There were 14 responses on the Rotherham fans' forum yesterday, and BINGO! - we've cracked it! By common consent, the famous Brian Tiler is in the middle of the six-yard box, Trevor Swift is the defender on the far post, Neil Hague is towards the far end of the six-yard box, and Johnny Quinn is on the edge of the penalty area, nearest the ref.
One poster commented on the strict formation of the players, which struck us too. Another admitted he didn't know Rotherham's away strip specifically in 1968, but said traditionally they wore pale yellow shirts and pale blue shorts - which fits the black & white tones in the picture.
Charlton Athletic v Rotherham United, 12 April 1968. 4-1 (Kinsey, Campbell, Tees, Treacy). Attendance: 15,082. Referee: Private Godfrey.
Great stuff, gents - all our detailed detective work has been terrific fun. Now, where's the next picture we can get our teeth into?
Well done all. This was like an episode of New Tricks with a bunch of old farts (me included) trying to puzzle out a long dead case :-)
Just one small mystery still - the kick-off time. Any offers ? If this was indeed Matt Tees' goal (48 mins), from an 11 a.m. k-o, that would have been just after noon.
Just one small mystery still - the kick-off time. Any offers ? If this was indeed Matt Tees' goal (48 mins), from an 11 a.m. k-o, that would have been just after noon.
Good Friday, KO 11am. We played the away fixture the following Tuesday, 16th April, 7.15pm kick off. Score 1-1.
Many, many thanks !! Looks like we might even have narrowed it down to an individual goal .... amazing.
I went to the away game. Not exactly the game of a lifetime, and travelled back overnight on the train, straight into work. Still, at least I saw a game - got to Rotherham for the match in Apr 66 and it had been postponed during the morning. A more desolate place would be hard to imagine.
There were 14 responses on the Rotherham fans' forum yesterday, and BINGO! - we've cracked it! By common consent, the famous Brian Tiler is in the middle of the six-yard box, Trevor Swift is the defender on the far post, Neil Hague is towards the far end of the six-yard box, and Johnny Quinn is on the edge of the penalty area, nearest the ref.
One poster commented on the strict formation of the players, which struck us too. Another admitted he didn't know Rotherham's away strip specifically in 1968, but said traditionally they wore pale yellow shirts and pale blue shorts - which fits the black & white tones in the picture.
Charlton Athletic v Rotherham United, 12 April 1968. 4-1 (Kinsey, Campbell, Tees, Treacy). Attendance: 15,082. Referee: Private Godfrey.
Great stuff, gents - all our detailed detective work has been terrific fun. Now, where's the next picture we can get our teeth into?
Well done all. This was like an episode of New Tricks with a bunch of old farts (me included) trying to puzzle out a long dead case :-)
New Tricks, old farts (me too!), Sherlock Holmes, Miss Marple, Hercule Poirot, and Inspector Maigret. What a team!
Fair play also to the kind interest of the 14 respondents from Rotherham - this is what sport is really about, not the soulless circus of yesterday ....
Many, many thanks !! Looks like we might even have narrowed it down to an individual goal .... amazing.
I went to the away game. Not exactly the game of a lifetime, and travelled back overnight on the train, straight into work. Still, at least I saw a game - got to Rotherham for the match in Apr 66 and it had been postponed during the morning. A more desolate place would be hard to imagine.
Steady on, GHF - that photo isn't necessarily depicting a goal! The ball may have hit the bar; or perhaps we are looking at a rebound, the keeper having parried it. Only Matt would be able to say for sure....
Do I take it you weren't at the game? I've just dug out my old programmes and discovered I must have been at the match! Am I one of the youngsters in the photo, leaning over the railings on the south terrace? If only I had your astonishingly accurate memory, GHF!
I've also got the programme for the next home match, against Bristol City on 20 April. Have a read of this extract from the Club Notes, complete with courteous language and warm sentiment:
"Three matches within four days over Easter placed a tremendous strain on Charlton's depleted playing staff. It is admitted of course that we were not the only club with a mammoth task, but it is safe to say that Charlton had the hardest assignment, having to play three games against clubs involved in promotion and relegation issues and having to travel hundreds of miles to play two of the matches.
