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  • Taxi_Lad
    Taxi_Lad Posts: 3,774
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    old thread revisited .. according to today's 'Times' .. 'thousands' of migrant workers have died during the building of the World Cup stadia .. THOUSANDS !! .. even the ancient Roman emperors would have balked at that number .. too late now, BUT as we all know, what a disgrace it was to give this medieval country such a prestigious tournament
    Died of what??
    Boredom.
    They died due to poor levels and standards of health and safety in the construction of the stadia and infrastructure required to host the World Cup. Absolutely fucking disgusting that this tournament was given to Quatar and those responsible for doing so are 100% complicit with those deaths. Appalling working conditions and at least 6500 deaths. Probably much higher.
    How the hell can 6500 people die due to poor H&S standards???
    were they throwing themselves off like lemmings 🤷🏻‍♂️
    Are you a professional twat or do you do it for a hobby?
    No need to act like a prick
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,112
    cafctom said:
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    cafctom said:
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    I think fans going to this need a long hard look in the mirror.
    You won’t be watching any games on television then? 

    Where to even start with this? Criticising people going means I won't be watching it on TV? The sun affects people in strange ways.
    Start by answering the question?

    Your statement clearly suggests that those who attend are acting immorally. My guess is that is because it involves matchgoers handing money over to the organisation / country involved?

    Assuming you will be watching on television, is that not validating the tournament just in a more indirect, assimilated manner?

    FIFA made $4.6 Billion in 2018, and 49% of that came from broadcasting rights.

    If you expect people to boycott the product by not going, then why wouldn’t you do the same in your own way?

    I'm not going to visit a country due to it's terrible human rights record.
  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,078
    PragueAddick said:
    @QatarNapsy

    i'm wondering what ordinary fans will find to do when they are out there, other than sit by the hotel pool and drink beer, presumably Heineken, and presumably at an exotic price per bottle. And where will they eat? Like I said, ordinary fans, not well-off types on a hospitality jaunt paid by their companies.
    Sounds terrible.

    Given a lot of fans will be coming from much colder climates at that time, i'd guess that's probably exactly what they'd want to do. Sunbathe, eat, drink, maybe play a bit of golf.

    Also it's a world cup, so if you're going out there during the group stage there will be 3-4 games to watch every day. 
  • MillwallFan
    MillwallFan Posts: 3,355
    addick1956 said:
    MillwallFan said:
    Be interesting to see how much slavery (actual slavery that’s happening now, not 300 years ago) and black (and Asian) lives really matter to this current crop of footballers. 
    It will be over looked most likely 
    Yep, more than likely 
  • Garrymanilow
    Garrymanilow Posts: 13,213
    cafctom said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    cafctom said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    cafctom said:
    Have to admit, I also struggle with the notion that as many as 6,500 have died directly as a result of the conditions. 

    Not to suggest everything has been done all above board every step of the way, but that number does seem absurdly high. Is there sufficient evidence of 6,500 people? 

    The way the country was handed the tournament will always wrangle with people, and I’ve always had a feeling in the back of my mind that many will latch onto any negative rumour they can.

    The alcohol one is a common one. The suggestion constantly being made that alcohol is completely banned and nobody can have a drink etc. It’s not true. Yes, it’s more regulated than it would be in the West - but it’s something that people have just chosen to believe.
    What a strange thing to say. The numbers are compiled based on information recorded from embassies of the nations that the majority of the migrant workers are drawn from. That's the only way to draw them because Qatar don't want to share their information honestly. The numbers can only be drawn from certain countries, meaning that some large suppliers of migrant workers' death tolls can't be counted. So you're right about one thing at least: the number probably is wrong, because unless people from the Philippines or Kenya are immune to these sorts of deaths then the number of dead is likely significantly higher. The workers aren't just killed by falling off buildings like I think many assume, they suffer severe respiratory issues and heart strain working ridiculous hours in the Qatar summer, as well as suffering in horrific conditions in their provided accommodation. There have been suicides due to the conditions, and even an electrocution when a flood connected with exposed electric wires in a living area. I don't think the issue is that people are upset about the corrupt way the WC was awarded, I think it's more the other way around, that there are people who love a bit of football and would rather not think about the life cost that has gone into the sportswashing exercise (and Michel Platini's pocket) so wave it off and diminish it. I don't care about not being able to drink at a World Cup, I don't drink here, I would care about sitting in a seat put in place by a human rights abusing autocracy off the backs of thousands of dead humans so I can watch Harry Maguire fall on his stupid giant face though
    If you had properly read what I’d said, you’ll see that I pointed out that I was struggling to grasp the number unless there is direct evidence of it being as sizeable as reported. If indeed there is evidence, as you are alluding to, then of course it is an absolutely tragic outcome.

