Jeez - just found this thread and it brought back loads of memories like those of Dave Rudd and DaveAddick.
I lived in Phipps House on the corner of Victoria Road and Woolwich Road from 1958 to 1966, when we went up-market to Eltham. Me and my brother John (Davis) with mates such as Freddie Warner, John Parker and Brian Dawson used to play football on the green next to News the grocers. I used to help build the bonfire on the dump too.
I went to Fossdene Infants and have few memories of the teachers there but then went to Sherington 1962-1966. My first teacher was Miss Morgan who was very pretty, and I remember Mr Harris, Mr Skinner and Mr Charman. I also learned to swim in the school swimming pool - which was an amazing innovation in those days.
I went to Eltham Green 1966-1971, and my favourite teacher was Mr Topliss, in English. Great bloke.
I wasn't a great footballer though I played in Sunday league teams. My brother John played for Greenwich Borough (as did my uncle Nobby Foster in the early 60s) on a saturday afternoon and then Eltham Hill on a sunday.
Did your brother go to school at Bloomfield, and a friend of his die in a football match, ?
If so I knew him quite well, as he used to get off the 53 in the Village,although he was in the top stream, at Bloomfield........ never seen him since school days?
Did your brother go to school at Bloomfield, and a friend of his die in a football match, ?
If so I knew him quite well, as he used to get off the 53 in the Village,although he was in the top stream, at Bloomfield........ never seen him since school days?
Not sure if this is aimed at me, Ken? Not sure why Micmat copied my old post again either.....?
Anyway, if it is a question for me, then no. John went to Blackheath and Bluecoats and would never in a million years be in the top stream at school, bless him :-)
Thanks I thought so...... As he was more of a friend to my old mate at Elliscombe mount, and we only really got together for the last year in the 5th form....... I stayed at school doing my 'A' levels....... The John Davies I knew was a very talented footballer, but never saw the guy play as I had been dropped by the school team at that stage, and only played really for fun on the estate. I think it was at this stage that my interest in football seemed to wain as I was into being an art student, or aspiring art student, and the world of art and progressive rock seemed a lot more seductive than being a 'skin head' on the estate. Still going to Camberwell art school on a Saturday morning had it's compensations...... with all those young woman? God did I suffer for my art!..........
Thanks I thought so...... As he was more of a friend to my old mate at Elliscombe mount, and we only really got together for the last year in the 5th form....... I stayed at school doing my 'A' levels....... The John Davies I knew was a very talented footballer, but never saw the guy play as I had been dropped by the school team at that stage, and only played really for fun on the estate. I think it was at this stage that my interest in football seemed to wain as I was into being an art student, or aspiring art student, and the world of art and progressive rock seemed a lot more seductive than being a 'skin head' on the estate. Still going to Camberwell art school on a Saturday morning had it's compensations...... with all those young woman? God did I suffer for my art!..........
Is this the same John Davies that played for Samuel Montague?
Is this thread still alive? It's been fascinating reading and brought back loads of names of people I grew up with or knew very well. I see Peter Gage contributed - very good footballer and I learnt many things about football from him, Pete is slightly older, by watching him closely when we played in Springfield Grove where we both lived. I grew up in Marr House and spent far too much time with Tony Swain etc and drinking in the Bugle and Valley pubs for a healthy living. Also played for Springcourt and Heathway. In fact I got signed up by Springcourt even though they had no second team and I was a bit young for the first who had Pete Tucker, Colin Baker, Pete Gage playing. Laurie Gage was manager then and we met each week at Charlton House where a Mr Jennings lived with his two corgis. Does anyone remember a game we played, mostly outside Wilson House, called Canon or Cannon. Anything up to 40 of us played and it went on for a couple of days sometimes. Never seen it played outside of Springfield Grove! Even before then and younger at least 30 or more of us would meet at Marr House each Saturday morning for a game of "run outs" which was two teams of 15 or so but we also dressed as cowboys with guns strapped to our legs and believed we were riding horses. Heathway players I played with were Roger Parnell, Chris Amerstoy, Mick Noonan, Paul Arnold,Tony Russell, Les Davey, Mark Fermolli, Colin O'Keefe to name a few. I believe I was even captain for a while which beggars belief! Someone mentioned earlier a girl with long black hair and called Wale. Could this be Linda Wale (Whale) who lived in Priory House? The green grocers was indeed Hardings and his nickname was Spud as previously mentioned. He continuously muttered to himself and only stopped to pop into the Bugle. The bike shop, wet fish shop, fish n chip shop where my mother worked early 1960s and the butchers/ grocery store opposite St Lukes that delivered your larger purchases in a big box on the front of his butchers fixed wheel bike. Hard work. Lots of memories of the big fires on Bon fire night where the fire brigade were often called late on and we collected and stored wood weeks before and kept a lot in the fire escape of Priory House with the help of Lenny Wrights dad. One time the cradles were left hanging outside Priory House whilst they decorated the exterior. A long, long rope hung from the roof to the ground so we attached Tony Swain to it and pulled like mad. Tony was flown up in the air at great speed, and danger, and his father looked out the window to see his son flying past him on the third floor or so. Great times indeed. I've still got loads of memories of the estate and the football teams we played for later,Springcourt, Heathway, Samuel Montagues, Catford Utd, Deptford. So, if this thread is still up and running I can add some names and stories if you wish.