"Good Friday's home fixture with Rotherham United was a happy prelude and the good crowd of over 15,000 had plenty of good entertainment even though most of the goals emanated from defensive errors. We were very gratified by the attendance because years ago Charlton were the forerunners in staging morning matches at holiday time. We were in fact the only London club to play in the mornings. Now other London clubs are following Charlton's lead.
"Almost immediately after Friday's game at The Valley our players were whisked away to London by coach for a good meal, after which they entrained for the long journey to Blackpool and stayed the night at a seafront hotel."
I love the whisking away "to London" as though it were a separate place, the "good meal", and the "seafront hotel". Utterly, utterly delightful!
Many, many thanks !! Looks like we might even have narrowed it down to an individual goal .... amazing.
I went to the away game. Not exactly the game of a lifetime, and travelled back overnight on the train, straight into work. Still, at least I saw a game - got to Rotherham for the match in Apr 66 and it had been postponed during the morning. A more desolate place would be hard to imagine.
Steady on, GHF - that photo isn't necessarily depicting a goal! The ball may have hit the bar; or perhaps we are looking at a rebound, the keeper having parried it. Only Matt would be able to say for sure....
Do I take it you weren't at the game? I've just dug out my old programmes and discovered I must have been at the match! Am I one of the youngsters in the photo, leaning over the railings on the south terrace? If only I had your astonishingly accurate memory, GHF!
I've also got the programme for the next home match, against Bristol City on 20 April. Have a read of this extract from the Club Notes, complete with courteous language and warm sentiment:
"Three matches within four days over Easter placed a tremendous strain on Charlton's depleted playing staff. It is admitted of course that we were not the only club with a mammoth task, but it is safe to say that Charlton had the hardest assignment, having to play three games against clubs involved in promotion and relegation issues and having to travel hundreds of miles to play two of the matches.
"Good Friday's home fixture with Rotherham United was a happy prelude and the good crowd of over 15,000 had plenty of good entertainment even though most of the goals emanated from defensive errors. We were very gratified by the attendance because years ago Charlton were the forerunners in staging morning matches at holiday time. We were in fact the only London club to play in the mornings. Now other London clubs are following Charlton's lead.
"Almost immediately after Friday's game at The Valley our players were whisked away to London by coach for a good meal, after which they entrained for the long journey to Blackpool and stayed the night at a seafront hotel."
I love the whisking away "to London" as though it were a separate place, the "good meal", and the "seafront hotel". Utterly, utterly delightful!
I love "entrained", too! Sounds more 30s than 60s.
I was at the match, VF, but remember little of it, unfortunately. My guess is that I would have been near the top of the East, around half-way.
A local expression was "going up London" - as a Kent lad I often thought it sounded strange : you're already there !!
I'm shocked that your superhuman memory fails you for once, GHF! Me, I can't recall one game from the next in those days. I was coming up to my twelfth birthday at the Rotherham game, so too old (even then!) to be hanging over the railings at the front. I was probably a little way back on the south terrace with my pal Clive: we used to switch ends, keeping a close eye on our strike-force of Matt and Harry & co.
All of our detective work reinforces for me the beautiful magic of pictures and photos. I didn't recognise the ref, but as soon as you gave us the name 'Osborne of Ipswich' I could picture him in motion, just as I used to see him from our elevated point on the terraces. That white hair - it was curiously lopsided, as I recall.
Any game when we found out that Mr Osborne was in charge would generally be anticipated with some concern - the old fool was not held in the greatest of respect. You are quite right - his hair was piled up on one side.
My memory is far from infallible, I'm afraid. I do remember the Blackpool away game on Easter Saturday - typical Bank Holiday weather, absolutely perishing. It seemed a long old journey to and fro, and we gave ourselves little time to enjoy the seaside. The stadium was nothing special, the match brought us little comfort - another forlorn trip back from the North West, accompanied only by the solace of Mr Whitbread.
