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New Article: Living in Charlton Village in the 1950/60s

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  • edited March 2016

    @terryall The "Curtis Gang" were a bit older than me (Malcolm Delahaye) and defended our patch against the ruffians from Cherry Orchard gang and the odd incursions from Mascalls Court trying to take over our playground

    Len Wright and his older sister Beatrice and younger brother Jimmy lived above us. Never did know what it was but sounded like they had a bowling alley in the living room.

    I think the Reid in Wilson House might be Michael Reid who was also older than me but a mad keen Addick and with me at Shooters Hill from around 1958. As a precursor to banners, he made eight red and white wooden tiles spelling out CHARLTON we took to the Valley. We leaned them up against the wall near the centre line and you had to stick your leg through the railings and stop the ball ever knocking them over when it went out of play otherwise we would lose. I always check out old photos looking at the old terrace to see if I can see them.

    Oii..we were Cherry Orchard ..ruffians indeed!

    Although, thinking about it, you are right ;-)
  • PeterGage said:

    Oh, the simplicity of football in that period! I recall going to Bristol City for an away cup game in 1960. Two goals down at half time and Sammy Lawrie got a second half hat-trick for us to win the game. One of our party had the same (?) aforementioned boards/tiles, which we held up at various times during the game.

    The next round of that cup we were drawn away to Wolves and we lost (1-0 I think), who went on to win the FA cup that year.

    Mick Reid brought me back the programme from the Bristol game, so it was probably him. The Wolves game was equivalent to us playing ManU and Willie Duff had a sensational game that nearly earned us a replay. I've still got the Bristol programme and the News of the World rave reviews for "plucky" Charlton from the Wolves game in my scrap book (bit worried it's been missing since our last house move).
  • PeterGage said:

    Oh, the simplicity of football in that period! I recall going to Bristol City for an away cup game in 1960. Two goals down at half time and Sammy Lawrie got a second half hat-trick for us to win the game. One of our party had the same (?) aforementioned boards/tiles, which we held up at various times during the game.

    The next round of that cup we were drawn away to Wolves and we lost (1-0 I think), who went on to win the FA cup that year.

    Mick Reid brought me back the programme from the Bristol game, so it was probably him. The Wolves game was equivalent to us playing ManU and Willie Duff had a sensational game that nearly earned us a replay. I've still got the Bristol programme and the News of the World rave reviews for "plucky" Charlton from the Wolves game in my scrap book (bit worried it's been missing since our last house move).
    Agreed. If my memory serves me right, Wolves nearly won the double that year, it having not been achieved for many years prior to 1960. One other interesting aspect of that FA Cup Final, when Wolves beat Blackburn Rovers 3-0; it was the era when anybody being in a offside position was penalised accordingly. I saw the full game on YouTube recently and the number of off-sides must have exceeded 50! Both defences rushed forward at every opportunity, leaving the slower-witted attackers off-side. Whatever the shortcomings may be of the current interpretation of the off-side law, I would not want to return to that interpretation.
  • terryall said:

    Hi Paul,
    This may be a bit random as I have not formulated a list of memories in any particular order so let's go way back to first memories. I moved into Marr House when I was under a year old and lived at number 12. At number 10 lived Mike Patterson and on the floor below your father and Chris. Chris, Mike and myself became best friends and played together all the time. They were a year older than me so told me all their stories about school a year before I went so I never found school a daunting experience. Your father , Harry, was about 5 years older than me so about the same age as me next older brother Mick. My earliest memory of Harry was that he had a Triumph Tiger 125cc motorbike, which was tiny, and he used to ride it from Marr House down to the bottom playground, now garages, which was no mean fete as all grass back then. Harry was a quite fellow by comparison to others but had that inner confidence that said " ok, seen it all before" just like New Zealanders do and is regarded as very cool these days. Ahead of his time!
    Chris, Mike and I were virtually free to roam as we wished as the estate was fenced in and the older brothers and sisters would always keep an eye on us. There was a very famous incident some years on, previously mentioned on here, where Chris was throwing fireworks out of his window and had them all on the sill in front of him. A spark fell and lit one so you can imagine the rapid explosion of fireworks that literally put his life at risk. I'm guessing he was about 7/8 at the time. The room was illuminated with bangers and Roman candles flying everywhere and one of the older guys climbed up the outside of the flat to rescue him. He was OK but badly shaken and I'm not surprised.
    Chris and I both played football for the school on Saturday mornings, he was a goalkeeper, but after we would buy a Red Rover ticket which allowed us to travel anywhere on a London Bus. We still had our football shirts on and managed to get to Redhill in Surrey and back home about 9pm. As 10/11 yr olds this was not that unusual but can you imagine that happening today!
    Before then we used to go to Saturday morning pictures at The Roxy cinema at the Roayal Standard. Watch Charlie Chan crappy films and then a talent contest.
    Simon Cowell must have cut his teeth on these.
    Harry must have left Springfield Grove around this time as I don't recall seeing him there whilst we had all the football etc on the bottom playground. Perhaps he got married and moved out. I remember your Grandfather and one day, very sad, Chris saying that his dad had died which, at that age, you don't fully comprehend. Your Grandmother was a lovely lady who I used to get on with very well and she was a hard working lady, then a widower, trying to bring up Chris so Harry had definitely left by then. She worked until 5pm or so and Chris would come home from school and clean the flat and prepare the fire every day and only a handful of lads were allowed into the flat so I was lucky as Chris and I talked about aircraft and models we made etc for hours. He was a superb lad the way he supported your Grandmother and an example to us all of what could be achieved with work and effort in, let's face it, hard times. None of us thought we were poor as we had such a good time 'down the flats' but there were no rich families or even well off. Chris was, like Harry, a quiet unassuming soul but new what he wanted and could do. All the rest of us, and there were 40 odd lads in the flats, probably thought we were the bees knees when we reached the age of 15 or so. However, it was the unassuming Chris who turned the heads of the females and he hated it! Or rather, like the rest of us, he didn't know what to say or do but we were thankful that it was his 'problem' and not ours. Last I heard of Chris and his Mum was that they moved to Cade Tyler House on Blackheath Hill but we never met again after that which is a shame.
    Paul, I will remember other bits and pieces and post on here accordingly as I am just jotting these down as I think of things that happened. Much of the atmosphere of the 'flats' can be gleaned from previous posts and it was a great place to grow up as you learnt many skills with a smile on your face and I loved it.
    Cheers,

