We just can't keep the ball, we said the same 5 years ago when we didn't qualify for Euro 2008 and we said the same 2 years ago hopefully there's work behind the scenes redeveloping the way we play from grassroots.
I don't think the two strikers should be to blame. I think the midfield need to chip in with goals too. I mean, there was a period of about 2 months last season where all our goals came from defence or midfield.
I didn't watch much of the match because I was working but I watched what I could and from what I could see, our defence were brilliant and so was their keeper. Their midfield were brilliant, ours went missing. I could also see that both attackers weren't great. Their defence wasn't great either as they allowed the ball to bounce in the 6 yard box a few times and Buffon had to save their bacon.
Hodgeson is not to blame, the FA are. They need to take a leaf out of the Spaniards book. They know how to play properly and that's because they're technically sound at grass roots levels.
Well done England. I think we have had a good tournament. Held the french and the Italians. Beat the hosts and beat our bogey team (and a strong team) in the Swedes.
We went as far as we could with the players we had available and also with some under performers in there With Rooneys non performances Defoe deserved more game time But before the Prem arrived England have been shit so it isn't just the premiershits fault As disappointing as it was ,you can't get greedy, if Charlton didn't give your footballing ego a good rub up last season I wouldn't bother watching the game again cos nothing (football wise)will make you happy , "We are the Champions" is still getting aired and sung in this household .....
Would you accept foreign born players if it improved the team ? In example, watching the game last night and seeing get over run in the middle I couldn't help but think Mikel Arteta was sitting at home who is able to control and pass a ball better than anyone in the England side, and he's elligable. Other nations have gone down that road, if it brought greater success would you welcome it ?
Don't know why all the defence for Hodgson. He's supposed to be a fine tactician. England played far too deep for the whole tournament, giving the midfield away and getting over-run. We were beaten (deservedly) by one of the poorest Italian sides in years. He played Milner, Young and Rooney who were dire and were liabilities. You can't have 3 players not performing at any level, let alone this stage. The only things it proved to me is That we are not good enough Rooney is most certainly NOT world clas Roy Hodgson is yet another England manager who did not have the balls to leave him out and was tactically inept. Pirlo had so much time, he could have got a bit of sun bathing in.
To be honest I posted on this site that I had no interest in the England team anymore after the last world cup but if you are a footie fan you get drawn in. In one way they did better than I expected in that they managed to qualify out of the group stages and whatever the failings (and there were quite a few) the game against Sweden was pretty good. The team remained well organised and defended well but way too deep against Italy, we didn't have anyone near the quality of Pirlo and that is what we have been missing for years, a gifted playmaker.
Rooney was way off the pace and in my opinion actually made the team worse not better once again he has had an awful tournament. In these situations managers have to be brave and make the right decisions by and large Roy Hodgson got most things right but last night he should have taken Rooney off he was puffing like an old beaver and contributing absolutely nothing
Sad but honour intact and Hodgson will do well for us if he can persuade the FA to finally invest in some skills coaching. The need for it was evident and much discussed in 1976 when Antonin Panenka's 'falling leaf' penalty in the European Championship final showed the world what skills practising could achieve. Since then we've erm, well we've got a new Wembley. IMO, it's time to stop adding to the scapegoats list and instead to kick the FA into waking up.
I thought we played some pretty decent stuff for 20 minutes and was feeling optimistic. But after that we just lost our way big time. The 2nd half and extra time we were not in the game at all and it surprised me that it went as far as penalties. Gerrard dissappeared, Young and Milner are NOT international players which left Parker, who ran his socks off, the only effective man in midfield. No wonder Pirlo had the freedom of Kiev to dictate matters. Thought Rooney played to his usual level for England (crap), Carroll looked as nimble as a cart horse trying to control a marble and Walcott didn't make the impact I thought he would. I don't think we will be a potent force for a few years but was happy to see an England team with a bit of harmony.
All this grass roots stuff that people are hoping and talking about - dream on....
These tournaments come around for a few weeks every couple of years. The rest of the time the likes of Arsenal, City, United, Chelsea etc are purely interested in winning their own battles.
Give it a couple of months, and when the Premier League starts, go and ask an Arsenal fan what they would prefer - English success or their club to win the league with a load of foreigners? I know what their answer will be.
Welbeck, best threat? Not having that, I'd put the guy in the same category as Johnson, Milner and Young. Useless.
It goes back to the old argument. Until the FA start coaching the kids properly we won't win anything. On reflection the whole tournament was an embarrassement, every team out passed us. Copy the German model.
All this grass roots stuff that people are hoping and talking about - dream on....
These tournaments come around for a few weeks every couple of years. The rest of the time the likes of Arsenal, City, United, Chelsea etc are purely interested in winning their own battles.
Give it a couple of months, and when the Premier League starts, go and ask an Arsenal fan what they would prefer - English success or their club to win the league with a load of foreigners? I know what their answer will be.