    I know there are a lot of people who are refusing to go to this World Cup for moral reasons, which I understand, and I’ve even had a couple of people question my decision for going. 

    If I’m being completely honest and transparent - of course a big driver is the fact that I simply want to go to a World Cup. I’m there to enjoy football, like pretty much everyone else. 

    But if we factor in the controversy/moral aspect of this, I also believe that positive societal change cannot be generated from the outside. 

    Will this World Cup bring about such change? That remains to be seen.

    Does a World Cup in empty stadiums really make a difference to Qatar? Those who preach to others about not going will still be sat at home watching it on the television helping to generate the major broadcasting revenue (the biggest money maker of all).
    I did read what you said, and the bit where you cast doubt on the numbers like you don't have the same Google that I do. This World Cup won't bring about any change as long as people continue to close their eyes to the facts, and question the reality because they'd rather not grapple with the truth. Positive societal change can't be generated solely from the outside, but pressure from outside foments the changes inside. If everyone just covers their eyes and ears then nothing changes at all, it's complacent to just shrug and say 'ah, nobody ever fixed anything by caring'. It's entirely up to you what you do with going or not, fill your boots, but I don't think it's helpful to claim ignorance when the facts are at your fingertips
    If I wanted to claim ignorance then I wouldn’t be in this thread willing to debate the issue. 

    I don’t believe every single thing I read via a Google search, or in the newspapers, or on social media - I’m sure you don’t either. 

    Not suggesting it hasn’t happened. But for a long time now, there are different numbers being thrown about and before you know it everything is taken as gospel. Has it happened to the scale that has been claimed? I don’t know. One source will say one thing and another source will suggest something completely different.

    Like I stated earlier, there were major political/societal issues surrounding the last 3-4 World Cups before this one and very few people wanted to talk about it. With Qatar being considered an ‘unattractive’ venue in a footballing sense, a lot of people will want to believe absolutely every rumour/statistic that gets put out there.

    I don’t agree with your point about change not being possible because people aren’t willing to question the reality. This very topic is pretty much on the lips of anyone who brings up the 2022 World Cup, and has been for years now. It’s not as if everyone is burying their head in the sand and not talking about it.
    What is it exactly you think you're trying to debate here? That killing migrant workers is ok? That the number of migrant slave workers killed could be in the lower thousands than stated so some football matches can happen? Of course you aren't. I think you've got all turned around here. I'm not aware of any legitimate sources claiming anything other than the numbers that are based on embassy records, which are as accurate as we can get given the repressive nature of the regime in question. This whole hand-wavy 'oh, we can't possibly know, sometimes Google is wrong' as if I just clicked the first page that came up and it was written by a 4 year old in Bognor Regis is just bad faith arguing. To be honest, everything you've said in that last post is just shrugging and hand-waving, and I've already said that if you want to ignore all this then that's up to you, I'm honestly not judging. Seems more like you've got your own stuff to work through on this. That's up to you, but I don't think refusing to look into it and throwing doubt on the numbers is going to do it for you.
  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    Taxi_Lad said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    old thread revisited .. according to today's 'Times' .. 'thousands' of migrant workers have died during the building of the World Cup stadia .. THOUSANDS !! .. even the ancient Roman emperors would have balked at that number .. too late now, BUT as we all know, what a disgrace it was to give this medieval country such a prestigious tournament
    Died of what??
    Boredom.
    They died due to poor levels and standards of health and safety in the construction of the stadia and infrastructure required to host the World Cup. Absolutely fucking disgusting that this tournament was given to Quatar and those responsible for doing so are 100% complicit with those deaths. Appalling working conditions and at least 6500 deaths. Probably much higher.
    How the hell can 6500 people die due to poor H&S standards???
    were they throwing themselves off like lemmings 🤷🏻‍♂️
    Are you a professional twat or do you do it for a hobby?
    No need to act like a prick
    My point exactly.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,165
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    PragueAddick said:
    @QatarNapsy

    i'm wondering what ordinary fans will find to do when they are out there, other than sit by the hotel pool and drink beer, presumably Heineken, and presumably at an exotic price per bottle. And where will they eat? Like I said, ordinary fans, not well-off types on a hospitality jaunt paid by their companies.
    Sounds terrible.

