Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.

New Article: Living in Charlton Village in the 1950/60s

145791015

Comments

  • Not the village .. I loved the Lido in summer
  • I am a /Fossdene/Springfield/ Sherrington/Bloomfield.
    Mick used to play football,( badly) and we used to hang around together on the estate.
    Got to know him very well circa 67-70, we used to go to parties, and I alway's remember his laugh, he had a good sense of humour......
    My wife went to Eltham Green, but was not part of the 'Charlton' set.....
  • Nice one Ken I knew Mick from the days when he lived in Fairlawn Court before he moved to Springfield so I guess that would be 1960 or so. We more or less went through school together although he was a year older than me and we were in the 6th form at Eltham Green together. Lost touch a bit after school but Mick was a good bloke for sure. So probably do know Mrs. Ken as it sounds like she was at EGS the same time as me. As said small world but it was good see Mick is still on the beat.
  • Yes certainly a good thred... Really enjoyed reading of all the places where Igrew up. Lenny Glover you were a great winger, I used to watch you fly down the left and as all top players at Charlton you were sold. I managed to play for Perter Reeves when he managed Dartford, another great player who got cut short of his career through injury. Played against Edie Firmani in American in the NASL when he played for Tampa Bay, Rodney Marsh's team in '74. Edie was the Charlton manager when I was a colt and the year I left school in hopes to sign on at Charlton they replaced him with Theo Foley and Foley didn't care for me. I went onto play for Cardif City and we made it to the FA youth cup final against Arsenal. I almost got the winner at Highbury, we tied and got beat in the replay. My father was a Welshman living in Charlton so I had relatives to stay with during my trial there, the valleys of South Wales in those days were something else too. But Charlton is special and thanks to everyone for sharing. I will try to come up with more at another time.... George Gibbs
  • Part 2

    However, when it came to football Charlton Athletic were the main talking point in all the factories and schools. It provided a relief valve against all the week’s tensions. Most people worked Saturday mornings, so it was common to go with workmates to the afternoon match at The Valley. image

     

    All league games were normally played on a Saturday afternoon, but FA Cup replays which were usually held the following Wednesday afternoon due to no floodlights. Absenteeism from work and school was rife. It was surprising the whole community stricken with stomach bugs and bad backs were miraculously recovered by kick-off.

    The attitude of supporters was different. Of course they wanted their team to win. but it would not stop them applauding a good save or a good goal from the opposition. There were never any problems with rival supporters mixing with one another and as for fighting each other that would have been ridiculous. Most people had enough of fighting for freedom and fighting to survive in life to start trouble. 

    Player's attitudes were also very different as well. If you went down in the fifties you were hurt, really hurt, you certainly didn't dive. There were no substitutes. Injured players carried on with dislocated shoulders (Derek Ufton) and all sorts of other injuries.  It was a game played by gentlemen and played fairly. If a player handled or was the last one to touch it before going out of play he would admit it to the ref.

    They were strong tacklers then but they never resorted to cheating or trying to maim each other in order to win an advantage or a game. They were hard but fair. They played on snow with an orange ball. They played in the thick mud. They played on Christmas Day with the return match against the same opposition on Boxing Day. They played open and attacking football with five forwards and five defenders. Hence some of the scores like 6-4 twice against Plymouth 6-6 draw with Middlesbrough and of course the famous 7-6 victory over Huddersfield, which every Charlton supporter says he attended albeit the gate that day was very low. By the way I was there. Honest, I was !

    Charlton as a club became a local focal point with a good hard core of fans watching heroes like Johnny Summers, Stuart Leary, Long John Hewie, Don Townsend and Willie Duff who replaced Sam, to name but a few.  image

     

    The Valley was the biggest ground in the football league. The massive East Terrace stretched up in the sky, and the South Bank on Charlton Heights was even higher although not so wide. The four apexes of the West Stand, with its CAFC logo, and the barn type structure of the North Stand made up the other sides. This was surrounded by a great deal of land which the club owned.

