Yes, Christine Robinson did go out with Mick Noonan for a while. I must remind him of that when I see him next! She had a brother Kenny who sometimes tried to play football but always wore his massive black boots which did not help his cause. I also remember the owls being spotted roosting, in daylight or early evening, high up in the trees opposite Langhorne Hse. That caused quite a stir as you say. Plus your two sisters Malcolm who I think were quite studious. When I was about 14 I always wore a suit for some reason, older brothers influence I guess, and one day walked down through the flats from Marlborough Lane ( where I'd moved to) to meet the usual crowd outside Priory Hse. Terry Moseley's Dad confronted me and accused me of making some commotion or being rude when I wasn't even there! After listening to my denial he threw a full bucket of water over me. I walked home drenched and my older brothers were there and found out what happened and I swore it was nothing to do with me. So my older brother Des, who was...ummm ...a bit short tempered and could look after himself, filled a bucket and took me to Moseley's front door which duly opened and we were invited in for a chat. Big brother and Moseley ended up getting on well whilst I dripped in the corner feeling stupid. But that's how things were settled then. My older brothers were also friends with the Starbucks family who lived at the bottom of Victoria way and had a big reputation for everything. Harry ended up playing for Heathway briefly I think at some stage or is that wrong? Anyways, back in the day if you knew the right people you rarely had a lot of trouble. Didn't help me much as Dave Chapmen brother, Bob, and his gang beat the s..t out of me and I had to fein serious injury when I saw Dave Kelly was carrying an axe! Once again, after a suitable time lapse Bob and I got on fine and Dave and I never had a problem as we were at school together. It was abit like once you've paid your dues all was well. Now I have one small observation of this forum. It is quite apparent that a number of us obviously know each other and probably quite well in some cases. I cannot recognise any of the user names so would it be a crime to disclose our full names without breaking the Data Protection Act or similar? I just thought memories would be stirred a bit quicker with proper names or at least a hint of one. If there's a way of doing this via the forum please let me know. The other reason is I might owe you money!
On a sadder note, it is inevitable that some have departed this world. Lawrie Gage, Pete Tucker and Dave Tweedie.
Terry - that's not Dave Tweedie, ex BT and worked down at the National Maritime Museum after early retirement, I hope?
Really saddened by this. I worked around Dave for 15 years - he never took work too seriously and always put a smile on my face. He was someone I would always bump into every few months without really knowing outside work. He's someone I often get the feeling I am going to meet in a minute when out and about (if anyone else ever gets those feelings) - Charlton, The Standard, The British Oak, Eltham High Street etc. Amazed if he's been gone ten years. Bless you Dave.
Kenny Robinson was a very short guy, who I used to hang around with occasionally. I don't recall that he had any footballing skills whatsoever!
I remember the hollow tree, which was quite exceptional. As I recall, it was rotting from within and as such you could climb it from the inside and "pop out" near the top. Quite unique.
Dave Tweedie was a gentle giant and a great follower/supporter of Heathway. Dave had few footballing skills, hence his role as "chief supporter". Heathway did run a third team, playing in a local Sunday afternoon league; Dave sometimes turned out at this level. The third team had only about 5 core players. The rest of the team came from players who had turned out in the morning for either the first or second team and who had "downed" a few pints during Sunday lunchtime in the Bugle Horn!
I had forgotten, but can confirm that Harry Starbuck played one season for Heathway. He was slightly older than the rest of us, heavier and slower, but had silky skills. He was a key player for us for that one season.
This thread reignites lost thoughts....I now remember that Kenny/Christine's father had a motor scooter with a sidecar. I can recall him taking Kenny and I to school in his vehicle. I used to sit in the sidecar and recall the wind whistling past my face. On one occasion, I was playing sword-fencing with someone, using a cricket stump as my sword. I ended up smashing his motorcycle windscreen by accident. I was absolutely petrified as how he would react; I remember Christine smoothing the way for me. I don't recall who paid for the replacement, but it wasn't me!
Whilst we were talking earlier about Springfield Grove back in late 50/early 60s I corresponded earlier today with Eddie Curtin who confirmed he did hurt his back but I will leave it to him to explain why and how. He is reading this forum. Anyhow, Eddue and I are intrigued as to why the game of "Cannon", as I mentioned much earlier here, has never been seen outside of the estate. Surely we were not so inventfull as to produce an exclusive game. It would actually make a good TV sport/reality game and be quite exciting! What ever happened to Dave Shepherd Who I think lived in Priory ir Langhorne Hse? Dave Warren (Wislon Hse) went off to be a ranger for the Forestry Commission or similar in about 1968 or so. Does anyone remember a brilliant young footballer called Dave Tullet? I think he was at Charlton Manor but not sure. I remember going to watch him play for Greenwich District and he scored a cool goal by back heeling it into the net from 5 yards. I heard he later lost an arm in a work accident and I think I also heard he passed way some time later. One of the most talented local players I had ever seen and given a break could have gone on to a better level by far. Somebody else mentioned John Davies. Would this be the John Davies who went to Charlton Manor primary school and lived in Indus Road opposite the school? John was a very good, cool, player and had height and speed. He played full back for the school back than and was in the same team as me. Another memory flash whilst here! The headmaster of Charlton Manor used to hand out prizes at end of term and Many kids won a prize for best this or that or just being there. All banned now. I still have the chess set and the Book 101 Best Poems and The Ascent of Everest book by Sherpa Tenzing I chose over various years. Nothing to do with ability but more encouragement and it seemed to work in a funny way. Can you imagine giving prizes like that now? My thoughts still go back to the comments of Dave Tweedie and it seems so unfair that he has gone. The big smile and clipped comment. Pete Tucker, I hear from Peter Gage, was also taken from us tragically early. Both succumbed to illnesses that should, by now, be at least controllable or cureable or is it really down to the luck of the draw. On a lighter note - yes, the Holly Oak was a general meeting place but only for kids up to a certain age as the novelty wore off....or should have. Can anyone explain why it was hollow and still standing? There was also a tree in the gardens of Charlton Hse which we called the B52 and used to meet there at the age of 7/8 yrs old. Nothing happened there....it was just....there. There was also a guy called Ron Ball? Who was a phenomenal tree climber and would scale any tree including the huge one just outside Wilson Hse....and it was big. There was one beautiful sight that was not exclusive to any estate locally and that was the huge flocks of Starlng birds that would swarm in the air towards the river every evening around September. I thought they were getting ready to leave for South Africa but may have been getting ready to roost in London and migrate later. Huge amounts of birds that blackened the sky which you don't see now. In Springfield there used to be some guy that visited the estate and got us to buy/ use YoYos and we became quite adept at using them having learnt loads of tricks. Dickkhead demonstrator would show us some and, of course, we were keen to be better - and we were! Whatever happened to Derek Postel from Langhorne Hse or Janice Ellsworth and her sister also from Langhorne plus Barry Batchelor? and his sister? Just throwing some names out there amongst you.
