I find it infuriating that people are slagging England off for 'not being technically good enough'.
It is what it is! They did the very best they could and they have showed some pride and guts this tournament. We have been crying out for that for years. Now we have finally got it, idiots want to just pick on them for not being better than their own capabilities.
Yes Italy were the better team. Truth is, they couldn't score past us. We had a plan, it very nearly worked.
Some people don't deserve to see their country have success the way they treat them.
If this was Charlton up against a much better side and had managed to hold on for that long, there is no way everyone would be giving it to them like they are with England.
Don't think anyones "giving it to them" - surely when things don't go to plan you review what went wrong and how you can do better next time. That's how you improve , surely you'd like England to do better ?
Am I the only one not that gutted? I wouldn't swap a league win against Birmingham over England winning Euro 2012
I'm gutted but as I said i didnt expect us to do well. Still hurts though.
I am club AND country. Support both equally. Losing tonight is as painful as when Charlton get knocked out of a competition 2 games from possible glory.
As for the "back to their mansions" comment...I doubt any player in that tournament lives in a 2 up 2 down terraced gaff. Every player in the tournament is probably a multi millionaire living a life beyond most people's reach.
They are far from perfect the England players but I guarantee they all did their best and will all be absolutely gutted tonight.
Lets face facts , we do not have the depth in quality that Spain or Germany have at the moment , it was only a matter of time before we were left wanting , as soon as we came up against a half decent side we didn't know how to handle them , sure Joe Hart is a fine keeper , Spain have 3/4 decent keepers , England do not have Midfield players that can keep the ball and use it for 90 minutes , getting out of the group stage was a job well done with the squad we have got at the moment , Rooney was poor tonight and unable to influence the game , perhaps we rely on him too much , we need more game changers , at least Roys got time to try and build another squad , but has he got the players?
Kyle Walker , Jack Wilshire , are all positives that could make a difference , and the Ox will get better , but who else is there?
I think Roy Hodgson did the best he could reasonably be expected to do and organised the team well. However, our limitations run deep. We have only a fraction of the number of youth coaches that they have in Germany, Spain and Italy and our ball retention continues to be poor - something that will nearly always prove telling at the top level when you get to the later stages of a competition. Those fundamentals need to be addressed. Our players were physically and mentally out on their feet tonight and we were, in truth, outclassed by a very decent Italian side. Apart from a few dangerous free kicks from Gerrard and Welbeck's chance in the first half, we were clinging on for penalties. Rooney looked unfit and is at risk of developing a reputation as a non-performer in the big games.
Hodgson did pretty well. Let's face it - he's hardly spoilt for choice of players, given the small number of English players at most top Premiership clubs.
I think defence wise we arguably had the best back 5 in the tournament, however we lacked a player in midfield with even a fraction of the vision or passing ability of Pirlo - in my decades of watching England the only players I can recall to come close to that kind of ability have definitely been Hoddle & possibly on the rare occassion Le Tissier/Gazza.
Do we have anyone coming through or are we just looking forward to another generation of try-hards like Gerrard/Parker/Lampard?
We just lack & have always lacked enough creativity & control in the midfield to beat the best, our chances today (& in the previous 3 games) were in the main coming from set pieces. Physicality, never say die & directness will take you past the Swedens and the Ukraines - but we generally lack the guile against the best.
Having said that if Rooney had connected fractionally lower on his foot with the bicycle kick in the 92nd minute we'd be looking forward to Germany on Thursday!
Utter pathetic garabage....can't believe I wasted 2 hours of my 50th birthday watching that crap......if this is what Hodgson serves up count me out...I liked the crappy teams we had in the past who thought they were good players and gave it a go with the same result....couldn't put 2 passes together. Rooney, Young, Carroll were useless.....Parker was made to look a pratt by Pirlo....
no excuess for tonights performance. If some of you above want to say, well they gave it their all and this is as good as we can be, so be it.
I say, when top players who play in the premiership cant pass the ball to each other then their is something wrong. Had nothing to do with technical ability its basic football, in which every single one of them are usually quite good at. In the first 10 minutes of that game, we looked good. why did we stop playing like that? Why from the eleventh minute to the final whistle of extra time we kept giving the ball away? why is it that we have players who turn straight into trouble. why is their first touch so dreadful? why are they so off the pace?
