Worst thing Brown ever did after 97 was the first thing he did after 97, which was to remove the tax credit reclaim from pension funds. Because he was too dishonest to increase income tax, he instantly removed £5bn per year from private sector pensions. (Note his own pension is nicely funded by yours and my future earnings).
That 5bn per year for the last 13 years would have compounded nicely to something in the order of £100bn (£100,000,000,000) which is lost forever to private sector retirement funding, and contributed to the winding up of many final salary schemes, and has been pished away by Gordon on the ever expanding public sector cash drain (some might argue).
Schoolboy error, or wicked deceit? I know what I think.
to be fair if someone spits at you, they deserve a right hander.
he started it though
So??? give it back...dont spit at them. Lowest of the low that is. Plus its says 'on film' it starts with the candidate shouting to the youths.
that's what I meant, I'm sort of agreeing with you the candidate started it and he came off better cos he was kicking the Asian guy on the floor after punching him. (the Asian guy spat at the candidate though)
What an interesting thread. Pretty much everyone I know that's voting tory is that they seem to be basing their decision on spite. For example, I've got a couple of mates and some family members who've told me they are only voting for Cameron because the just.. "hate that Gordon Brown". When I ask them why they hate Mr Brown they invariably reply, "because of the economy", or "look at the 'effing state of this country!"
I know that personality plays a massive part in politics, but if so, why vote for David Cameron? As for the state of the country, I don't thing we are doing too bad given the global economic circumstances. For me I don't think the tories do enough to justify the claim that they could run the country better given that they are planning to do pretty much the same thing Labour are planning to do at the moment.
The problem is, in my opinion, if it really does come down to personality as much as policy, I find David Cameron utterly detestable. He's a snide man hiding right wing ambitions in order to pander to his party to the extent that I worry about the way this country is going. One key aspect to Cameron's politics is the way he's swung behind right wing nationalists in Europe, the way the old failures like William Hauge have been allowed to reinvent themselves in Cameron's dark shadow. I'm pretty sure that the Cameron regime will usher in a period of social decisiveness, simple minded nationalistic denial and destabilising financial policies the like of which has not been seen since the Thatcher period.
Hung Parliaments in Germany since the 40s, and it's done them no harm. It will do no harm to have a government which ios forced to listen to more than one point of view for a bit.
to be fair if someone spits at you, they deserve a right hander.
he started it though
So??? give it back...dont spit at them. Lowest of the low that is. Plus its says 'on film' it starts with the candidate shouting to the youths.
that's what I meant, I'm sort of agreeing with you the candidate started it and he came off better cos he was kicking the Asian guy on the floor after punching him. (the Asian guy spat at the candidate though)
lol...i dunno if you are agreeing with me tho. basically, im saying what nolly and JT are saying.
It's amazing how similar this election is to 1979 - an unelected, un-PR friendly Labour Chancellor taking over from a PM who stepped down... Just hope the outcome isn't the same.
I voted Labour this morning for the first time since '97. Brown et al HAVE made mistakes (Iraq, tax on pension funds, 10p tax rate, etc) over 13 years, BUT I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years far too clearly to ever want them back. I remember 3.5 million+ unemployed while there *wasn't* a global financial crisis. I remember 14% interest rates. I remember 3 kids crowding around a text book at school. I remember the riots. I remember working for £1 an hour in the 80s because there was no minimum wage. I remember the house price crash after the 1988 budget. All while the Tory press adored them like Saints.
Each to their own, I know. But given the state of the world right now, things could be - and still might be - a lot, lot worse.
my kids are at separate state schools, both have replaced tired old buildings with lovely new ones with excellent facilities andthere is no sharing of text books like in the 80s. I don't claim that the money on schools has been spent 100% efficiencty in 100% the right areas but it has brought about massive improvements that wouldn't have happened under the Torys who's only idea seems to be to take money from existing schools and use create state-funded private schools (ironically enough something similar in the Shadow Minister for Eductaion (Gove)'s constituency failed and had to be bailed out by the LEA.