    There was talk of swinging the pitch around so the East Terrace would be behind one goal. Another terrace would be built the other end of the pitch. There was also talk of turning it into the Wembley Stadium of South London and hold important National and International matches. Investment was going to be poured in to make the Valley top notch. In truth, all that happened for years and years was the little wall running round the pitch was whitewashed each season and the little fence that runs along its top was painted black. I know as my uncle painted it. Everything else slowly went into general ruin and decay.

    I wonder where all that money went from the regular 50,000 plus crowds of the Fifties ? Not in the Valley. Not buying better players. What a wasted opportunity.    

    Football coverage during this period was a closed shop. The FA and Football League were extremely jealous of each other as both wanted to be the only ruling body of football. They disagreed on lots of things but they definitely agreed on one thing. They were both absolutely fearful of this new media interest in their baby and nest egg. Football and television did not mix. The biggest fear in those days was radio and television would reduce the crowds to such an extent that there would be no money to me made.

    All the bread and butter money came through the gates. It was a simple philosophy. Less crowd, less money. I wonder what these forward thinkers of the fifties and sixties would make of the current situation if they were alive today.

    The media had strict rules to adhere to. Radio was only allowed second-half coverage of one match and then they could not announce which game they would cover until after 3 o'clock. On the days Charlton played away, every supporter sat by the radio (which was a big heavy piece of furniture that sat in the best room of the house). They tuned in to BBC Sports Report at 5 o’clock on a Saturday for the football results. and hastily checked their pools coupon at the same time hoping they had come up with the elusive 8 draws that would win them a fortune.

    After that excitement had finished, the next event was waiting for The Evening Standard pink classified edition to come out on the streets via paper sellers about six on a Saturday evening. It had all the results plus a report of the match from most games involving London and Southern teams up to midway in the second half. I still to this day do not know how they managed to get match reports to the printing press, printed, distributed and to the public an hour or so after the game had finished.

    There was no catering facilities, though I seem to remember being able to get a cup of tea behind the North Stand. You could get a bag of peanuts from the sellers that walked through the crowd or you could buy hot chestnuts at the Floyd Road entrance.

    There was merchandise sale or marketing of Charlton Athletic products. Sam Bartram opened a shop in Floyd Road in the mid sixties, but it closed soon after. As a kid my parents bought me a red football shirt, white shorts and red and white hooped socks from some clothes shop. Mum then sewed on a number 7 on the back of the shirt because I played on the right wing with my mates.

    How things have changed.

    I love going to The Valley and the surrounding area not only for the game but to drink in all that nostalgia, re-live some wonderful memories and hear some long lost but not forgotten voices.

    A Charlton man forever and wherever I roam.

    Great!
  • Wonderful article!
  • edited August 2013
    Some memories involved Guy Folks peney for the guy at the Dog races ground, made a fortune there to buy bangers. Huge bon fires and roasting spuds at the end of firework fights with the neighbours. Pie&mash in Woolwich, loved going with my mum and having two pies n mash please with liquor. Playing runout's though Marrion Park, going scrumping, make bows and arrows, catapults. I remember rummaging through the rubble of the bombed out house's finding helmets and a dud grenade which I took t school and freaked out the teacher. Going to watch Charlton play and sifting through the crowds to and from the game. As a Charlton colt I was prevey to a pass and loved to watch every game.
  • Anyone recognise the players in the great photo above? Is that Alan Campbell just outside the box? And Matt Tees in the centre of the six-yard box, and Harry Gregory nearest the goal?
  • Deffo Harry and Matt and it looks like Keith Peacock near the far corner flag. Also, could be Ray Treacy on edge of the six yard box.
  • edited August 2013

    Deffo Harry and Matt and it looks like Keith Peacock near the far corner flag. Also, could be Ray Treacy on edge of the six yard box.

    Well spotted. Brilliant cloth cap centre-stage, with cauliflower ears and collar turned up. Date? 1967?

  • Sponsored links:


  • Yep. Cloth caps and a fag!

    I think you're spot on with 1967. Looking at the pitch, probably second half of the season.