Whilst we were talking earlier about Springfield Grove back in late 50/early 60s I corresponded earlier today with Eddie Curtin who confirmed he did hurt his back but I will leave it to him to explain why and how. He is reading this forum. Anyhow, Eddue and I are intrigued as to why the game of "Cannon", as I mentioned much earlier here, has never been seen outside of the estate. Surely we were not so inventfull as to produce an exclusive game. It would actually make a good TV sport/reality game and be quite exciting! What ever happened to Dave Shepherd Who I think lived in Priory ir Langhorne Hse? Dave Warren (Wislon Hse) went off to be a ranger for the Forestry Commission or similar in about 1968 or so. Does anyone remember a brilliant young footballer called Dave Tullet? I think he was at Charlton Manor but not sure. I remember going to watch him play for Greenwich District and he scored a cool goal by back heeling it into the net from 5 yards. I heard he later lost an arm in a work accident and I think I also heard he passed way some time later. One of the most talented local players I had ever seen and given a break could have gone on to a better level by far. Somebody else mentioned John Davies. Would this be the John Davies who went to Charlton Manor primary school and lived in Indus Road opposite the school? John was a very good, cool, player and had height and speed. He played full back for the school back than and was in the same team as me. Another memory flash whilst here! The headmaster of Charlton Manor used to hand out prizes at end of term and Many kids won a prize for best this or that or just being there. All banned now. I still have the chess set and the Book 101 Best Poems and The Ascent of Everest book by Sherpa Tenzing I chose over various years. Nothing to do with ability but more encouragement and it seemed to work in a funny way. Can you imagine giving prizes like that now? My thoughts still go back to the comments of Dave Tweedie and it seems so unfair that he has gone. The big smile and clipped comment. Pete Tucker, I hear from Peter Gage, was also taken from us tragically early. Both succumbed to illnesses that should, by now, be at least controllable or cureable or is it really down to the luck of the draw. On a lighter note - yes, the Holly Oak was a general meeting place but only for kids up to a certain age as the novelty wore off....or should have. Can anyone explain why it was hollow and still standing? There was also a tree in the gardens of Charlton Hse which we called the B52 and used to meet there at the age of 7/8 yrs old. Nothing happened there....it was just....there. There was also a guy called Ron Ball? Who was a phenomenal tree climber and would scale any tree including the huge one just outside Wilson Hse....and it was big. There was one beautiful sight that was not exclusive to any estate locally and that was the huge flocks of Starlng birds that would swarm in the air towards the river every evening around September. I thought they were getting ready to leave for South Africa but may have been getting ready to roost in London and migrate later. Huge amounts of birds that blackened the sky which you don't see now. In Springfield there used to be some guy that visited the estate and got us to buy/ use YoYos and we became quite adept at using them having learnt loads of tricks. Dickkhead demonstrator would show us some and, of course, we were keen to be better - and we were! Whatever happened to Derek Postel from Langhorne Hse or Janice Ellsworth and her sister also from Langhorne plus Barry Batchelor? and his sister? Just throwing some names out there amongst you.
Cheers,
T.A.
The Batchelors moved out and the Parnells moved in...... No 4. Lived opposite my family on the first floor of Langhorne Hse. I knew John Davies, ( if it is the same guy) he went to Bloomfield, and was the captain of the school team, and I think district team player. Got to know John in the fifth form, we used to chat up the girls ( on the 53 bus,Pat Keane from Cherry Orchard, and Louise Merritt, who later worked at Graham's Webb at Lee.) from King's Warren, along with Martin Chamberlin who lived in Elliscombe Mount.
"Anyhow, Eddue and I are intrigued as to why the game of "Cannon", as I mentioned much earlier here, has never been seen outside of the estate. Surely we were not so inventfull as to produce an exclusive game. It would actually make a good TV sport/reality game and be quite exciting!"
We used to play Cannon out in the street when I lived in Deptford = late 50s/early 60s.
