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Qatar fails first test.
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Have to admit, I also struggle with the notion that as many as 6,500 have died directly as a result of the conditions.Not to suggest everything has been done all above board every step of the way, but that number does seem absurdly high. Is there sufficient evidence of 6,500 people?The way the country was handed the tournament will always wrangle with people, and I’ve always had a feeling in the back of my mind that many will latch onto any negative rumour they can.
The alcohol one is a common one. The suggestion constantly being made that alcohol is completely banned and nobody can have a drink etc. It’s not true. Yes, it’s more regulated than it would be in the West - but it’s something that people have just chosen to believe.0 -
The next World Cuo is part hosted to Mexico, one of the most dangerous and corrupt countries in the world. We will see the outcry then, nice beaches tho.1
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Same way there was little outcry when it was hosted in Brazil and Russia. Both marred by major societal/political issues - but very few complained about it in comparison to Qatar. Presumably because they have more of a footballing heritage as nations0
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Are you a professional twat or do you do it for a hobby?Taxi_Lad said:
How the hell can 6500 people die due to poor H&S standards???ShootersHillGuru said:
They died due to poor levels and standards of health and safety in the construction of the stadia and infrastructure required to host the World Cup. Absolutely fucking disgusting that this tournament was given to Quatar and those responsible for doing so are 100% complicit with those deaths. Appalling working conditions and at least 6500 deaths. Probably much higher.SoundAsa£ said:
Boredom.Taxi_Lad said:
Died of what??Lincsaddick said:old thread revisited .. according to today's 'Times' .. 'thousands' of migrant workers have died during the building of the World Cup stadia .. THOUSANDS !! .. even the ancient Roman emperors would have balked at that number .. too late now, BUT as we all know, what a disgrace it was to give this medieval country such a prestigious tournament
were they throwing themselves off like lemmings 🤷🏻♂️0 -
That’s the deal for every non national that works in Qatar, at whatever level. I know people that work for / worked for Qatar Air. You surrender your passport as part of your condition of employment, and have to apply for it back in order to travel. There are many other stories I have heard about working for Qatari businesses that suggest it’s not a place where you would want to be. Their getting the World Cup was perhaps the most disgraceful decision in sporting history.Garrymanilow said:
Yes, they take their passports so they can't leave and withhold their salaries making them, effectively, slaves. It's disgusting.JaShea99 said:Didn’t this story do the rounds a few years back with tales of workers having their passports taken etc?2 -
I work in recruitment for Banking and Finance and our biggest client is Qatar National Bank. We have contacts there that have been ex-pats there for years and they love it. Just anecdotal, but they obviously don't see a down side to it big enough to move away.SporadicAddick said:
That’s the deal for every non national that works in Qatar, at whatever level. I know people that work for / worked for Qatar Air. You surrender your passport as part of your condition of employment, and have to apply for it back in order to travel. There are many other stories I have heard about working for Qatari businesses that suggest it’s not a place where you would want to be. Their getting the World Cup was perhaps the most disgraceful decision in sporting history.Garrymanilow said:
Yes, they take their passports so they can't leave and withhold their salaries making them, effectively, slaves. It's disgusting.JaShea99 said:Didn’t this story do the rounds a few years back with tales of workers having their passports taken etc?1 -
The money is a bit of an upside…ValleyGary said:
I work in recruitment for Banking and Finance and our biggest client is Qatar National Bank. We have contacts there that have been ex-pats there for years and they love it. Just anecdotal, but they obviously don't see a down side to it big enough to move away.SporadicAddick said:
That’s the deal for every non national that works in Qatar, at whatever level. I know people that work for / worked for Qatar Air. You surrender your passport as part of your condition of employment, and have to apply for it back in order to travel. There are many other stories I have heard about working for Qatari businesses that suggest it’s not a place where you would want to be. Their getting the World Cup was perhaps the most disgraceful decision in sporting history.Garrymanilow said:
Yes, they take their passports so they can't leave and withhold their salaries making them, effectively, slaves. It's disgusting.JaShea99 said:Didn’t this story do the rounds a few years back with tales of workers having their passports taken etc?
female staff being told not to cross the road outside the head office.
harrasment and sexism / racism rife.
living secluded lives in gated communities where you need to jump through plenty of hoops to have a beer.