Is this thread still alive? It's been fascinating reading and brought back loads of names of people I grew up with or knew very well. I see Peter Gage contributed - very good footballer and I learnt many things about football from him, Pete is slightly older, by watching him closely when we played in Springfield Grove where we both lived. I grew up in Marr House and spent far too much time with Tony Swain etc and drinking in the Bugle and Valley pubs for a healthy living. Also played for Springcourt and Heathway. In fact I got signed up by Springcourt even though they had no second team and I was a bit young for the first who had Pete Tucker, Colin Baker, Pete Gage playing. Laurie Gage was manager then and we met each week at Charlton House where a Mr Jennings lived with his two corgis. Does anyone remember a game we played, mostly outside Wilson House, called Canon or Cannon. Anything up to 40 of us played and it went on for a couple of days sometimes. Never seen it played outside of Springfield Grove! Even before then and younger at least 30 or more of us would meet at Marr House each Saturday morning for a game of "run outs" which was two teams of 15 or so but we also dressed as cowboys with guns strapped to our legs and believed we were riding horses. Heathway players I played with were Roger Parnell, Chris Amerstoy, Mick Noonan, Paul Arnold,Tony Russell, Les Davey, Mark Fermolli, Colin O'Keefe to name a few. I believe I was even captain for a while which beggars belief! Someone mentioned earlier a girl with long black hair and called Wale. Could this be Linda Wale (Whale) who lived in Priory House? The green grocers was indeed Hardings and his nickname was Spud as previously mentioned. He continuously muttered to himself and only stopped to pop into the Bugle. The bike shop, wet fish shop, fish n chip shop where my mother worked early 1960s and the butchers/ grocery store opposite St Lukes that delivered your larger purchases in a big box on the front of his butchers fixed wheel bike. Hard work. Lots of memories of the big fires on Bon fire night where the fire brigade were often called late on and we collected and stored wood weeks before and kept a lot in the fire escape of Priory House with the help of Lenny Wrights dad. One time the cradles were left hanging outside Priory House whilst they decorated the exterior. A long, long rope hung from the roof to the ground so we attached Tony Swain to it and pulled like mad. Tony was flown up in the air at great speed, and danger, and his father looked out the window to see his son flying past him on the third floor or so. Great times indeed. I've still got loads of memories of the estate and the football teams we played for later,Springcourt, Heathway, Samuel Montagues, Catford Utd, Deptford. So, if this thread is still up and running I can add some names and stories if you wish.
Welcome Terry.
Please add your names and stories. There are plenty of us who will be interested.
Is this thread still alive? It's been fascinating reading and brought back loads of names of people I grew up with or knew very well. I see Peter Gage contributed - very good footballer and I learnt many things about football from him, Pete is slightly older, by watching him closely when we played in Springfield Grove where we both lived. I grew up in Marr House and spent far too much time with Tony Swain etc and drinking in the Bugle and Valley pubs for a healthy living. Also played for Springcourt and Heathway. In fact I got signed up by Springcourt even though they had no second team and I was a bit young for the first who had Pete Tucker, Colin Baker, Pete Gage playing. Laurie Gage was manager then and we met each week at Charlton House where a Mr Jennings lived with his two corgis. Does anyone remember a game we played, mostly outside Wilson House, called Canon or Cannon. Anything up to 40 of us played and it went on for a couple of days sometimes. Never seen it played outside of Springfield Grove! Even before then and younger at least 30 or more of us would meet at Marr House each Saturday morning for a game of "run outs" which was two teams of 15 or so but we also dressed as cowboys with guns strapped to our legs and believed we were riding horses. Heathway players I played with were Roger Parnell, Chris Amerstoy, Mick Noonan, Paul Arnold,Tony Russell, Les Davey, Mark Fermolli, Colin O'Keefe to name a few. I believe I was even captain for a while which beggars belief! Someone mentioned earlier a girl with long black hair and called Wale. Could this be Linda Wale (Whale) who lived in Priory House? The green grocers was indeed Hardings and his nickname was Spud as previously mentioned. He continuously muttered to himself and only stopped to pop into the Bugle. The bike shop, wet fish shop, fish n chip shop where my mother worked early 1960s and the butchers/ grocery store opposite St Lukes that delivered your larger purchases in a big box on the front of his butchers fixed wheel bike. Hard work. Lots of memories of the big fires on Bon fire night where the fire brigade were often called late on and we collected and stored wood weeks before and kept a lot in the fire escape of Priory House with the help of Lenny Wrights dad. One time the cradles were left hanging outside Priory House whilst they decorated the exterior. A long, long rope hung from the roof to the ground so we attached Tony Swain to it and pulled like mad. Tony was flown up in the air at great speed, and danger, and his father looked out the window to see his son flying past him on the third floor or so. Great times indeed. I've still got loads of memories of the estate and the football teams we played for later,Springcourt, Heathway, Samuel Montagues, Catford Utd, Deptford. So, if this thread is still up and running I can add some names and stories if you wish.
Welcome Terry.
Please add your names and stories. There are plenty of us who will be interested.
Yes indeed. It's funny how everyone knew Big Rog Parnell. I wonder what he's doing now.?
Terry, we must have been knocking around at the same time, your name rings a bell. Mick Noonan, Mick Gasson and me (Malcolm Delahaye) used to knock about often went fishing at Horton Kirby. Mick Noonan's dad was a commando in the War and, remember being well impressed with the weapons he'd captured and brought home, Mick used to fetch them from his dad's wardrobe and show us these swastika SS daggers and guns. His dad had a wooden leg but didn't stop him riding his bike up Church Lane every day after work. Remember he had a 16mm cine projector and we would have a film show when Mick had his birthday parties.
After Charlton Manor I went off to Shooters Hill and most other lads went off to Roan, Bloomfield or Woolwich Poly, so gradually made different friends. There was an older boy who was in Wilson House who went to Shooters Hill, Mickey Green, he was a massive Addick.
I lived in Priory House, Linda Whale lived above, Tony Swain and his brother Alan lived next door. Eddie Curtain lived below and eternal memory of those times was Eddie Curtain, whose dad was a tough as nails Irish labourer, beating Eddie with a bloody great leather belt as he chased him up and down the estate.
Robbing gas meters was a common petty crime on the estate. Our gas meter was broken into one day, suspicion fell on one of our neighbours who had a key to our house. My mum had to leave early to get to work at Cork 'n Seal so a few neighbours had keys to come and go looking after us when mum was at work.
Why did the council give us a playground shaped like a triangle covered in razor sharp granite chips for playing football? Imagine playing on a pitch where one goal was in front of the corner flag, and the other one on the centre circle. Lucky if the Frido plastic ball wasn't shredded inside ten minutes, in which case you played on with a plastic pancake.
Could this be Linda Wale (Whale) who lived in Priory House? One of the girls Remember, Susan Smith.....she had one of those leather mod coats... The 2 best looking girls on the estate.