One game I do recall is 4 May 68 - CAFC 5-1 Hull, our last home match of the season. A bunch of us were staying down in Brighton for the weekend, and on the Friday night I got on rather well with a really nice blonde girl. I had to abscond on the Saturday to get back to Charlton - I'd seen every home game until then and I certainly wasn't going to miss the clean sweep. So - duty called and for once was rewarded. I got back to the South Coast early evening to find my mate trying to infiltrate himself, the snake, but justice prevailed and as he was from Hull I had a double result from the day !!
Well done lads we have nailed it ( like GHF with the blonde ! ) Rotherham brings back memories of a tough defence part time miners built like brick outhouses they even had a goalkeeper called ironside . Perhaps some of you can remember they had a good centre forward called John Galley and I can clearly recall in the mid 60's somebody in the crowd shouting out Galley we should have bought you years ago if only this bunch of pratts would spend some money. Bring on the next challenge .
Gents - well done, the power of the Internet eh? Great idea to draft in the Millers for confirmation of the opposition. If only we could find a snap of us playing Barnstoneworth United....
Cardinal - I left a message on the Rotherham fans' forum this morning thanking them for their contributions. The thread seems to be deleted now, but I noticed there were a couple of Millers discussing their keeper in the photo. One said: "That's Alan Hill, he's listed in the programme." And the other said: "Doesn't look like Hill - I've expanded the photo by 400 per cent, and it looks like Roy Tunks."
Fossdene - sadly blonde Pat put up a pretty tough defence as well .... I remember Galley (also played for Brizzle) and I think it was Roy Ironside the goalie. Rotherham certainly had some good players in the mid-60s.
CS - yes, the call to the Rotherham fans was the killer blow : a great idea from VF.
VF - to prevent a war amongst the whippetfanciers you should let them know that the good book confirms it was indeed Alan Hill.
Viewfinder -I do not know if this will upload clear enough to read but it is an article on one of our hero Harry taken from an orient/Charlton prog 26/2/66 ( we won 2-1 ) the other photo is Charley Vaughn the only Charlton player IMO to give matt a run for his money with heading skills.
Thanks, Fossdeneboy - terrific photo, and interesting article: I had forgotten that Orient were in the top flight for a while. I see Les Gore gets a mention; wasn't he later on our coaching staff?
Any game when we found out that Mr Osborne was in charge would generally be anticipated with some concern - the old fool was not held in the greatest of respect. You are quite right - his hair was piled up on one side.
My memory is far from infallible, I'm afraid. I do remember the Blackpool away game on Easter Saturday - typical Bank Holiday weather, absolutely perishing. It seemed a long old journey to and fro, and we gave ourselves little time to enjoy the seaside. The stadium was nothing special, the match brought us little comfort - another forlorn trip back from the North West, accompanied only by the solace of Mr Whitbread.
One game I do recall is 4 May 68 - CAFC 5-1 Hull, our last home match of the season. A bunch of us were staying down in Brighton for the weekend, and on the Friday night I got on rather well with a really nice blonde girl. I had to abscond on the Saturday to get back to Charlton - I'd seen every home game until then and I certainly wasn't going to miss the clean sweep. So - duty called and for once was rewarded. I got back to the South Coast early evening to find my mate trying to infiltrate himself, the snake, but justice prevailed and as he was from Hull I had a double result from the day !!
Happy days !!
Great story, GHF: the double-whammy over Hull. And if you scored with the blonde, that was a hat-trick. I was only twelve, so all those lovely shenanigans were yet to come. I took a girlfriend to a match on a couple of occasions. Linda was paranoid about crowd violence, and needed a lot of gentle persuading to join me for her first ever match, against Brentford in August 1980. We had just come through the turnstile when Dick Neve piped up over the tannoy: "And birthday greetings to 'Slicer', of Brentford." Poor Linda quailed at that. We won 3-1 (Powell, Hales, Robinson) - and I scored, too.
As of Thursday evening, the 1968 Rotherham photo I posted on their fans' forum has had over a thousand views and 24 comments. Contrary to earlier reports, the tall defender in the middle of the six-yard box is Dave Watson, who went on to play for England. Brian Tiler is partly obscured by Ray Treacy; Johnny Quinn is on the 18-yard line nearest the camera, with Dennis Leigh his team-mate nearer the ref.