Rooney was useless. swanning around in the middle. never tackling back - was he as good as he can be? Young, when he actually got control of the ball, very rarely, he would then go straight into a Italian player and lose it - was he as good as he can be? scott parker, steven gerrard, milner, cole, johnson, giving the ball away when it was an easy pass. were they as good as they can be? I've seen every one of these players play for England and for their club before and they all can play better than that. a hell of alot better than that. Do i think they weren't trying. no I think most were. I cant explain why they were so inept. only they might have some idea. I just find it so hard to believe that players like them can be so terrible against a side who on the day looked beatable. Terry for me was the only player apart from Hart who can come out of that game and feel he's done his best. The others, who knows what they think.
Utter pathetic garabage....can't believe I wasted 2 hours of my 50th birthday watching that crap......if this is what Hodgson serves up count me out...I liked the crappy teams we had in the past who thought they were good players and gave it a go with the same result....couldn't put 2 passes together. Rooney, Young, Carroll were useless.....Parker was made to look a pratt by Pirlo....
Harsh on Hodgson. He did the best with what was available.
I think defence wise we arguably had the best back 5 in the tournament, however we lacked a player in midfield with even a fraction of the vision or passing ability of Pirlo - in my decades of watching England the only players I can recall to come close to that kind of ability have definitely been Hoddle & possibly on the rare occassion Le Tissier/Gazza.
Do we have anyone coming through or are we just looking forward to another generation of try-hards like Gerrard/Parker/Lampard?
We just lack & have always lacked enough creativity & control in the midfield to beat the best, our chances today (& in the previous 3 games) were in the main coming from set pieces. Physicality, never say die & directness will take you past the Swedens and the Ukraines - but we generally lack the guile against the best.
Having said that if Rooney had connected fractionally lower on his foot with the bicycle kick in the 92nd minute we'd be looking forward to Germany on Thursday!
This is what worries me. We have acknowledged a fundamental problem in our national game from youth up to the top but have failed to address it.
Was watching the game with mates and family and my brother (in his late 20s) said at training last season he asked his Portuguese team mate what he thought of their training session and how it was different to training in Portugal. They were doing passing drills and his mate said that in Portugal they had all that down as 7 or 8 year olds and became accomplished at such technical aspects from an early age.
Our game is very much around the physical aspects which is evident when you see the kids who make it at academies in this country...usually the big, athletic kids who have a growth spurt ahead of the their peers. Thing is the top class nationals sides seem to nail the technical and tactical aspects from an early age and then grow physically whereas ours seem to rely on the getting stuck in attitude. It makes for an exciting premiership but we come unstuck when it matters at international level.
I remember Craig Johnston being really passionate about it years back ...
I despaired when the pundits didnt address this after the game tonight and instead just made blaise comments about World Cup qualifiers.
Everyone makes mistakes but only fools repeat them.
It's unfair as we are such a passionate football nation but we are being failed. Until we really address the football development from the parks to the premiership in this country we'll continue to be the almost rans.
Every premiership team needs 2 or 3 English players for their spirit, unfortunately England has to have 11 of them
Sums it up for me. For England in 6 years time see Scotland NOW! The game is dead. Its nothing to do with Cole being shyte or Rooney being pants. A fundamental problem at grass roots. That second half was probably one of the worst I've ever seen. And I've been watching Charlton for over 20 years!
Hodgson did what he could with a poor technical pool of players to choose from. I'm proud of what we acheived, but then I'm realistic and didn't expect anything more.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks the Premier league is the best and happily pays Sky their money to watch the footie thinking how wonderful it is, is not allowed to complain about the England team. Whilst the status quo continues and the FA are earning huge amounts of money from the public mugs and the johnny come football lately's, nothing about our national team and their style and ability is going to change. As David Baddiel said; Give the FA the choice of England winning a cup or hosting it and they would choose hosting.
Only a few years ago the German team were in a worse position than we are. Now they're arguably the best team in the world. The German FA earns 10's of Millions less every year than the English FA yet they manage to spend 10's of millions more than us every year on youth and lower level football. And the fans get to watch top level games for £20!
