The question is not whether you think Parky should stay on as manager or be sacked or should resign. That has been discussed in other threads and with polls.
The question is this - do you believe that Parky is a good manager?
I am not so sure that those that have defended Parkinson consider him to be anything more than a mediocre at-best manager. A manager that we are stuck with because of circumstances/financial considerations.
I hear that he is a good bloke, is of sound character ... but never "he's a good manager" or that he is a "smart tactician" or even a "good man-manager."
It is more like 'he's all that we can afford' ... 'got to back him because we have no other choice with the current finances' ... 'Murray's not going to sack him, so we might as well back him' ... 'we can't get anyone any better with what we can pay, so we should keep him' ...
Those that would like to see the back of him seem much more adamant than those willing to keep him around.
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And for the record, I think he's a good manager
What I would like to know is why you believe he is a good manager.
What does he do that makes you enthusiastic about Charlton's present?
After any bad loss, people are going to be calling for his head.
Wins will quiet things down ... until the next loss.
Unless there is an enthusiasm for his tenure in-charge. That is what I'm trying to gage.
I thought it was really sad to read that some Charlton fans were hoping that the team would actually lose at Carlisle so that Parky would be sacked.
Whether we feel he is the man for the job, or not, you have to back the team.
We react to the latest result. We lost 4-0, so he has to go. We won away, so he's great. It is 'you're only as good as your last result' taken to absurdity.
AA, I think, is asking for a longer-term assessment. Forget league position, forget the last result. If you were starting a football club from scratch and you had a certain amount of money to employ a manager, would PP be on your shortlist?
As often, though, there is no simple answer to the PP enigma for there are many criteria on which you judge a manager.
Good eye for a decent player? You'd think that's a given for any scout or coach, let alone a manager.
Astute in the transfer market? Possibly. Some hits and misses, but that's always going to be the case. With limited funds,he appears to come out on the positive side of the equation.
Good on the training ground? We don't know.
Good planning /preparation/startegy? A few obvious holes here - not least his failure to find a role for our best player (Shelvey) last season.
Good tactician during a game? A number of glaring examples which suggest he's not quick thinking enough. The last home match being one of them.
Leadership/motivational skills? . He doesn't inspire the fans with his Ian Duncan-Smith ''do not underestimate the quiet man'' style. Perhaps it works in the dressing room, though. Again, hard for us to know.
Ultimately you are left with the record. Which over his tenure at several clubs is spotty, to say the least.
As I said, it is a good question and if people approach it in the right spirit, it offers an opportunity to debate the managership question objectively and without rancour or the usual 'ya boo sucks' sack him/we can't afford anyone else/we're still eleventh' nonsense.
The Brighton game (not the result) made me start questioning how tactically astute he can be, i think he got that one badly wrong.
Man management however i have no doubts at all. I have personally spoke to, or read articles from a number of different players in the past couple of weeks, and everyone of them have been noticeably complementary of Parky (without prompting and not just towing the party line).
Jackson and Reid both re-signed for him, having to take sizeable drops in wages and with better offers elsewhere. Dailly, who like Jackson has had a vast array of managers equally wanted to resign for him.
Quite simply, they would not do that if they thought he was a bad manager, and they work with the guy 6 days a week.
Why he is a good fit for Charlton?
A] A decent, well-respected professional - not like....
B] Excellent at getting value for money in the transfer market - unlike....
C] Demonstrably has the respect of the playing staff - unlike.....
D] Has played with and managed similar sized (Reading) and smaller (Colchester) clubs than us so he understands that we need to punch above our weight and how to actually do this and we don't keep on hearing - "When I was at....."
E] Stability is the key to success, all this knee-jerk "sack the manager" stuff is crazy, all that ever does is send you into a vicious circle of sackings and new appointments.
As soon as he failed as our caretaker manager after being set targets by the board, I was against Parky, I then changed my view when i saw the passion Parky has for the club, however that is not enough for a manager, I feel he is tactically inept, as Saturday has confirmed. All the players say he is a 'nice guy', well I'm sorry 'nice guys' do not make good managers! He couldn't even motivate the team when we played the Scum last season!!! Twice.