    Opposition, just a guess because I think they used to wear white shirts and tangerine shorts............Blackpool.

    God, I loved that era at the Valley, some of the happiest days of my life.
  • edited August 2013

    Yep. Cloth caps and a fag!

    I think you're spot on with 1967. Looking at the pitch, probably second half of the season.

    Opposition, just a guess because I think they used to wear white shirts and tangerine shorts............Blackpool.

    God, I loved that era at the Valley, some of the happiest days of my life.

    We played Blackpool on 18 November 1967, 2 November 1968, and 1 November 1969. Attendances 12,690, 14,906, and 13,635 respectively. In the photo, the crowd looks rather bigger than that. Who else play in white shirts and dark shorts? Derby? Northampton (away strip)? Bolton?

  • Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?
  • Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

  • Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    That's the season that Clough's Derby won the league. Sadly, Palace pipped us to 2nd and were promoted. We finished 3rd and missed out - not even play-offs in those days. It was a great match played in a seething atmosphere. Ray Treacy's goal one of the best seen at the Valley.
  • OMG there's some names on here I'd forgotten......like Tony Swain, and Mick Jackaman....
    My brother was friends with a guy called ' Ronnie Chance ' who apparently had a bit of a
    reputation......perhaps the estates ''hard man'' and I think he had a brother too but can't
    get my braincell to remember the name.....

    Other boys I remember are Roger Parnell, Paul Arnold, Graham and Alan Bayliss plus
    Mark and Paul Smith.

    I def remember the HUGE bonfires and now understand where all the firewood came from...
    that old spooky house in Church lane probably fueled many Nov 5ths thanks to Ken. The only
    thing I can't remember was if the bonfires were pre/post garages being built?? probably before.

    Remember the hollow oak tree?? had fun with that too AND all the conkers that we used to
    get from the trees nearby. Also, scrumping the apples from the garden of the house next to
    the bottom end entrance [opp spooky house].

    My mum used to take me to the coop[?] in charlton village and I seem to remember they had
    their own money, perhaps some sort of paper/cardboard coins?? anyone remember that?

    aaaahhh Charlton Manor, those were the days. but absolutely hated the school dinners and the
    'vomit' smell of the gym. LOL

    Hey........can you imagine what would happen nowadays if a 'female teacher' took young boys
    back to her flat?? Miss Charlton, yes, one of my all time fav's.I think she was responsible for me having to
    stand up in front of the whole school and read out a friggin poem...........Oh and Mr Gill, yeh, remember

    the name but can't put a face to it.......young chap maybe? broke/twisted his ankle in the playground??

    I too played football many moons ago, the estate had a team and we used the 'Bugle' as our watering hole
    and Charlton House for team meetings. Many times I havd to go down into the cellars of Charlton house to
    retrieve the pool table and if you've never been under Charlton house then you've no idea how friggin scary
    it is.

    For all the years that I lived on the Springfield estate and time spent in the village / park etc, I NEVER, EVER
    went into the ''other'' pub opposite the chippy..can't even remember the name. I do know it had a bad rep but
    don't know why?

    Just out of interest, can someone please list all the names of the flats in Springfield? there's about 8 or 9
    right?

    Got lots more to add here but for now am gonna go off and see if I can find some pics......






    The Swan was the name of the pub
  • Went to Sheridan school near the Rugby club just down the road from the standard. 2d was the bus fare to Charlton Park but I sometimes walked home and stopped off at the sweet shop on the corner of Victoria Way to spend it. Sprinfield flats were a cut through to the village where i hopped the fence where the telephone booth sat. Going through the village every day, did the paper round for Leeds shop, who remebers the one armed bloke who ran it. He was up every morning slinging those papers about getting them organized for the kids to deliver them. How about the winkles/mussles stand outside the Swan pub. Saw many a drunck fall over there. The cobblers was across from the pub and the chippie.
  • Sherrington School not Sheridan.
  • edited August 2013

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    That's the season that Clough's Derby won the league. Sadly, Palace pipped us to 2nd and were promoted. We finished 3rd and missed out - not even play-offs in those days. It was a great match played in a seething atmosphere. Ray Treacy's goal one of the best seen at the Valley.
    One thing doesn't quite fit - it wouldn't be as bright and sunny as that any time after 3 p.m. in mid-January; note the shadows of policeman and crowd on the path behind the goal. (Or is the illumination from the floodlights?) If not Derby, who could the opposition be, in white shirts and dark shorts?