I was the guy with the long hair, playing down on the lower playground, Tony Swain was crap at football and I went to school ( Bloomfield) with him. If you see him get my ***kin jimmy Hendrix hits album back. The git borrowed it for a party, never got it back. Never really, got on with Tony...... Remember Peter Gage, and Paul Arnold. Some of the lads I used to hang about were older, and left school at 15, ended up as paint sprayers, and there like. There was a lad, Bobby Paine, who had the first car in the group, a red escort van I think. We used to go down to Charlton in the afternoon. Sunday morning was the big football match, on that asphelt playground, with the small goals. I used to hang around with Mick McCarthey, Kerry Hills, Mick Jackamon, a lot of West ham fans there........ and one of the Baylis boys. Roger Parnell lived next door in Langhorne House.....think he got a job at the GPO, as it was it was in those days. Stopped playing at 16/17. Big Roger, and Big Mick, Remember Eddie Curtain, got thrown of the garage roof, on his back.
Yes that was Linda Whale. I think you might mean Susan Smithers who lived in Mar House, she had a sister Evelyn, I knew them quite well, our parents were friends. Mick McArthy bought my 1952 Ford Popular, when he got bored with it he said farewell by sending it careering down the hill into the trees.
Yes that was Linda Whale. I think you might mean Susan Smithers who lived in Mar House, she had a sister Evelyn, I knew them quite well, our parents were friends. Mick McArthy bought my 1952 Ford Popular, when he got bored with it he said farewell by sending it careering down the hill into the trees.
Yes, you are right regarding Sue, ( should have remembered I used to go out with her briefly) Her father was a 'lodge member', if I recall. They had a TV that was on a pay meter!..... funny I can remember that..... Not sure he approved of me...... Mick's sister was Sonia, I think he lived in one of the flats at the top of Springfield. Went to school at Eltham Green. Same class as 'Mrs Ken' ..... Sounds as though you might know my brother Graham, had blond hair.......
My God, too much information to recall! Thanks all for replying so quick. Malcolm, I remember you well and to put things in perspective I think you are about 3 years older than me so that would make you the same age as Mick Noonan? I also went to Shooters Hill after Charlton Manor Primary and that would have been in 1963 I think ( Clark House). As you say - you meet different people and all part of growing up.....or not. Bobby Paine was a good 4/5 years, or more, older than me. He was in the older brother age group like Bobby Curtis (Marr House) who I think became a policeman. Bobby used to come back to Marr House at lunchtime and take me for a ride on the crossbar of his bike until one day he pulled the front brake going over the metal grid outside Langhorne Hse and we fell heavily onto the iron grid, face down, and I chipped a front tooth. Thereby the name " Chip" came from. That's why I know he is older than me. Also slightly older was a guy Jimmy/Bobby Fox ? (Also Priory Hse) plus a few more who played guitar and on the odd Saturday night would play on the bottom playground with guitar, a bass made from a wooden moving crate with a broom handle through it and sing a few songs surrounded by an admiring crowd! That must have been 1957 or so when I would have been 5 and older brothers all had motorbikes. I saw plenty of pre arranged fights take place there and oddly enough mostly between females! I'm pretty sure you may be mixing up Mick Noonan's father with Boobby/Pete/Alan Hanson's father from Priory Hse as he had a wooden leg. Mr Noonan never did and I virtually lived at their house as a teenager and heard nothing about daggers etc. For some reason I remember you as a good swimmer! Maybe because of the times everyone went to the Lido and I was younger and a rubbish swimmer so just stayed at home and played football against a wall. Learnt great ball control though! I'm still in regular contact with Eddie Curtin and am God Father to one of his daughters and vice versa. He became a very good footballer and played for Ashford. The big Sunday football match was bit too much for me as I think I was just a couple of years too young but started to play in them a bit later. I have been in contact today with Peter Gage who, he doesn't know this, I learnt a lot about football from early on by watching him and the best thing he told me was was " don't dive in". Defending became easy after that. I honestly believe we had the best bonfires in South London. Brilliant evenings but a bit dangerous. Ken, last I heard re Tony Swain was he lived in Eltham and he had some heart problems. Tony was a good lad though . Re Susan Smithers and her sister Evelyn - you are correct Ken. I think I remember them both moving into Marr Hse after I moved out when I was 7 yrs old (1959) and moved to Marlborough Lane. We swapped houses with the Cann family. I think I remember Evelyn being a little shy compared to Susan. I'm not sure if I remember your brother Graham. The problem is that everyone uses a user name but I do remember surnames. Mick McArthy would be a little younger than me I think and after so may years it's difficult to remember the different teirs in age. Funny guy though and very likeable disposition. I think I may go back and make a few posts about the very early days that I remember of Springfield Grove and work my way though to the heady heights of Heathway FC and beyond. In between it all it may shake a few more memories. Just for the record I was welcomed to the forum by Len Glover. Is this a user name or could it be the original flying legend of the left wing Len Glover who I merrily cheered as a kid?
Leading on from Terry's articulate piece..... Springfield Grove was a fun place to be brought up as a kid; the woods, two playgrounds (one an extremely odd shape as previously mentioned). Estates these days could not afford to be built with such amenities. Life was tough; post-war austerity was rife and we did not have the proverbial two pennies to rub together. That did not stop us from having a very happy childhood. Football was rife and competitive in the winter and cricket less so in the summer. I never spent anymore time indoors than was necessary.
Terry was a few years younger than me and his ball skills were, to quote an oft used phrase, "ten years ahead of his time". I remember sometimes getting a bit frustrated with him because he would not pass the ball! He had more basic skills than most. Heathway FC was great fun, which I joined on the club entering it's first year of competitive football. The team was largely made up of players from Springfield and the adjoining estates. Social media, of which this site is one, has allowed me to track down an keep in touch in my latter years with players of that era; George West, Gordon Bridges, Keith White, John Elphick, Colin Milligan and John Himbury. I feel a bit sad that I cannot track down other like Colin Baker, Ken Coleman etc. It is also good from chatting to these guys to establish that they have made their way in life, some moving to the four corners of the UK (and Texas, in the case of John Elphick) and seem very content.
On a sadder note, it is inevitable that some have departed this world. Lawrie Gage, Pete Tucker and Dave Tweedie.
During my latter teen years and at the same time as Heathway playing competitive football, The Valley Public House was built and the first landlord was an ex Charlton and England player named Harold Hobbis. Sadly Harry's career was cut short in his prime (pre-war) by a broken leg; in those days a broken leg inevitably finished the career of a footballer. He always seemed a grumpy man to me (understandably so) but was very pleased when we (Heathway) celebrated winning the cup in our first year. He filled our cup with some sort of alcohol, which seemed out of character with his general demeanour.