I would have loved to see Parky make it, I really would, however having seen quite a few matches this season, in my heart of hearts I dont think he will.
So no I do not think he is a good manager. If, and its a big if, I am wrong, then I am willing to publicly admit that I was wrong. I dont think I am though!
That said I am ashamed of the lot who wanted us to lose on Saturday just to give their views credence.
His ratio of win's to games played is better than Lenny's - albeit in a different division ;-)
As soon as he failed as our caretaker manager after being set targets by the board, I was against Parky, I then changed my view when i saw the passion Parky has for the club, however that is not enough for a manager, I feel he is tactically inept, as Saturday has confirmed. All the players say he is a 'nice guy', well I'm sorry 'nice guys' do not make good managers! He couldn't even motivate the team when we played the Scum last season!!! Twice.
I would have loved to see Parky make it, I really would, however having seen quite a few matches this season, in my heart of hearts I dont think he will.
So no I do not think he is a good manager. If, and its a big if, I am wrong, then I am willing to publicly admit that I was wrong. I dont think I am though!
That said I am ashamed of the lot who wanted us to lose on Saturday just to give their views credence.[/quote]
Tactically inept? That is a big call to make on someone who has been in the professional game for 25 years.
Look, the game on Saturday was a classic example of a team being behind and throwing caution to the wind and getting the breaks go their way - although we should have made it harder for them to do that by pushing further upfield.
Look at the goals on CAFCTV, the first two come from losing crucial headers in our own box - that's not a tactical issue it is down to individual errors and the third goal was a freak.
As for your comments about the Millwall games last season, well, I have to hold my hands up about the away game but the home game is a different matter entirely. We were 4-3 up in injury time when Basey (the only fit left-back we had) got done like a kipper and the shot went straight through Elliott at his near post - nothing tactical about that either.
In that same game against Millwall at The Valley we were 2-0 down and came back to lead - does that show a lack of motivation? How about out plethora of late goals this season?
To which one has to point out that he is in his eighth season of management. I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree. But if that is the case, he is a slow learner because that's longer than it takes to qualify as a doctor or surgeon and longer than it took Tolstoy to write War and Peace !
Tactically inept? That is a big call to make on someone who has been in the professional game for 25 years.
Look, the game on Saturday was a classic example of a team being behind and throwing caution to the wind and getting the breaks go their way - although we should have made it harder for them to do that by pushing further upfield.
Look at the goals on CAFCTV, the first two come from losing crucial headers in our own box - that's not a tactical issue it is down to individual errors and the third goal was a freak.
As for your comments about the Millwall games last season, well, I have to hold my hands up about the away game but the home game is a different matter entirely. We were 4-3 up in injury time when Basey (the only fit left-back we had) got done like a kipper and the shot went straight through Elliott at his near post - nothing tactical about that either.
In that same game against Millwall at The Valley we were 2-0 down and came back to lead - does that show a lack of motivation? How about out plethora of late goals this season?[/quote]
A perception of Parky is that he is tactically inept, it does not matter how many times he is defended, that is my view. RE the goals against on saturday they where incidents, players make mistakes, that does not take away the fact that he was tacticlly inept and we were lucky to win, why did he not shut up shop at half time? Make the oppo play. Also, I was at Millwall at home and it was toothless!! Parky should go!
Fair point, but is that based off the style of football we play or the quality of football in Division Three.
How many Division Three teams would you be happier seeing play regularly other than us ?
Says just about what I wanted to say.
He has bought good players in for the money and has definitely played a massive part in certain players re-signing contracts.