  • Sponsored links:


  • I remember the 'charlton Mob' meeting at the top of Vic Way most nights. Dave Chapman, Bill Moriarty, Chris and Lee Hawkins, Pete and Paul Stephens, plus others.......can't remember what we used to do though!
  • Anyone remember the sweet shop at the bottom of Victoria way near Fosdene primary.
    Use to sell an amazing amount of stuff. Chocolate bannanas, creamy 'infilled' pocket watches, Red licorice, sherbet dabs etc.....
    All gobbled up by the time I got to Elliscombe mount flats, before a game of football/cricket before tea!
  • Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    That's the season that Clough's Derby won the league. Sadly, Palace pipped us to 2nd and were promoted. We finished 3rd and missed out - not even play-offs in those days. It was a great match played in a seething atmosphere. Ray Treacy's goal one of the best seen at the Valley.
    One thing doesn't quite fit - it wouldn't be as bright and sunny as that any time after 3 p.m. in mid-January; note the shadows of policeman and crowd on the path behind the goal. (Or is the illumination from the floodlights?) If not Derby, who could the opposition be, in white shirts and dark shorts?

    Elementary my dear Viewfinder. Look at the angle of the shadows. The sun is quite low in the sky and coming from the South East direction. That means it will be mid afternoon on a winters day. That fits.
  • Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    That's the season that Clough's Derby won the league. Sadly, Palace pipped us to 2nd and were promoted. We finished 3rd and missed out - not even play-offs in those days. It was a great match played in a seething atmosphere. Ray Treacy's goal one of the best seen at the Valley.
    One thing doesn't quite fit - it wouldn't be as bright and sunny as that any time after 3 p.m. in mid-January; note the shadows of policeman and crowd on the path behind the goal. (Or is the illumination from the floodlights?) If not Derby, who could the opposition be, in white shirts and dark shorts?

    Elementary my dear Viewfinder. Look at the angle of the shadows. The sun is quite low in the sky and coming from the South East direction. That means it will be mid afternoon on a winters day. That fits.
    Are you absolutely certain we are playing Derby County, Dr Watson? If so, with a crowd that size and Matt Tees playing, it must have been on 18 January 1969. Don't you think the sun would have dipped further after 3 p.m. on such a date, perhaps even been obscured by the heights beyond the south terrace? This rests on your certainty that it must be Derby. Are you quite sure it isn't Northampton Town in their away strip on 6 May 1967, for instance?

  • I'm pretty sure that's little Paul Hince behind Harry Gregory, in which case it's 67/8 as he wasn't playing for us the previous season.

  • Anyone remember the sweet shop at the bottom of Victoria way near Fosdene primary.
    Use to sell an amazing amount of stuff. Chocolate bannanas, creamy 'infilled' pocket watches, Red licorice, sherbet dabs etc.....
    All gobbled up by the time I got to Elliscombe mount flats, before a game of football/cricket before tea!

    Ken do you mean the sweetshop at the rear of the school in inverine road they had a soda fountain machine and would also sell us kids a single woodbine or players weights for a penny!
  • I'm pretty sure that's little Paul Hince behind Harry Gregory, in which case it's 67/8 as he wasn't playing for us the previous season.

    Good thinking, Batman. Paul Hince played 17 games for us in 1967-68, and six in 1968-69, so still could be Derby in January 69. It's the size of the crowd that is distinctive. In 67-68 we had more than 20,000 in only three games: against Millwall, QPR, and Palace - and the opposition in the photo clearly isn't any of them.

  • Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    That's the season that Clough's Derby won the league. Sadly, Palace pipped us to 2nd and were promoted. We finished 3rd and missed out - not even play-offs in those days. It was a great match played in a seething atmosphere. Ray Treacy's goal one of the best seen at the Valley.
    One thing doesn't quite fit - it wouldn't be as bright and sunny as that any time after 3 p.m. in mid-January; note the shadows of policeman and crowd on the path behind the goal. (Or is the illumination from the floodlights?) If not Derby, who could the opposition be, in white shirts and dark shorts?

    Elementary my dear Viewfinder. Look at the angle of the shadows. The sun is quite low in the sky and coming from the South East direction. That means it will be mid afternoon on a winters day. That fits.
    Are you absolutely certain we are playing Derby County, Dr Watson? If so, with a crowd that size and Matt Tees playing, it must have been on 18 January 1969. Don't you think the sun would have dipped further after 3 p.m. on such a date, perhaps even been obscured by the heights beyond the south terrace? This rests on your certainty that it must be Derby. Are you quite sure it isn't Northampton Town in their away strip on 6 May 1967, for instance?

    Viewfinder you may be right as if the team were wearing black or navy shorts they should appear darker than Charltons in a photograph . So it could be blackpool northampton or perhaps plymouth in an away strip .


  • Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    Davo55 said:

    Have to say the gate looks a lot bigger than the numbers quoted for those B'pool matches. I say that taking into account the fact that the published gates were always well light to reduce the sums payable outside the club. I would guess this was taken at one of the biggest gates of the season. Average Valley gate in 67-68 was officially 13,945 with Palace, Millwall and QPR attracting 20,000+. Doesn't look like any of them though. Crowds were lower in 67-68 and only Millwall was above 20,000. In 68-69 we had bigger gates with Villa, Cardiff, Middlesbrough and Millwall all over 20,000 and Palace and Derby over 30,000. Derby maybe?

    I think you may well be right; for some reason, the game against Derby attracted 30,115 on 18 January 1969 (2-0; Treacy, Tees). The crowd appears to be well wrapped up for winter, though the sunshine is unusually bright. Derby in the previous two seasons attracted only 9.034 and 12,078.

    That's the season that Clough's Derby won the league. Sadly, Palace pipped us to 2nd and were promoted. We finished 3rd and missed out - not even play-offs in those days. It was a great match played in a seething atmosphere. Ray Treacy's goal one of the best seen at the Valley.
    One thing doesn't quite fit - it wouldn't be as bright and sunny as that any time after 3 p.m. in mid-January; note the shadows of policeman and crowd on the path behind the goal. (Or is the illumination from the floodlights?) If not Derby, who could the opposition be, in white shirts and dark shorts?

    Elementary my dear Viewfinder. Look at the angle of the shadows. The sun is quite low in the sky and coming from the South East direction. That means it will be mid afternoon on a winters day. That fits.
    Are you absolutely certain we are playing Derby County, Dr Watson? If so, with a crowd that size and Matt Tees playing, it must have been on 18 January 1969. Don't you think the sun would have dipped further after 3 p.m. on such a date, perhaps even been obscured by the heights beyond the south terrace? This rests on your certainty that it must be Derby. Are you quite sure it isn't Northampton Town in their away strip on 6 May 1967, for instance?

    Viewfinder you may be right as if the team were wearing black or navy shorts they should appear darker than Charltons in a photograph . So it could be blackpool northampton or perhaps plymouth in an away strip .
    We wouldn't have got that big a crowd for Plymouth or the Cobblers though.

    I'm not sure it IS Derby Viewfinder, but it made sense when somebody else suggested it. I'm pretty sure the sun angle is ok for just after 3pm on a January day. Don't forget that we had the Cranius4 comet and meteor storm that year, which slightly adjusted the angle of refraction and the specious perpendiculars of the rays. (Ok, I made that last bit up).
  • Two things make me think it's not Derby, firstly they wore black shorts and my (very distant) recollection of the Derby game is that it the weather was dull....................in fact a real mist rolling in from the Thames day.

    There may be a clip of that game in "That Damned United" showing the goals which may or may not help.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Roland Out Forever!