I return to The Valley regularly from my home in North Buckinghamshire and feel sad with the way the area is generally run down. It doesn't have the feeling of a fun place to live anymore, but maybe my initial feelings are through eyes and mind of a youth with rose-tinted glasses. The aforementioned playground in Springfield is a now a set of garages and openly-parked run down cars.
I have been lucky in my life to have lived in Charlton in that era and lucky to have moved on to a comfortable life. The current generation don't seem to be so carefree and happy, struggling to find employment, never being able to dream of a mortgage as a ladder to better things in later life. Misty eyes prevail as I finish this piece.
As I have now closed my Flickr account, many of the original photos that were linked from this thread have now disappeared, so here they are again. Apart from the Village, there are some other local-ish ones that people might find interesting or nostalgic.
My God, too much information to recall! Thanks all for replying so quick. Malcolm, I remember you well and to put things in perspective I think you are about 3 years older than me so that would make you the same age as Mick Noonan? I also went to Shooters Hill after Charlton Manor Primary and that would have been in 1963 I think ( Clark House). As you say - you meet different people and all part of growing up.....or not. Bobby Paine was a good 4/5 years, or more, older than me. He was in the older brother age group like Bobby Curtis (Marr House) who I think became a policeman. Bobby used to come back to Marr House at lunchtime and take me for a ride on the crossbar of his bike until one day he pulled the front brake going over the metal grid outside Langhorne Hse and we fell heavily onto the iron grid, face down, and I chipped a front tooth. Thereby the name " Chip" came from. That's why I know he is older than me. Also slightly older was a guy Jimmy/Bobby Fox ? (Also Priory Hse) plus a few more who played guitar and on the odd Saturday night would play on the bottom playground with guitar, a bass made from a wooden moving crate with a broom handle through it and sing a few songs surrounded by an admiring crowd! That must have been 1957 or so when I would have been 5 and older brothers all had motorbikes. I saw plenty of pre arranged fights take place there and oddly enough mostly between females! I'm pretty sure you may be mixing up Mick Noonan's father with Boobby/Pete/Alan Hanson's father from Priory Hse as he had a wooden leg. Mr Noonan never did and I virtually lived at their house as a teenager and heard nothing about daggers etc. For some reason I remember you as a good swimmer! Maybe because of the times everyone went to the Lido and I was younger and a rubbish swimmer so just stayed at home and played football against a wall. Learnt great ball control though! I'm still in regular contact with Eddie Curtin and am God Father to one of his daughters and vice versa. He became a very good footballer and played for Ashford. The big Sunday football match was bit too much for me as I think I was just a couple of years too young but started to play in them a bit later. I have been in contact today with Peter Gage who, he doesn't know this, I learnt a lot about football from early on by watching him and the best thing he told me was was " don't dive in". Defending became easy after that. I honestly believe we had the best bonfires in South London. Brilliant evenings but a bit dangerous. Ken, last I heard re Tony Swain was he lived in Eltham and he had some heart problems. Tony was a good lad though . Re Susan Smithers and her sister Evelyn - you are correct Ken. I think I remember them both moving into Marr Hse after I moved out when I was 7 yrs old (1959) and moved to Marlborough Lane. We swapped houses with the Cann family. I think I remember Evelyn being a little shy compared to Susan. I'm not sure if I remember your brother Graham. The problem is that everyone uses a user name but I do remember surnames. Mick McArthy would be a little younger than me I think and after so may years it's difficult to remember the different teirs in age. Funny guy though and very likeable disposition. I think I may go back and make a few posts about the very early days that I remember of Springfield Grove and work my way though to the heady heights of Heathway FC and beyond. In between it all it may shake a few more memories. Just for the record I was welcomed to the forum by Len Glover. Is this a user name or could it be the original flying legend of the left wing Len Glover who I merrily cheered as a kid?
Cheers for now,
T,A.
Sadly not the real Len Glover but someone who, like you, cheered him on as a lad.
Terry you're right, I'm getting the surnames mixed up, too many Micks and Alans! Remember the skiffle group boys. Bobby Curtis was older than us, the "Curtis Gang" we used to call him and his mates, they were our heroes. Can't imagine a happier place to have grow up.
I remember the skiffle boys but not all of the. There was Johnny fox and Jim conran I think but not sure who else. Johnny fox looked a bit like Marty Wilde and he also rode a Matchless motorbike. I had three older brothers living in MArr house with me Dez, Brian and Mick. Dez and Brian were much older and also had motor bikes as all the older guys seemed to. Sunday mornings were a parade of fellas cleaning bikes and then shooting of to Johnsons cafe down near Brands Hatch. When I was about 6 yrs old my brother Brian put me on the fuel tank of his Norton Dominator and drove me down to Greenwich market and back. Can't imagine that today.