Don’t dare be gay.
try not to piss people off.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7942943/amp/Former-Thomas-Cook-Tui-director-52-hanged-four-star-hotel-Qatar.html
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Im not denying the obvious difference in social quality that we face, but im just challenging the notion that its not that place you want to be. If you're a working professional, then you can live a good life.SporadicAddick said:
The money is a bit of an upside…ValleyGary said:
I work in recruitment for Banking and Finance and our biggest client is Qatar National Bank. We have contacts there that have been ex-pats there for years and they love it. Just anecdotal, but they obviously don't see a down side to it big enough to move away.SporadicAddick said:
That’s the deal for every non national that works in Qatar, at whatever level. I know people that work for / worked for Qatar Air. You surrender your passport as part of your condition of employment, and have to apply for it back in order to travel. There are many other stories I have heard about working for Qatari businesses that suggest it’s not a place where you would want to be. Their getting the World Cup was perhaps the most disgraceful decision in sporting history.Garrymanilow said:
Yes, they take their passports so they can't leave and withhold their salaries making them, effectively, slaves. It's disgusting.JaShea99 said:Didn’t this story do the rounds a few years back with tales of workers having their passports taken etc?
female staff being told not to cross the road outside the head office.
harrasment and sexism / racism rife.
living secluded lives in gated communities where you need to jump through plenty of hoops to have a beer.
Don’t dare be gay.
try not to piss people off.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7942943/amp/Former-Thomas-Cook-Tui-director-52-hanged-four-star-hotel-Qatar.html0 -
I went to Qatar once I saw England play Brazil, 2009 ish I think
I came away from that one game thinking that football should never ever ever be played there, the locals were shocking
When normal England fans in a radisson hotel start getting kicked in for singing a few songs you know it’s an issue
I love following England all round the world but no chance I’m going there other than genuine final tickets
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Unless you are gay, or a woman, or an non national etc etc.ValleyGary said:
Im not denying the obvious difference in social quality that we face, but im just challenging the notion that its not that place you want to be. If you're a working professional, then you can live a good life.SporadicAddick said:
The money is a bit of an upside…ValleyGary said:
I work in recruitment for Banking and Finance and our biggest client is Qatar National Bank. We have contacts there that have been ex-pats there for years and they love it. Just anecdotal, but they obviously don't see a down side to it big enough to move away.SporadicAddick said:
That’s the deal for every non national that works in Qatar, at whatever level. I know people that work for / worked for Qatar Air. You surrender your passport as part of your condition of employment, and have to apply for it back in order to travel. There are many other stories I have heard about working for Qatari businesses that suggest it’s not a place where you would want to be. Their getting the World Cup was perhaps the most disgraceful decision in sporting history.Garrymanilow said:
Yes, they take their passports so they can't leave and withhold their salaries making them, effectively, slaves. It's disgusting.JaShea99 said:Didn’t this story do the rounds a few years back with tales of workers having their passports taken etc?
female staff being told not to cross the road outside the head office.
harrasment and sexism / racism rife.
living secluded lives in gated communities where you need to jump through plenty of hoops to have a beer.
Don’t dare be gay.