He has removed the "disruptive" element of the squad and stuck to his guns on them not causing any more trouble (Moo2 never played even when fans wanted him back last season)
He has clearly helped the younger players confidence (Waggy & Solly both look very capable now whereas they always looked out of their depth - some may argue we have found their level)
He is not perfect - I still think he is a little too loyal to Robbie and maybe Doc who both look as though they could use a week or two on the sidelines. He DID get the Brighton game badly wrong but provided he learns from it I am still happy for him to remain at the helm
Remember we are still only a few points from 2nd place
As soon as he failed as our caretaker manager after being set targets by the board, I was against Parky, I then changed my view when i saw the passion Parky has for the club, however that is not enough for a manager, I feel he is tactically inept, as Saturday has confirmed. All the players say he is a 'nice guy', well I'm sorry 'nice guys' do not make good managers! He couldn't even motivate the team when we played the Scum last season!!! Twice.
I would have loved to see Parky make it, I really would, however having seen quite a few matches this season, in my heart of hearts I dont think he will.
So no I do not think he is a good manager. If, and its a big if, I am wrong, then I am willing to publicly admit that I was wrong. I dont think I am though!
That said I am ashamed of the lot who wanted us to lose on Saturday just to give their views credence.[/quote]
Agree with Bibble.
To start, imo, anything less than promotion this season is a failure.
Parkinsons over cautious team selections and lack of tactical nouce in key games costs us promotion last season, of that I have no doubt.
The problem is that many of the mistakes that were being made last season are still being made despite the turnover of players, this to me implies there is something wrong on the coaching side of things.
I think that the rest of the season will follow the course of the games we have played so far, in some games we will be good, in some we will be dreadful, but we will be there or thereabouts because this is such a poor league.
However, in the key games near the end of the season, I think that Parkinson will be found wanting and this will ultimatly cost us again.
I'd certainly like to watch the kind of football Gus Poyet has got Brighton playing.
Tactically inept? That is a big call to make on someone who has been in the professional game for 25 years.
Look, the game on Saturday was a classic example of a team being behind and throwing caution to the wind and getting the breaks go their way - although we should have made it harder for them to do that by pushing further upfield.
Look at the goals on CAFCTV, the first two come from losing crucial headers in our own box - that's not a tactical issue it is down to individual errors and the third goal was a freak.
As for your comments about the Millwall games last season, well, I have to hold my hands up about the away game but the home game is a different matter entirely. We were 4-3 up in injury time when Basey (the only fit left-back we had) got done like a kipper and the shot went straight through Elliott at his near post - nothing tactical about that either.
In that same game against Millwall at The Valley we were 2-0 down and came back to lead - does that show a lack of motivation? How about out plethora of late goals this season?[/quote]
A perception of Parky is that he is tactically inept, it does not matter how many times he is defended, that is my view. RE the goals against on saturday they where incidents, players make mistakes, that does not take away the fact that he was tacticlly inept and we were lucky to win, why did he not shut up shop at half time? Make the oppo play. Also, I was at Millwall at home and it was toothless!! Parky should go![/quote]
Toothless at home against Millwall? That would be the game where we scored FOUR times and were in the lead until deep into injury time?
As for Saturday, it sounded like the players DID try and shut up shop and defended too deeply which allowed Carlisle to profit from the knock-downs and flick-ons from their direct approach.
It sounded like the BH&A game was one that Parky got wrong - and he put his hands up to that - but you have to differentiate between individual errors - as took place for two of Saturday's goals - and the wrong tactical approach.
Parkinson could not have got the tactics that wrong last season since we were only a point off automatic promotion and we are only three point off this season.
I feel that we will get stronger as the season goes on and that our front players Benson, Anyinsah, Abbott, Sodje, Martin, Reid, Wagstaff are about as strong as there is in this league as a unit, I don't see many others with that kind of depth.
I think at this level signing good players is less important than organising them and that's why I don't rate him. I also believe that his naturally cautious outlook isn't suited to the squad that we have; no amount of a lead is ever enough for us to sit back on, but we keep getting caught out.
Not true
I made my point about sats game in my earlier response. Did you read it? I understand that we stayed at 442 instead of 451, however they were hoofing the ball over the midfield, so why not bring on another defender? Like I say (again) Parky is tactically inept.
Millwall at home we let in four goals at home! The blame in all matches lies with the manager no one else! From training to team selection to tactics, Parky gets it wrong more times than he gets it right, regarding you comment about last seasons playoffs, with that squad you know and I know it should have been automatic promotion.