As of Thursday evening, the 1968 Rotherham photo I posted on their fans' forum has had over a thousand views and 24 comments. Contrary to earlier reports, the tall defender in the middle of the six-yard box is Dave Watson, who went on to play for England. Brian Tiler is partly obscured by Ray Treacy; Johnny Quinn is on the 18-yard line nearest the camera, with Dennis Leigh his team-mate nearer the ref.
Two great names from the past Dave Watson a centre half in the Steve Brown /Steve thomson mould who wore the England shirt with pride. Brian Tiler a midfield leader who tommy doc always tried to sign when he was collecting football clubs like golf clubs . Brian was sadly killed in 1990 in the car crash in italy which also badly injured Harry Red knapp.
As of Thursday evening, the 1968 Rotherham photo I posted on their fans' forum has had over a thousand views and 24 comments. Contrary to earlier reports, the tall defender in the middle of the six-yard box is Dave Watson, who went on to play for England. Brian Tiler is partly obscured by Ray Treacy; Johnny Quinn is on the 18-yard line nearest the camera, with Dennis Leigh his team-mate nearer the ref.
Two great names from the past Dave Watson a centre half in the Steve Brown /Steve thomson mould who wore the England shirt with pride. Brian Tiler a midfield leader who tommy doc always tried to sign when he was collecting football clubs like golf clubs . Brian was sadly killed in 1990 in the car crash in italy which also badly injured Harry Red knapp.
I remember Redknapp's crash, but had forgotten that Brian Tiler was killed. It makes that wonderfully atmospheric photo even more poignant.
GHF - I chuckled at your description of Osborne, the ref in the Rotherham match, as an "old fool". With his lopsided white hair he did look much older than other refs, perhaps aged 48 at most. People generally looked older in them days, just as their ears were bigger and fleshier (see the foreground spectators!).
You mention the evocatively named Roy Ironside, Rotherham keeper. Another Rotherham keeper who always impressed on his visits to The Valley was the very tough Jim McDonagh, who in 1989-90 was briefly on the books at CAFC but made no appearances.
Fossdene - great names indeed. (Btw, Dave Watson scored our (own) goal in the Tuesday night return.) Was Brian Tiler related to Carl ?
VF - players from that area often seemed to have suitably robust names. Fossdene it was who first brought up Ironside. McDonagh was indeed another good keeper. As for Mr Osborne, as he pottered about he would have been the very antithesis of the whirlwind Roger Kirkpatrick. There was also some highly-esteemed refs in those days - remember Tommy Dawes of Norwich ?
GHF - I've had a quick scan of the web and can't find a family link between Brian and Carl Tiler. I'm afraid the ref Tommy Dawes doesn't ring a bell with me. It would be lovely to find some video footage of Roger Kirkpatrick in action!
Keepers who impressed us back in the 60s - Middlesbrough had a hulk between the sticks who served them well for many years: Scottish or Irish, I recall - but what was his name? At first I thought of Jim McDonagh, but apparently not. McKechnie? Dai Davies, a regular visitor to The Valley with Wrexham, had a strong physical presence. Later, in the 80s, at the opposite end of the physique spectrum was Roy Burton, Oxford United keeper for more than 400 games. He was extremely slight, even waif-like, and slightly knock-kneed.
Fossdene - great names indeed. (Btw, Dave Watson scored our (own) goal in the Tuesday night return.) Was Brian Tiler related to Carl ?
VF - players from that area often seemed to have suitably robust names. Fossdene it was who first brought up Ironside. McDonagh was indeed another good keeper. As for Mr Osborne, as he pottered about he would have been the very antithesis of the whirlwind Roger Kirkpatrick. There was also some highly-esteemed refs in those days - remember Tommy Dawes of Norwich ?
Yes I do also a lot of refs in those days were policemen or prison officers my own cousin Rod Stephenson was a prison officer who was a qualified southern league ref often was a linesman at the valley although if the FA had found out he was an addick and his uncle was a former CAF player he would have been in trouble.when rod left school his first job was as apprentice to Harold Palmer and often attended the valley in a press role.when I lived in Harlow there was a great league ref named Arthur Diamond who would often ref a 1st division game on a saturday and then ref a local game on the sunday ( often waiving the 10 shilling fee ) arthurs final league game was at Everton where he was shown on MOTD being carried off on a stretcher with a twisted knee.