Somebody mentioned earlier that the Mayor of Greenwich lived in Priory House. Unless the estate had two local Mayors I think you will find he lived in Marr Hse and his name was Mr Rainer. He absolutely stank of cigars and was a short podgy fella who looked like he was about to either explode or have a heart attack. The massive Mayoral car would pull up outside Marr Hse ( this was about 1956/7) and collect or deliver him. His wife was the original Mrs Bouquet in that she was awfully nice and proper but unfortunately for her all us lot were her neighbours. She used to entice Mick Pattison, Chris Jarrett and myself to her flat on the top floor and give us dripping sandwiches covered in salt. Perhaps she was trying to kill us off. The paper lady at the top of Victoria Way ( previously mentioned) had that pitch for years and her name was Mrs Chugger or Chuggar and lived in Cherry Orchard. She had a son who refused to be known by that surname, wonder why, so changed it to Digger Molloy! I kid you not. Talking of unfortunate names there was a chap in my class at Shooters Hill school by the name of Brian Chumley. He was ribbed somewhat unfairly and eventually wrote to the BBC to ask could the characters, who were terribly bad, please have their name changed as they were the Chumleys. The programme was Dr Who....... What ever happened to a guy called mr Lambert who think lived in Langhorne? He was a very proper sort of person and a policeman I think.Another character fro Marr Hse was Bobby Smith who was a good 6 years older than me and he later ran a savings club from the bar in the Swan in Charlton Village. I believe there was some controversy towards the end of that particular savings club. Most of you have probably met my late mother at some stage in your lives because , at various stages, she worked in The British Oak ( during and after the war), The Princess of Wales for many years ( Blackheath) and the Swan in her later life. Filled with beer you probably went into the chippy in Charlton Village and, yes, she worked their too. So, at some stage my mother led you down the slippery slope of alcohol to where you are today! Still pissed. Happy days.
The policeman lived in Priory House, his daughter Jane played with my sisters. Someone came round offering 5 gallon drums of cheap petrol, no questions asked, code name was 'jungle juice". Pointed out Mr Lambert probably wouldn't want any.
We used to creep up to the Mayor's landing to peep at where the Mayor lived, wasn't Priory, I thought it was Langhorne. I thought she was the mayor! Perhaps we had another one. Had red carpet and specially polished brass handles on the landing doors.
What was the caretakers name, really good guy. Used to walk about with a long bent piece of steel he used to unblock the dustbin chutes. We once "found" an abandoned bicycle outside Wilson House. Well it hadn't moved for a day. Took it apart to make up the missing parts needed to complete the build of a couple of track bikes which were the craze. Like we had only managed to salvage some wheels at that stage. Caretaker guessed who it was and told us he wanted all the bits back by the morning and no one would get into trouble, which we did.
all those brass handles and plates got nicked one night at least in Langhorne.......'some enterprising toe rags in those days' Used to seIl the standard on a Saturday must have been when I was in the 6th form. used to pick it up from the Van at the water trough, and run around the estate.. drop of the over's to the old girl at the top of Victoria Lane, take my money and vanish till next week.. ......I think it was a 'quire' of paper's....... You had to be quick..... I had to get back home and go the Fox under the Hill or the Standard pub. and spend the lot?...... being all of 17.
I have a confession to make. As 3 of us claim said Mayor lived in their House I did some research and cannot find a Mayor of Greenwich or Woolich called Rainer or similar. he did exist and got out of chauffeur driven saloons and also wore a large gold chain around his neck but who was he? Was he actullay Mr Rainer or was the kind Lady of that name aingle and he was nothing to do with her right wing views or dripping and salt sandwiches. The plot thickens. I have enlisted the help of others and will report back when this imposter is found out.
OK I have the definitive answer re who and where the former Mayor of Greenwich lived. I was incorrect in his name but he did live in Marr Hse on the second to top floor so 6th I guess. His name was Mr Angell and he was Mayor from 1955/56. Mrs Rainer lived above him and judging by his weight and girth also fed him dripping sandwiches.
Stumbled over this site and it brought back so many memories. I was born in Rathmore Road in the 1950's, so I was one of the ones from the bottom of the hill. However we moved to Shirley House Drive on Cherry Orchard about 1966, so went up in the world. I recall the smogs, when you hear the boats fog horns, the bell at Johnson & Philips. I did paper rounds for the shop on Woolwich Road, but remember the Whybrows shop, and grumpy Mr Whybrow. He was diabetic and often had "hypos". Probably why he was so grumpy. I filled in one time on rounds for him and he actually wasn't too bad. Used to climb over the gates at The Valley. The stewards didn't seem to mind. Later on I helped Derek and Dorothy Wilding with the Supporters club and got in free if I sold some merchandise before the game, and carried the draw numbers around the pitch at halftime. Often I was pelted with stuff including peanut shells as I went round. I hung around with Peter and Paul Stephens, Colin Jones, and John Peacock, Freddy Lovering and David H..... from Dupree Road. When we moved up the hill I still saw the Stephens but saw less of Freddy and John had moved to Hampshire. I knew Chris and Lee Hazel by association with the Stephens, and was fairly grateful as they were built like brick privvies. I also knew Alan Sanford by reputation. I remember the Copps in the post office, and the chippie and the shop that turned into a "supermarket" during the sixties, somewhere near Dupree Road. I went to school at Fossdenr and the only teachers that I remember are Mis Brownjohn, Mr Grebby and Mr Kemp. He caned me for taking the afternoon off school one day. Somehow I passed the eleven plus, and probably due to my eldest brother going to Roan, I was accepted there too. I lost contact with a lot of my former friends, but kept up with the Stephens and met Keith Secker from the flats at the top of Victoria Way. Now living in Norwich with my partner and cocker spaniel. Now a fervent Norwich fan, I'm afraid, but still have a soft spot for the 'Addicks.
Anybody remember the shops in Charlton Village.......
Co-op:
Post office: with the wool shop in the back? Used to book up 'exotic coach tours' to far away places like Great Yarmouth, Lewis coaches, Timpson's was it?.My grandfather used to organise coach trips at christmas for Greenwich council employees.
