Margaret Hodge (Barking)
Geoff Hoon (Ashfield)
Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)
Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood)
Sally Keeble (Northampton North)
Ruth Kelly (Bolton West)
Jim Knight (South Dorset)
Ivan Lewis (South Bury)
Martin Linton (Battersea)
Ian Lucas (Wrexham)
Denis MacShane (Rotherham)
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough)
Judy Mallaber (Amber Valley)
John Mann (Bassetlaw)
Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South)
Bob Marshall-Andrews (Medway)
Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton)
Chris Mole (Ipswich)
Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)
Doug Naysmith (Bristol North West)
Nick Palmer (Broxtowe)
Gordon Prentice (Pendle)
James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde)
Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich)
Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West)
Andrew Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush)
John Spellar (Warley)
Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes South West)
Howard Stoate (Dartford)
Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East)
Mark Todd (South Derbyshire)
Kitty Ussher (Burnley)
Keith Vaz (Leicester East)
Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North)
Michael Wills (Swindon North)
Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central)
Shaun Woodward (St Helens South)
Does anybody else notice the high frequency of past and present Cabinet members, as well as government ministers? I hope that isn't an admission that a private education makes one more able to do a job."
I'm not old enough to remember much earlier than the late 90's, but it seems to me that there's never been a point where people haven't said 'the country's in a mess'. Even in the early 2000s which are now wistfully looked at as the economic 'good years' I remember things often being referred to as disastrous.
Not being disingenuous here, but those who think Labour have ruined the country, can they pinpoint the time when it wasn't ruined?
[cite]Posted By: fastforward[/cite]voted labour all my life,not about to change now . I;m old enough to remember the demon Thatcher and how she and her cohorts destroyed our manufacuring base and turned our country into a state reliant upon the service industry and 'merchant bankers' (yes i do understand rythming slang) and sold the family silver along with the housing stock that most working people needed.
Just as an interesting aside: whilst people always go on about Gordon Brown costing us 8 billion by selling off our Gold at the bottom of the market compared to selling it today, technically by *not* selling it in the 1980s at the top of the market, Thatcher cost us upwards of 20 billion.
That's the thing with speculative markets. When Gordon Brown sold it the price had been falling for years and there was no guarantee it wouldn't keep falling. The price may fall again in the future and suddenly the stat will be that selling it when we did cost only 1 or 2 billion etc.
Sold the family silver, you really know nothing about economics fastforward. The family silver were things like well funded final salary schemes in the private sector which Gordon soon reduced to rubble, or selling our gold reserves off when the price was at its lowest, not selling utilities that were a drain on the public purse at the time and bought much needed relief from labour recession of the 70s was not selling the family silver unless you think everything should be owned by the state and a command economy was the way forward. You need to look at the surpluses this country enjoyed before labour came to power and the deficits now to see who sells the family silver. Most people grow out of the old 'I have always voted for labour, my father did and his father when he was being beaten by the pit owner for asking for xmas day off' mentality and wake up and see the reality, or get to evening classes and learn about economics. I was a socialist until soon after I entered work which bought me into contact with the feckless of deptford Lewisham and new cross and realised they would not help themselves if you threw money at them but needed a bit of encouragement to make something out of their lives without constantly looking for more handouts. RANT NEARLY OVER!
I am voting Tory simply because I run my own small business and Blair and his cronies have spent the last 13 years trying to put me out of business. All the red tape and jumping through hoops these days is such a pain, that no wonder retail is all but dead. Also working for the fire brigade I know what a shit state the country's emergency services are in. If you want a laugh find out about the cost cutting regional controls, yet another display of utter stupidity.
Local though I am Lib Dem.
But I understanding the abstentions, we need a none of the above box, but if you want to complain vote for a party that will never stand a chance and that way record your dislike of the major three
Sussex Addick, why sell it at all, thatcher did not sell as there was no need to, gold will always appreciate over time as scarce resources will always lead to more demand than supply. So why sell it when we didn't need to. Probably as Gordon was trying to push us into the euro but as usual lacked the cojones to go through with it. Now would be the time to sell, to help us out of our ever increasing deficit. All this blame of thatcher, all she was doing was sorting out labours last mess.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Sussex Addick, why sell it at all, thatcher did not sell as there was no need to, gold will always appreciate over time as scarce resources will always lead to more demand than supply. So why sell it when we didn't need to. Probably as Gordon was trying to push us into the euro but as usual lacked the cojones to go through with it. Now would be the time to sell, to help us out of our ever increasing deficit. All this blame of thatcher, all she was doing was sorting out labours last mess.
agreed, I also think that Thatcher was far from perfect but Tories have learnt as much from her mistakes as from that of the labour party, but she also did some good. How many people out there got onto the property ladder through Thatchers' 'right to buy'?
