I suspect they mean .....not political, not religious, not commercial , ....over and above the National flag / emblem.........we are at risk of being the scousers of international football, and wishing to impose our own grief, remembrance on any and every one else
I suspect they mean .....not political, not religious, not commercial , ....over and above the National flag / emblem.........we are at risk of being the scousers of international football, and wishing to impose our own grief, remembrance on any and every one else
Are you on a wind up?
Unless you were in the armed forces and in a position to say that that;s a shocking statement. Perhaps do a bit of reading about history and see what brave normal people went through and sacrificed and do so today so you can have the freedom to post tripe on a football forum.
Soldiers and people drafted dont decide what wars they fight its the politicians that deal with the politics and send them there. And if players wearing a poppy at Wembley to remember those souls makes me a whining scouser then pass me a shell suit.
Light blue touch paper... I will start. Absolute bollocks. There would not even be a FIFA without the heroes who fought to free Europe. "Our" remembrance is their remembrance.
A spokesman for the charity said: "The Royal British Legion is grateful for the widespread support it enjoys from the sporting community. Once again this year the support has been phenomenal.
"However, we appreciate that showing support is not always possible under some regulations and we would never seek to impose ourselves in these situations."
I actually agree with FIFA on this one. Although as a nation most of us view our servicemen and women as heroes to be honoured and helped there are plenty of people around the world who do not. Like it or not wearing a poppy does have a political connotation. As Clausewitz said "War is the continuation of politics by other means." FIFA's ruling is actually sensible. If an Israeli team wanted to wear an emblem honouring members of the Stern Gang who were killed or wounded, (most Israelis do admire them), there would be outrage in this countries.
If the members of the England team want to wear poppies going to and from the ground and going about their everyday business no one is going to stop them and that is their business. If England supporters want to wear poppies they can. The England teams from 1918 to the 1960's would have had many players who had first hand knowledge of the two world wars. They would have actually known many of those who died or who were maimed. Many of those teams would have contained players who served and been wounded themselves. They didn't feel the need to wear a poppy emblem whilst playing so why the great fuss now?
Just in case people think I am Right On vegan leftie, My username of this forum is a village on the Somme and I go there several times a year to pay tribute to the men who lie there still. I do wear my poppy with pride but I take it off however when I go to bed, have a bath or play five a side football.
Tricky subject. Sport needs to be kept as neutral as possible. The poppy is NOT a neutral symbol as it is, amongst other things, a reminder of horrendous, bloody wars fought between Britain and (especially) Germany. Sporting occassions are not and should not be allowed to become a time or place for remembering bloody historical battles. IF England was playing Ireland for example and not Spain this weekend, the poppy on the shirt would be a very contentious issue as many Irishmen see the poppy as a symbol of English oppression. Try walking into an Irish pub wearing a poppy and see the reaction. Of course I am totally in favour of wearing the poppy as an individual badge of respect. However I can see that FIFA is correct in banning ANY political or religious symbol as far as is possible. Sport/football needs to remain as politically neutral as possible in this age of increasing nationalism and international tensions. In this situation, FIFA's current internal problems are not the issue and the organisation is right in insisting on no nationalistic emblems. As to the Turkish/Arabic crescent, I suggest that many Turks and Arabs may find the St George Cross as insulting as many on here appear to find Islamic symbolism. It all depends on which side of the border one was born. Football is not war, it's a game.
Lincs Ive got Irish heritage and I would walk into an Irish pub (in England) with a poppy on and would never have even thought anything of it before reading ur post.
Its not a political statement its about remembering people who gave their lives for reasons and politics that they probably had absolutely no political control over.
The game is in England against Spain. Why anyone with any interest in that fixture would take offence or object to players showing respect and rememberance for ordinary people who have sacrificed their lives mostly without a real choice in the matter is beyond me. And if they do well f*** em.
FIFA have got this absolutely spot on, football has to stay clear of international politics as much as it possibly can, the consequences of the game being used as a proxy vehicle for international conflicts are horrible to think about.
Look at it this way, a couple of years back North Korea and South Korea played each other in the WCQ's - these countries are at war remember - and both games in Pyongyang and Seoul passed off peacefully.
The reason the games went well was because FIFA told both countries in no uncertain terms that any attempt to use either tie as a political stage would result in instant expulsion from the WC.
