Would you accept foreign born players if it improved the team ? In example, watching the game last night and seeing get over run in the middle I couldn't help but think Mikel Arteta was sitting at home who is able to control and pass a ball better than anyone in the England side, and he's elligable. Other nations have gone down that road, if it brought greater success would you welcome it ?
If you can't beat them, join them. So yes I think we should look into that.
Would you accept foreign born players if it improved the team ? In example, watching the game last night and seeing get over run in the middle I couldn't help but think Mikel Arteta was sitting at home who is able to control and pass a ball better than anyone in the England side, and he's elligable. Other nations have gone down that road, if it brought greater success would you welcome it ?
If you can't beat them, join them. So yes I think we should look into that.
Pity that the team went into damp squib mode at the end. IF ONLY Welbeck or Johnson had scored with those great chances early in the game. Welbeck should not have started. Carroll was the man who would have shaken up the Italians, Rooney was too far forward and Young might just as well have stayed back in the team hotel. Terry was superb as were Parker & Lescott. The team needs to develop more confidence and swagger, then it might win something.
In all honesty it's the same old problem that we've had for years and it won't change soon. Our players even the quality ones are technically not as good as other nationalities. First touch and passing and movement is pedestrian and results in inability to keep possession.
Agree completely. Not sure it'll change. In a couple of weeks the Premier league will resume and 99% of supporters won't care if their clubs are developing English talent or not. Worrying about this for a month every two years won't change anything.
Really good point there. By the time the season starts Sky and MOTD will be pumping out the usual tripe about us having world class players running right through the team and everyone will carry on with their head up their bum and their brain in neutral.
I think the nation needs to be honest with itself. We've got the most intriguing and well marketed (didnt say "best" deliberately) domestic league on earth. Do we really care how the national team does ? Is the desire really there ? The oft quoted idea that an influx of foreign players would improve English players hasn't really worked - most leagues in Europe have restrictions on foreign players per team/squad etc. if it was decided that was the way to improve the national team, but to the detriment of the domestic league, is that something you'd want to see ?
Naively maybe, that's a yes from me.
To restrict the number of foreign players per squad would surely mean that the " big" teams can't bring in the creme de la creme from across the Channel and hence would enable the "smaller" Clubs in the prem to compete more fairly IYKWIM. At the moment, money talks big time & for those of us who want to see our Club progress onwards & upwards this would inevitably mean a more level playing field when we reach the Prem again .
Just my humble opinion of course. Feel free to shoot me down....
Considering age, there's a high chance lampard, Gerrard, terry and cole, won't be at World cup final 2014.
It's a little heartbreaking that those players with immense talent have never majorly succeeded at international level.
It's all about the future now, some of the older players need to be forgotten about for the benefit of the England team.
It will be hard to replace John Terry and a few others, and there is no immediate answer that comes to mind. Our younger players, I'm sorry to say, do not show a lot of promise. They need a lot of work.
Players for England in the next 5/6 years? hmmmm....
Jack Wilshire, Phill Jones, joe Hart, the Ox, Walcott, welbeck, carroll, Rooney, jonjo shelvey?
It's hard to tell who will be in the team in the years to come.
To be honest even thinking positively, you cant see us improving on that routine QF exit.
No shots from this direction Fanny, I agree with you 100%, we are in a position now where honours and trophy's are being bought, not won. There is "something" in it for all the foriegn investers at the moment and it all seems good but when that "something" is stopped or goes away it could all end in tears.
In all honesty it's the same old problem that we've had for years and it won't change soon. Our players even the quality ones are technically not as good as other nationalities. First touch and passing and movement is pedestrian and results in inability to keep possession.
Agree completely. Not sure it'll change. In a couple of weeks the Premier league will resume and 99% of supporters won't care if their clubs are developing English talent or not. Worrying about this for a month every two years won't change anything.
Really good point there. By the time the season starts Sky and MOTD will be pumping out the usual tripe about us having world class players running right through the team and everyone will carry on with their head up their bum and their brain in neutral.
I think the nation needs to be honest with itself. We've got the most intriguing and well marketed (didnt say "best" deliberately) domestic league on earth. Do we really care how the national team does ? Is the desire really there ? The oft quoted idea that an influx of foreign players would improve English players hasn't really worked - most leagues in Europe have restrictions on foreign players per team/squad etc. if it was decided that was the way to improve the national team, but to the detriment of the domestic league, is that something you'd want to see ?
Naively maybe, that's a yes from me.
To restrict the number of foreign players per squad would surely mean that the " big" teams can't bring in the creme de la creme from across the Channel and hence would enable the "smaller" Clubs in the prem to compete more fairly IYKWIM. At the moment, money talks big time & for those of us who want to see our Club progress onwards & upwards this would inevitably mean a more level playing field when we reach the Prem again .
Just my humble opinion of course. Feel free to shoot me down....
I disagree, but I wouldn't shoot you down. Its a valid point and will be held by many and this is what I mean when I say we need this debate, what are our priorities ?
