Interesting post from Mundell. However, I dont think the offshore ownership structure - "murky" or not - would prove much of a stumbling block to any serious potential new owner.
The existing structure would be disclosed and the new owners could decide whether they wanted the same or a similar structure, or something completely different. It happens all the time.
If they had any sense they would ensure that siufficient warranties and indemnities were included as part of the deal making the previous liable for anything that may pop ou in the future that occurred on thier "watch", possibly even with some sort of deferred paymentin place.
All guesswork, but my point is that an offshore structure shouldn't really make a whole heap of difference really.
Interesting post from Mundell. However, I dont think the offshore ownership structure - "murky" or not - would prove much of a stumbling block to any serious potential new owner.
The existing structure would be disclosed and the new owners could decide whether they wanted the same or a similar structure, or something completely different. It happens all the time.
If they had any sense they would ensure that siufficient warranties and indemnities were included as part of the deal making the previous liable for anything that may pop ou in the future that occurred on thier "watch", possibly even with some sort of deferred paymentin place.
All guesswork, but my point is that an offshore structure shouldn't really make a whole heap of difference really.
Price – The Club is very hard to value. In reality ownership represents the combination of a significant liability, i.e. funding costs of circa £10m p.a., or more potentially, along with an option which is obviously worth a lot if, but only if, the Club is promoted to the Premier League. If you are an optimistic owner you might think the option “dominates” the liability. If you were a buyer your valuation might be close to zero. All other things being equal you need a desperate seller or a gullible buyer for a deal to complete.
Control – A key issue. Who decides on the annual operating plan, transfer outlays etc? There has to be a dominant partner, but whom? Who is going to commit serious money without control?
Trust – Is critical in any partnership. The murkiness of the offshore vehicle that owns the Football Club along with evidence of late payment of bills would not have inspired confidence.
It’s likely that any serious investor would want to acquire the entirety of the CAFCH holding in Baton and wave goodbye to Jimenez, Cash et al, but they may not have been up for that, especially at the price on offer. Just speculation, but not unreasonable.
What happens next?
There really is no easy way out for Jimenez, Cash et al. If they want their money back, let alone to make a profit, they need to keep funding ongoing losses and hope for promotion or sell. There is no walk-away option. Administration doesn’t help them. Only Jimenez knows how tenuous the funding model is. An optimistic interpretation is that this season is covered with recent discussions about new investment designed either to accelerate a promotion push, but only on his terms, or to convince Cash that there are buyers around if needed. The alternative scenario is that he needs to sell and has messed up. If so, he’ll need to lower his price and keep looking. In the meantime, he’ll be desperate to avoid relegation. Let’s wish him luck!!
The key issues
I’d say there are two.
First, are there potential buyers out there or not? If Jimenez and/or Cash can’t sustain the current level of funding he’ll/they’ll eventually have to swallow his/their pride and sell. A nothing up front, £Xm on promotion to the Premier League deal might, ultimately, be the best they can get. Critically though, this would still be a better outcome for both TJ and the Club than simply walking away. There is some comfort in this – provided there are buyers.
I like the theories here and on the rest of the thread - my first question is how much is the club losing because I've heard numbers a lot less than £10M pa ( £6M and £8M) but no-one can be sure. If it were "only" £6M then this is sustainable! How? By selling 1 x £3M player every year and the owners coughing up the rest as we climb the league up to the play-offs, ideally with an increase on the gate to help cut the losses - but Airman would be the expert on how high the gate might go??? Obviously, the smaller the losses, the more attractive it would be for new participants to take on a share.
Having said all this I think that we should be patient and see what happens in the window and be careful what is written in public - we have already seen journo's picking up on one or two rumours.
I really think that people should join the trust which in turn can look to dig around for facts AND solutions - and incidentally, for me, one of them is not throwing 7 figure transfer fees around as they tend to come with big contracts where the players often don't perform and the losses get bigger and bigger... p'raps we can keep ticking over and let the other clubs fall over and at the same time wait for our academy to freshen up the first team squad? Not an original idea, simply what Charlton did in the 90s when it was touted as a model club.
To me it is more apparent than ever that the fans need to hear from the club... and the club need the fans to dig in and give 100% support as we continue the climb back up the leagues.
I wouldn't worry about the gate money as a consideration in the Championship. They can and I expect will play around with the prices but there are limits to the home sale at this level and even if we are at the top of the table the revenue won't make a material difference to the overall loss.
Won't disagree as I don't have your experience in this matter - my overall point is that we need to look at how clubs like Swansea climbed the leagues WITHOUT spending millions OR someone needs to find a rich backer to assist the club with the climb into the next league AND/OR the CAFC academy needs to re-establish itself as the best in SE London to save the club on transfer fees and perhaps generate the odd multi-million sale... as well as help keeping the wage bill down.
Once again, I ask all to join the trust so that it can continue its expansion and help find solutions.
Please don't shoot the messenger. Posted on Into The Valley
Italian businessmen connected to Italian club Napoli very interested in buying Charlton. Talks on going this week involving concerned parties. The deal has been brokered by another Italian gentleman well known for his connection to another London club. This is where I got the info from today.
Please don't shoot the messenger. Posted on Into The Valley
Italian businessmen connected to Italian club Napoli very interested in buying Charlton. Talks on going this week involving concerned parties. The deal has been brokered by another Italian gentleman well known for his connection to another London club. This is where I got the info from today.
Perhaps the weirdest rumour yet !
Who was the Italian bloke in charge of QPR? Total nutter - the very worst of crazy, trigger happy chairmen.
Comments
The existing structure would be disclosed and the new owners could decide whether they wanted the same or a similar structure, or something completely different. It happens all the time.
If they had any sense they would ensure that siufficient warranties and indemnities were included as part of the deal making the previous liable for anything that may pop ou in the future that occurred on thier "watch", possibly even with some sort of deferred paymentin place.
All guesswork, but my point is that an offshore structure shouldn't really make a whole heap of difference really.
Who's got a picture of tits they can stick up?
a bit small but is this any good?
Having said all this I think that we should be patient and see what happens in the window and be careful what is written in public - we have already seen journo's picking up on one or two rumours.
I really think that people should join the trust which in turn can look to dig around for facts AND solutions - and incidentally, for me, one of them is not throwing 7 figure transfer fees around as they tend to come with big contracts where the players often don't perform and the losses get bigger and bigger... p'raps we can keep ticking over and let the other clubs fall over and at the same time wait for our academy to freshen up the first team squad? Not an original idea, simply what Charlton did in the 90s when it was touted as a model club.
To me it is more apparent than ever that the fans need to hear from the club... and the club need the fans to dig in and give 100% support as we continue the climb back up the leagues.
Once again, I ask all to join the trust so that it can continue its expansion and help find solutions.
Italian businessmen connected to Italian club Napoli very interested in buying Charlton. Talks on going this week involving concerned parties. The deal has been brokered by another Italian gentleman well known for his connection to another London club. This is where I got the info from today.
Perhaps the weirdest rumour yet !
Should be an interesting year!
I actually saw a man driving along whilst emptying his dustbin out of his window
Thank God I didn't mention the horse I saw at Sparrows Lane otherwise the next rumour would be Tescos taking us over.
Made me laugh like mad during that QPR documentary.
We could be to Napoli what Watford are to Udinese. What does everyone think of that? ;-)
When I win the euro millions I will just buy it and put it in the hands of SCP
Now that would be funny------it would give Guardianistas heart failure.