    Given a lot of fans will be coming from much colder climates at that time, i'd guess that's probably exactly what they'd want to do. Sunbathe, eat, drink, maybe play a bit of golf.

    Also it's a world cup, so if you're going out there during the group stage there will be 3-4 games to watch every day. 
    Well I’ve only once been fortunate enough to get tickets for a foreign World Cup once, for the 3rd place playoff in 2006 in Stuttgart. We tried different food, different beers, and wines, went shopping in Metzingen, and generally discovered what a cool city Stuttgart is. No time for the Mercedes museum. Most of all we enjoyed being engaged by locals, not all of them footie fans, and especially the night after the match where the celebrations went on til dawn, was unforgettable. In fact we all agreed that the match itself was the least interesting part of the weekend. But then I guess I’m just  a weirdo who likes to take an interest in the place he’s visiting, and the people who call it home, and my mates with me were two Scots and an Irish decent Chelsea fan of the when they were shit generation, who gleefuly “apologised” to all and sundry for the English fans who’d kicked off there two weeks earlier.

    Still wondering what anyone as weird as us would do in Qatar. My mates are golfers, but they can and do play golf any time. As for sunbathing, good luck with that. Gammon in 5 minutes. 
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,983
    Plenty are gammon before they set off
  • jimmymelrose
    jimmymelrose Posts: 9,757
    PragueAddick said:
    Chris_from_Sidcup said:
    PragueAddick said:
    @QatarNapsy

    i'm wondering what ordinary fans will find to do when they are out there, other than sit by the hotel pool and drink beer, presumably Heineken, and presumably at an exotic price per bottle. And where will they eat? Like I said, ordinary fans, not well-off types on a hospitality jaunt paid by their companies.
    Sounds terrible.

    Given a lot of fans will be coming from much colder climates at that time, i'd guess that's probably exactly what they'd want to do. Sunbathe, eat, drink, maybe play a bit of golf.

    Also it's a world cup, so if you're going out there during the group stage there will be 3-4 games to watch every day. 
    Well I’ve only once been fortunate enough to get tickets for a foreign World Cup once, for the 3rd place playoff in 2006 in Stuttgart. We tried different food, different beers, and wines, went shopping in Metzingen, and generally discovered what a cool city Stuttgart is. No time for the Mercedes museum. Most of all we enjoyed being engaged by locals, not all of them footie fans, and especially the night after the match where the celebrations went on til dawn, was unforgettable. In fact we all agreed that the match itself was the least interesting part of the weekend. But then I guess I’m just  a weirdo who likes to take an interest in the place he’s visiting, and the people who call it home, and my mates with me were two Scots and an Irish decent Chelsea fan of the when they were shit generation, who gleefuly “apologised” to all and sundry for the English fans who’d kicked off there two weeks earlier.

    Still wondering what anyone as weird as us would do in Qatar. My mates are golfers, but they can and do play golf any time. As for sunbathing, good luck with that. Gammon in 5 minutes. 
    I would recommend hiring a four wheel drive and go for a drive out in the desert. I did this in UAE and it was an unforgettable experience despite having driven all around Australia. The landscape and what you learn of the traditional culture was great. And the silence, I will always remember the silence. 
  • cafctom
    cafctom Posts: 11,373
    Garrymanilow said:
    cafctom said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    cafctom said:
    Garrymanilow said:
    cafctom said:
    Have to admit, I also struggle with the notion that as many as 6,500 have died directly as a result of the conditions. 

    Not to suggest everything has been done all above board every step of the way, but that number does seem absurdly high. Is there sufficient evidence of 6,500 people? 

    The way the country was handed the tournament will always wrangle with people, and I’ve always had a feeling in the back of my mind that many will latch onto any negative rumour they can.