It is the same with the matter in hand here, if FIFA allow England to do this then they would have to allow everyone else to do the same. What if Israel wanted to wear something that offended the Arab countries? What if the Yemeni's wanted to put some revolutionary Islamic text on their jerseys? Where does it end? Who decides what is political and what is not?
If people want to wear poppies at PL/FL games then fine, there are no problems with that at all, but taking it onto the international stage is the first step down a very dangerous road, as has been said before football is a means of friendly international competition, it is not supposed to be a way of settling historical scores.
Here is a counter-view of the Poppy culture, although its not one that I am completely in agreement with....
Lincs Ive got Irish heritage and I would walk into an Irish pub (in England) with a poppy on and would never have even thought anything of it before reading ur post.
Its not a political statement its about remembering people who gave their lives for reasons and politics that they probably had absolutely no political control over.
The game is in England against Spain. Why anyone with any interest in that fixture would take offence or object to players showing respect and rememberance for ordinary people who have sacrificed their lives mostly without a real choice in the matter is beyond me. And if they do well f*** em.
IN MY HEART I agree with what you feel, (I have got into more than one heated situation thru wearing a poppy but that is me !!), ... the BUT is .. and MY HEAD tells me that FIFA is international and must attempt to disassociate itself as far as possible from any hint of nationalisnm or favoritism in games under its auspices, FIFA can't afford to say 'f*** em'. The poppy like it or not IS a quasi nationalistic symbol and MIGHT cause offence. You and I may say 'so fucking what?' FIFA can't afford to do so.
I'm totally behind our servicemen & the poppy appeal, but this poppy on the shirt business has only recently appeared & I see no massive issue here.
Have a minutes silence as we always have done & show our respect in the usual manner.
Let's kind of keep politics out of football. We go to escape all that.
Well said Cov E. A sensible post with no swearing, no preaching, no talking down to people, no high and mighty attitude. If only others could be like you.......
Agree wholeheartedly. There are plenty of other opportunities to wear poppies, there are plenty of other opportunities for remembrance. It's really not a problem.
if FIFA allow England to do this then they would have to allow everyone else to do the same. What if Israel wanted to wear something that offended the Arab countries? What if the Yemeni's wanted to put some revolutionary Islamic text on their jerseys? Where does it end? Who decides what is political and what is not?
We at FIFA are aware of some complaints of how we run our federation. we would like to now take this opportunity to explain our decisions so you can fully understand our postion on the following matters.
Poopys on the England national teams shirt - far to political. Dont want to hurt the feeling of the fascists.
goal line technolgy - We feel that goal line technolgy might aid England.
Not banning teams or countries for holigans, corruption and rascism - Well if we did that how many teams do you reckon would be left?
The 2022 world cup being bought by Qatar - We at FIFA find this statement absurbed. Qatar is a footballing nation who yes at the moment dont actually own a football. But my god with the amount of money they seem to be throwing about they'll soon buy one.
The 2018 world cup being bought by Russia- We felt Russia had a good presentation which i swear is what persuaded us and not all the presents from the Kremlin. It also had nothing to do with the fact they were against Englands bid. Also the lies on that BBC panarama documentry and in the British press did not sway our vote either way.
Having seb blater reinstated without election as FIFA president when his oppoment Bin Hammam from Quator was charged for briabry and also appointing Hayatou President of FIFA's Olympic committee even though under investigation for alleged bribery.- erm...
I hope that clears up a few things. FIFA (fucking it for all) are proud of our decisions and of our organisation.
Just to be clear, we are not riddled with corruption. honest.
Fair point Lincs and id be more open to your opinion if FIFA were'nt the corrupt, hypocritical and immoral bunch of scumbags that they quite evidently are.
The issue has been blown out of all proportion in my mind but only in that there should have been no issue at all. Why on earth anyone thought to ask FIFA's permission on it shows that there are people in the FA who have got warped priorities if that crossed their mind. And if it was Fifa themselves who brought it up first well their priorities are certainly skewed as they have bigger issues concerning getting their house in order than whether players in a 3rd rate football team choose to pubicly pay their respects to the dead.
Its all so hypocritical..... FIFA's anti political stance could then be to to ban national anthems which are often overtly nationalistic inherently and with political conotations eg Flower of Scotland? (which would be ridiculous if that was banned)
Fair point Lincs and id be more open to your opinion if FIFA were'nt the corrupt, hypocritical and immoral bunch of scumbags that they quite evidently are.