Whilst we choose to like the power and speed and poor technical ability of English football, nothing is going to change. So stop moaning and slagging the management and players off and just put up with it. (Unless, like me, you haven't been sucked into the Sky golden football era bollocks, in which case you can say what you want).
In top eight but nowhere near top four is about right. Like watching a champ side who have made it to FA quarters coming up against a top half of Prem side. You dont expect class but applaud the attitude.
I played for a few years over here in Canada before semi-retiring, the level was mediocre but also a real mixture of nationalities from all over the world - the Latin Americans & most of the (especially Southern) Europeans I played with were simply light years ahead of the Brits & Canadians basic technique wise - it has to be down to coaching at a very young level....
Anyone slagging Hodgson off is wide of the mark. 2 friendlies and 6 training sessions before getting on the plane, not to mention before picking the squad. Out of order. About as much as we could hope for with a limited, injury-ravaged squad and a manager who should still be bedding in.
I played for a few years over here in Canada before semi-retiring, the level was mediocre but also a real mixture of nationalities from all over the world - the Latin Americans & most of the (especially Southern) Europeans I played with were simply light years ahead of the Brits & Canadians basic technique wise - it has to be down to coaching at a very young level....
I think it is and it is about mentality, approach and attitude towards the game.
Love our national side and it is so painful to see us repeating the same mistakes again and again. Someone needs to rock the comfy shirt and tie brigade at the Sweet FA and really shake up the game over here from top to bottom.
We have the population, the facilities and the interest in this country to achieve better than we do so something in our current system or psychology is inherently wrong and hindering us from doing so.
Anyone slagging Hodgson off is wide of the mark. 2 friendlies and 6 training sessions before getting on the plane, not to mention before picking the squad. Out of order. About as much as we could hope for with a limited, injury-ravaged squad and a manager who should still be bedding in.
Hodgson can walk away with his head held high, as I think only the Euro 96 defence surpasses that defensive effort in my 35+ years of watching England.....
I should of added; Defensively I thought we were fantastic. Could still be playing now without conceding. But unfortunately you do have to push past the halfway line now and again.
Group A: Poland Group B: Germany Group C: Spain Group Ukraine
No teams from A and D left at the semi final stage. The seeding system needs to change for next time around because, considering the quality in each group, that made for a badly biased draw.
A great rearguard defensive effort, in terms of blocks and last ditch tackles, but dismal otherwise. The teams we had 5-10 years ago came up short, but when you compare people like Beckham, Scholes and Joe Cole, against the likes of Millner, Walcott, Young, Henderson it's no contest.
Hodgson was fantastic in the limited time he had. Anyone who thinks Arry could have done better is delusional. Defensively we were great but offensively we were appalling. Rooney needs to stay at home at the next Tournament until he realises that putting 50% effort in is not good enough and that just because you play for man United it doesn't mean you have the god given right to do bugger all. ( Ashley young take note).
Utter pathetic garabage....can't believe I wasted 2 hours of my 50th birthday watching that crap......if this is what Hodgson serves up count me out...I liked the crappy teams we had in the past who thought they were good players and gave it a go with the same result....couldn't put 2 passes together. Rooney, Young, Carroll were useless.....Parker was made to look a pratt by Pirlo....
Harsh on Hodgson. He did the best with what was available.
I dont think harsh. Rooney is not fit or not interested maybe both. Second touch more often than not was a challenge. Wellbeck the best threat taken off for Carroll who looked lost Young previous poor games yet still gets to play in the forth Hart a goalkeeper that cant catch a ball, always chooses to punch. Kicking made Kielys look pin point Milner, he got that sub right but should he have even been starting in front of Walcott? We didnt defend well ( not by a long chalk) the Italians missed time after time We had no game plan apart from, lets see what happens, we might get lucky on penalties If we still had Fabio in charge tonight and he served that crock of poo up we would be screaming for his head. Thankfully we are now spared playing the Germans.
A great rearguard defensive effort, in terms of blocks and last ditch tackles, but dismal otherwise. The teams we had 5-10 years ago came up short, but when you compare people like Beckham, Scholes and Joe Cole, against the likes of Millner, Walcott, Young, Henderson it's no contest.