    The alcohol one is a common one. The suggestion constantly being made that alcohol is completely banned and nobody can have a drink etc. It’s not true. Yes, it’s more regulated than it would be in the West - but it’s something that people have just chosen to believe.
    What a strange thing to say. The numbers are compiled based on information recorded from embassies of the nations that the majority of the migrant workers are drawn from. That's the only way to draw them because Qatar don't want to share their information honestly. The numbers can only be drawn from certain countries, meaning that some large suppliers of migrant workers' death tolls can't be counted. So you're right about one thing at least: the number probably is wrong, because unless people from the Philippines or Kenya are immune to these sorts of deaths then the number of dead is likely significantly higher. The workers aren't just killed by falling off buildings like I think many assume, they suffer severe respiratory issues and heart strain working ridiculous hours in the Qatar summer, as well as suffering in horrific conditions in their provided accommodation. There have been suicides due to the conditions, and even an electrocution when a flood connected with exposed electric wires in a living area. I don't think the issue is that people are upset about the corrupt way the WC was awarded, I think it's more the other way around, that there are people who love a bit of football and would rather not think about the life cost that has gone into the sportswashing exercise (and Michel Platini's pocket) so wave it off and diminish it. I don't care about not being able to drink at a World Cup, I don't drink here, I would care about sitting in a seat put in place by a human rights abusing autocracy off the backs of thousands of dead humans so I can watch Harry Maguire fall on his stupid giant face though
    If you had properly read what I’d said, you’ll see that I pointed out that I was struggling to grasp the number unless there is direct evidence of it being as sizeable as reported. If indeed there is evidence, as you are alluding to, then of course it is an absolutely tragic outcome.

    I know there are a lot of people who are refusing to go to this World Cup for moral reasons, which I understand, and I’ve even had a couple of people question my decision for going. 

    If I’m being completely honest and transparent - of course a big driver is the fact that I simply want to go to a World Cup. I’m there to enjoy football, like pretty much everyone else. 

    But if we factor in the controversy/moral aspect of this, I also believe that positive societal change cannot be generated from the outside. 

    Will this World Cup bring about such change? That remains to be seen.

    Does a World Cup in empty stadiums really make a difference to Qatar? Those who preach to others about not going will still be sat at home watching it on the television helping to generate the major broadcasting revenue (the biggest money maker of all).
    I did read what you said, and the bit where you cast doubt on the numbers like you don't have the same Google that I do. This World Cup won't bring about any change as long as people continue to close their eyes to the facts, and question the reality because they'd rather not grapple with the truth. Positive societal change can't be generated solely from the outside, but pressure from outside foments the changes inside. If everyone just covers their eyes and ears then nothing changes at all, it's complacent to just shrug and say 'ah, nobody ever fixed anything by caring'. It's entirely up to you what you do with going or not, fill your boots, but I don't think it's helpful to claim ignorance when the facts are at your fingertips
    If I wanted to claim ignorance then I wouldn’t be in this thread willing to debate the issue. 

    I don’t believe every single thing I read via a Google search, or in the newspapers, or on social media - I’m sure you don’t either. 

    Not suggesting it hasn’t happened. But for a long time now, there are different numbers being thrown about and before you know it everything is taken as gospel. Has it happened to the scale that has been claimed? I don’t know. One source will say one thing and another source will suggest something completely different.

    Like I stated earlier, there were major political/societal issues surrounding the last 3-4 World Cups before this one and very few people wanted to talk about it. With Qatar being considered an ‘unattractive’ venue in a footballing sense, a lot of people will want to believe absolutely every rumour/statistic that gets put out there.

    I don’t agree with your point about change not being possible because people aren’t willing to question the reality. This very topic is pretty much on the lips of anyone who brings up the 2022 World Cup, and has been for years now. It’s not as if everyone is burying their head in the sand and not talking about it.
    What is it exactly you think you're trying to debate here? That killing migrant workers is ok? That the number of migrant slave workers killed could be in the lower thousands than stated so some football matches can happen? Of course you aren't. I think you've got all turned around here. I'm not aware of any legitimate sources claiming anything other than the numbers that are based on embassy records, which are as accurate as we can get given the repressive nature of the regime in question. This whole hand-wavy 'oh, we can't possibly know, sometimes Google is wrong' as if I just clicked the first page that came up and it was written by a 4 year old in Bognor Regis is just bad faith arguing. To be honest, everything you've said in that last post is just shrugging and hand-waving, and I've already said that if you want to ignore all this then that's up to you, I'm honestly not judging. Seems more like you've got your own stuff to work through on this. That's up to you, but I don't think refusing to look into it and throwing doubt on the numbers is going to do it for you.
    6,500 deaths - if that has happened then it’s an absolute tragedy.