The issue has been blown out of all proportion in my mind but only in that there should have been no issue at all. Why on earth anyone thought to ask FIFA's permission on it shows that there are people in the FA who have got warped priorities if that crossed their mind. And if it was Fifa themselves who brought it up first well their priorities are certainly skewed as they have bigger issues concerning getting their house in order than whether players in a 3rd rate football team choose to pubicly pay their respects to the dead.
Its all so hypocritical..... FIFA's anti political stance could then be to to ban national anthems which are often overtly nationalistic inherently and with political conotations eg Flower of Scotland? (which would be ridiculous if that was banned)
for my part ban all national anthems, hakas, flags, whatever. I'm a republican and while I am sure that Liz is a nice old gal, the thought that the future of my beloved country depends on god saving her is quite preposterous. Nice to exchange opinions with you once again
Im a republican too with a proper mixed heritage but im also a very proud Englishman and grateful to live in such a great country without feeling the need to be xenophobic or overly nationalistic. Whilst i might not agree with the concept of the royal family or the fact that up til relatively recently Catholics like myself wouldnt get a look in if Anne or Marge had taken a shine to me i dont take any offence in that or see any reason not to be patriotic and proud of this country and (the majority) of the plethora of its great traditions.
I think national anthems,flags hakas and all that malarky are vital in retaining an identity as it is an expression of your culture and where you are from etc.
The Flower of Scotland for example (first one i thought of) is vastly more political than wearing a poppy to pay respect yet it would be just as ridiculous should FIFA declare they be banned from airing it at Wembley and hence why i cant understand the poppy ban.
A great opportunity for the thick to get in a froth. The Royal British Legion understood that the rule exists for a reason. Nobody has given a piss about a tacky picture of a poppy being put on football shirts for years so why is it becoming an issue now. Wear your poppy with pride, but recognize it's a personal and private thing that really doesn't need to be hijacked by the dumdum let's get angry-for-the-sake of it brigade. You don't need to watch a bunch of millionaires, most of whom don't know or care what the symbol is for playing a meaningless game with a picture on their chest. You've all been around on this earth for decades and have managed to look at sporting events without the participants having pictures of flowers on them.without giving it a second thought, so you might want to consider why it's suddenly become such a gut wrenching issue. Making a connection between an existing rule and the playing of national anthems is pathetic, wrong-thinking in order to score political points on behalf of the weak minded.
The same hand wringers will be pissing their panties as soon as some other country displays something that they consider offesnsive, so give it a rest.
Bang on the money Lincs. Personally I think it would be nice to see the poppy displayed however I can understand that certain countries/religious groups could be slightly upset by it. The point is to remember the dead and what they died for, is not displaying it going to make a difference to that? No it won't. I get the impression most want to use it as an excuse to have a pop at Sepp and his gang.
Im a republican too with a proper mixed heritage but im also a very proud Englishman and grateful to live in such a great country without feeling the need to be nationalistic or xenophobic. Whilst i might not agree with the concept of the royal family or the fact that up til relatively recently Catholics like myself wouldnt get a look in if Anne or Marge had taken a shine to me i dont take any offence in that or see any reason not to be patriotic and proud of this country and (the majority) of the plethora of its great traditions.
I think national anthems,flags hakas and all that malarky are vital in retaining an identity as it is an expression of your culture and where you are from etc.
The Flower of Scotland for example (first one i thought of) is vastly more political than wearing a poppy to pay respect yet it would be just as ridiculous should FIFA declare they be banned from airing it at Wembley and hence why i cant understand the poppy ban.
nice response .. check out the 'unknown' verse 6 of God save the Queen/king .......
Lord grant that Marshal Wade May by thy mighty aid Victory bring May he sedition hush And like a torrent rush Rebellious Scots to crush God save the King
as yet unrepealed .. 'Flower of Scotland'? ... not a mention of crushing the sassenachs ..
A great opportunity for the thick to get in a froth. The Royal British Legion understood that the rule exists for a reason. Nobody has given a piss about a tacky picture of a poppy being put on football shirts for years so why is it becoming an issue now. Wear your poppy with pride, but recognize it's a personal and private thing that really doesn't need to be hijacked by the dumdum let's get angry-for-the-sake of it brigade. You don't need to watch a bunch of millionaires, most of whom don't know or care what the symbol is for playing a meaningless game with a picture on their chest. You've all been around on this earth for decades and have managed to look at sporting events without the participants having pictures of flowers on them.without giving it a second thought, so you might want to consider why it's suddenly become such a gut wrenching issue. Making a connection between an existing rule and the playing of national anthems is pathetic, wrong-thinking in order to score political points on behalf of the weak minded.