I moved into Springfield Grove Estate ( Marr House) shortly after I was born in 1952. I'm told that Wilson house was even finished at that time. I was actually born in St Alfeges Hosp and initially live in Birchtree House Cherry Orchard but only for a few months. As Peter said above life was tough and our parents worked hard and long hours. My earliest memories of others in the flats was being pushed in a very large pram out of the entrance to mart Hse by a girl who lived above us on the third floor. I think her surname was Robinson and was probably around 12 at the time. Neighbours in Marr House were Mick Pattison, Chris Jarrett,Dell Taylor and Jennifer Wright all on the same floor. I'm still in contact with Mick Pattison who is now a teacher at a school in Cobham. His mother used to take in some of the Charlton apprentices and keep a motherly eye on them and I remember Mick telling me she thought it upsetting when the lads were told they would not make it and have to leave. Growing up under the age of 5 was brilliant as we had so much to do and were perfectly safe being protected by older brothers. In fact most harm came to us via them! The mothers used to take their laundry over the the basement of Langhorne House where a certain lady called Gladys was in charge and put the fear of death amongst the youngsters. We all played happily outside and used to wonder at the skill of Brian Curtis walking along the top of the inch wide railings just like a circus act. When i was about 3 yrs old I met Eddie Curtin and we had a mini fight or fracas which was immediately resolved when Eddie's older sister Pat came and sat on me. Sadly, the lovely Pat passed away a few years ago. Eddie and I are still mates and God parents to each others children. As my close friends Mick and Chris had started school I was left alone so ventured down to the woods one day, you could then, and spotted a boy a couple of years older who seemed to be hunting birds. I joined him and we became close friends over the years as it was Fran Noonan, Micks, brother. We spent years going bird watching and playing chess etc and walked the Pennine Way together when I was 18 years old. Fran was a great guy and so generous with his time and knowledge but, tragically, he was taken from us by a rare type of cancer. He was so well thought of in his community where he lived they even named a local wood after him. Sorely missed. So, now it was my turn to start school at Charlton Manor Primary. Mr Poulter was the headmaster and my first teacher was Miss Hitchcock. She used to read out your name for registration each day and you had to answer "Yes Miss Hitchcock". However I was so nervous that when my turn came I blurted out " Yes Miss Itchycock" and nearly feinted at the embarrassment. Absolutely true. Our introduction to school football was in Charlton Park one day on a huge pitch and we wore woollen shirts that were awful. School colours were black and yellow hoops but we never got to wear those shirts for a while. At half time I never realised you had to swap ends and lined up in exactly the same position but with the opposition! Progression was made to the school team and all the Sunday morning football and kick abouts 'down the flats' must have paid off as I was put into the school team a year up from me. Other players were Dennis Buckland, Gordon Pugh who, to me, all seemed very much older. I realise now that we were very for for our age and could hold our own with most people in a sporting sense. Then , of course, older boys left and I was back where I should be with boys my own age. We had to read out a football report at school assembly every Monday morning which we hated doing. My big football partner then was Ray LaRoche whom lived in Langhorne. Ray was a very good footballer and he and I would 'take on' about 5 or 6 kids at a time in a match after school in the playground using a tennis ball. We used to be able to do kewpie puppies using a tennis ball so the transition to a large proper football seemed easy at the time. Unfortunately for Ray he fell down a tree just before the trails for representing Greenwich took place and never made the team. Quite honestly he did not miss much. Football was far and away the biggest sport and very competitive matches took place on Sunday mornings or anytime we could. Gordon Bridges father used to come and watch and was quite enthusiastic in encouraging everyone. The bon fire nights previously mentioned were legendary.Huge fires and god knows where all the wood came from. One time a chap called John Reid, also from Priory House, hid himself in one of the massive bonfires and we set light too it. There were games of british bull dog on the upper green, now a car park, where Pete Hanson tried his hardest to catch us but we were quick in those days. All great training for later football and rugby. Then one day alarm bells rang out as men with theodolites and measuring sticks arrived and were preparing to build a car park on our play area. We went into war mode and stole or bent all the markers they left but we lost the battle inevitably and the bottom funny shaped playground followed suit. Around this time I guess the beginnings of Springcourt took shape ( I always get mixed up with Springcourt and Heathway) and Peter Gage's brother Laurie very successfully became manager and we met in Charlton house each week. Jack Leach appeared on my doorstep one day to get me to sign for them but they had no second team and I was too young and not big enough to play first team but I signed anyway looking forward to a brighter future. Sadly, Pete Tucker has since passed away which I only learnt yesterday. I played many table tennis matches against Pete in Charlton Hse on club nights and his speciality shot was to let the ball (ping pong ball) drop way down low almost to the floor and flip it back with massive top spin. You learn a lot watching others. Kenny Coleman was like a thrashing machine at full back - all arms and legs. I think Dave May was in goal and was like Mr Muscles and Jack Leach was a sort of sponge man and used to talk to me on the line with advise about buying shares! Not exactly rock n roll was it. Good team with all good players and I'm not sure what exactly happened in the end but Springcourt seems to morph into Heathway ( I hope I got that right). Heathway, as you all know, operated out of The Vally pub owned by Phil who also ran the pilot in Greenwich and some other pubs I believe. We were quite a successful team and I've still got, my wife tells me often enough, some trophies from those days. Colin Milligan, Colin O'keefe, Paul Arnold and Les Davey all up front must have been a nightmare for the opposition plus a steady defence latterly built around Mark Fermolli. Not bad and would hold our own today. I captained the team for a while and nobody listened to a bloody word I said. Good call. After a few years at Heathway I joined Deptford and played alongside Eddie Curtin and a few other familiar faces. As with all things people move on with work, private life etc or move away and so we lose contact. Recently, I have made contact with Mick Noonan and discovered our independent interest in guitars which will be a good laugh in the future. Oddly enough as I type random names crop up like Les and Brian Chalkley from Wilson House, Dave Warren ( Wilson), Shane Quilter ( Marr ) , Harry Jarrett ( Marr), Kenny Robinson ( Downe Hse?), George and Dougie Smith ( Priory).Paul Shipman lived in Priory and went on to seek records in Woolwich covered market for some time. There was also a guy I think called Dave Smith who lived in Marr house on the first floor facing Priory House. Odd chap who kept himself to himself and his father was an odd ball because he actually drew a gun on us kids from his balcony to scare us off. It worked.
I remember the skiffle boys but not all of the. There was Johnny fox and Jim conran I think but not sure who else. Johnny fox looked a bit like Marty Wilde and he also rode a Matchless motorbike. I had three older brothers living in MArr house with me Dez, Brian and Mick. Dez and Brian were much older and also had motor bikes as all the older guys seemed to. Sunday mornings were a parade of fellas cleaning bikes and then shooting of to Johnsons cafe down near Brands Hatch. When I was about 6 yrs old my brother Brian put me on the fuel tank of his Norton Dominator and drove me down to Greenwich market and back. Can't imagine that today.
In the mid 1950's, my parents ran the fish and chip shop on the Woolwich Road, on the corner of Dupree Road further towards the Tunnel, still there looking considerably different these days. At that time we had two rooms at the back of the shop which served as a restaurant, not really used during the day, evenings being somewhat busier. My folks would let a fellow called Reg Smith practise his guitar and singing in one of these rooms during the day, Reg was later signed up by the impresario Larry Parnes who gave Reg the stage name of Marty Wilde!
On a sadder note, it is inevitable that some have departed this world. Lawrie Gage, Pete Tucker and Dave Tweedie.
Terry - that's not Dave Tweedie, ex BT and worked down at the National Maritime Museum after early retirement, I hope?
Peter Gage will confirm but I'm afraid, yes, that is the same Dave Tweedie who was a close drinking companion of Jim Copeland, and others, back in the day. Dave was a kind and gentle man as I remember and I last met him when he was on security at the Maritime Museum with my then young family . Sad indeed.