I'll be voting Lib Dem, partly out of disillusionment with Labour and partly because of my natural loathing for the Tories. I see a lot of people saying their poilicies are a joke, which I don't see myself at least they seem to be trying to find some fresh ideas to try and deal with some of our problems and I am particularly in favour of their stance on electoral reform beacuse to me it's not really democracy if your vote ends up meaning aboslutely nothing because you happen to disagree with all your neighbour's politics. Some of the Lib Dems policies are certainly no more far fetched that The Tories proposals for things like parents setting up their own schools and the voluntary sector stepping in to run the country (there simply won't be enough volunteers to go around)
I expect it'll either be return to the Tories where I live or the current Independent will keep his seat making my vote a wasted one I suppose, but I'd urge people to go and vote for who they believe in regardless of whether they will actually win or not. If we get a hung parliament (which would be the best outcome imo) and the ditribution of seats is totally incongruous with the actual proportion of votes given to each party, it will only seve to strengthen the hand of those who want to reform/replace the first past the post system.
will vote anyone that can do these Labour traitors the most damage. No true English man or woman should vote for em--end of.
as for the "posh" upbringing then maybe some need to realise that no less than 11, yes thats ELEVEN members of this Labour cabinet went to PRIVATE school. Bit like that nice Mr Cleg who went to a very very posh school
[cite]Posted By: Exiled_Addick[/cite]If we get a hung parliament (which would be the best outcome imo) and the ditribution of seats is totally incongruous with the actual proportion of votes given to each party, it will only seve to strengthen the hand of those who want to reform/replace the first past the post system.
problem is, a hung parliament will mean another election within the next year, more campaigning, more pollls, more revenue etc etc... basically costing the country millions at a time when we need to save money.
Maybe it's just me, Tories seem to complain about labour going on about what thatcher did. Then people criticise the liberals saying they are an old party and they were pro FPTP. Firstly it's the Liberal Democrats not the Liberals (who are still going) and secondly the party was formed from the SDP and the Liberal Party and since the Lib Dems were formed they have supported Proportional representation.
[cite]Posted By: Steve Dowman[/cite]Sussex Addick, why sell it at all, thatcher did not sell as there was no need to, gold will always appreciate over time as scarce resources will always lead to more demand than supply.
That isn't strictly true. One of Brown's problems with gold was how it just sat around rather than earning interest, and thus he aimed to sell it off and replace it with interest-bearing assets.
It's mainly people's emotional attachment to gold that has made this such a big issue. I'm sure a botched contract or trade agreement that cost more money would be forgotten very quickly, but this gold thing seems to constantly frame the debate about Brown's economic competence, probably because it's an easily digested fact that people can casually refer to in lieu of informed argument - 'Oh yeah, he's an economic disaster. He sold all our gold'
[cite]Posted By: sadiejane1981[/cite]agreed, I also think that Thatcher was far from perfect but Tories have learnt as much from her mistakes as from that of the labour party, but she also did some good. How many people out there got onto the property ladder through Thatchers' 'right to buy'?
Alternatively, you could take the view that Right To Buy led directly to the public sector housing shortage and then runaway house prices from the late 80's onwards meaning young people now have little chance at all of ever getting on the housing market.
[cite]Posted By: sadiejane1981[/cite]agreed, I also think that Thatcher was far from perfect but Tories have learnt as much from her mistakes as from that of the labour party, but she also did some good. How many people out there got onto the property ladder through Thatchers' 'right to buy'?
Alternatively, you could take the view that Right To Buy led directly to the public sector housing shortage and then runaway house prices from the late 80's onwards meaning young people now have little chance at all of ever getting on the housing market.
local councils were supposed to keep the revenue made from selling homes and use it to buy homes, hence making it a buyers and sellers market improving the economy. That didn't happen, local authorities got greedy and new council tennants suffered as a result. Not Thatcher's fault.
[cite]Posted By: sadiejane1981[/cite]agreed, I also think that Thatcher was far from perfect but Tories have learnt as much from her mistakes as from that of the labour party, but she also did some good. How many people out there got onto the property ladder through Thatchers' 'right to buy'?
Alternatively, you could take the view that Right To Buy led directly to the public sector housing shortage and then runaway house prices from the late 80's onwards meaning young people now have little chance at all of ever getting on the housing market.
local councils were supposed to keep the revenue made from selling homes and use it to buy homes, hence making it a buyers and sellers market improving the economy. That didn't happen, local authorities got greedy and new council tennants suffered as a result. Not Thatcher's fault.