Utter pathetic garabage....can't believe I wasted 2 hours of my 50th birthday watching that crap......if this is what Hodgson serves up count me out...I liked the crappy teams we had in the past who thought they were good players and gave it a go with the same result....couldn't put 2 passes together. Rooney, Young, Carroll were useless.....Parker was made to look a pratt by Pirlo....
Harsh on Hodgson. He did the best with what was available.
I dont think harsh. Rooney is not fit or not interested maybe both. Second touch more often than not was a challenge. Wellbeck the best threat taken off for Carroll who looked lost Young previous poor games yet still gets to play in the forth Hart a goalkeeper that cant catch a ball, always chooses to punch. Kicking made Kielys look pin point Milner, he got that sub right but should he have even been starting in front of Walcott? We didnt defend well ( not by a long chalk) the Italians missed time after time We had no game plan apart from, lets see what happens, we might get lucky on penalties If we still had Fabio in charge tonight and he served that crock of poo up we would be screaming for his head. Thankfully we are now spared playing the Germans.
Be honest the vast majority of that is absolute tripe
Rooney had to play even though he wasn't fit because there is always the chance he can make something happen Carroll won everything in the air Young poor agreed Hart is absolutely immense Milner played because he holds a flank and gives balance you can't have 2 fliers We did defend well We did have a game plan, hold and counter attack, the players couldn't implement it If we still had Fabio in charge we would still be going backwards Agreed the Germans would batter us
Tactics were wrong, for me. Whenever one of our players had the ball there were at least two of their players coming in to tackle. When they had the ball our players were standing off at least a yard, and allowing them to pass. This happened everywhere on the pitch. No wonder they had 63% possession, they weren't tackled and always allowed to pass.
Comments
It is what it is! They did the very best they could and they have showed some pride and guts this tournament. We have been crying out for that for years. Now we have finally got it, idiots want to just pick on them for not being better than their own capabilities.
Yes Italy were the better team. Truth is, they couldn't score past us. We had a plan, it very nearly worked.
Some people don't deserve to see their country have success the way they treat them.
If this was Charlton up against a much better side and had managed to hold on for that long, there is no way everyone would be giving it to them like they are with England.
I am club AND country. Support both equally. Losing tonight is as painful as when Charlton get knocked out of a competition 2 games from possible glory.
As for the "back to their mansions" comment...I doubt any player in that tournament lives in a 2 up 2 down terraced gaff. Every player in the tournament is probably a multi millionaire living a life beyond most people's reach.
They are far from perfect the England players but I guarantee they all did their best and will all be absolutely gutted tonight.
Kyle Walker , Jack Wilshire , are all positives that could make a difference , and the Ox will get better , but who else is there?
Hodgson did pretty well. Let's face it - he's hardly spoilt for choice of players, given the small number of English players at most top Premiership clubs.
Do we have anyone coming through or are we just looking forward to another generation of try-hards like Gerrard/Parker/Lampard?
We just lack & have always lacked enough creativity & control in the midfield to beat the best, our chances today (& in the previous 3 games) were in the main coming from set pieces. Physicality, never say die & directness will take you past the Swedens and the Ukraines - but we generally lack the guile against the best.
Having said that if Rooney had connected fractionally lower on his foot with the bicycle kick in the 92nd minute we'd be looking forward to Germany on Thursday!
If some of you above want to say, well they gave it their all and this is as good as we can be, so be it.
I say, when top players who play in the premiership cant pass the ball to each other then their is something wrong. Had nothing to do with technical ability its basic football, in which every single one of them are usually quite good at.
In the first 10 minutes of that game, we looked good. why did we stop playing like that?
Why from the eleventh minute to the final whistle of extra time we kept giving the ball away? why is it that we have players who turn straight into trouble. why is their first touch so dreadful? why are they so off the pace?
Rooney was useless. swanning around in the middle. never tackling back - was he as good as he can be?
Young, when he actually got control of the ball, very rarely, he would then go straight into a Italian player and lose it - was he as good as he can be?
scott parker, steven gerrard, milner, cole, johnson, giving the ball away when it was an easy pass. were they as good as they can be?
I've seen every one of these players play for England and for their club before and they all can play better than that. a hell of alot better than that.