    Terry

    PS. If appropriate it would be good to hear what Harry and Chris did beyond the age of 20 or so.

  • hi terry,sorry for late reply,yes nan and uncle chris moved to cade tyler house,my dad met my mum and they moved to cornwall in the early 60s,they had three children by 1969 then moved back to plumstead,chris stayed single living with nan.my dad secured a job at express diaries blackheath,later chris also worked there,my little sister was born in 1973,completing my family.my dad worked as a milkman for express dairy till the ninetys.chris and nan moved to cornwall in 1997.
  • Terry,spoke to my mum,chris was still in contact with bobby paine throughout the eighties into the nineties.
  • Just come across this website -
    www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/EAW005420

    Fascinating aerial shots of Cherry Ochard Estate under construction. My old home Shirley House Drive had not yet been built. My parents were rehoused from flat in Charlton Road. Were in Marlborough Lodge an old house at top of Victoria Way (demolished for Springfield Estate). You can also see the shops at the top of Victoria Way (Brandons etc). Also to the left Our Lady of Grace Church and Presbytery.

    Lots of others of interest too.


    Prefabricated housing under construction around Rectory Field Crescent, Rectory Field and environs, Charlton, 1947. This image was marked by Aerofilms Ltd for photo editing. - Britain from Above

    /
  • Thank you cherryorchard, I lived in Rectory Field Crescent and have never seen these pictures, very interesting
  • Just come across this website -
    www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/EAW005420

    Fascinating aerial shots of Cherry Ochard Estate under construction. My old home Shirley House Drive had not yet been built. My parents were rehoused from flat in Charlton Road. Were in Marlborough Lodge an old house at top of Victoria Way (demolished for Springfield Estate). You can also see the shops at the top of Victoria Way (Brandons etc). Also to the left Our Lady of Grace Church and Presbytery.

    Lots of others of interest too.


    Prefabricated housing under construction around Rectory Field Crescent, Rectory Field and environs, Charlton, 1947. This image was marked by Aerofilms Ltd for photo editing. - Britain from Above

    /

    Brilliant pic, I lived in Blaker Court then Fairlawn Court. In that pic, they are still not built.
  • edited June 2016
    stonemuse said:

    Just come across this website -
    www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/EAW005420

    Fascinating aerial shots of Cherry Ochard Estate under construction. My old home Shirley House Drive had not yet been built. My parents were rehoused from flat in Charlton Road. Were in Marlborough Lodge an old house at top of Victoria Way (demolished for Springfield Estate). You can also see the shops at the top of Victoria Way (Brandons etc). Also to the left Our Lady of Grace Church and Presbytery.

    Lots of others of interest too.