[cite]Posted By: InCurbsWeTrusted[/cite]It's amazing how similar this election is to 1979 - an unelected, un-PR friendly Labour Chancellor taking over from a PM who stepped down... Just hope the outcome isn't the same.
I voted Labour this morning for the first time since '97. Brown et al HAVE made mistakes (Iraq, tax on pension funds, 10p tax rate, etc) over 13 years, BUT I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years far too clearly to ever want them back. I remember 3.5 million+ unemployed while there *wasn't* a global financial crisis. I remember 14% interest rates. I remember 3 kids crowding around a text book at school. I remember the riots. I remember working for £1 an hour in the 80s because there was no minimum wage. I remember the house price crash after the 1988 budget. All while the Tory press adored them like Saints.
Each to their own, I know. But given the state of the world right now, things could be - and still might be - a lot, lot worse.
I was too young then to know anything about it but if the Thatcher years were so bad how come she was elected again in 83 and 87?
[cite]Posted By: sadiejane1981[/cite]local councils were supposed to keep the revenue made from selling homes and use it to buy homes, hence making it a buyers and sellers market improving the economy. That didn't happen, local authorities got greedy and new council tennants suffered as a result. Not Thatcher's fault.
Yes it was 100% her fault, you are wrong I'm afraid. Thatcher didn't let councils build new homes, they had to set the money against their loans instead.
As for coalition governments, this is how 10 of the 16 AAA rated countries are run today. Hopefully 11 of 16 tomorrow :-)
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]I was too young then to know anything about it but if the Thatcher years were so bad how come she was elected again in 83 and 87?
she was I think the most unpopular PM in the history of polling until sunk the Belgrano as it sailed away from the Falklands; a lot of people liked that.
[cite]Posted By: Chris_from_Sidcup[/cite]I was too young then to know anything about it but if the Thatcher years were so bad how come she was elected again in 83 and 87?
she was I think the most unpopular PM in the history of polling until sunk the Belgrano as it sailed away from the Falklands; a lot of people liked that.
Fair enough that explains 1983, but what about her being elected again in 1987?
[cite]Posted By: InCurbsWeTrusted[/cite]It's amazing how similar this election is to 1979 - an unelected, un-PR friendly Labour Chancellor taking over from a PM who stepped down... Just hope the outcome isn't the same.
I voted Labour this morning for the first time since '97. Brown et al HAVE made mistakes (Iraq, tax on pension funds, 10p tax rate, etc) over 13 years, BUT I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years far too clearly to ever want them back. I remember 3.5 million+ unemployed while there *wasn't* a global financial crisis. I remember 14% interest rates. I remember 3 kids crowding around a text book at school. I remember the riots. I remember working for £1 an hour in the 80s because there was no minimum wage. I remember the house price crash after the 1988 budget. All while the Tory press adored them like Saints.
Each to their own, I know. But given the state of the world right now, things could be - and still might be - a lot, lot worse.
[cite]Posted By: InCurbsWeTrusted[/cite]It's amazing how similar this election is to 1979 - an unelected, un-PR friendly Labour Chancellor taking over from a PM who stepped down... Just hope the outcome isn't the same.
I voted Labour this morning for the first time since '97. Brown et al HAVE made mistakes (Iraq, tax on pension funds, 10p tax rate, etc) over 13 years, BUT I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years far too clearly to ever want them back. I remember 3.5 million+ unemployed while there *wasn't* a global financial crisis. I remember 14% interest rates. I remember 3 kids crowding around a text book at school. I remember the riots. I remember working for £1 an hour in the 80s because there was no minimum wage. I remember the house price crash after the 1988 budget. All while the Tory press adored them like Saints.
Each to their own, I know. But given the state of the world right now, things could be - and still might be - a lot, lot worse.