Perhaps the local authorities needed that money for some other reason? Like to make up the shortfall in the centrally funded grant which was cut, year on year, by guess who? Except in Tory councils oddly enough how continued to get increased funding to prop them up...
In the UK we'd had affordability, stability and steady growth in the housing market for decades until Thatchers gov't decided to step in to win a few cheap votes by selling off the housing stock at knock down prices. Look at the state of the housing market since.
[cite]Posted By: sadiejane1981[/cite]agreed, I also think that Thatcher was far from perfect but Tories have learnt as much from her mistakes as from that of the labour party, but she also did some good. How many people out there got onto the property ladder through Thatchers' 'right to buy'?
Alternatively, you could take the view that Right To Buy led directly to the public sector housing shortage and then runaway house prices from the late 80's onwards meaning young people now have little chance at all of ever getting on the housing market.
local councils were supposed to keep the revenue made from selling homes and use it to buy homes, hence making it a buyers and sellers market improving the economy. That didn't happen, local authorities got greedy and new council tennants suffered as a result. Not Thatcher's fault.
Perhaps the local authorities needed that money for some other reason? Like to make up the shortfall in the centrally funded grant which was cut, year on year, by guess who? Except in Tory councils oddly enough how continued to get increased funding to prop them up...
In the UK we'd had affordability, stability and steady growth in the housing market for decades until Thatchers gov't decided to step in to win a few cheap votes by selling off the housing stock at knock down prices. Look at the state of the housing market since.
so I take it that you don't agree with Cameron's 10% equity after minimum of 5 years good behaviour and rent payments policy??
each to their own it's looking like a hung parliament at the moment which will cost us millions in new elections, I voted Tory already and. Like I said before people should vote for what they feel (after reading manifestos) will be good for them.
Obviously your elections are different than ours on the other side of the pond.
But one of the problems is similar: that the parties seem more interested in stopping the other than working together to actually get things done.
There have been some interesting articles on your election, about how a coalition government could actually be the best thing for Britain because it would break the gridlock and force parties to work together.
You have that possibility with three major parties, while we only have two (although independents outnumber both now by a sizable amount).
It is going to be interesting to see how the final results come out.
Comments
Agreed. I'd love to know what is it about the last few years of Labour government that has pleased them so much they want to vote for them again.[/quote]
I'm 24, I've managed to buy my own home, I have a decent job, whenever I need medical care it's good and free. I live in a multi cultural society where I am constantly learning from others different from myself. I drive a decent car and my area isn't too bad. My girlfriends Dad lost his job and was made bankrupt in the recession but managed to keep his home and family together due to Labour's influence. I'm happy with Labour, there are things I cannot forgive them for but my life isn't the grim picture that the press wish to make me think it is.
If people's lives are truly terrible go ahead "Vote for Change" but don't come crying when it bites you on the bum. If my life improves greatly under a new Government I'll be more than willing to hold my hands up and say I was wrong... I just can't see it happening.[/quote]
Don't fault your reasoning at all but I suspect that everything in the garden won't be quite so rosey for the next few years, no matter who gets in.
The question is do you trust labour to get us out of the the hole they have puts us in. I don't and for that reason won't be voting for them.
And i bet you think labour have the needs of the great working class at it's heart.I know i used to.
It doesn't!
I dont care whether my prime minister comes from Eton or Enfield as long as he knows how to govern properly.
Blimey anyone would think some of you lot are northerners...
Too many other areas of public sector waste to list them all here. Or investments as the labour party calls them.
"Since class war is all the rage now for Labour, I've compiled a list of (known) privately-educated Labour MPs. Some will be standing down, but those who aren't you should punish by voting for someone else - even if you support the Labour government, because that government seems to be saying David Cameron et al are unable to think for ordinary people, yet are quite at ease being in a party with a disproportionately high number of old public schoolboys themselves! Labour even have an old Etonian (Mark Fisher). Here's the list:
Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood)
Hugh Bayley (City of York)
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central)
Bob Blizzard (Waveney)
Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
Stephen Byers (North Tyneside)
Charles Clarke (Norwich South)
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)
Jim Cousins (Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central)
Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West)
Quentin Davies (Grantham and Stamford)
Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)
Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire)
Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
Barry Gardiner (Brent North)
Linda Gilroy (Plymouth Sutton)
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East)
Peter Hain (Neath)
Patrick Hall (Bedford and Kempston)
Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East)
Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham)
John Healey (Wentworth)
Margaret Hodge (Barking)
Geoff Hoon (Ashfield)
Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)
Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood)
Sally Keeble (Northampton North)
Ruth Kelly (Bolton West)
Jim Knight (South Dorset)
Ivan Lewis (South Bury)
Martin Linton (Battersea)
Ian Lucas (Wrexham)
Denis MacShane (Rotherham)
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough)
Judy Mallaber (Amber Valley)
John Mann (Bassetlaw)
Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South)
Bob Marshall-Andrews (Medway)
Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton)
Chris Mole (Ipswich)
Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)
Doug Naysmith (Bristol North West)
Nick Palmer (Broxtowe)
Gordon Prentice (Pendle)
James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde)
Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich)
Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West)
Andrew Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush)
John Spellar (Warley)
Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes South West)
Howard Stoate (Dartford)
Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East)
Mark Todd (South Derbyshire)
Kitty Ussher (Burnley)
Keith Vaz (Leicester East)
Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North)
Michael Wills (Swindon North)
Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central)
Shaun Woodward (St Helens South)
Does anybody else notice the high frequency of past and present Cabinet members, as well as government ministers? I hope that isn't an admission that a private education makes one more able to do a job."