Wet fish shop: Great variety of fish, the cod was wonderful, my grandmother used to make 'penny chips'.
The fish and chip shop: Used to have a funny pie machine that cooked them, remember waiting on a friday night for these.
Greengrocers: Where I used to drag back 1b's of King Edwards from, my mother used to prepare a cooked meal for my father every day, as was the standard on the estate for most working men.
Woolshop: Patterns and Wool, the 'smell' was very pungent.
The hairdressers, or the 'shearing shack'. Sam Costa playing on the radio. Durex's on the shelves, young lad's smirking when anyone bought any?. As I grew my hair this became a distant memory, but I do remember getting a 'boston' haircut.
Chemist: Those big bottles full of unimaginable horrid cough mixtures, or stuff to put up your backside!. My grandfather used to get some spices in here to make up 'ginger wine', which I used to help him make in large enamel bowls?. He used to give these out to his workmen in the council at Christmas as a thank you......
Garage: although we used to get our bikes repaired here, spokes, brake rubbers, until we got serious and went to excells in Woolwich. Like a prat I got a fixed wheel dropped handle bar bike, which I frequently came off of...... teach me to be flash.
Butchers: There used to be till that you paid at, some old biddie. I alway's expected the butcher to chop his fingers off, he never did. We had a christmas club account there, meat was available, and when you were hard up you had 'spam' or Corned beef. My mother made an excellent corn beef pie. My nan used to make Rabbit pie, a family favourite.
Sweet shop: One on the corner that sold fireworks/cards/Papers. And an old boy used to sell more expensive stuff, and fabulous licorace,fruit fish,and all the favorites in glass jars, 2ozs please.......and some shoelaces?
Pubs: Swan, Bugle.....My father drank in the Swan, although later in the Valley as it was an estate pub really.
The shops were an important part of the community and I would have a choice of Brandon's with that wonderful off-licence next door where I used to return hte bottles after Christmas?
I remember Brandon's. In summer they opened up the hatch window to serve ice creams. Also remember off licence next door. In the same parade was a Bakers ( I was born feb & my sister Jan) and we had a joint birthday party and my Mum used to order an iced cake and Bridge Rolls from the Bakers - very posh for SE7. Also the Chemist and Plimmers the Grocer along with a Ladies hairdressers and at the very end the hardware shop. My Dad used to drink at the Swan in the village- Jack McGrath was the Publican - and my Dad regularly took part in the lock in they had there. Also remember the sweet shop near Lansdowne Lane in the village. I remember being fascinated as a child by the chap there who had only one arm having lost one in the War ? El Alamein? Seem to think he was Smudger Smith but might be mixing him up with another of my Dad's many friends. Sadly no-one left to check facts with. Where do the years go?
Cherryorchard assume you grew up there as I did The Brandons lived next door to my aunt in Fairlawn Court so knew them really well and I do remember the parade of shops, my mum used to buy wool for knitting there as well. My dad used the old Liberal club (now The Newbridge) but also cleaned the windows of the The Valley when it was run by Harold Hobbis who was a miserable old git.
I walked through Fairlawn Court a little while ago on my way to the match and could pretty much recall who lived where as far as I know my cousin still lives there although I haven't seen her for 10-12 years at least. It wasn't the best place in the world but there was a sense of community and by and large most people were honest enough.
Cherryorchard assume you grew up there as I did The Brandons lived next door to my aunt in Fairlawn Court so knew them really well and I do remember the parade of shops, my mum used to buy wool for knitting there as well. My dad used the old Liberal club (now The Newbridge) but also cleaned the windows of the The Valley when it was run by Harold Hobbis who was a miserable old git.
I walked through Fairlawn Court a little while ago on my way to the match and could pretty much recall who lived where as far as I know my cousin still lives there although I haven't seen her for 10-12 years at least. It wasn't the best place in the world but there was a sense of community and by and large most people were honest enough.
I can remember going into Brandons and it seemed to have a massive counter with all sorts of magazines and papers. Sometimes I would walk up from Ellicombe Mount flats twice a day, and get the shopping for the family.( it felt as though we were feeding half the flats) If I had a few pence I would go into Brandon's and get a Jamboree bag, or the 1p counter, and wander off home, ready for the next football match, played on the lawns outside Elliscombe mount. We often used to go over to Charlton Park, and play football on the big pitches. When we moved to Springfields, my friends from Elliscombe mount came over to play on the lower playground at Springfields, or outside Erskine House. We took our bikes to Charlton park, with the ball underneath someones jumper.
Cherryorchard assume you grew up there as I did The Brandons lived next door to my aunt in Fairlawn Court so knew them really well and I do remember the parade of shops, my mum used to buy wool for knitting there as well. My dad used the old Liberal club (now The Newbridge) but also cleaned the windows of the The Valley when it was run by Harold Hobbis who was a miserable old git.
Yes you guess right - Shirley House Drive. Mum and Dad met during war when both stationed at Woolwich she was in the ATS. Married at St Peter's Woolwich 1942. Lived in Charlton Road and when they were demolished postwar they and neighbours were rehoused on new Cherry Orchard Estate. As you say not the best place in the world but good neighbours. Work started to build estate in 1945 and German POWs were used to dig foundations and preliminary work for roads and sewers. On Ancestry you can now see the London Electoral lists from 1945 to 1965. Guarantee you will not only come across familiar names but also some you had forgotten about. Going to end the history lesson now before everyone falls asleep!!