Anyway we can debate all day long, you think he is a good manager I think the opposite, at the end of the season we will have our answer. Like I say I hope I am wrong!!
Excellent posts in particular from Ormiston and AFKA
Yes he is a good manager given the state we have been in.
I am not a fan of his, but the reality of the standard of football, management, funding at this level means even a world class manager would struggle to rise above the norm.
Far too many of his loyal critics (and boy arent they vociferous) fail to realise that players at 3rd division level make horrible mistakes because frankly they arent all that good. This can affect tactics, as well as the atmosphere in which they play.
Players are more easily influenced by the crowd at this level. If you are doing your limited best and the fans are still on your back, you dont have the inner strength of the knowledge that the fans are wrong and you are in fact a good player who doesnt deserve the criticism.
Having spent a few seasons watching a lot of Bournemouth games when Charlton were in the top two divisions I was amazed that their fans were so tolerant of Sunday league defending in particular. Our fans would have been baying for blood, but their fans tended to wince and then get straight back behind the team.
Its all a matter of expectations, just as it was when we ludicrously thought we could be a European team.
What kind of a manager do you think Parky should be with the re building he has had to do on the funds available.
Did Sven transform Notts County. Would Fergusson know where to begin at this level?
The most virtuous action for us is to expect a bumpy ride, and stick with PP through the inevitable thick and thin and support him as he develops the skills required to take us forward. Loyalty is often rewarded.
The 0-4 loss to Brighton was just the cherry on top of a massive gateaux of crap performances we have all had to witness for a VERY LONG TIME now at The Valley... the fans' anger IS NOT because we lost one game to Brighton. Most fans have had enough of watching dire performances and inept tactics from the sidelines. By and large, us Charlton fans have been INCREDIBLY patient for 4 seasons now.
Getting behind your team: what does that mean exactly to those on here that say that? Singing the Red, Red Robin at the top of your voice? Or, clapping the manger and team even when they do not deserve it? Anytime I have been given a good rollicking from my Mum, Dad, Boss or anyone else I've accepted it, got my head down and done what is needed. Why do so many think that this team and manager wouldn't benefit from it a bit more often. I think we are entitled to say we have had enough now... who knows maybe it was those on here and at the stadium making noise that made the forwards pull their fingers out to score four away from home.
Even when we have won recently at The Valley it has hardly been deserved. Most of the teams that come to the Valley seem to be able to pass and play the ball to feet and create space on the ball. We do not! Nadou is not on his own here in saying that we are not enjoying turning up at The Valley to watch this type of football anymore. I hope we get a performance for 90 minutes on Saturday against Sheff Weds because Saturdays result has not convinced me at all due to the fact that we could easily have lost 4-3 after being 3-0 up.
I read a book about Football Management once called '90 minute Manager' ,here the argument was that each Manager has their level . I think Phil is good in League One ,but I reserve judgement about CCC and above .
I would therefore normally defend him on here , however football being a 'results business' means that mid table L1 is not good enough for Charlton and barring three or four defeats on the bounce or if we lose touch with the promotion pack then I think he will be here the whole of this season , but next season who knows.
I am drawn to Henry's analogy between Theo Foley and Andy Nelson if we do not at least make the play offs this season , but lets talk about that then and not now if we need to.
Away from Charlton taking Colchester up and putting them within striking distance of the Play Offs in the Championship was a great achievement on a minimal budget . I remember him being talked about seriously as Curbs's successor. He certainly could not have done a worse job than Dowie/Reed/Pardew.
At Hull it gets complicated . Like Craig Short's disgracefull sacking at Notts County I'm not sure he was given enough time although they were in the bottom three at the time of his departure. It is interesting that he left there by ' mutual consent'. It is worth considering that Hull were promoted 18 months later .
But what conclusion would that give us either he built a team and purchased good players which Phil Brown moulded into promotion winners or given time Parky would have achieved this himself.
Let's get behind him and reconsider things if things go wrong this season.
A football team, not a chance I'm afraid.
Really!?!?!?!?[/quote]
Ultimately Really!