Do i think they weren't trying. no I think most were. I cant explain why they were so inept. only they might have some idea.
I just find it so hard to believe that players like them can be so terrible against a side who on the day looked beatable.
Terry for me was the only player apart from Hart who can come out of that game and feel he's done his best.
The others, who knows what they think.
Was watching the game with mates and family and my brother (in his late 20s) said at training last season he asked his Portuguese team mate what he thought of their training session and how it was different to training in Portugal. They were doing passing drills and his mate said that in Portugal they had all that down as 7 or 8 year olds and became accomplished at such technical aspects from an early age.
Our game is very much around the physical aspects which is evident when you see the kids who make it at academies in this country...usually the big, athletic kids who have a growth spurt ahead of the their peers. Thing is the top class nationals sides seem to nail the technical and tactical aspects from an early age and then grow physically whereas ours seem to rely on the getting stuck in attitude. It makes for an exciting premiership but we come unstuck when it matters at international level.
I remember Craig Johnston being really passionate about it years back ...
but nothing changed. We talk a good game but we need to really change our game at a fundamental level.
I despaired when the pundits didnt address this after the game tonight and instead just made blaise comments about World Cup qualifiers.
Everyone makes mistakes but only fools repeat them.
It's unfair as we are such a passionate football nation but we are being failed. Until we really address the football development from the parks to the premiership in this country we'll continue to be the almost rans.
For England in 6 years time see Scotland NOW!
The game is dead. Its nothing to do with Cole being shyte or Rooney being pants.
A fundamental problem at grass roots.
That second half was probably one of the worst I've ever seen.
And I've been watching Charlton for over 20 years!
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who thinks the Premier league is the best and happily pays Sky their money to watch the footie thinking how wonderful it is, is not allowed to complain about the England team. Whilst the status quo continues and the FA are earning huge amounts of money from the public mugs and the johnny come football lately's, nothing about our national team and their style and ability is going to change. As David Baddiel said; Give the FA the choice of England winning a cup or hosting it and they would choose hosting.
Only a few years ago the German team were in a worse position than we are. Now they're arguably the best team in the world. The German FA earns 10's of Millions less every year than the English FA yet they manage to spend 10's of millions more than us every year on youth and lower level football. And the fans get to watch top level games for £20!
Whilst we choose to like the power and speed and poor technical ability of English football, nothing is going to change. So stop moaning and slagging the management and players off and just put up with it. (Unless, like me, you haven't been sucked into the Sky golden football era bollocks, in which case you can say what you want).
Love our national side and it is so painful to see us repeating the same mistakes again and again. Someone needs to rock the comfy shirt and tie brigade at the Sweet FA and really shake up the game over here from top to bottom.
We have the population, the facilities and the interest in this country to achieve better than we do so something in our current system or psychology is inherently wrong and hindering us from doing so.
Defensively I thought we were fantastic. Could still be playing now without conceding.
But unfortunately you do have to push past the halfway line now and again.
Group B: Germany
Group C: Spain
Group
No teams from A and D left at the semi final stage. The seeding system needs to change for next time around because, considering the quality in each group, that made for a badly biased draw.
Rooney is not fit or not interested maybe both. Second touch more often than not was a challenge.
Wellbeck the best threat taken off for Carroll who looked lost
Young previous poor games yet still gets to play in the forth
Hart a goalkeeper that cant catch a ball, always chooses to punch. Kicking made Kielys look pin point
Milner, he got that sub right but should he have even been starting in front of Walcott?
We didnt defend well ( not by a long chalk) the Italians missed time after time
We had no game plan apart from, lets see what happens, we might get lucky on penalties
If we still had Fabio in charge tonight and he served that crock of poo up we would be screaming for his head.
Thankfully we are now spared playing the Germans.
Rooney had to play even though he wasn't fit because there is always the chance he can make something happen
Carroll won everything in the air
Young poor agreed
Hart is absolutely immense
Milner played because he holds a flank and gives balance you can't have 2 fliers
We did defend well
We did have a game plan, hold and counter attack, the players couldn't implement it
If we still had Fabio in charge we would still be going backwards
Agreed the Germans would batter us
Weren't good enough to be fair and i'm nowhere as gutted as i have been before, didnt expect QF's pre-tourni