I am 100% percent sure the answer would be the same for any club, even ours if you asked fans. I would prefer CAFC went up last season as champions then England wining the Euro. Grass roots wont happen because their is too much money in the game
All this grass roots stuff that people are hoping and talking about - dream on....
These tournaments come around for a few weeks every couple of years. The rest of the time the likes of Arsenal, City, United, Chelsea etc are purely interested in winning their own battles.
Give it a couple of months, and when the Premier League starts, go and ask an Arsenal fan what they would prefer - English success or their club to win the league with a load of foreigners? I know what their answer will be.
I am 100% percent sure the answer would be the same for any club, even ours if you asked fans. I would prefer CAFC went up last season as champions then England wining the Euro. Grass roots wont happen because their is too much money in the game
Yes it is the same with any club. I just used the Arsenal example as they are the calibre of club that produces international footballers at a top level.
Unfortunately I think it is a trend that has gone too far to be reversed now. We have veered far too far away from an 'English' football system in this country. To the point where a lot of the managers, players, chairmen, commercial directors etc aren't even English. Why would they want to put England first??
Group A: Poland Group B: Germany Group C: Spain Group Ukraine
No teams from A and D left at the semi final stage. The seeding system needs to change for next time around because, considering the quality in each group, that made for a badly biased draw.
Completely agree with this. Only one first seeded team in a predictable last 4 (in fact only one made it to the last 8). It's ridiculous that the hosts get seedings and cushy groups to try and baby them into the next round. If you're the host you get free qualification and home advantage, a further leg-up in the form of a seeding is just taking the mickey.
If they scrapped seeding altogether it would make for a more even draw.
the positive is, there is a decent group of ball playing technical players at under 21 and under 18 levels, who hopefully won't have it coached out of them in the Premier League
The main excuse is that the Italians were simply just better than us. We had the chance to sneak through on pens and we blew it. They were cool and calm.
Our back 5 showed great commitment throughout it all. I applaud the defensive side of our game as they just didn't stop and handled the pressure very well.
In a game like this, 442, possession wise, will not help. We all know that. 4-3-3 with ox and Walcott either side of Rooney, phill jones in the middle with Gerrard and Parker I believe would have gave us more of a chance.
Hodgson, as much as I like him, didn't have the courage to change a winning team into something more suitable.
We had a great 20min spell at the start of the game where we could have scored. In the end it all wasn't to be, but this time as most people, I don't feel angry at the players, just sad as they gave it a good fight.
We have been unlucky with injuries too. If lamps and willshire were in the squad, dare I say it, who knows? That definatly would have helped our cause!
Looking to the future we have a core of young players coming through who can and will take us further as they continue to develop.
Hart Butland Walker Cahill Smalling Jones Gibbs Caulker Wilshere Rodwell Walcott (easy to forget he is still only 23) Oxlade-Chamberlain Sturridge Welbeck
If we can keep Ashley Cole involved and try and get a couple more forwards into that crop we have enough to look optimistically towards WCQ and the WC in 2014 and beyond.
I don't know about you lot, but I did feel confident with Joe Hart between the sticks for the penalty shootout. I'm a big fan of his - a proper character who England fans can identify with.
I don't know about you lot, but I did feel confident with Joe Hart between the sticks for the penalty shootout. I'm a big fan of his - a proper character who England fans can identify with.
Great interaction with the fans as well, always comes over to applaud the support home and away. Comes across as a really good bloke and of course is a very talented goalkeeper with a lot more to come.
I don't know about you lot, but I did feel confident with Joe Hart between the sticks for the penalty shootout. I'm a big fan of his - a proper character who England fans can identify with.
Great interaction with the fans as well, always comes over to applaud the support home and away. Comes across as a really good bloke and of course is a very talented goalkeeper with a lot more to come.
I remember seeing him in a penalty shootout a few years back for the U21s and knew that he would try a few mind games last night. Very nearly got the better of Balotelli!
Think he got himself in a bit of a mess double-guessing about whether he should go back for the same penalty as he did in the CL final, knowing Buffon will have studied it and ended up in two minds which is the worst thing to be in that situation. Shame he didn't just strike it with some conviction, his was one of the best penalties in that CL shoot-out.
So many things need to change for us to compete at international level. A complete overhaul of the way kids are coached. I watch games and can't believe the whole "get stuck in attitude with youngsters". My older brother was a young professional many years ago and was a very talented defender quick, skillfull, played a couple of games for England Youth until Graham Taylor turned up and demanded he whack balls into the channels, and would berate them if they made 5 or 10 yard passes. His clubs attitude wasn't much different. Now Hodgson has a lot more ability than Talyor, obviously, but does he have the personality or even remit to completley change the way football operates in this country, I'd say the same is true for Gareth Southgate and Trevor Brooking, all knowledgable but are they going to upset the idiots at the FA. Then there's the Premier League who have absolutely no interest in the development of homegrown players. They are out to purely line their own pockets and the clubs are complicit in this. The new TV deal has just made it even worse. Limiting foreign players is the first step for me but don't see it ever happening.
What I don't understand is how did Swansea with mainly British second tier players manage to retain the ball so well last season.