PS my cousin Rod always said that running the line at Charlton was a pleasure compared to the hostile crowd at Dartford.
GHF - I've had a quick scan of the web and can't find a family link between Brian and Carl Tiler. I'm afraid the ref Tommy Dawes doesn't ring a bell with me. It would be lovely to find some video footage of Roger Kirkpatrick in action!
Keepers who impressed us back in the 60s - Middlesbrough had a hulk between the sticks who served them well for many years: Scottish or Irish, I recall - but what was his name? At first I thought of Jim McDonagh, but apparently not. McKechnie? Dai Davies, a regular visitor to The Valley with Wrexham, had a strong physical presence. Later, in the 80s, at the opposite end of the physique spectrum was Roy Burton, Oxford United keeper for more than 400 games. He was extremely slight, even waif-like, and slightly knock-kneed.
The keeper you are thinking of could it be scottish international Eddie Connacan who played for boro 95 times in the 1960's if my memory is correct he had a builld bigger than ou own Willie Duff .
I was walking along Plumstead High Street yesterday, and noticed as you are heading up from the station a low-rise block of flats on the left called Richard Neve House. Could he be anything to do with our very own Dick Neve, who used to intone over the tannoy: "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and welcome to The Valley the supporters from Huddersfield Town"....
I was walking along Plumstead High Street yesterday, and noticed as you are heading up from the station a low-rise block of flats on the left called Richard Neve House. Could he be anything to do with our very own Dick Neve, who used to intone over the tannoy: "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and welcome to The Valley the supporters from Huddersfield Town"....
Yes, i think so, he was mayor of Greenwich in the mid 70s.
I was walking along Plumstead High Street yesterday, and noticed as you are heading up from the station a low-rise block of flats on the left called Richard Neve House. Could he be anything to do with our very own Dick Neve, who used to intone over the tannoy: "Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and welcome to The Valley the supporters from Huddersfield Town"....
Yes, i think so, he was mayor of Greenwich in the mid 70s.
That figures - it appears to be an ex-council care home. Was reasonably impressed with Plumstead High Street. It has something of a reputation, but I found it quite busy and vibrant: not many empty shops, for instance.
Comments
Just one small mystery still - the kick-off time. Any offers ? If this was indeed Matt Tees' goal (48 mins), from an 11 a.m. k-o, that would have been just after noon.
GlassHalfFull Member
12:01PM
Just one small mystery still - the kick-off time. Any offers ? If this was indeed Matt Tees' goal (48 mins), from an 11 a.m. k-o, that would have been just after noon.
Good Friday, KO 11am. We played the away fixture the following Tuesday, 16th April, 7.15pm kick off. Score 1-1.
Many, many thanks !! Looks like we might even have narrowed it down to an individual goal .... amazing.
I went to the away game. Not exactly the game of a lifetime, and travelled back overnight on the train, straight into work. Still, at least I saw a game - got to Rotherham for the match in Apr 66 and it had been postponed during the morning. A more desolate place would be hard to imagine.
Fair play also to the kind interest of the 14 respondents from Rotherham - this is what sport is really about, not the soulless circus of yesterday ....
Do I take it you weren't at the game? I've just dug out my old programmes and discovered I must have been at the match! Am I one of the youngsters in the photo, leaning over the railings on the south terrace? If only I had your astonishingly accurate memory, GHF!
I've also got the programme for the next home match, against Bristol City on 20 April. Have a read of this extract from the Club Notes, complete with courteous language and warm sentiment:
"Three matches within four days over Easter placed a tremendous strain on Charlton's depleted playing staff. It is admitted of course that we were not the only club with a mammoth task, but it is safe to say that Charlton had the hardest assignment, having to play three games against clubs involved in promotion and relegation issues and having to travel hundreds of miles to play two of the matches.