I was too young then to know anything about it but if the Thatcher years were so bad how come she was elected again in 83 and 87?
A fair question - one I've asked myself many times! It's difficult to describe the UK in the 80s to anyone too young or otherwise to have experienced it. Today, all 3 Parties seem to fight for the same middle ground, but back then politics were very devisive, combative and polarised. The newspapers had a LOT more influence then, pre-internet, than they do today. They were people's only written source of news, and the constant, unrelenting daily headlines critising Labour (who weren't the ones in power) I know scared a lot of people off voting for them. In 1983 there was Michael Foot, bless 'im, which was an absolute gift to Thatcher, and Kinnock in 1987 was hardly a PR dream... It took the Poll Tax (wiki it), which the Sun, Mail, Express, etc supported, and a new Labour leader (John Smith, who died) to sway enough people away from them.
[cite]Posted By: InCurbsWeTrusted[/cite]It's amazing how similar this election is to 1979 - an unelected, un-PR friendly Labour Chancellor taking over from a PM who stepped down... Just hope the outcome isn't the same.
I voted Labour this morning for the first time since '97. Brown et al HAVE made mistakes (Iraq, tax on pension funds, 10p tax rate, etc) over 13 years, BUT I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years far too clearly to ever want them back. I remember 3.5 million+ unemployed while there *wasn't* a global financial crisis. I remember 14% interest rates. I remember 3 kids crowding around a text book at school. I remember the riots. I remember working for £1 an hour in the 80s because there was no minimum wage. I remember the house price crash after the 1988 budget. All while the Tory press adored them like Saints.
Each to their own, I know. But given the state of the world right now, things could be - and still might be - a lot, lot worse.
I was too young then to know anything about it but if the Thatcher years were so bad how come she was elected again in 83 and 87?
... It took the Poll Tax (wiki it), which the Sun, Mail, Express, etc supported, and a new Labour leader (John Smith, who died) to sway enough people away from them.
Often wondered how much better things would have been if John Smith hadn't died ... great politician and may have meant we would not have had to endure New Labour under Blair or Brown.
[cite]Posted By: Salad[/cite]my kids are at separate state schools, both have replaced tired old buildings with lovely new ones with excellent facilities andthere is no sharing of text books like in the 80s. I don't claim that the money on schools has been spent 100% efficiencty in 100% the right areas but it has brought about massive improvements that wouldn't have happened under the Torys who's only idea seems to be to take money from existing schools and use create state-funded private schools (ironically enough something similar in the Shadow Minister for Eductaion (Gove)'s constituency failed and had to be bailed out by the LEA.
Agreed. My dad's a retired deputy head and he recalls that under the Tories they had to have constant budget meetings to scrape by the best they could. Funding increased hugely under Labour and in the last 13 years the school has been almost completely rebuilt.
As you say, it's obviously not all been spent efficiently, but the way that some people act like all the money has been squandered is unfair and untrue.
Labour put the country in such dire trouble in the 70s, needing a greek type bailout by the IMF, which is where we are again today, some things never change. Maggie got blamed for the pain she was forced to put the country through following years of mis management, by labour and a weak conservative governmentof the middle ground, much like Cameron will end up with. Both 70s labour and Tories were forced to try and prop themselves up with liberal support (sound familiar yet) but without a strong mandate from the electorate it was doomed to fail. This changed when a strong leader appeared who after a fairly narrow 79 victory was elected with a much stronger mandate to push through reform of the public sector. Deja vu to those of us old enough to remember the mess we were in back then, we are back to a country that is financially on its knees and I hope for a hung parliament until we get a leader strong enough to push through the required reforms, it won't happen in a hung parliament as no party wants to be seen to be making (needed) cuts to anything. So we will end up with an IMF bailout within a couple of years followed by a working class tory leader (Maggie was a grammar school girl) to help us out of labours mess again, or go greek.