Not being disingenuous here, but those who think Labour have ruined the country, can they pinpoint the time when it wasn't ruined?
Just as an interesting aside: whilst people always go on about Gordon Brown costing us 8 billion by selling off our Gold at the bottom of the market compared to selling it today, technically by *not* selling it in the 1980s at the top of the market, Thatcher cost us upwards of 20 billion.
That's the thing with speculative markets. When Gordon Brown sold it the price had been falling for years and there was no guarantee it wouldn't keep falling. The price may fall again in the future and suddenly the stat will be that selling it when we did cost only 1 or 2 billion etc.
RANT NEARLY OVER!
Local though I am Lib Dem.
But I understanding the abstentions, we need a none of the above box, but if you want to complain vote for a party that will never stand a chance and that way record your dislike of the major three
CLICK HERE
agreed, I also think that Thatcher was far from perfect but Tories have learnt as much from her mistakes as from that of the labour party, but she also did some good. How many people out there got onto the property ladder through Thatchers' 'right to buy'?
I expect it'll either be return to the Tories where I live or the current Independent will keep his seat making my vote a wasted one I suppose, but I'd urge people to go and vote for who they believe in regardless of whether they will actually win or not. If we get a hung parliament (which would be the best outcome imo) and the ditribution of seats is totally incongruous with the actual proportion of votes given to each party, it will only seve to strengthen the hand of those who want to reform/replace the first past the post system.
as for the "posh" upbringing then maybe some need to realise that no less than 11, yes thats ELEVEN members of this Labour cabinet went to PRIVATE school. Bit like that nice Mr Cleg who went to a very very posh school
problem is, a hung parliament will mean another election within the next year, more campaigning, more pollls, more revenue etc etc... basically costing the country millions at a time when we need to save money.
That isn't strictly true. One of Brown's problems with gold was how it just sat around rather than earning interest, and thus he aimed to sell it off and replace it with interest-bearing assets.
It's mainly people's emotional attachment to gold that has made this such a big issue. I'm sure a botched contract or trade agreement that cost more money would be forgotten very quickly, but this gold thing seems to constantly frame the debate about Brown's economic competence, probably because it's an easily digested fact that people can casually refer to in lieu of informed argument - 'Oh yeah, he's an economic disaster. He sold all our gold'
Their background may well inform their policies, but address those policies rather than the background
Alternatively, you could take the view that Right To Buy led directly to the public sector housing shortage and then runaway house prices from the late 80's onwards meaning young people now have little chance at all of ever getting on the housing market.
local councils were supposed to keep the revenue made from selling homes and use it to buy homes, hence making it a buyers and sellers market improving the economy. That didn't happen, local authorities got greedy and new council tennants suffered as a result. Not Thatcher's fault.
Fight fight fight
Perhaps the local authorities needed that money for some other reason? Like to make up the shortfall in the centrally funded grant which was cut, year on year, by guess who? Except in Tory councils oddly enough how continued to get increased funding to prop them up...
In the UK we'd had affordability, stability and steady growth in the housing market for decades until Thatchers gov't decided to step in to win a few cheap votes by selling off the housing stock at knock down prices. Look at the state of the housing market since.
each to their own it's looking like a hung parliament at the moment which will cost us millions in new elections, I voted Tory already and. Like I said before people should vote for what they feel (after reading manifestos) will be good for them.
to be fair if someone spits at you, they deserve a right hander.
he started it though
But one of the problems is similar: that the parties seem more interested in stopping the other than working together to actually get things done.
There have been some interesting articles on your election, about how a coalition government could actually be the best thing for Britain because it would break the gridlock and force parties to work together.
You have that possibility with three major parties, while we only have two (although independents outnumber both now by a sizable amount).
It is going to be interesting to see how the final results come out.