    I guess I’m just struggling to get my head around a number being that high without there being more concrete evidence for it. It’s just an astronomical, shocking number. And yes, I’m aware that the information that comes out of the country isn’t going to be broadcast all the facts for us.

    The evidence you’ve mentioned around embassy numbers isn’t something I was aware of previously, and it’s certainly valid.

    I actually saw an interview with one of the main individuals involved in delivering the World Cup ‘project’ for the country and he said the number was 3 people. (And before you say it - I’m not suggesting that is at all accurate either).

    When I said earlier that I don’t think change can be made from the outside, I think you may have misinterpreted it. That’s not my way of trying to play ignorance to the problems. My point being that people completely boycotting the tournament and not attending the region would likely just lead to zero change. 

    Progress could come from people being there to shine a light on the array of issues at hand, and hopefully promote change. Whether that actually happens or not - we’ll have to see.

    I accept that my initial post probably wasn’t getting the point across that I was trying to, and we’ve had to go round the houses on it.

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  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,884
    6,500 deaths is 6,500 tragedies. I wouldn't work in Qatar.  

    But lets recognise the data behind the number. 6,500 deaths of migrant workers in total in Qatar in 10 years. Not 6,500 deaths of World Cup "workers" in 10 years.

    It includes deaths of any description amongst the 2 million migrant workers there at any one time.

    The "3 deaths" claim probably relates to the following:-

    "There have been 37 deaths among workers directly linked to construction of World Cup stadiums, of which 34 are classified as “non-work related” by the event’s organising committee".

    The headlines would have you believe that 6,500 people have died building stadia.

    Would those 6,500 have died had they not been in Qatar? Many would have, more probably wouldn't have. 

    Not justifying, nor making the conditions of migrant workers in Qatar seem acceptable, but just ensuring their is some understanding of the number.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

  • QatarNapsy
    QatarNapsy Posts: 998
    PragueAddick said:
    @QatarNapsy

    i'm wondering what ordinary fans will find to do when they are out there, other than sit by the hotel pool and drink beer, presumably Heineken, and presumably at an exotic price per bottle. And where will they eat? Like I said, ordinary fans, not well-off types on a hospitality jaunt paid by their companies.
    @PragueAddick  This is the official tourism link for the country, gives you an idea of whats on offer https://www.visitqatar.qa/
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,187
    QatarNapsy said:
    This was today at the golf 
    Some of the migrant workforce enjoying their time off in Qatar 
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,112
    SporadicAddick said:
    6,500 deaths is 6,500 tragedies. I wouldn't work in Qatar.  

    But lets recognise the data behind the number. 6,500 deaths of migrant workers in total in Qatar in 10 years. Not 6,500 deaths of World Cup "workers" in 10 years.

    It includes deaths of any description amongst the 2 million migrant workers there at any one time.

    The "3 deaths" claim probably relates to the following:-

    "There have been 37 deaths among workers directly linked to construction of World Cup stadiums, of which 34 are classified as “non-work related” by the event’s organising committee".

    The headlines would have you believe that 6,500 people have died building stadia.

    Would those 6,500 have died had they not been in Qatar? Many would have, more probably wouldn't have. 

    Not justifying, nor making the conditions of migrant workers in Qatar seem acceptable, but just ensuring their is some understanding of the number.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

    From that article it's 6,750 from only India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

    "The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."

    So a conservative estimate of an average of 700 migrant deaths a year in a country of a population of 2million. For comparison there's a graph below of fatal injuries to workers in Great Britain from 1974 to 2021.


    I could show living conditions of migrant construction workers if anyone wants to go in to the 34 non work related deaths.

    It's not just Qatar that has this issue, various countries throughout the Middle East do as well.





  • SporadicAddick
    SporadicAddick Posts: 6,884
    Friend Or Defoe said:
    SporadicAddick said:
    6,500 deaths is 6,500 tragedies. I wouldn't work in Qatar.  

    But lets recognise the data behind the number. 6,500 deaths of migrant workers in total in Qatar in 10 years. Not 6,500 deaths of World Cup "workers" in 10 years.

    It includes deaths of any description amongst the 2 million migrant workers there at any one time.