try not to piss people off.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7942943/amp/Former-Thomas-Cook-Tui-director-52-hanged-four-star-hotel-Qatar.html
I don’t deny that there are many that enjoy the benefits, but let’s not pretend it’s a benevolent environment…0 - Sponsored links:
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Ps if you work in recruitment, I hope you are doing a 4 day week and earning £150k…0
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what?SporadicAddick said:Ps if you work in recruitment, I hope you are doing a 4 day week and earning £150k…0 -
Apologies, you may not have read the “4 day week” thread…ValleyGary said:
what?SporadicAddick said:Ps if you work in recruitment, I hope you are doing a 4 day week and earning £150k…
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Unfortunately it’s very normal for people working abroad, things are much, much better now, but when I arrived in China maybe 50% of foreigners didn’t have access to their passports.Garrymanilow said:
Yes, they take their passports so they can't leave and withhold their salaries making them, effectively, slaves. It's disgusting.JaShea99 said:Didn’t this story do the rounds a few years back with tales of workers having their passports taken etc?0 -
No, trust me mate, i wish i was hitting those figures!ValleyGary said:
what?SporadicAddick said:Ps if you work in recruitment, I hope you are doing a 4 day week and earning £150k…2 -
What will be interesting in this tournament is the fact that they are expecting about a million people to visit (about 30% of the population of the overall country!).Southendaddick said:I went to Qatar once I saw England play Brazil, 2009 ish I think
I came away from that one game thinking that football should never ever ever be played there, the locals were shocking
When normal England fans in a radisson hotel start getting kicked in for singing a few songs you know it’s an issue
I love following England all round the world but no chance I’m going there other than genuine final tickets
The authorities know that the eyes of the world are on their country, and it is likely to be the biggest Qatari moment in history. I’d like to think they realise that they have to ensure that fans are looked after, as they can’t afford for this to be a PR disaster.0 -
I am sure it will be fine,much as they should not have got it,many people thought Russia would be a problem,but it did turn out to be one of the best tournaments I can remember.cafctom said:
What will be interesting in this tournament is the fact that they are expecting about a million people to visit (about 30% of the population of the overall country!).Southendaddick said:I went to Qatar once I saw England play Brazil, 2009 ish I think
I came away from that one game thinking that football should never ever ever be played there, the locals were shocking
When normal England fans in a radisson hotel start getting kicked in for singing a few songs you know it’s an issue
I love following England all round the world but no chance I’m going there other than genuine final tickets
The authorities know that the eyes of the world are on their country, and it is likely to be the biggest Qatari moment in history. I’d like to think they realise that they have to ensure that fans are looked after, as they can’t afford for this to be a PR disaster.1 -
Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
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Any deaths are unacceptable. How much you earn to hand over your passport is entirely a personal decision, as long as it’s made clear upfront, that’s fine, imo.Algarveaddick said:Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
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Thanks for your response Stu. As Tim Nice-But-Dim once said, "Can't say as I approve old boy, but I admire your honesty".Stu_of_Kunming said:
Any deaths are unacceptable. How much you earn to hand over your passport is entirely a personal decision, as long as it’s made clear upfront, that’s fine, imo.Algarveaddick said:Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
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Not suggesting that there is such thing as an acceptable number, but just a little reluctant to completely believe the 6,500 number is accurate without there being some sort of evidence of it being true.Algarveaddick said:Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
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Slept on it, and now think it should go ahead, otherwise all those people suffered for nothing.Gribbo said:Boycot it and play it elsewhere next year, f ck ittttt.
It was possible to change various international sporting events for Covid, so why not for this?
Be lovely to see FIFA and Qatar sort that one out n all
But would see love to see a mass mutiny against the governing bodies at some point (immediately after this tournament?) and don't reckon there's ever going to be a better reason than the deaths of so many.0 -
This is completely wrong btw. It is actually illegal here for your company to hold onto your passport. You definitely don't then have to apply for it back in order to travel. We are able to travel freely, but if you are a senior manager you may have to apply for your travel request if you are deemed critical for the running of a company, but this is limited to less than 5% of a companies workforce.SporadicAddick said:
That’s the deal for every non national that works in Qatar, at whatever level. I know people that work for / worked for Qatar Air. You surrender your passport as part of your condition of employment, and have to apply for it back in order to travel. There are many other stories I have heard about working for Qatari businesses that suggest it’s not a place where you would want to be. Their getting the World Cup was perhaps the most disgraceful decision in sporting history.Garrymanilow said:
Yes, they take their passports so they can't leave and withhold their salaries making them, effectively, slaves. It's disgusting.JaShea99 said:Didn’t this story do the rounds a few years back with tales of workers having their passports taken etc?1 -
What a strange thing to say. The numbers are compiled based on information recorded from embassies of the nations that the majority of the migrant workers are drawn from. That's the only way to draw them because Qatar don't want to share their information honestly. The numbers can only be drawn from certain countries, meaning that some large suppliers of migrant workers' death tolls can't be counted. So you're right about one thing at least: the number probably is wrong, because unless people from the Philippines or Kenya are immune to these sorts of deaths then the number of dead is likely significantly higher. The workers aren't just killed by falling off buildings like I think many assume, they suffer severe respiratory issues and heart strain working ridiculous hours in the Qatar summer, as well as suffering in horrific conditions in their provided accommodation. There have been suicides due to the conditions, and even an electrocution when a flood connected with exposed electric wires in a living area. I don't think the issue is that people are upset about the corrupt way the WC was awarded, I think it's more the other way around, that there are people who love a bit of football and would rather not think about the life cost that has gone into the sportswashing exercise (and Michel Platini's pocket) so wave it off and diminish it. I don't care about not being able to drink at a World Cup, I don't drink here, I would care about sitting in a seat put in place by a human rights abusing autocracy off the backs of thousands of dead humans so I can watch Harry Maguire fall on his stupid giant face thoughcafctom said:Have to admit, I also struggle with the notion that as many as 6,500 have died directly as a result of the conditions.Not to suggest everything has been done all above board every step of the way, but that number does seem absurdly high. Is there sufficient evidence of 6,500 people?The way the country was handed the tournament will always wrangle with people, and I’ve always had a feeling in the back of my mind that many will latch onto any negative rumour they can.