The same hand wringers will be pissing their panties as soon as some other country displays something that they consider offesnsive, so give it a rest.
Yeah alright mate. You know me and should know im not thick or a bandwagon jumper but if thats the case let me know.
How long have the Royal British Legion been running the Poppy Appeal? Years and years. We've managed to play internationals in November before without a poppy on our shirts. If we did do it I wonder if replicas would suddenly be available at Wembley at FA stalls? It really is not an issue for us to get worked up about it.
We will see what the fa are made of , wear the poppies with pride and pay the fine then compare it against the peanuts they fine the racist chanting in the stadiums like the Spanish debacle
We will see what the fa are made of , wear the poppies with pride and pay the fine then compare it against the peanuts they fine the racist chanting in the stadiums like the Spanish debacle
Spot on.
Yeah, great thinking. I bet you'd be saying the exact same thing if the nutters in Iran put some Pro-Hezbollah shite on their shirts and then cocked a snook at whatever fine FIFA threw at them.
We will see what the fa are made of , wear the poppies with pride and pay the fine then compare it against the peanuts they fine the racist chanting in the stadiums like the Spanish debacle
Spot on.
Yeah, great thinking. I bet you'd be saying the exact same thing if the nutters in Iran put some Pro-Hezbollah shite on their shirts and then cocked a snook at whatever fine FIFA threw at them.
The rules are there for a reason.
Don't give a shit what they put on their shirts - wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
But then I'm "thick" for having my own personal views, clearly.
Comments
I suspect they mean .....not political, not religious, not commercial , ....over and above the National flag / emblem.........we are at risk of being the scousers of international football, and wishing to impose our own grief, remembrance on any and every one else
Are you on a wind up?
Unless you were in the armed forces and in a position to say that that;s a shocking statement. Perhaps do a bit of reading about history and see what brave normal people went through and sacrificed and do so today so you can have the freedom to post tripe on a football forum.
Soldiers and people drafted dont decide what wars they fight its the politicians that deal with the politics and send them there. And if players wearing a poppy at Wembley to remember those souls makes me a whining scouser then pass me a shell suit.
Light blue touch paper... I will start. Absolute bollocks. There would not even be a FIFA without the heroes who fought to free Europe. "Our" remembrance is their remembrance.
Cos i lived there for four years and old habits die hard. Calm down, calm down, la.
If they weren't allowing the minute silence I would understand the uproar.
A spokesman for the charity said: "The Royal British Legion is
grateful for the widespread support it enjoys from the sporting
community. Once again this year the support has been phenomenal.
"However,
we appreciate that showing support is not always possible under some
regulations and we would never seek to impose ourselves in these
situations."
I actually agree with FIFA on this one. Although as a nation most of us view our servicemen and women as heroes to be honoured and helped there are plenty of people around the world who do not. Like it or not wearing a poppy does have a political connotation. As Clausewitz said "War is the continuation of politics by other means." FIFA's ruling is actually sensible. If an Israeli team wanted to wear an emblem honouring members of the Stern Gang who were killed or wounded, (most Israelis do admire them), there would be outrage in this countries.
If the members of the England team want to wear poppies going to and from the ground and going about their everyday business no one is going to stop them and that is their business. If England supporters want to wear poppies they can. The England teams from 1918 to the 1960's would have had many players who had first hand knowledge of the two world wars. They would have actually known many of those who died or who were maimed. Many of those teams would have contained players who served and been wounded themselves. They didn't feel the need to wear a poppy emblem whilst playing so why the great fuss now?
Just in case people think I am Right On vegan leftie, My username of this forum is a village on the Somme and I go there several times a year to pay tribute to the men who lie there still. I do wear my poppy with pride but I take it off however when I go to bed, have a bath or play five a side football.
Lincs Ive got Irish heritage and I would walk into an Irish pub (in England) with a poppy on and would never have even thought anything of it before reading ur post.
Its not a political statement its about remembering people who gave their lives for reasons and politics that they probably had absolutely no political control over.
The game is in England against Spain. Why anyone with any interest in that fixture would take offence or object to players showing respect and rememberance for ordinary people who have sacrificed their lives mostly without a real choice in the matter is beyond me. And if they do well f*** em.