    The "3 deaths" claim probably relates to the following:-

    "There have been 37 deaths among workers directly linked to construction of World Cup stadiums, of which 34 are classified as “non-work related” by the event’s organising committee".

    The headlines would have you believe that 6,500 people have died building stadia.

    Would those 6,500 have died had they not been in Qatar? Many would have, more probably wouldn't have. 

    Not justifying, nor making the conditions of migrant workers in Qatar seem acceptable, but just ensuring their is some understanding of the number.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022

    From that article it's 6,750 from only India, Pakistan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

    "The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."

    So a conservative estimate of an average of 700 migrant deaths a year in a country of a population of 2million. For comparison there's a graph below of fatal injuries to workers in Great Britain from 1974 to 2021.


    I could show living conditions of migrant construction workers if anyone wants to go in to the 34 non work related deaths.

    It's not just Qatar that has this issue, various countries throughout the Middle East do as well.





    I agree and not defending or absolving. However, 6,500 ( or whatever the horrendous number is) have not died building stadia, which is how many will read the headline.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,041
    Thank you Sporadic.
    So it transpires that the 6,750 deaths from 5 countries citizens, that people had assumed was due to the construction of World Cup Stadia, is actually 3 (directly). 
  • SoundAsa£
    SoundAsa£ Posts: 22,495
    Athletico Charlton said:
    6,500 deaths and rampant slavery.  Well done FIFA.
    I have to say I find it difficult to understand how there were 6,500 deaths attributed to the construction.
    Not saying it’s impossible as I don’t know the facts but it sounds highly unlikely don’t you think?

  • Chris_from_Sidcup
    Chris_from_Sidcup Posts: 36,078
    edited March 2022
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Athletico Charlton said:
    6,500 deaths and rampant slavery.  Well done FIFA.
    I have to say I find it difficult to understand how there were 6,500 deaths attributed to the construction.
    Not saying it’s impossible as I don’t know the facts but it sounds highly unlikely don’t you think?

    It's not just highly unlikely, it simply isn't true. As per the post from @SporadicAddick further up in the thread.
  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,823
    edited March 2022
    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2019/02/reality-check-migrant-workers-rights-with-two-years-to-qatar-2022-world-cup/

    Ninety of 105 domestic workers contacted by Amnesty in the course of its research said they regularly worked more than 14 hours per day and 89 regularly worked seven days a week. Half of the women worked more than 18 hours per day, and most had never had a single day off at all. Some also reported not being paid properly, while 40 women described being insulted, slapped or spat at. One woman said she was treated “like a dog”.
  • QatarNapsy
    QatarNapsy Posts: 998
    cafctom said:
    I’m going out there for the World Cup.

    The organisation of accommodation is the biggest logistical mess people are dealing with at the moment. I actually went and paid over the odds through an agent to ensure getting accommodation for 10 nights.

    Think this will be the last World Cup that is handed to a single country, and especially one as small as Qatar.
    Out of interest, where are you staying?

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  • Callumcafc
    Callumcafc Posts: 63,823
    Covered End said:
    Thank you Sporadic.
    So it transpires that the 6,750 deaths from 5 countries citizens, that people had assumed was due to the construction of World Cup Stadia, is actually 3 (directly). 
    There will have been deaths caused indirectly by the work of course. If 6500 sounds unlikely to some, I’m here to say that only 3 is a lot less plausible.

    The best way to get context here is to understand how many migrant deaths were recorded in the 10 years prior to the World Cup being awarded. The difference between the two figures would be the best indication of a range of deaths that can be attributed to this event.
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,651
    Medieval country with medieval values suddenly having the wealth and toys of the 21st Century thrust upon them. They’re not the only one. 
  • Friend Or Defoe
    Friend Or Defoe Posts: 18,112

    Most of the work taking place over the past ten years will be for the world cup. Infrastructure such as expanding the airport new roads, hotels etc. The 8 grounds have cost about €3.5bn compared to €150bn in the infrastructure upgrade for the world cup. The only other big construction there has been expanding the oil fields.

    If thinking only 3 stadium deaths from 5 countries means things aren't so bad and people watching it from home are some how to blame then so be it. Just don't look too deep in to the 'non-job related deaths'.
  • cafctom
    cafctom Posts: 11,373
    QatarNapsy said:
    cafctom said:
    I’m going out there for the World Cup.