Hi Paul, Sad to hear that your father Harry and my old best mate Chris both passed away. I have some stories to tell you especially about Chris who was nearer my age. Do you want me to post these on this forum or privately? Or over a pint one day if you are local. Terry
Hi Paul, This may be a bit random as I have not formulated a list of memories in any particular order so let's go way back to first memories. I moved into Marr House when I was under a year old and lived at number 12. At number 10 lived Mike Patterson and on the floor below your father and Chris. Chris, Mike and myself became best friends and played together all the time. They were a year older than me so told me all their stories about school a year before I went so I never found school a daunting experience. Your father , Harry, was about 5 years older than me so about the same age as me next older brother Mick. My earliest memory of Harry was that he had a Triumph Tiger 125cc motorbike, which was tiny, and he used to ride it from Marr House down to the bottom playground, now garages, which was no mean fete as all grass back then. Harry was a quite fellow by comparison to others but had that inner confidence that said " ok, seen it all before" just like New Zealanders do and is regarded as very cool these days. Ahead of his time! Chris, Mike and I were virtually free to roam as we wished as the estate was fenced in and the older brothers and sisters would always keep an eye on us. There was a very famous incident some years on, previously mentioned on here, where Chris was throwing fireworks out of his window and had them all on the sill in front of him. A spark fell and lit one so you can imagine the rapid explosion of fireworks that literally put his life at risk. I'm guessing he was about 7/8 at the time. The room was illuminated with bangers and Roman candles flying everywhere and one of the older guys climbed up the outside of the flat to rescue him. He was OK but badly shaken and I'm not surprised. Chris and I both played football for the school on Saturday mornings, he was a goalkeeper, but after we would buy a Red Rover ticket which allowed us to travel anywhere on a London Bus. We still had our football shirts on and managed to get to Redhill in Surrey and back home about 9pm. As 10/11 yr olds this was not that unusual but can you imagine that happening today! Before then we used to go to Saturday morning pictures at The Roxy cinema at the Roayal Standard. Watch Charlie Chan crappy films and then a talent contest. Simon Cowell must have cut his teeth on these. Harry must have left Springfield Grove around this time as I don't recall seeing him there whilst we had all the football etc on the bottom playground. Perhaps he got married and moved out. I remember your Grandfather and one day, very sad, Chris saying that his dad had died which, at that age, you don't fully comprehend. Your Grandmother was a lovely lady who I used to get on with very well and she was a hard working lady, then a widower, trying to bring up Chris so Harry had definitely left by then. She worked until 5pm or so and Chris would come home from school and clean the flat and prepare the fire every day and only a handful of lads were allowed into the flat so I was lucky as Chris and I talked about aircraft and models we made etc for hours. He was a superb lad the way he supported your Grandmother and an example to us all of what could be achieved with work and effort in, let's face it, hard times. None of us thought we were poor as we had such a good time 'down the flats' but there were no rich families or even well off. Chris was, like Harry, a quiet unassuming soul but new what he wanted and could do. All the rest of us, and there were 40 odd lads in the flats, probably thought we were the bees knees when we reached the age of 15 or so. However, it was the unassuming Chris who turned the heads of the females and he hated it! Or rather, like the rest of us, he didn't know what to say or do but we were thankful that it was his 'problem' and not ours. Last I heard of Chris and his Mum was that they moved to Cade Tyler House on Blackheath Hill but we never met again after that which is a shame. Paul, I will remember other bits and pieces and post on here accordingly as I am just jotting these down as I think of things that happened. Much of the atmosphere of the 'flats' can be gleaned from previous posts and it was a great place to grow up as you learnt many skills with a smile on your face and I loved it. Cheers,
Terry
PS. If appropriate it would be good to hear what Harry and Chris did beyond the age of 20 or so.
hi terry on call this weekend so no computer time! thanks for post really enjoyed them will talk in depth this week again thank you so much kind regards paul.
This is a great thread! I haven't been to the Village for several years but loads of old memories have come flooding back.
I lived in Church Lane and Thorntree Road. I am amazed that Ken from Bexley remembers the drummer in the garage in Church Lane! I didn't think I would ever hear about him/her again.
My parents were Irish and Paddy the Barber was a natural ally of theirs. He would regale them with his many opinions about world politics and everything else. I wanted to look like the Beatles or the Rolling Stones but there was no chance of that with Paddy around. In any case I went to strict Catholic schools and long hair was out of the question.
Les Harding the greengrocer was a memorable character. He obviously didn't know whether to call me 'mate' or 'boy', so he called me 'mateboy'. He used to be in and out of the Bugle. At one point he was a Greenwich councillor. I know someone who went to a council meeting and he said that Les looked like he had no idea what was going on.
The man in the newsagent with one arm was Welsh. He was very friendly and helpful. I used to order Charles Buchan's Football Monthly from him, which was one of the few football magazines on sale at the time. Buchan had been an old Arsenal player and I think he came from Plumstead Common originally. I remember Deeks and Jaggs very well. Jack McGrath and his wife from the White Swan were good friends of my family and I went to school with their son.
I used to work in the Co-op in the Village in school holidays. A woman from the chip shop a few doors away used to some in a lot and buy loads of dog food. The Co-op staff used to say it went into the pies!
Les Chapman the mechanic used to work on my brother's car. Once the car wouldn't start and Les came to our house to sort it out. I heard a loud bang, looked out of the window and saw smoke rising. Les had connected the battery up the wrong way round.
As other people have said, there used to be big crowds watching football matches in Charlton Park at weekends. I remember one game where the ref got fed up of a spectator shouting at him and he tried to book the fan. He kept asking for his name and address.
In my school days I wrote to Charlton and asked for a trial. They said they would let me know. That was about 50 years ago. I am starting to think they have probably forgotten.
The mysterious drummer in the little shed/garage in church Lane! Who was he? I never saw him but heard him every Sunday afternoon I think it was. My mother worked in The Swan for a while and, no, she never bought the dog food! The milkman used to leave pints of milk outside the shops from 4am but can you imagine that happening now? Some good teams played at Charlton Park - was one of them Plumstead Maybloom?
