just a quick question for everyone regarding the smoke bombs......how comes the Red Devils were not arrested or critised last season when they flew into the ground with the very same red smoke bombs??
just a quick question for everyone regarding the smoke bombs......how comes the Red Devils were not arrested or critised last season when they flew into the ground with the very same red smoke bombs??
Good shout - I don't remember people going on about "incendary" devices then either.
Seems to me that owning, carrying or letting off these things is NOT illegal. Doing any of that in a football ground IS illegal.
However, assault, burglary, noncing, etc ARE crimes no matter where they are carried out.
Plenty of Pyrotechnic displays at both Wembley (at all the play off games) and at Twickenam before the Six Nations games - and that is as the players come onto the pitch.
Please show me where setting off flares at a sporting event has ever caused panic?
I've seen it dozens of times (even been in amongst it) in Italy. Never seen even the smalllest child in a panic.
It's an open arena, with mulitple means of escape - panic will happen in a dark closed environment which is unfamiliar to you without the benefit of adequate lighting.
People die in crowds when they get crushed in panic situations.
Setting off or throwing a flare may cause panic. This is why they are banned.
It's fairly simple. If you like watching your football live don't bring a flare into the ground.
you are quite correct but as the law states that they are illegal in sports grounds, so how is it that there appears to be exceptions?
I think the fireworks at wembley and twickenham set an example of dont do as i do, do as i say. Before anyone jumps on the old 'they are to far away to hurt anybody' who remembers the welsh lad that died from a firework that got set off in the millenium stadium. That firework hit from approx 50-60 yards
It's an open arena, with mulitple means of escape - panic will happen in a dark closed environment which is unfamiliar to you without the benefit of adequate lighting.
rubbish. I've been with people who've become cragfast on mountains in broad daylight. People can panic anywhere.
It's an open arena, with mulitple means of escape - panic will happen in a dark closed environment which is unfamiliar to you without the benefit of adequate lighting.
rubbish. I've been with people who've become cragfast on mountains in broad daylight. People can panic anywhere.
Agreed - stupid place to let off flares. Could burn through the ropes.
Spent a lot of time looking into and studying human behaviour when there is a fire in a confined space - in light and darkness - and human behaviour when witnessing a fire outside - again in both a mass of people, solitary, during flashover and when suffering from both smoke inhalation and second degree burns and ignition from fires.
I'm currently working on further research on The Valley Parade Fire - again linked to the human behavioural response and the Station Nightclub fire in Rhode Island almost ten years ago.
The one thing you can never determine is people's response to the threat of fire. I've seen senior fire officers panic when suddenly presented with what they thought was a serious fire inside a building.
I can promise you, that in a modern concrete/steel/plastic constructed stand the potential spread of fire is limited - it just doesn't and can't happen. People can panic and do all the wrong things when they see flames or respond to an evacuation shout, but they ain't going to die from either burning or smoke inhalation.
True, there are some grounds where this could still be a problem - but The Valley ain't one of them.
I think if someone lighting a flare at a football match causes you to uncontrollably panic you probably shouldn't be at a crowded sporting event in the first place.
I think if someone lighting a flare at a football match causes you to uncontrollably panic you probably shouldn't be at a crowded sporting event in the first place.
On the other hand why should anyone going to a football match be at all interested in lighting flares, perhaps the pretty colours make them happier than having to watch the boring football match they have laid out a reasonable lump to watch? If people want to play with fireworks perhaps they could just mess around in their back garden. Perhaps flares make people feel subversive and radical, but why spoil a lot of peoples innocent pleasure in watching football?All that will result is the searching of bags will intensify, the queues will be longer and people will have their flasks searched- then it will really kick off in the west stand if fans cant have their hot chocolate.
If people need flares and smoke bombs to enjoy football theres surely something wrong, perhaps they need to watch another more exciting sport. How can anyone justify using flares in a environment where there is even the POSSiBILITY of someone getting hurt whilst just watching football just to improve "atmosphere".
If people need flares and smoke bombs to enjoy football theres surely something wrong, perhaps they need to watch another more exciting sport. How can anyone justify using flares in a environment where there is even the POSSiBILITY of someone getting hurt whilst just watching football just to improve "atmosphere".
But no one needs to sing, clap, talk to their friends or do anything other than literally sit there and watch.
Your world must be a very dull and grey place. You probably think sex should only be for reproductive purposes !
But no one needs to sing, clap, talk to their friends or do anything other than literally sit there and watch.
Your world must be a very dull and grey place. You probably think sex should only be for reproductive purposes ! </blockquote
Nope, just cant understand why you go to football when its obviously not enough for you and you need to look at pretty colours and smoke instead. If you think that football is very dull without flares then I restate perhaps YOU need to chose a more exciting sport. You're maybe the sort of person who only watches motor racing for the crashes or perhaps when you have sex you need to have a lit sparkler up your arse for atmosphere!