Comments
That 5bn per year for the last 13 years would have compounded nicely to something in the order of £100bn (£100,000,000,000) which is lost forever to private sector retirement funding, and contributed to the winding up of many final salary schemes, and has been pished away by Gordon on the ever expanding public sector cash drain (some might argue).
Schoolboy error, or wicked deceit? I know what I think.
So??? give it back...dont spit at him. Lowest of the low that is. Plus its says 'on film' it starts with the candidate shouting to the youths.
that's what I meant, I'm sort of agreeing with you the candidate started it and he came off better cos he was kicking the Asian guy on the floor after punching him. (the Asian guy spat at the candidate though)
I know that personality plays a massive part in politics, but if so, why vote for David Cameron? As for the state of the country, I don't thing we are doing too bad given the global economic circumstances. For me I don't think the tories do enough to justify the claim that they could run the country better given that they are planning to do pretty much the same thing Labour are planning to do at the moment.
The problem is, in my opinion, if it really does come down to personality as much as policy, I find David Cameron utterly detestable. He's a snide man hiding right wing ambitions in order to pander to his party to the extent that I worry about the way this country is going. One key aspect to Cameron's politics is the way he's swung behind right wing nationalists in Europe, the way the old failures like William Hauge have been allowed to reinvent themselves in Cameron's dark shadow. I'm pretty sure that the Cameron regime will usher in a period of social decisiveness, simple minded nationalistic denial and destabilising financial policies the like of which has not been seen since the Thatcher period.
Hung Parliaments in Germany since the 40s, and it's done them no harm. It will do no harm to have a government which ios forced to listen to more than one point of view for a bit.
You don't spit
lol...i dunno if you are agreeing with me tho. basically, im saying what nolly and JT are saying.
I voted Labour this morning for the first time since '97. Brown et al HAVE made mistakes (Iraq, tax on pension funds, 10p tax rate, etc) over 13 years, BUT I'm old enough to remember the Thatcher years far too clearly to ever want them back. I remember 3.5 million+ unemployed while there *wasn't* a global financial crisis. I remember 14% interest rates. I remember 3 kids crowding around a text book at school. I remember the riots. I remember working for £1 an hour in the 80s because there was no minimum wage. I remember the house price crash after the 1988 budget. All while the Tory press adored them like Saints.
Each to their own, I know. But given the state of the world right now, things could be - and still might be - a lot, lot worse.
I was too young then to know anything about it but if the Thatcher years were so bad how come she was elected again in 83 and 87?
Well they did get us into it sensibly enough.
As for coalition governments, this is how 10 of the 16 AAA rated countries are run today. Hopefully 11 of 16 tomorrow :-)
Fair enough that explains 1983, but what about her being elected again in 1987?
Totally totally agree.
Anyone ?
A fair question - one I've asked myself many times! It's difficult to describe the UK in the 80s to anyone too young or otherwise to have experienced it. Today, all 3 Parties seem to fight for the same middle ground, but back then politics were very devisive, combative and polarised. The newspapers had a LOT more influence then, pre-internet, than they do today. They were people's only written source of news, and the constant, unrelenting daily headlines critising Labour (who weren't the ones in power) I know scared a lot of people off voting for them. In 1983 there was Michael Foot, bless 'im, which was an absolute gift to Thatcher, and Kinnock in 1987 was hardly a PR dream... It took the Poll Tax (wiki it), which the Sun, Mail, Express, etc supported, and a new Labour leader (John Smith, who died) to sway enough people away from them.
Often wondered how much better things would have been if John Smith hadn't died ... great politician and may have meant we would not have had to endure New Labour under Blair or Brown.
Agreed. My dad's a retired deputy head and he recalls that under the Tories they had to have constant budget meetings to scrape by the best they could. Funding increased hugely under Labour and in the last 13 years the school has been almost completely rebuilt.
As you say, it's obviously not all been spent efficiently, but the way that some people act like all the money has been squandered is unfair and untrue.