Football at Charlton Park in the late 50s/early 60s on a Sunday (pm, as I recall) was of a high standard and use to be watched by a crowd exceeding one hundred. Plumstead Maybloom were indeed one of the best teams of that era.
I recall scrumping in the gardens of a huge house, standing back from the road at the very top of Charlton Church Lane, opposite the entrance to Springfield Grove and almost next door to the church. A high perimeter wall had to be scaled before access to both Apple and Pear trees was possible. But the thrill was worth it!
Springfield Grove was built on land formerly owned by a farmer, whose son was killed in the second WW. Apparently the farmer kept a spitfire in the grounds to remind him of his deceased son. It was always rumoured that the ghost of the son roamed the woods of Springfield Grove, but I guess this folklore was part of the vivid imagination of the kids on the estate!
Peter, the scrumping was at the vicarage, the wall was only about 4ft but to a nipper it a big climb. Did the Vicar ever come out shaking his walking stick at you?
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I also remember the owls being spotted roosting, in daylight or early evening, high up in the trees opposite Langhorne Hse. That caused quite a stir as you say. Plus your two sisters Malcolm who I think were quite studious. When I was about 14 I always wore a suit for some reason, older brothers influence I guess, and one day walked down through the flats from Marlborough Lane ( where I'd moved to) to meet the usual crowd outside Priory Hse. Terry Moseley's Dad confronted me and accused me of making some commotion or being rude when I wasn't even there! After listening to my denial he threw a full bucket of water over me. I walked home drenched and my older brothers were there and found out what happened and I swore it was nothing to do with me. So my older brother Des, who was...ummm ...a bit short tempered and could look after himself, filled a bucket and took me to Moseley's front door which duly opened and we were invited in for a chat. Big brother and Moseley ended up getting on well whilst I dripped in the corner feeling stupid. But that's how things were settled then. My older brothers were also friends with the Starbucks family who lived at the bottom of Victoria way and had a big reputation for everything. Harry ended up playing for Heathway briefly I think at some stage or is that wrong? Anyways, back in the day if you knew the right people you rarely had a lot of trouble. Didn't help me much as Dave Chapmen brother, Bob, and his gang beat the s..t out of me and I had to fein serious injury when I saw Dave Kelly was carrying an axe! Once again, after a suitable time lapse Bob and I got on fine and Dave and I never had a problem as we were at school together. It was abit like once you've paid your dues all was well.
Now I have one small observation of this forum. It is quite apparent that a number of us obviously know each other and probably quite well in some cases. I cannot recognise any of the user names so would it be a crime to disclose our full names without breaking the Data Protection Act or similar? I just thought memories would be stirred a bit quicker with proper names or at least a hint of one. If there's a way of doing this via the forum please let me know. The other reason is I might owe you money!
Cheers,
T.A.
I remember the hollow tree, which was quite exceptional. As I recall, it was rotting from within and as such you could climb it from the inside and "pop out" near the top. Quite unique.
Dave Tweedie was a gentle giant and a great follower/supporter of Heathway. Dave had few footballing skills, hence his role as "chief supporter". Heathway did run a third team, playing in a local Sunday afternoon league; Dave sometimes turned out at this level. The third team had only about 5 core players. The rest of the team came from players who had turned out in the morning for either the first or second team and who had "downed" a few pints during Sunday lunchtime in the Bugle Horn!
I had forgotten, but can confirm that Harry Starbuck played one season for Heathway. He was slightly older than the rest of us, heavier and slower, but had silky skills. He was a key player for us for that one season.
This thread reignites lost thoughts....I now remember that Kenny/Christine's father had a motor scooter with a sidecar. I can recall him taking Kenny and I to school in his vehicle. I used to sit in the sidecar and recall the wind whistling past my face. On one occasion, I was playing sword-fencing with someone, using a cricket stump as my sword. I ended up smashing his motorcycle windscreen by accident. I was absolutely petrified as how he would react; I remember Christine smoothing the way for me. I don't recall who paid for the replacement, but it wasn't me!
Anyhow, Eddue and I are intrigued as to why the game of "Cannon", as I mentioned much earlier here, has never been seen outside of the estate. Surely we were not so inventfull as to produce an exclusive game. It would actually make a good TV sport/reality game and be quite exciting!
What ever happened to Dave Shepherd Who I think lived in Priory ir Langhorne Hse? Dave Warren (Wislon Hse) went off to be a ranger for the Forestry Commission or similar in about 1968 or so.
Does anyone remember a brilliant young footballer called Dave Tullet? I think he was at Charlton Manor but not sure. I remember going to watch him play for Greenwich District and he scored a cool goal by back heeling it into the net from 5 yards. I heard he later lost an arm in a work accident and I think I also heard he passed way some time later. One of the most talented local players I had ever seen and given a break could have gone on to a better level by far. Somebody else mentioned John Davies. Would this be the John Davies who went to Charlton Manor primary school and lived in Indus Road opposite the school? John was a very good, cool, player and had height and speed. He played full back for the school back than and was in the same team as me.
Another memory flash whilst here! The headmaster of Charlton Manor used to hand out prizes at end of term and Many kids won a prize for best this or that or just being there. All banned now. I still have the chess set and the Book 101 Best Poems and The Ascent of Everest book by Sherpa Tenzing I chose over various years. Nothing to do with ability but more encouragement and it seemed to work in a funny way. Can you imagine giving prizes like that now?