I was thinking this too - probably because none of the other teams can pass the ball.
England not keeping the ball has a lot to do with the closing down and workrate of the opposition. When Italy have the ball we stand off, two banks of four, rigid and making sure we are a compact unit. We dont constantly harrass the man in possesion.
The only time we did do this was for 20 minutes when we was on top last night and Italy could get out their half.
When teams like Italy and Spain arent in possesion they have their two banks of four, but the man closest to the ball goes to the oppo player, makes him play, and his team mate is then immediately on top of the recieving player.
What I don't understand is how did Swansea with mainly British second tier players manage to retain the ball so well last season.
I was thinking this too - probably because none of the other teams can pass the ball.
England not keeping the ball has a lot to do with the closing down and workrate of the opposition. When Italy have the ball we stand off, two banks of four, rigid and making sure we are a compact unit. We dont constantly harrass the man in possesion.
The only time we did do this was for 20 minutes when we was on top last night and Italy could get out their half.
When teams like Italy and Spain arent in possesion they have their two banks of four, but the man closest to the ball goes to the oppo player, makes him play, and his team mate is then immediately on top of the recieving player.
We dont do this.
A great point, we go to water when under pressure in possession.
Comments
I didn't watch much of the match because I was working but I watched what I could and from what I could see, our defence were brilliant and so was their keeper. Their midfield were brilliant, ours went missing. I could also see that both attackers weren't great. Their defence wasn't great either as they allowed the ball to bounce in the 6 yard box a few times and Buffon had to save their bacon.
Hodgeson is not to blame, the FA are. They need to take a leaf out of the Spaniards book. They know how to play properly and that's because they're technically sound at grass roots levels.
Well done England. I think we have had a good tournament. Held the french and the Italians. Beat the hosts and beat our bogey team (and a strong team) in the Swedes.
The team did well in the tourney overall - particularly the defence
Limited players grinding out results through discipline
Responsibility for building better players (more able to pass and keep possession) lays firmly with the fa
With Rooneys non performances Defoe deserved more game time
But before the Prem arrived England have been shit so it isn't just the premiershits fault
As disappointing as it was ,you can't get greedy, if Charlton didn't give your footballing ego a good rub up last season I wouldn't bother watching the game again cos nothing (football wise)will make you happy , "We are the Champions" is still getting aired and sung in this household .....
That we are not good enough
Rooney is most certainly NOT world clas
Roy Hodgson is yet another England manager who did not have the balls to leave him out and was tactically inept. Pirlo had so much time, he could have got a bit of sun bathing in.
Rooney was way off the pace and in my opinion actually made the team worse not better once again he has had an awful tournament. In these situations managers have to be brave and make the right decisions by and large Roy Hodgson got most things right but last night he should have taken Rooney off he was puffing like an old beaver and contributing absolutely nothing
These tournaments come around for a few weeks every couple of years. The rest of the time the likes of Arsenal, City, United, Chelsea etc are purely interested in winning their own battles.
Give it a couple of months, and when the Premier League starts, go and ask an Arsenal fan what they would prefer - English success or their club to win the league with a load of foreigners? I know what their answer will be.
Welbeck, best threat? Not having that, I'd put the guy in the same category as Johnson, Milner and Young. Useless.
It goes back to the old argument. Until the FA start coaching the kids properly we won't win anything. On reflection the whole tournament was an embarrassement, every team out passed us. Copy the German model.
Unfortunately I think it is a trend that has gone too far to be reversed now. We have veered far too far away from an 'English' football system in this country. To the point where a lot of the managers, players, chairmen, commercial directors etc aren't even English. Why would they want to put England first??
If they scrapped seeding altogether it would make for a more even draw.
Our back 5 showed great commitment throughout it all. I applaud the defensive side of our game as they just didn't stop and handled the pressure very well.
In a game like this, 442, possession wise, will not help. We all know that. 4-3-3 with ox and Walcott either side of Rooney, phill jones in the middle with Gerrard and Parker I believe would have gave us more of a chance.
Hodgson, as much as I like him, didn't have the courage to change a winning team into something more suitable.
We had a great 20min spell at the start of the game where we could have scored. In the end it all wasn't to be, but this time as most people, I don't feel angry at the players, just sad as they gave it a good fight.
We have been unlucky with injuries too. If lamps and willshire were in the squad, dare I say it, who knows? That definatly would have helped our cause!
Hart
Butland
Walker
Cahill
Smalling
Jones
Gibbs
Caulker
Wilshere
Rodwell
Walcott (easy to forget he is still only 23)
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Sturridge
Welbeck
If we can keep Ashley Cole involved and try and get a couple more forwards into that crop we have enough to look optimistically towards WCQ and the WC in 2014 and beyond.
The only time we did do this was for 20 minutes when we was on top last night and Italy could get out their half.
When teams like Italy and Spain arent in possesion they have their two banks of four, but the man closest to the ball goes to the oppo player, makes him play, and his team mate is then immediately on top of the recieving player.
We dont do this.