Are you aware of how ridiculous your argument makes you sound ? Have you ever joined in with a song (or even clapped your hands in time with one) whilst following Charlton ? Do you cheer when we score a goal ? Do you feel happy or sad depending on our results ?
We don't have to do any of those things, but we want to. They add to the atmosphere and so long as we aren't hurting anyone I don't understand why you would deny others pleasure ? I've never lit a flare in my life but am very happy for others to, it doesn't create any danger (despite some ridiculous assertations to the contrary) and its beyond me why people like you think one should go to a football match, talk to no one, show no encouragement to the team and go home afterwards just because you don't have to do anything else.
I love seeing flares and the football culture that comes with it, I've seen God knows how many lit around the world and will never get bored of it. In Europe and beyond it is a huge part of the match going experience.
However, I don't agree with it in the UK. Generally in most countries it will be behind the goal where the hardcore fans congregate, then away it will usually only be the nutters in attendance anyway. Here it comes across as try-hard and artificial, English football culture has never been about pyro and never will be. They are dangerous as well, people have been scorched by them, lost fingers etc. Otherwise why would the people they send out to collect thrown ones not be in fire hazard suits?
Solo ones also look a bit crap, especially when compared to stuff like this:
Admittedly that is Hadjuk Split fans celebrating their centenary.
Comments
Seems to me that owning, carrying or letting off these things is NOT illegal. Doing any of that in a football ground IS illegal.
However, assault, burglary, noncing, etc ARE crimes no matter where they are carried out.
There's justice at work for you.
Setting off or throwing a flare may cause panic. This is why they are banned.
It's fairly simple. If you like watching your football live don't bring a flare into the ground.
I've seen it dozens of times (even been in amongst it) in Italy. Never seen even the smalllest child in a panic.
It's an open arena, with mulitple means of escape - panic will happen in a dark closed environment which is unfamiliar to you without the benefit of adequate lighting.
I think the fireworks at wembley and twickenham set an example of dont do as i do, do as i say. Before anyone jumps on the old 'they are to far away to hurt anybody' who remembers the welsh lad that died from a firework that got set off in the millenium stadium. That firework hit from approx 50-60 yards
It's an open arena, with mulitple means of escape - panic will happen in a dark closed environment which is unfamiliar to you without the benefit of adequate lighting.
rubbish. I've been with people who've become cragfast on mountains in broad daylight. People can panic anywhere.
Agreed - stupid place to let off flares. Could burn through the ropes.
I'm currently working on further research on The Valley Parade Fire - again linked to the human behavioural response and the Station Nightclub fire in Rhode Island almost ten years ago.
The one thing you can never determine is people's response to the threat of fire. I've seen senior fire officers panic when suddenly presented with what they thought was a serious fire inside a building.
I can promise you, that in a modern concrete/steel/plastic constructed stand the potential spread of fire is limited - it just doesn't and can't happen. People can panic and do all the wrong things when they see flames or respond to an evacuation shout, but they ain't going to die from either burning or smoke inhalation.
True, there are some grounds where this could still be a problem - but The Valley ain't one of them.
I think the for and against debate is a valid one and I still believe that there is no right or wrong answer to this
I am of the opinion that the flares , smoke bombs , bangers are very much atmosphere enhancing
But I can also see how there are some that have a fear of them
ShOuld have been a more commOn visual at English football for years IMO
Your world must be a very dull and grey place. You probably think sex should only be for reproductive purposes !
Your world must be a very dull and grey place. You probably think sex should only be for reproductive purposes !
</blockquote
Nope, just cant understand why you go to football when its obviously not enough for you and you need to look at pretty colours and smoke instead. If you think that football is very dull without flares then I restate perhaps YOU need to chose a more exciting sport. You're maybe the sort of person who only watches motor racing for the crashes or perhaps when you have sex you need to have a lit sparkler up your arse for atmosphere!
Are you aware of how ridiculous your argument makes you sound ? Have you ever joined in with a song (or even clapped your hands in time with one) whilst following Charlton ? Do you cheer when we score a goal ? Do you feel happy or sad depending on our results ?
We don't have to do any of those things, but we want to. They add to the atmosphere and so long as we aren't hurting anyone I don't understand why you would deny others pleasure ? I've never lit a flare in my life but am very happy for others to, it doesn't create any danger (despite some ridiculous assertations to the contrary) and its beyond me why people like you think one should go to a football match, talk to no one, show no encouragement to the team and go home afterwards just because you don't have to do anything else.
However, I don't agree with it in the UK. Generally in most countries it will be behind the goal where the hardcore fans congregate, then away it will usually only be the nutters in attendance anyway. Here it comes across as try-hard and artificial, English football culture has never been about pyro and never will be. They are dangerous as well, people have been scorched by them, lost fingers etc. Otherwise why would the people they send out to collect thrown ones not be in fire hazard suits?
Solo ones also look a bit crap, especially when compared to stuff like this:
Admittedly that is Hadjuk Split fans celebrating their centenary.
That's indoors at a basketball game,no injuries to report
They're meant for emergencies to summon help not used by idiots.