My thoughts still go back to the comments of Dave Tweedie and it seems so unfair that he has gone. The big smile and clipped comment. Pete Tucker, I hear from Peter Gage, was also taken from us tragically early. Both succumbed to illnesses that should, by now, be at least controllable or cureable or is it really down to the luck of the draw.
On a lighter note - yes, the Holly Oak was a general meeting place but only for kids up to a certain age as the novelty wore off....or should have. Can anyone explain why it was hollow and still standing? There was also a tree in the gardens of Charlton Hse which we called the B52 and used to meet there at the age of 7/8 yrs old. Nothing happened there....it was just....there. There was also a guy called Ron Ball? Who was a phenomenal tree climber and would scale any tree including the huge one just outside Wilson Hse....and it was big.
There was one beautiful sight that was not exclusive to any estate locally and that was the huge flocks of Starlng birds that would swarm in the air towards the river every evening around September. I thought they were getting ready to leave for South Africa but may have been getting ready to roost in London and migrate later. Huge amounts of birds that blackened the sky which you don't see now.
In Springfield there used to be some guy that visited the estate and got us to buy/ use YoYos and we became quite adept at using them having learnt loads of tricks. Dickkhead demonstrator would show us some and, of course, we were keen to be better - and we were! Whatever happened to Derek Postel from Langhorne Hse or Janice Ellsworth and her sister also from Langhorne plus Barry Batchelor? and his sister? Just throwing some names out there amongst you.
Cheers,
T.A.
I remember my Mum shouting down the hill " Get out of that bloody tree, your getting married in an hour"
Lived opposite my family on the first floor of Langhorne Hse.
I knew John Davies, ( if it is the same guy) he went to Bloomfield, and was the captain of the school team, and I think district team player.
Got to know John in the fifth form, we used to chat up the girls ( on the 53 bus,Pat Keane from Cherry Orchard, and Louise Merritt, who later worked at Graham's Webb at Lee.) from King's Warren, along with Martin Chamberlin who lived in Elliscombe Mount.
That is classic!
We used to play Cannon out in the street when I lived in Deptford = late 50s/early 60s.
The paper lady at the top of Victoria Way ( previously mentioned) had that pitch for years and her name was Mrs Chugger or Chuggar and lived in Cherry Orchard. She had a son who refused to be known by that surname, wonder why, so changed it to Digger Molloy! I kid you not.
Talking of unfortunate names there was a chap in my class at Shooters Hill school by the name of Brian Chumley. He was ribbed somewhat unfairly and eventually wrote to the BBC to ask could the characters, who were terribly bad, please have their name changed as they were the Chumleys. The programme was Dr Who.......
What ever happened to a guy called mr Lambert who think lived in Langhorne? He was a very proper sort of person and a policeman I think.Another character fro Marr Hse was Bobby Smith who was a good 6 years older than me and he later ran a savings club from the bar
in the Swan in Charlton Village. I believe there was some controversy towards the end of that particular savings club.
Most of you have probably met my late mother at some stage in your lives because , at various stages, she worked in The British Oak ( during and after the war), The Princess of Wales for many years ( Blackheath) and the Swan in her later life. Filled with beer you probably went into the chippy in Charlton Village and, yes, she worked their too. So, at some stage my mother led you down the slippery slope of alcohol to where you are today! Still pissed. Happy days.
We used to creep up to the Mayor's landing to peep at where the Mayor lived, wasn't Priory, I thought it was Langhorne. I thought she was the mayor! Perhaps we had another one. Had red carpet and specially polished brass handles on the landing doors.
What was the caretakers name, really good guy. Used to walk about with a long bent piece of steel he used to unblock the dustbin chutes. We once "found" an abandoned bicycle outside Wilson House. Well it hadn't moved for a day. Took it apart to make up the missing parts needed to complete the build of a couple of track bikes which were the craze. Like we had only managed to salvage some wheels at that stage. Caretaker guessed who it was and told us he wanted all the bits back by the morning and no one would get into trouble, which we did.
Used to seIl the standard on a Saturday must have been when I was in the 6th form. used to pick it up from the Van at the water trough, and run around the estate.. drop of the over's to the old girl at the top of Victoria Lane, take my money and vanish till next week.. ......I think it was a 'quire' of paper's.......
You had to be quick..... I had to get back home and go the Fox under the Hill or the Standard pub. and spend the lot?...... being all of 17.
I was incorrect in his name but he did live in Marr Hse on the second to top floor so 6th I guess. His name was Mr Angell and he was Mayor from 1955/56. Mrs Rainer lived above him and judging by his weight and girth also fed him dripping sandwiches.
Now living in Norwich with my partner and cocker spaniel. Now a fervent Norwich fan, I'm afraid, but still have a soft spot for the 'Addicks.
I walked through Fairlawn Court a little while ago on my way to the match and could pretty much recall who lived where as far as I know my cousin still lives there although I haven't seen her for 10-12 years at least. It wasn't the best place in the world but there was a sense of community and by and large most people were honest enough.
regards paul jarrett
Sad to hear that your father Harry and my old best mate Chris both passed away. I have some stories to tell you especially about Chris who was nearer my age. Do you want me to post these on this forum or privately? Or over a pint one day if you are local.
Terry
This may be a bit random as I have not formulated a list of memories in any particular order so let's go way back to first memories. I moved into Marr House when I was under a year old and lived at number 12. At number 10 lived Mike Patterson and on the floor below your father and Chris. Chris, Mike and myself became best friends and played together all the time. They were a year older than me so told me all their stories about school a year before I went so I never found school a daunting experience. Your father , Harry, was about 5 years older than me so about the same age as me next older brother Mick. My earliest memory of Harry was that he had a Triumph Tiger 125cc motorbike, which was tiny, and he used to ride it from Marr House down to the bottom playground, now garages, which was no mean fete as all grass back then. Harry was a quite fellow by comparison to others but had that inner confidence that said " ok, seen it all before" just like New Zealanders do and is regarded as very cool these days. Ahead of his time!