The alcohol one is a common one. The suggestion constantly being made that alcohol is completely banned and nobody can have a drink etc. It’s not true. Yes, it’s more regulated than it would be in the West - but it’s something that people have just chosen to believe.
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This is constantly in the news over here with Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch along with the local and foreign press. Not the most transparent either unfortunately.Algarveaddick said:Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
From what I can gather, the early numbers were taken from the general expat population statistics on deaths, so for example if a Nepalese worker died in his sleep it is included in the figures. However, there are clearly other examples where there have been fatalities on site.
As has been mentioned already, no amount of casualties are acceptable.1 -
Where abouts are you based then @QatarNapsy ?QatarNapsy said:
This is constantly in the news over here with Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch along with the local and foreign press. Not the most transparent either unfortunately.Algarveaddick said:Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
From what I can gather, the early numbers were taken from the general expat population statistics on deaths, so for example if a Nepalese worker died in his sleep it is included in the figures. However, there are clearly other examples where there have been fatalities on site.
As has been mentioned already, no amount of casualties are acceptable.0 -
Gribbo said:
Where abouts are you based then @QatarNapsy ?QatarNapsy said:
This is constantly in the news over here with Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch along with the local and foreign press. Not the most transparent either unfortunately.Algarveaddick said:Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
From what I can gather, the early numbers were taken from the general expat population statistics on deaths, so for example if a Nepalese worker died in his sleep it is included in the figures. However, there are clearly other examples where there have been fatalities on site.
As has been mentioned already, no amount of casualties are acceptable.
I'll give you one guess!!!0 -
the number can't be verified because of Qatar's secrecy, they have denied that number but have not tried to say how many have died or been seriously injured .. even if it was 650 who died putting the World Cup infrastructure in place, that would be unacceptable in any civilised country .. would 650 people dying in similar circumstances in the UK be acceptable ? .. of course it wouldn'tTaxi_Lad said:
How the hell can 6500 people die due to poor H&S standards???ShootersHillGuru said:
They died due to poor levels and standards of health and safety in the construction of the stadia and infrastructure required to host the World Cup. Absolutely fucking disgusting that this tournament was given to Quatar and those responsible for doing so are 100% complicit with those deaths. Appalling working conditions and at least 6500 deaths. Probably much higher.SoundAsa£ said:
Boredom.Taxi_Lad said:
Died of what??Lincsaddick said:old thread revisited .. according to today's 'Times' .. 'thousands' of migrant workers have died during the building of the World Cup stadia .. THOUSANDS !! .. even the ancient Roman emperors would have balked at that number .. too late now, BUT as we all know, what a disgrace it was to give this medieval country such a prestigious tournament
were they throwing themselves off like lemmings 🤷🏻♂️4 -
The cartels have a massive say in which music festivals can be held in Tulum etc. I'd imagine some money has crossed palms to ensure trouble is kept to a minimum during the WCValleyGary said:The next World Cuo is part hosted to Mexico, one of the most dangerous and corrupt countries in the world. We will see the outcry then, nice beaches tho.0 -
Some people aren’t in the financial position to be so fussy, unfortunately,Algarveaddick said:
Thanks for your response Stu. As Tim Nice-But-Dim once said, "Can't say as I approve old boy, but I admire your honesty".Stu_of_Kunming said:
Any deaths are unacceptable. How much you earn to hand over your passport is entirely a personal decision, as long as it’s made clear upfront, that’s fine, imo.Algarveaddick said:Some people seem to be reluctant to accept the 6500 figure and others appear to be happy with the notion that removing people's passports is fine if you pay them enough. Can I ask how many deaths they consider to be acceptable, and how much they think you should earn in order to accept the removal of your basic human rights?
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