In the mid 1950's, my parents ran the fish and chip shop on the Woolwich Road, on the corner of Dupree Road further towards the Tunnel, still there looking considerably different these days.
Well, talk about a small world. My mother used to work in the Princess of Wales pub back in the middle 1950s/ 1960s and my father would take me to collect her late at night. At weekends we would go to the fish n chip shop at Dupree Road for a take a way treat. I remember we once had a curry as, to us, this was new and I can safely say say " not for me". Sorry to say that but I think curry must have been an acquired taste back then. There was also a link to a girl I was very friendly with at Charlton Manor who was closely related to Marty Wilde but I forget how.
Sad to hear about Francis, the Noonans were a lovely family.
Terry, be honest, climbing up and taking birds eggs, ("its OK they're cold"), was hardly bird watching wink: But yes for town kids we did take pleasure in bird watching and being able to identify every bird we saw. Remember a Barn Owl being spotted one day that caused great excitement and an immediate mob of eager bird watchers scurrying around to get a better sighting.
Give my regards to Eddie, really used to worry about him when he was a nipper. Me and my two sisters (same age as Eddied) spent a New Years eve together in his house with his big sister Pat as baby sitter (probably 9 years old) while our parents went out for the night. Remember how we got bored (no telly in those days) from 7 o'clock waiting for the hands of the clock to get to midnight, and being a bit confused when nothing actually happened. Then we heard the noises from the Thames tugs. Can you imagine it today if you left 5 kids from age 4 to 9 in a house alone all evening til after midnight.
Only played for Charlton Manor school team for a short while. Mr Gill the sports master knocked me out in the playground with a right-hander breaking up a mass bundle in the playground. When my mum went to the school to complain about me being assaulted by a teacher and coming home with a black eye and a swollen face, Mr Gill said " the children were running towards me and I put out my hand to stop them" so I had run into his hand. I don't think the Headmaster believed him, but nothing happened except he never picked me again for the football team, so he might have had some grief behind the scenes, of course it might have been because I was shit. Peter Oliver and Alan Sanford were the stars in that team.
I played rugby at Shooter Hill (as scrum half and kicker), football wasn't played on snob grounds. I didn't play any football until after I left school and played into my thirties at a pretty modest level, I could only ever toe punt with any power after years of rugby kicking. But meant I was OK taking hits and giving it out in those days when the physical side was part of the game.
Terry - "Robinson" was "Christine Robinson" who went out with Mick Noonan for a few years. The family moved to a house close to the railway crossing (just past the football ground). The children's school is on the corner of that road.
Dave Tweedie (ex BT) sadly passed away from Leukemia. That must be at least 10 years ago.
RIP Dave Tweedie, lovely man. George West's old man gave me a room in his flat after finding out I was homeless. Paul Arnold put me into the radiators many a time during football training at Fossdene. Marc Formolli, I was working with him 20 years ago. We only lost touch recently. Lived in Wilson House myself, in between getting slung out by my Mum for being a sh*tbag. Anyone remember The Hollow Oak Tree, climbing inside watching the milkman look for whoever had just robbed his cakes and biscuits (it was never me Officer) Good times........
The Hollow Oak tree - only those able to climb all the way up inside to the top had any street creed. It was actually an Elm Tree. We were better at ornithology than dendrology!
Once thought we had discovered gold inside the tree. A few dads came down casually to inspect these ridiculous stories, turned out to be copper staples. Obviously used as an office outside normal hours.
Comments
If so I knew him quite well, as he used to get off the 53 in the Village,although he was in the top stream, at Bloomfield........ never seen him since school days?
Anyway, if it is a question for me, then no. John went to Blackheath and Bluecoats and would never in a million years be in the top stream at school, bless him :-)
As he was more of a friend to my old mate at Elliscombe mount, and we only really got together for the last year in the 5th form.......
I stayed at school doing my 'A' levels....... The John Davies I knew was a very talented footballer, but never saw the guy play as I had been dropped by the school team at that stage, and only played really for fun on the estate. I think it was at this stage that my interest in football seemed to wain as I was into being an art student, or aspiring art student, and the world of art and progressive rock seemed a lot more seductive than being a 'skin head' on the estate. Still going to Camberwell art school on a Saturday morning had it's compensations...... with all those young woman?
God did I suffer for my art!..........
Someone mentioned earlier a girl with long black hair and called Wale. Could this be Linda Wale (Whale) who lived in Priory House? The green grocers was indeed Hardings and his nickname was Spud as previously mentioned. He continuously muttered to himself and only stopped to pop into the Bugle. The bike shop, wet fish shop, fish n chip shop where my mother worked early 1960s and the butchers/ grocery store opposite St Lukes that delivered your larger purchases in a big box on the front of his butchers fixed wheel bike. Hard work.
Lots of memories of the big fires on Bon fire night where the fire brigade were often called late on and we collected and stored wood weeks before and kept a lot in the fire escape of Priory House with the help of Lenny Wrights dad. One time the cradles were left hanging outside Priory House whilst they decorated the exterior. A long, long rope hung from the roof to the ground so we attached Tony Swain to it and pulled like mad. Tony was flown up in the air at great speed, and danger, and his father looked out the window to see his son flying past him on the third floor or so. Great times indeed.
I've still got loads of memories of the estate and the football teams we played for later,Springcourt, Heathway, Samuel Montagues, Catford Utd, Deptford. So, if this thread is still up and running I can add some names and stories if you wish.
Please add your names and stories. There are plenty of us who will be interested.
After Charlton Manor I went off to Shooters Hill and most other lads went off to Roan, Bloomfield or Woolwich Poly, so gradually made different friends. There was an older boy who was in Wilson House who went to Shooters Hill, Mickey Green, he was a massive Addick.
I lived in Priory House, Linda Whale lived above, Tony Swain and his brother Alan lived next door. Eddie Curtain lived below and eternal memory of those times was Eddie Curtain, whose dad was a tough as nails Irish labourer, beating Eddie with a bloody great leather belt as he chased him up and down the estate.
Robbing gas meters was a common petty crime on the estate. Our gas meter was broken into one day, suspicion fell on one of our neighbours who had a key to our house. My mum had to leave early to get to work at Cork 'n Seal so a few neighbours had keys to come and go looking after us when mum was at work.