For me international football is a welcome distraction in the summer months every couple of years and an unwelcome one the rest of the time. I only want Charlton to win, last year we were "dreaming of a team of Kermorgants" and most fans are the same, club before country.
It was disappointing to lose but, trying to be objective, firstly Italy were the better side on the night and secondly the players throughout the tournament looked like they were interested which was not the case in the 2010 World Cup.
I think Hodgson is the man to take us forward and the trick will be getting the right blend of "old guard" and "bright young thing." I also hope he will have the courage to unceremoniously drop the so called untouchables such as Rooney and Gerrard if (when) they don't perform.
As the great Curbs proved in our halcyon days a TEAM is sometimes greater than the sum of its parts. Carroll and Welbeck might have been more effective than Rooney and either of them for instance.
That said, although I didn't agree with some of them (Henderson for Parker especially), there was at least an understandable logic in Hodgson's substitutions.
We will come back stronger if Hodgson has (is allowed to have) the courage of his convictions.
There is no problem at grass roots, it's academies. They take kids at 7 years old. If they can't get them playing football in 10 years they shouldn't be doing their job.
After the shoot outs in 1990 and 1996 I wondered how I could face the rest of life. Last night was more like minor disappointment given expectations and the way the game had gone. If we'd won on pens I think I might even have felt a bit embarrassed, because it would have been a farce. The saddest part is that I just can't see anything changing. As long as we've got 12 year olds playing on full size pitches and dads on the sideline yelling 'Get it in the mixer!' our football will stay at this level.
What the hell as that got to do with anything. 12 year olds have been in academies 5 years by then. The ones you are referring to clubs don't want because they aint good enough. I wish people realise that 99 per cent of kids who make it as a professional are wrapped up by clubs before they reach 10. So the problem lies with coaching in the academies.
I disagree, but I wouldn't shoot you down. Its a valid point and will be held by many and this is what I mean when I say we need this debate, what are our priorities ?
For me international football is a welcome distraction in the summer months every couple of years and an unwelcome one the rest of the time. I only want Charlton to win, last year we were "dreaming of a team of Kermorgants" and most fans are the same, club before country.
But that's my point exactly, SE9.
Although I support my country too, it's def Club first for me. I'm saying that IF squads in the Prem ( at least) were restricted to , say 3 or 4 foreign players, then it must surely enhance the home grown ones and hence the England team, whilst enabling the less rich Clubs to challenge those with mega bucks in domestic competitions.
I'm not club before country or country before club. When the league season is on I'm thinking about charlton, when England are playing in a finals tournament I'm thinking about England. They don't play each other so there is no need to have a priority.
Well done England. No lack of effort but just weren't good enough.
Stick with Roy, stick with the younger players, keeping building for 2016.
Young wasn't great and missed a pen but we don't need scapegoats, we need to give them time.
Pirlo: have to respect the balls and skill to do that.
Spain v Germany final should be fascinating if it happens.
Pretty much sums it up for me.
Positives - teamwork, togetherness, no shirkers or big time Charlies, good when not in possession, Manager not being slaughtered with time to develop the team
Negatives - still technically behind most of the teams we have to beat, players knackered after long season
We are never going to emulate the Spanish, Portuguese and Italians. We can and should be able to emulate the Germans. They play a high tempo and physical game, coupled with great technique and athleticism.
I'm not club before country or country before club. When the league season is on I'm thinking about charlton, when England are playing in a finals tournament I'm thinking about England. They don't play each other so there is no need to have a priority.
Well said. It does amaze me how when it comes to England results, people always have to bring it back to Charlton. There is practically no link between the two whatsoever.
Bit harsh to be so critical of Cole who didn't have that bad a tournament. If you want to be critical of anyone what about Ashley Young, completely useless thoughout the tournament and then missed the key penalty that would have given us a chance. He shouldn't have started in my view and definitely should have been taken off when we brought Walcott on.
Bit harsh to be so critical of Cole who didn't have that bad a tournament. If you want to be critical of anyone what about Ashley Young, completely useless thoughout the tournament and then missed the key penalty that would have given us a chance. He shouldn't have started in my view and definitely should have been taken off when we brought Walcott on.
He did have a bad tournament but he earned his place in the team with the great build-up he had. Can't blame Hodgson for putting him in the team.
As for the penalty - again I think it's harsh to criticize. He beat the keeper and a few inches lower would have been all the difference. Something like that could happen to anyone.
Well done England. No lack of effort but just weren't good enough.
Stick with Roy, stick with the younger players, keeping building for 2016.
Young wasn't great and missed a pen but we don't need scapegoats, we need to give them time.
Pirlo: have to respect the balls and skill to do that.
Spain v Germany final should be fascinating if it happens.
Pretty much sums it up for me.
Positives - teamwork, togetherness, no shirkers or big time Charlies, good when not in possession, Manager not being slaughtered with time to develop the team
Negatives - still technically behind most of the teams we have to beat, players knackered after long season
We are never going to emulate the Spanish, Portuguese and Italians. We can and should be able to emulate the Germans. They play a high tempo and physical game, coupled with great technique and athleticism.