    The organisation of accommodation is the biggest logistical mess people are dealing with at the moment. I actually went and paid over the odds through an agent to ensure getting accommodation for 10 nights.

    Think this will be the last World Cup that is handed to a single country, and especially one as small as Qatar.
    Out of interest, where are you staying?
    So we don’t actually have the details on the exact location yet. The agency can only confirm them once the draw is done, as the package is booked via the FA’s partner and therefore the flight dates are in line with England’s 3 group games.

    We’re told it will be in central Doha though.

    On reflection it would have been cheaper if I’d just done it the way most others are - which is via the FIFA portal. However, considering the limited amount available I didn’t want to be in a situation where I was paying for match tickets but then unable to get anywhere to stay.
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,759
    A phrase I despise is ' we are just going to have to hold our noses'. I think we would be better off if any person in power who uses it is not in power. 
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,488


  • PrincessFiona
    PrincessFiona Posts: 5,476
    Taxi_Lad said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    old thread revisited .. according to today's 'Times' .. 'thousands' of migrant workers have died during the building of the World Cup stadia .. THOUSANDS !! .. even the ancient Roman emperors would have balked at that number .. too late now, BUT as we all know, what a disgrace it was to give this medieval country such a prestigious tournament
    Died of what??
    Boredom.
    They died due to poor levels and standards of health and safety in the construction of the stadia and infrastructure required to host the World Cup. Absolutely fucking disgusting that this tournament was given to Quatar and those responsible for doing so are 100% complicit with those deaths. Appalling working conditions and at least 6500 deaths. Probably much higher.
    How the hell can 6500 people die due to poor H&S standards???
    were they throwing themselves off like lemmings 🤷🏻‍♂️
    Are you a professional twat or do you do it for a hobby?
    No need to act like a prick
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022
  • ShootersHillGuru
    ShootersHillGuru Posts: 50,651
    What an absolute disgrace FIFA are. The national governing bodies are just as culpable. I hope this World Cup spells the end of FIFA but football is only ever about making money. I won’t be watching it.
  • JiMMy 85
    JiMMy 85 Posts: 10,199
    I'd sooner work than make an effort to watch the WC this time out. A corruption-drenched tournament in a medieval country that persecutes the poor and the 'different', hosting a sport played by rich, whiny people. They should put that on the poster! The latest Amnesty stuff is a damning indictment that every sports journalist should be reporting to justify their work trip (Barry Glendenning compared covering the tournament to journalists visiting war zones, which is the pinnacle of sports journalist bullshit - he'll be holed up in a press room eating free food and watching any match he wants, occassionally saying 'Qatar bad but football good' as lazily as humanly possible). 

    Further, after watching the Germany match in a pub last summer, I can honestly say I don't want any of those England fans to experience any success. They don't deserve it. 

    When I was a lad I remember counting how many World Cups I hoped to be alive for. I had no clue that I would eventually not care. 
  • SELR_addicks
    SELR_addicks Posts: 15,488
    edited April 2022
    PrincessFiona said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    Wheresmeticket? said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    ShootersHillGuru said:
    SoundAsa£ said:
    Taxi_Lad said:
    Lincsaddick said:
    old thread revisited .. according to today's 'Times' .. 'thousands' of migrant workers have died during the building of the World Cup stadia .. THOUSANDS !! .. even the ancient Roman emperors would have balked at that number .. too late now, BUT as we all know, what a disgrace it was to give this medieval country such a prestigious tournament
    Died of what??
    Boredom.
    They died due to poor levels and standards of health and safety in the construction of the stadia and infrastructure required to host the World Cup. Absolutely fucking disgusting that this tournament was given to Quatar and those responsible for doing so are 100% complicit with those deaths. Appalling working conditions and at least 6500 deaths. Probably much higher.
    How the hell can 6500 people die due to poor H&S standards???
    were they throwing themselves off like lemmings 🤷🏻‍♂️
    Are you a professional twat or do you do it for a hobby?
    No need to act like a prick
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/feb/23/revealed-migrant-worker-deaths-qatar-fifa-world-cup-2022
    "The total death toll is significantly higher, as these figures do not include deaths from a number of countries which send large numbers of workers to Qatar, including the Philippines and Kenya. Deaths that occurred in the final months of 2020 are also not included."

    So if anything 6,500 is a low figure. 

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