Why did the council give us a playground shaped like a triangle covered in razor sharp granite chips for playing football? Imagine playing on a pitch where one goal was in front of the corner flag, and the other one on the centre circle. Lucky if the Frido plastic ball wasn't shredded inside ten minutes, in which case you played on with a plastic pancake.
One of the girls Remember, Susan Smith.....she had one of those leather mod coats... The 2 best looking girls on the estate.
I was the guy with the long hair, playing down on the lower playground, Tony Swain was crap at football and I went to school ( Bloomfield) with him. If you see him get my ***kin jimmy Hendrix hits album back. The git borrowed it for a party, never got it back. Never really, got on with Tony...... Remember Peter Gage, and Paul Arnold. Some of the lads I used to hang about were older, and left school at 15, ended up as paint sprayers, and there like. There was a lad, Bobby Paine, who had the first car in the group, a red escort van I think. We used to go down to Charlton in the afternoon. Sunday morning was the big football match, on that asphelt playground, with the small goals. I used to hang around with Mick McCarthey, Kerry Hills, Mick Jackamon, a lot of West ham fans there........ and one of the Baylis boys. Roger Parnell lived next door in Langhorne House.....think he got a job at the GPO, as it was it was in those days. Stopped playing at 16/17. Big Roger, and Big Mick, Remember Eddie Curtain, got thrown of the garage roof, on his back.
They had a TV that was on a pay meter!..... funny I can remember that.....
Not sure he approved of me......
Mick's sister was Sonia, I think he lived in one of the flats at the top of Springfield. Went to school at Eltham Green. Same class as 'Mrs Ken' ..... Sounds as though you might know my brother Graham, had blond hair.......
Mick McArthy would be a little younger than me I think and after so may years it's difficult to remember the different teirs in age. Funny guy though and very likeable disposition.
I think I may go back and make a few posts about the very early days that I remember of Springfield Grove and work my way though to the heady heights of Heathway FC and beyond. In between it all it may shake a few more memories.
Just for the record I was welcomed to the forum by Len Glover. Is this a user name or could it be the original flying legend of the left wing Len Glover who I merrily cheered as a kid?
Cheers for now,
T,A.
Terry was a few years younger than me and his ball skills were, to quote an oft used phrase, "ten years ahead of his time". I remember sometimes getting a bit frustrated with him because he would not pass the ball! He had more basic skills than most. Heathway FC was great fun, which I joined on the club entering it's first year of competitive football. The team was largely made up of players from Springfield and the adjoining estates. Social media, of which this site is one, has allowed me to track down an keep in touch in my latter years with players of that era; George West, Gordon Bridges, Keith White, John Elphick, Colin Milligan and John Himbury. I feel a bit sad that I cannot track down other like Colin Baker, Ken Coleman etc. It is also good from chatting to these guys to establish that they have made their way in life, some moving to the four corners of the UK (and Texas, in the case of John Elphick) and seem very content.
On a sadder note, it is inevitable that some have departed this world. Lawrie Gage, Pete Tucker and Dave Tweedie.
During my latter teen years and at the same time as Heathway playing competitive football, The Valley Public House was built and the first landlord was an ex Charlton and England player named Harold Hobbis. Sadly Harry's career was cut short in his prime (pre-war) by a broken leg; in those days a broken leg inevitably finished the career of a footballer. He always seemed a grumpy man to me (understandably so) but was very pleased when we (Heathway) celebrated winning the cup in our first year. He filled our cup with some sort of alcohol, which seemed out of character with his general demeanour.
I return to The Valley regularly from my home in North Buckinghamshire and feel sad with the way the area is generally run down. It doesn't have the feeling of a fun place to live anymore, but maybe my initial feelings are through eyes and mind of a youth with rose-tinted glasses. The aforementioned playground in Springfield is a now a set of garages and openly-parked run down cars.
I have been lucky in my life to have lived in Charlton in that era and lucky to have moved on to a comfortable life. The current generation don't seem to be so carefree and happy, struggling to find employment, never being able to dream of a mortgage as a ladder to better things in later life. Misty eyes prevail as I finish this piece.
As my close friends Mick and Chris had started school I was left alone so ventured down to the woods one day, you could then, and spotted a boy a couple of years older who seemed to be hunting birds. I joined him and we became close friends over the years as it was Fran Noonan, Micks, brother. We spent years going bird watching and playing chess etc and walked the Pennine Way together when I was 18 years old. Fran was a great guy and so generous with his time and knowledge but, tragically, he was taken from us by a rare type of cancer. He was so well thought of in his community where he lived they even named a local wood after him. Sorely missed.
So, now it was my turn to start school at Charlton Manor Primary. Mr Poulter was the headmaster and my first teacher was Miss Hitchcock.
She used to read out your name for registration each day and you had to answer "Yes Miss Hitchcock". However I was so nervous that when my turn came I blurted out " Yes Miss Itchycock" and nearly feinted at the embarrassment. Absolutely true. Our introduction to school football was in Charlton Park one day on a huge pitch and we wore woollen shirts that were awful. School colours were black and yellow hoops but we never got to wear those shirts for a while. At half time I never realised you had to swap ends and lined up in exactly the same position but with the opposition! Progression was made to the school team and all the Sunday morning football and kick abouts
'down the flats' must have paid off as I was put into the school team a year up from me. Other players were Dennis Buckland, Gordon Pugh who, to me, all seemed very much older. I realise now that we were very for for our age and could hold our own with most people in a sporting sense. Then , of course, older boys left and I was back where I should be with boys my own age. We had to read out a football report at school assembly every Monday morning which we hated doing. My big football partner then was Ray LaRoche whom lived in Langhorne. Ray was a very good footballer and he and I would 'take on' about 5 or 6 kids at a time in a match after school in the playground using a tennis ball. We used to be able to do kewpie puppies using a tennis ball so the transition to a large proper football seemed easy at the time. Unfortunately for Ray he fell down a tree just before the trails for representing Greenwich took place and never made the team. Quite honestly he did not miss much.