I largely agree with you and Henry except I disagree that we were either 1. good when not in possession (why did we allow Pirlo the freedom of Kiev in that case?) or 2. knackered after a long season.
We were knackered precisely because we cannot retain possession and not because we've played what is in effect a similar amount of games to everyone else. When you've been chasing shadows for an hour it's no wonder that we start to tire. Let's not go down the road of blaming their workload as excuse for lack of technique and talent.
The Olympic football tournament suddenly becomes a big deal for develop purposes, real chance to pick 10 or 11 young English players and use it as a chance to expose them to proper international football, and the build up to Brazil 2014.
I'm not club before country or country before club. When the league season is on I'm thinking about charlton, when England are playing in a finals tournament I'm thinking about England. They don't play each other so there is no need to have a priority.
So you're "thinking about England" for a month every two years ? That's probably why they'll only ever make the quarters
Bit harsh to be so critical of Cole who didn't have that bad a tournament. If you want to be critical of anyone what about Ashley Young, completely useless thoughout the tournament and then missed the key penalty that would have given us a chance. He shouldn't have started in my view and definitely should have been taken off when we brought Walcott on.
He did have a bad tournament but he earned his place in the team with the great build-up he had. Can't blame Hodgson for putting him in the team.
As for the penalty - again I think it's harsh to criticize. He beat the keeper and a few inches lower would have been all the difference. Something like that could happen to anyone.
I don't think its harsh to blame him for his penalty, if you are going down the middle you don't have to put as much power in as he did, just enough to send it into the net as if the keeper dives you have scored
Comments
To restrict the number of foreign players per squad would surely mean that the " big" teams can't bring in the creme de la creme from across the Channel and hence would enable the "smaller" Clubs in the prem to compete more fairly IYKWIM. At the moment, money talks big time & for those of us who want to see our Club progress onwards & upwards this would inevitably mean a more level playing field when we reach the Prem again .
Just my humble opinion of course. Feel free to shoot me down....
It's a little heartbreaking that those players with immense talent have never majorly succeeded at international level.
It's all about the future now, some of the older players need to be forgotten about for the benefit of the England team.
It will be hard to replace John Terry and a few others, and there is no immediate answer that comes to mind. Our younger players, I'm sorry to say, do not show a lot of promise. They need a lot of work.
Players for England in the next 5/6 years? hmmmm....
Jack Wilshire, Phill Jones, joe Hart, the Ox, Walcott, welbeck, carroll, Rooney, jonjo shelvey?
It's hard to tell who will be in the team in the years to come.
To be honest even thinking positively, you cant see us improving on that routine QF exit.
What is the answer to get England some success?
For me international football is a welcome distraction in the summer months every couple of years and an unwelcome one the rest of the time. I only want Charlton to win, last year we were "dreaming of a team of Kermorgants" and most fans are the same, club before country.
I think Hodgson is the man to take us forward and the trick will be getting the right blend of "old guard" and "bright young thing." I also hope he will have the courage to unceremoniously drop the so called untouchables such as Rooney and Gerrard if (when) they don't perform.
As the great Curbs proved in our halcyon days a TEAM is sometimes greater than the sum of its parts. Carroll and Welbeck might have been more effective than Rooney and either of them for instance.
That said, although I didn't agree with some of them (Henderson for Parker especially), there was at least an understandable logic in Hodgson's substitutions.
We will come back stronger if Hodgson has (is allowed to have) the courage of his convictions.
They take kids at 7 years old. If they can't get them playing football in
10 years they shouldn't be doing their job.
The saddest part is that I just can't see anything changing. As long as we've got 12 year olds playing on full size pitches and dads on the sideline yelling 'Get it in the mixer!' our football will stay at this level.
For me international football is a welcome distraction in the summer months every couple of years and an unwelcome one the rest of the time. I only want Charlton to win, last year we were "dreaming of a team of Kermorgants" and most fans are the same, club before country.
But that's my point exactly, SE9.
Although I support my country too, it's def Club first for me. I'm saying that IF squads in the Prem ( at least) were restricted to , say 3 or 4 foreign players, then it must surely enhance the home grown ones and hence the England team, whilst enabling the less rich Clubs to challenge those with mega bucks in domestic competitions.
Hope that helps !
When the league season is on I'm thinking about charlton, when England are playing in a finals tournament I'm thinking about England.
They don't play each other so there is no need to have a priority.
Positives - teamwork, togetherness, no shirkers or big time Charlies, good when not in possession, Manager not being slaughtered with time to develop the team
Negatives - still technically behind most of the teams we have to beat, players knackered after long season
We are never going to emulate the Spanish, Portuguese and Italians. We can and should be able to emulate the Germans. They play a high tempo and physical game, coupled with great technique and athleticism.
As for the penalty - again I think it's harsh to criticize. He beat the keeper and a few inches lower would have been all the difference. Something like that could happen to anyone.
We were knackered precisely because we cannot retain possession and not because we've played what is in effect a similar amount of games to everyone else. When you've been chasing shadows for an hour it's no wonder that we start to tire. Let's not go down the road of blaming their workload as excuse for lack of technique and talent.