FIFA have got this absolutely spot on, football has to stay clear of international politics as much as it possibly can, the consequences of the game being used as a proxy vehicle for international conflicts are horrible to think about.
IN MY HEART I agree with what you feel, (I have got into more than one heated situation thru wearing a poppy but that is me !!), ... the BUT is .. and MY HEAD tells me that FIFA is international and must attempt to disassociate itself as far as possible from any hint of nationalisnm or favoritism in games under its auspices, FIFA can't afford to say 'f*** em'. The poppy like it or not IS a quasi nationalistic symbol and MIGHT cause offence. You and I may say 'so fucking what?' FIFA can't afford to do so.
We will remember them
Hello,
We at FIFA are aware of some complaints of how we run our federation. we would like to now take this opportunity to explain our decisions so you can fully understand our postion on the following matters.
Poopys on the England national teams shirt - far to political. Dont want to hurt the feeling of the fascists.
goal line technolgy - We feel that goal line technolgy might aid England.
Not banning teams or countries for holigans, corruption and rascism - Well if we did that how many teams do you reckon would be left?
The 2022 world cup being bought by Qatar - We at FIFA find this statement absurbed. Qatar is a footballing nation who yes at the moment dont actually own a football. But my god with the amount of money they seem to be throwing about they'll soon buy one.
The 2018 world cup being bought by Russia- We felt Russia had a good presentation which i swear is what persuaded us and not all the presents from the Kremlin. It also had nothing to do with the fact they were against Englands bid. Also the lies on that BBC panarama documentry and in the British press did not sway our vote either way.
Having seb blater reinstated without election as FIFA president when his oppoment Bin Hammam from Quator was charged for briabry and also appointing Hayatou President of FIFA's Olympic committee even though under investigation for alleged bribery.- erm...
I hope that clears up a few things. FIFA (fucking it for all) are proud of our decisions and of our organisation.
Just to be clear, we are not riddled with corruption. honest.
Sebb Blatter.
FIFAs big bad boss.
Fair point Lincs and id be more open to your opinion if FIFA were'nt the corrupt, hypocritical and immoral bunch of scumbags that they quite evidently are.
The issue has been blown out of all proportion in my mind but only in that there should have been no issue at all. Why on earth anyone thought to ask FIFA's permission on it shows that there are people in the FA who have got warped priorities if that crossed their mind. And if it was Fifa themselves who brought it up first well their priorities are certainly skewed as they have bigger issues concerning getting their house in order than whether players in a 3rd rate football team choose to pubicly pay their respects to the dead.
Its all so hypocritical..... FIFA's anti political stance could then be to to ban national anthems which are often overtly nationalistic inherently and with political conotations eg Flower of Scotland? (which would be ridiculous if that was banned)
Always good to have diff opinons mate,.
Im a republican too with a proper mixed heritage but im also a very proud Englishman and grateful to live in such a great country without feeling the need to be xenophobic or overly nationalistic. Whilst i might not agree with the concept of the royal family or the fact that up til relatively recently Catholics like myself wouldnt get a look in if Anne or Marge had taken a shine to me i dont take any offence in that or see any reason not to be patriotic and proud of this country and (the majority) of the plethora of its great traditions.
I think national anthems,flags hakas and all that malarky are vital in retaining an identity as it is an expression of your culture and where you are from etc.
The Flower of Scotland for example (first one i thought of) is vastly more political than wearing a poppy to pay respect yet it would be just as ridiculous should FIFA declare they be banned from airing it at Wembley and hence why i cant understand the poppy ban.
The same hand wringers will be pissing their panties as soon as some other country displays something that they consider offesnsive, so give it a rest.
nice response .. check out the 'unknown' verse 6 of God save the Queen/king .......
Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush
God save the King
as yet unrepealed .. 'Flower of Scotland'? ... not a mention of crushing the sassenachs ..
Yeah alright mate. You know me and should know im not thick or a bandwagon jumper but if thats the case let me know.
How long have the Royal British Legion been running the Poppy Appeal? Years and years. We've managed to play internationals in November before without a poppy on our shirts. If we did do it I wonder if replicas would suddenly be available at Wembley at FA stalls? It really is not an issue for us to get worked up about it.
Wear your poppy with pride.
Yeah, great thinking. I bet you'd be saying the exact same thing if the nutters in Iran put some Pro-Hezbollah shite on their shirts and then cocked a snook at whatever fine FIFA threw at them.
The rules are there for a reason.