Football was far and away the biggest sport and very competitive matches took place on Sunday mornings or anytime we could. Gordon Bridges father used to come and watch and was quite enthusiastic in encouraging everyone. The bon fire nights previously mentioned were legendary.Huge fires and god knows where all the wood came from. One time a chap called John Reid, also from Priory House, hid himself in one of the massive bonfires and we set light too it. There were games of british bull dog on the upper green, now a car park, where Pete Hanson tried his hardest to catch us but we were quick in those days. All great training for later football and rugby.
Then one day alarm bells rang out as men with theodolites and measuring sticks arrived and were preparing to build a car park on our play area. We went into war mode and stole or bent all the markers they left but we lost the battle inevitably and the bottom funny shaped playground followed suit. Around this time I guess the beginnings of Springcourt took shape ( I always get mixed up with Springcourt and Heathway) and Peter Gage's brother Laurie very successfully became manager and we met in Charlton house each week. Jack Leach appeared on my doorstep one day to get me to sign for them but they had no second team and I was too young and not big enough to play first team but I signed anyway looking forward to a brighter future. Sadly, Pete Tucker has since passed away which I only learnt yesterday. I played many table tennis matches against Pete in Charlton Hse on club nights and his speciality shot was to let the ball (ping pong ball) drop way down low almost to the floor and flip it back with massive top spin. You learn a lot watching others.
Kenny Coleman was like a thrashing machine at full back - all arms and legs. I think Dave May was in goal and was like Mr Muscles and Jack Leach was a sort of sponge man and used to talk to me on the line with advise about buying shares! Not exactly rock n roll was it.
Good team with all good players and I'm not sure what exactly happened in the end but Springcourt seems to morph into Heathway ( I hope I got that right). Heathway, as you all know, operated out of The Vally pub owned by Phil who also ran the pilot in Greenwich and some other pubs I believe. We were quite a successful team and I've still got, my wife tells me often enough, some trophies from those days. Colin Milligan, Colin O'keefe, Paul Arnold and Les Davey all up front must have been a nightmare for the opposition plus a steady defence latterly built around Mark Fermolli. Not bad and would hold our own today. I captained the team for a while and nobody listened to a bloody word I said. Good call.
After a few years at Heathway I joined Deptford and played alongside Eddie Curtin and a few other familiar faces. As with all things people move on with work, private life etc or move away and so we lose contact. Recently, I have made contact with Mick Noonan and discovered our independent interest in guitars which will be a good laugh in the future. Oddly enough as I type random names crop up like Les and Brian Chalkley from Wilson House, Dave Warren ( Wilson), Shane Quilter ( Marr ) , Harry Jarrett ( Marr), Kenny Robinson
( Downe Hse?), George and Dougie Smith ( Priory).Paul Shipman lived in Priory and went on to seek records in Woolwich covered market for some time. There was also a guy I think called Dave Smith who lived in Marr house on the first floor facing Priory House. Odd chap who kept himself to himself and his father was an odd ball because he actually drew a gun on us kids
from his balcony to scare us off. It worked.
Cheers,
T.A.
At that time we had two rooms at the back of the shop which served as a restaurant, not really used during the day, evenings being somewhat busier.
My folks would let a fellow called Reg Smith practise his guitar and singing in one of these rooms during the day, Reg was later signed up by the impresario Larry Parnes who gave Reg the stage name of Marty Wilde!
Terry - that's not Dave Tweedie, ex BT and worked down at the National Maritime Museum after early retirement, I hope?
Peter Gage will confirm but I'm afraid, yes, that is the same Dave Tweedie who was a close drinking companion of Jim Copeland, and others, back in the day. Dave was a kind and gentle man as I remember and I last met him when he was on security at the Maritime Museum with my then young family . Sad indeed.
Well, talk about a small world. My mother used to work in the Princess of Wales pub back in the middle 1950s/ 1960s and my father would take me to collect her late at night. At weekends we would go to the fish n chip shop at Dupree Road for a take a way treat. I remember we once had a curry as, to us, this was new and I can safely say say " not for me". Sorry to say that but I think curry must have been an acquired taste back then. There was also a link to a girl I was very friendly with at Charlton Manor who was closely related to Marty Wilde but I forget how.
Terry, be honest, climbing up and taking birds eggs, ("its OK they're cold"), was hardly bird watching wink: But yes for town kids we did take pleasure in bird watching and being able to identify every bird we saw. Remember a Barn Owl being spotted one day that caused great excitement and an immediate mob of eager bird watchers scurrying around to get a better sighting.
Give my regards to Eddie, really used to worry about him when he was a nipper. Me and my two sisters (same age as Eddied) spent a New Years eve together in his house with his big sister Pat as baby sitter (probably 9 years old) while our parents went out for the night. Remember how we got bored (no telly in those days) from 7 o'clock waiting for the hands of the clock to get to midnight, and being a bit confused when nothing actually happened. Then we heard the noises from the Thames tugs. Can you imagine it today if you left 5 kids from age 4 to 9 in a house alone all evening til after midnight.
Only played for Charlton Manor school team for a short while. Mr Gill the sports master knocked me out in the playground with a right-hander breaking up a mass bundle in the playground. When my mum went to the school to complain about me being assaulted by a teacher and coming home with a black eye and a swollen face, Mr Gill said " the children were running towards me and I put out my hand to stop them" so I had run into his hand. I don't think the Headmaster believed him, but nothing happened except he never picked me again for the football team, so he might have had some grief behind the scenes, of course it might have been because I was shit. Peter Oliver and Alan Sanford were the stars in that team.
I played rugby at Shooter Hill (as scrum half and kicker), football wasn't played on snob grounds. I didn't play any football until after I left school and played into my thirties at a pretty modest level, I could only ever toe punt with any power after years of rugby kicking. But meant I was OK taking hits and giving it out in those days when the physical side was part of the game.
Dave Tweedie (ex BT) sadly passed away from Leukemia. That must be at least 10 years ago.
George West's old man gave me a room in his flat after finding out I was homeless.
Paul Arnold put me into the radiators many a time during football training at Fossdene.
Marc Formolli, I was working with him 20 years ago. We only lost touch recently.
Lived in Wilson House myself, in between getting slung out by my Mum for being a sh*tbag.
Anyone remember The Hollow Oak Tree, climbing inside watching the milkman look for whoever had just robbed his cakes and biscuits (it was never me Officer)
Good times........
Once thought we had discovered gold inside the tree. A few dads came down casually to inspect these ridiculous stories, turned out to be copper staples. Obviously used as an office outside normal hours.