    Prefabricated housing under construction around Rectory Field Crescent, Rectory Field and environs, Charlton, 1947. This image was marked by Aerofilms Ltd for photo editing. - Britain from Above

    /

    Brilliant pic, I lived in Blaker Court then Fairlawn Court. In that pic, they are still not built.
    If you register on the site you can zoom in on the images.
    The funny thing is it seemed to me, as a child ,that the flats seemed old and the stairways and landings a bit creepy, when in fact they were new. The Queen (then Princess Elizabeth) and Prince Philip visited a flat in Shirley House Drive in 1948 and according to the Times June 25 1948: 'The tenant was Mr Herbert Smith a fruit salesman in Greenwich Market, and he and Mrs Smith who have three children, showed the Princess over their home'. (Must have taken all of five minutes!)
    Somewhat bizarrely, The Times also reported on August 6 1958 that a 12 year old boy Christopher Fatherly of Blaker Court underwent an emergency operation in hospital after a bomb he had been making at his home exploded in his face.
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  • June 1960 (I think) - Annual Corpus Christi Processsion from Our Lady of Grace as it progressed up the Charlton Road at its junction with Fairlawn Estate.
  • June 1960 (I think) - Annual Corpus Christi Processsion from Our Lady of Grace as it progressed up the Charlton Road at its junction with Fairlawn Estate.

    I am pretty certain that I am in the 2nd picture, one of the altar boys from Our Lady of Grace church.
  • stonemuse said:

    June 1960 (I think) - Annual Corpus Christi Processsion from Our Lady of Grace as it progressed up the Charlton Road at its junction with Fairlawn Estate.

    I am pretty certain that I am in the 2nd picture, one of the altar boys from Our Lady of Grace church.
    And I am pretty certain that I am one of the little girls in my First Communion Dress in the same pic!
    I recognise a few faces of the adults:Father Walter, Mr Hobbs (near the canopy) who lived on Springfield Estate. Others are familiar but I can't put names to them
  • Have been doing a lot of reading up recently on old Charlton. Come across this picture - imagine the 1930s houses in the background are Marlborough Lane. Hard to imagine that a few months later the Luftwaffe would be overhead and 10 years later flats would be there. As a child you accept street names - never thought why the Council Estate was called Cherry Orchard Estate. It was just a name and it never occurred to me that it was formerly a fruit farm.

    Great pic, where did you find it?
  • Wonderful photos cherryorchard.
  • http://www.licensestorehouse.com/a-tractor-ploughing-a-cherry-orchard-in-charlton-london/print/10989463.html

    Our flat was in up the top end overlooking Cherry Orchard School and right up by Marlborough Lane. I think the photographer was either standing around what became Fairlawn or possibly is a little further up in what is now Cherry Orchard School?
  • http://www.licensestorehouse.com/a-tractor-ploughing-a-cherry-orchard-in-charlton-london/print/10989463.html

    Our flat was in up the top end overlooking Cherry Orchard School and right up by Marlborough Lane. I think the photographer was either standing around what became Fairlawn or possibly is a little further up in what is now Cherry Orchard School?

    http://www.licensestorehouse.com/a-tractor-ploughing-a-cherry-orchard-in-charlton-london/print/10989463.html

    Our flat was in up the top end overlooking Cherry Orchard School and right up by Marlborough Lane. I think the photographer was either standing around what became Fairlawn or possibly is a little further up in what is now Cherry Orchard School?

    I lived in Blaker Court and Fairlawn Court.
  • I'm not in this picture but can recognise some of the kids. Mr Grebby to the Left and Mr Kemp to the right. Michael Kelly and John Peacock in front row. I think one of them is a Kinsey too. 1960 Fossdene School football team.
  • great thread, I lived on Blaker Court from about 75-78
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  • For anyone in reminiscent mood from page 7 onwards there is a fine discussion about a wonderful photograph taken a half-century ago - CAFC vs Rotherham Easter 1968. The same result (4-1) this arvo would be most welcome.

  • For anyone in reminiscent mood from page 7 onwards there is a fine discussion about a wonderful photograph taken a half-century ago - CAFC vs Rotherham Easter 1968. The same result (4-1) this arvo would be most welcome.

    Thanks for that, I had a quick read and it brought back some memories of the game, standing in the covered end in the sunshine, watching us win and one in particular which I don’t seem to have shared was my family were supposed to go to an in laws house that morning for an all day lunch and general get together with aunts, uncles, cousins (Britain didn’t do bar b q’s in those days). I was 12 and desperate to go to the game so after a lot of pestering it was finally agreed I could go to the game and get a train to meet up with them afterwards. It wasn’t until I was walking up Floyd Road to the station after the game that I gave a thought as to where I was supposed to be going. I must have left the house in such a rush when they said I could go to the game I couldn’t even remember the fcking station I was supposed to be travelling to. Luckily my parents had already figured that I wouldn’t remember or have a clue and as I got to the top of the road my dad was standing there waiting for me.
  • Was at the game with my Dad (RIP) and the season before one of my favourite ever seasons1968/9.Would certainty settle for the same result for us today.Happy days
  • Is this thread still running? Where is everyone?
  • terryall said:
    Is this thread still running? Where is everyone?
    Hanging about at the top of Vicky way.
  • terryall said:
    Is this thread still running? Where is everyone?
    Hanging about at the top of Vicky way.
    Waiting for my pink classified on Saturday evening  :)
  • Thanks for the memories.
    I understand this thread is years old and looks to be mainly dormant but nevertheless I would like to mention a few names of people who were a big part of my early years.