"Good Friday's home fixture with Rotherham United was a happy prelude and the good crowd of over 15,000 had plenty of good entertainment even though most of the goals emanated from defensive errors. We were very gratified by the attendance because years ago Charlton were the forerunners in staging morning matches at holiday time. We were in fact the only London club to play in the mornings. Now other London clubs are following Charlton's lead.
"Almost immediately after Friday's game at The Valley our players were whisked away to London by coach for a good meal, after which they entrained for the long journey to Blackpool and stayed the night at a seafront hotel."
I love the whisking away "to London" as though it were a separate place, the "good meal", and the "seafront hotel". Utterly, utterly delightful!
I was at the match, VF, but remember little of it, unfortunately. My guess is that I would have been near the top of the East, around half-way.
A local expression was "going up London" - as a Kent lad I often thought it sounded strange : you're already there !!
All of our detective work reinforces for me the beautiful magic of pictures and photos. I didn't recognise the ref, but as soon as you gave us the name 'Osborne of Ipswich' I could picture him in motion, just as I used to see him from our elevated point on the terraces. That white hair - it was curiously lopsided, as I recall.
Any game when we found out that Mr Osborne was in charge would generally be anticipated with some concern - the old fool was not held in the greatest of respect. You are quite right - his hair was piled up on one side.
My memory is far from infallible, I'm afraid. I do remember the Blackpool away game on Easter Saturday - typical Bank Holiday weather, absolutely perishing. It seemed a long old journey to and fro, and we gave ourselves little time to enjoy the seaside. The stadium was nothing special, the match brought us little comfort - another forlorn trip back from the North West, accompanied only by the solace of Mr Whitbread.
One game I do recall is 4 May 68 - CAFC 5-1 Hull, our last home match of the season. A bunch of us were staying down in Brighton for the weekend, and on the Friday night I got on rather well with a really nice blonde girl. I had to abscond on the Saturday to get back to Charlton - I'd seen every home game until then and I certainly wasn't going to miss the clean sweep. So - duty called and for once was rewarded. I got back to the South Coast early evening to find my mate trying to infiltrate himself, the snake, but justice prevailed and as he was from Hull I had a double result from the day !!
Happy days !!
What have we started? You see - it's catching!
Fossdene - sadly blonde Pat put up a pretty tough defence as well .... I remember Galley (also played for Brizzle) and I think it was Roy Ironside the goalie. Rotherham certainly had some good players in the mid-60s.
CS - yes, the call to the Rotherham fans was the killer blow : a great idea from VF.
VF - to prevent a war amongst the whippetfanciers you should let them know that the good book confirms it was indeed Alan Hill.
Nice one !!
Two great names from the past Dave Watson a centre half in the Steve Brown /Steve thomson mould who wore the England shirt with pride. Brian Tiler a midfield leader who tommy doc always tried to sign when he was collecting football clubs like golf clubs . Brian was sadly killed in 1990 in the car crash in italy which also badly injured Harry Red knapp.
You mention the evocatively named Roy Ironside, Rotherham keeper. Another Rotherham keeper who always impressed on his visits to The Valley was the very tough Jim McDonagh, who in 1989-90 was briefly on the books at CAFC but made no appearances.
Fossdene - great names indeed. (Btw, Dave Watson scored our (own) goal in the Tuesday night return.) Was Brian Tiler related to Carl ?
VF - players from that area often seemed to have suitably robust names. Fossdene it was who first brought up Ironside. McDonagh was indeed another good keeper. As for Mr Osborne, as he pottered about he would have been the very antithesis of the whirlwind Roger Kirkpatrick. There was also some highly-esteemed refs in those days - remember Tommy Dawes of Norwich ?
Keepers who impressed us back in the 60s - Middlesbrough had a hulk between the sticks who served them well for many years: Scottish or Irish, I recall - but what was his name? At first I thought of Jim McDonagh, but apparently not. McKechnie? Dai Davies, a regular visitor to The Valley with Wrexham, had a strong physical presence. Later, in the 80s, at the opposite end of the physique spectrum was Roy Burton, Oxford United keeper for more than 400 games. He was extremely slight, even waif-like, and slightly knock-kneed.
PS my cousin Rod always said that running the line at Charlton was a pleasure compared to the hostile crowd at Dartford.