Chris, Mike and I were virtually free to roam as we wished as the estate was fenced in and the older brothers and sisters would always keep an eye on us. There was a very famous incident some years on, previously mentioned on here, where Chris was throwing fireworks out of his window and had them all on the sill in front of him. A spark fell and lit one so you can imagine the rapid explosion of fireworks that literally put his life at risk. I'm guessing he was about 7/8 at the time. The room was illuminated with bangers and Roman candles flying everywhere and one of the older guys climbed up the outside of the flat to rescue him. He was OK but badly shaken and I'm not surprised.
Chris and I both played football for the school on Saturday mornings, he was a goalkeeper, but after we would buy a Red Rover ticket which allowed us to travel anywhere on a London Bus. We still had our football shirts on and managed to get to Redhill in Surrey and back home about 9pm. As 10/11 yr olds this was not that unusual but can you imagine that happening today!
Before then we used to go to Saturday morning pictures at The Roxy cinema at the Roayal Standard. Watch Charlie Chan crappy films and then a talent contest.
Simon Cowell must have cut his teeth on these.
Harry must have left Springfield Grove around this time as I don't recall seeing him there whilst we had all the football etc on the bottom playground. Perhaps he got married and moved out. I remember your Grandfather and one day, very sad, Chris saying that his dad had died which, at that age, you don't fully comprehend. Your Grandmother was a lovely lady who I used to get on with very well and she was a hard working lady, then a widower, trying to bring up Chris so Harry had definitely left by then. She worked until 5pm or so and Chris would come home from school and clean the flat and prepare the fire every day and only a handful of lads were allowed into the flat so I was lucky as Chris and I talked about aircraft and models we made etc for hours. He was a superb lad the way he supported your Grandmother and an example to us all of what could be achieved with work and effort in, let's face it, hard times. None of us thought we were poor as we had such a good time 'down the flats' but there were no rich families or even well off. Chris was, like Harry, a quiet unassuming soul but new what he wanted and could do. All the rest of us, and there were 40 odd lads in the flats, probably thought we were the bees knees when we reached the age of 15 or so. However, it was the unassuming Chris who turned the heads of the females and he hated it! Or rather, like the rest of us, he didn't know what to say or do but we were thankful that it was his 'problem' and not ours. Last I heard of Chris and his Mum was that they moved to Cade Tyler House on Blackheath Hill but we never met again after that which is a shame.
Paul, I will remember other bits and pieces and post on here accordingly as I am just jotting these down as I think of things that happened. Much of the atmosphere of the 'flats' can be gleaned from previous posts and it was a great place to grow up as you learnt many skills with a smile on your face and I loved it.
Cheers,
Terry
PS. If appropriate it would be good to hear what Harry and Chris did beyond the age of 20 or so.
thanks for post really enjoyed them will talk in depth this week
again thank you so much kind regards paul.
I lived in Church Lane and Thorntree Road. I am amazed that Ken from Bexley remembers the drummer in the garage in Church Lane! I didn't think I would ever hear about him/her again.
My parents were Irish and Paddy the Barber was a natural ally of theirs. He would regale them with his many opinions about world politics and everything else. I wanted to look like the Beatles or the Rolling Stones but there was no chance of that with Paddy around. In any case I went to strict Catholic schools and long hair was out of the question.
Les Harding the greengrocer was a memorable character. He obviously didn't know whether to call me 'mate' or 'boy', so he called me 'mateboy'. He used to be in and out of the Bugle. At one point he was a Greenwich councillor. I know someone who went to a council meeting and he said that Les looked like he had no idea what was going on.
The man in the newsagent with one arm was Welsh. He was very friendly and helpful. I used to order Charles Buchan's Football Monthly from him, which was one of the few football magazines on sale at the time. Buchan had been an old Arsenal player and I think he came from Plumstead Common originally. I remember Deeks and Jaggs very well. Jack McGrath and his wife from the White Swan were good friends of my family and I went to school with their son.
I used to work in the Co-op in the Village in school holidays. A woman from the chip shop a few doors away used to some in a lot and buy loads of dog food. The Co-op staff used to say it went into the pies!
Les Chapman the mechanic used to work on my brother's car. Once the car wouldn't start and Les came to our house to sort it out. I heard a loud bang, looked out of the window and saw smoke rising. Les had connected the battery up the wrong way round.
As other people have said, there used to be big crowds watching football matches in Charlton Park at weekends. I remember one game where the ref got fed up of a spectator shouting at him and he tried to book the fan. He kept asking for his name and address.
In my school days I wrote to Charlton and asked for a trial. They said they would let me know. That was about 50 years ago. I am starting to think they have probably forgotten.
I recall scrumping in the gardens of a huge house, standing back from the road at the very top of Charlton Church Lane, opposite the entrance to Springfield Grove and almost next door to the church. A high perimeter wall had to be scaled before access to both Apple and Pear trees was possible. But the thrill was worth it!
Springfield Grove was built on land formerly owned by a farmer, whose son was killed in the second WW. Apparently the farmer kept a spitfire in the grounds to remind him of his deceased son. It was always rumoured that the ghost of the son roamed the woods of Springfield Grove, but I guess this folklore was part of the vivid imagination of the kids on the estate!
the scrumping was at the vicarage, the wall was only about 4ft but to a nipper it a big climb. Did the Vicar ever come out shaking his walking stick at you?
Never saw the vicar, but do remember being observed scrumping by a female at a window, and wondering if I could get away before the Police arrived!