    A look from the 5th floor Langhorne House. 1952-1966

    My eldest brother Brian (1947), hated all sports, loved motorcycles, the guitar, Elvis and later Bob Dylan and strangely enough became a decent golfer.

    Dennis (1950), West Ham supporter, hopeless at most sports, he was more arty. He started life as a motor mechanic, met and married an American and sodded off to California and became an award winning Architect. Married twice both wives millionaires. Hate him!!!

    Valerie (1961), my abiding memories of my young sister was mum making me take her up the swing park whilst my friends were out playing football, I did eventually forgive both of them.

    And me Raymond (1952). Lapsed Wolves supporter, loved football as a child and was at my very, very best partnered with Terry Allen in the school playground playing against all comers (with a tennis ball) unfortunately I went downhill after the age of about 11.

    People in our block as I recall were :-
    George Martin who later in life, I think, married a girl also from our block with the same family name of Martin.He was the boy who carried me up to my flat when I fell from a tree.
    Burka ? he had many tattoos, cut on the dotted line being one, a friend to my brother Brian.
    Mrs Watson our next door neighbour.
    David Baldwin,Derek Postill, Bernie Batchlor, all friends with my brother Dennis and more inclined to fishing than football.
    Peter Gage was football mad, he’s probably to modest to say but I can recall him keeping the ball up heading it from the bottom playground to our flats.
    Gillian and Sonia? Ellsworth went to the same school, Charlton Manor primary, as did many of the children.

    From the adjacent block two other families were very close mates to our group, Steve Chitty, he was equally happy fishing or footballing and has been my closest friend (best man) since childhood he has an elder brother Billy and younger brother and sister (Derek I think) I’ve only ever called him Dexi and Georgina.
    Ronnie and Colin Savage who’s family would holiday with our family and  I think had three sisters Janice,Glenice and one other. I once saw Ronnie drink a dozen raw eggs on stage in the Fox, try it, it ain’t easy.

    If my brain allows I will try to recount some stories from the past.
    Stay safe.
     





  • RayLa said:
    Thanks for the memories.
    I understand this thread is years old and looks to be mainly dormant but nevertheless I would like to mention a few names of people who were a big part of my early years.

    A look from the 5th floor Langhorne House. 1952-1966

    My eldest brother Brian (1947), hated all sports, loved motorcycles, the guitar, Elvis and later Bob Dylan and strangely enough became a decent golfer.

    Dennis (1950), West Ham supporter, hopeless at most sports, he was more arty. He started life as a motor mechanic, met and married an American and sodded off to California and became an award winning Architect. Married twice both wives millionaires. Hate him!!!

    Valerie (1961), my abiding memories of my young sister was mum making me take her up the swing park whilst my friends were out playing football, I did eventually forgive both of them.

    And me Raymond (1952). Lapsed Wolves supporter, loved football as a child and was at my very, very best partnered with Terry Allen in the school playground playing against all comers (with a tennis ball) unfortunately I went downhill after the age of about 11.

    People in our block as I recall were :-
    George Martin who later in life, I think, married a girl also from our block with the same family name of Martin.He was the boy who carried me up to my flat when I fell from a tree.
    Burka ? he had many tattoos, cut on the dotted line being one, a friend to my brother Brian.
    Mrs Watson our next door neighbour.
    David Baldwin,Derek Postill, Bernie Batchlor, all friends with my brother Dennis and more inclined to fishing than football.
    Peter Gage was football mad, he’s probably to modest to say but I can recall him keeping the ball up heading it from the bottom playground to our flats.
    Gillian and Sonia? Ellsworth went to the same school, Charlton Manor primary, as did many of the children.

    From the adjacent block two other families were very close mates to our group, Steve Chitty, he was equally happy fishing or footballing and has been my closest friend (best man) since childhood he has an elder brother Billy and younger brother and sister (Derek I think) I’ve only ever called him Dexi and Georgina.
    Ronnie and Colin Savage who’s family would holiday with our family and  I think had three sisters Janice,Glenice and one other. I once saw Ronnie drink a dozen raw eggs on stage in the Fox, try it, it ain’t easy.

    If my brain allows I will try to recount some stories from the past.
    Stay safe.
     





    Hi Ray

    Hope you are keeping well. Your memory of the  names of our neighbours is excellent, many of whom, I had long forgotten!

    I have made contact some years back , via FB, with your brother Dennis.
  • Hi Peter, all is good, much the same as everyone, watching endless reruns of how we won the Ashes or Ryder cup. 
    Hope all’s well with you and your family. 


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