I just get the feeling the board have a budget for the squad and they intend to squeeze every penny of value out of that money. On the basis that plenty of 'value' players are available to pick up during the off season and that we are a more attractive club to play for in the championship then we are going to offer sensible contracts to current players or let them leave. 10 new players may well be signed but i would expect the same number / quality of player to leave. Bringing in new players does not mean the wage bill goes up.
Pioneer I am glad to read your own observations. I'm just a bit reluctant to believe that we would be in a position to sign 10 good players, or even half that number. That would be a big extra investment, on top of the 7m loss that needs to be found just to stand still. Of course if the money is there I'd be delighted. All I would say is that I don't think Richard Murray is aware of such a big new investment coming in, since he seems to have been quite cautious the other night at Bromley
I understood it too mean up to 10 players. ie if say 3or 4 went who are on contracts (Danny Green/Danny Hollands/Jordon Cook/Dale stephens) and 5 or 6 out of contracts (Bwp/ Obika/Fuller/Andy Hughes/Waggy/kerkar) were not renewed then up to 10 new players needed. also no mention of good players, just players!
On the subject of RM being understated on money available at the Bromley meeting - didn't everyone come out depressed from a similar meeting with SCP at the end of the 2010/11 season... just before we went and bought 18 players? Could it be more poker face?
The way I see it there is at least an element of thanks due to the current board for where we are today. It is their money at risk regardless of the motivation, and it's meant we have a club in an arguably healthier position than it was 2 years ago. We've had fans running this club with tremendous success over the years but they made well-meaning but disastrous errors. To a big extent the outcome is as important as the motivation.
That motivation, however, is a very important factor in the ongoing and future development of our Charlton. Like it or not, these guys clearly have an interest in getting their money back and more - which wasn't the primary motivation of previous boards. This means they will be less fussy about where the money comes from, and their interest in the club's long term future is intrinsically tied to the extent to which it refills their own pockets. It's a different risk altogether.
I believe our downfall came from the well-intentioned gamble to give Dowie two years worth of investment in one go. That gamble failed, and it ultimately resulted in our lumbering in League One mid-table with the vultures of administration flying over us. That we survived is undoubtedly due to the board's willingness to forego many millions of pounds for the sake of the club as much as it is to TJ and Slater and the Cash they have or may not have.
Let's play with a scenario here. If the Premiership is the only real means of making money from Charlton, our current board may take a similar gamble on future monies to get there. If they were to do so, and fail, the consequences under a board/owners that don't really care about the club itself and who want every penny of their money back don't bear thinking about - no parachute payments to ease the fall, after all.
It's a shame that Rick and Richard Murray don't seem to see eye to eye right now - but I seem to recall there were plenty of disagreements along the way anyway. What co-joined them was their love for the club and its ongoing development. Right now RM has to protect his own interests and his influence with the board, for what it is - and that's in all our interests - so he needs to be more circumspect than Rick on these matters. But, if there are scenarios such as the above that risk the club and/or the Valley then I'd be less worried about personal relationships and more concerned that the actions of the board are held accountable to us - we're fans and customers in equal measure, and genuine stakeholders in the club. The Trust is part of this, although I have a concern that we're being kept close as enemies rather than friends.
Rick may or may not be overstating things, but he does have a somewhat unique perspective and it would be foolish to disregard the message for the messenger I think.
The way I see it there is at least an element of thanks due to the current board for where we are today. It is their money at risk regardless of the motivation, and it's meant we have a club in an arguably healthier position than it was 2 years ago. We've had fans running this club with tremendous success over the years but they made well-meaning but disastrous errors. To a big extent the outcome is as important as the motivation.
That motivation, however, is a very important factor in the ongoing and future development of our Charlton. Like it or not, these guys clearly have an interest in getting their money back and more - which wasn't the primary motivation of previous boards. This means they will be less fussy about where the money comes from, and their interest in the club's long term future is intrinsically tied to the extent to which it refills their own pockets. It's a different risk altogether.
I believe our downfall came from the well-intentioned gamble to give Dowie two years worth of investment in one go. That gamble failed, and it ultimately resulted in our lumbering in League One mid-table with the vultures of administration flying over us. That we survived is undoubtedly due to the board's willingness to forego many millions of pounds for the sake of the club as much as it is to TJ and Slater and the Cash they have or may not have.
Let's play with a scenario here. If the Premiership is the only real means of making money from Charlton, our current board may take a similar gamble on future monies to get there. If they were to do so, and fail, the consequences under a board/owners that don't really care about the club itself and who want every penny of their money back don't bear thinking about - no parachute payments to ease the fall, after all.
It's a shame that Rick and Richard Murray don't seem to see eye to eye right now - but I seem to recall there were plenty of disagreements along the way anyway. What co-joined them was their love for the club and its ongoing development. Right now RM has to protect his own interests and his influence with the board, for what it is - and that's in all our interests - so he needs to be more circumspect than Rick on these matters. But, if there are scenarios such as the above that risk the club and/or the Valley then I'd be less worried about personal relationships and more concerned that the actions of the board are held accountable to us - we're fans and customers in equal measure, and genuine stakeholders in the club. The Trust is part of this, although I have a concern that we're being kept close as enemies rather than friends.
Rick may or may not be overstating things, but he does have a somewhat unique perspective and it would be foolish to disregard the message for the messenger I think.
Sometimes, wait and see is too late.</blockquote the solution Mr fold is
On the subject of RM being understated on money available at the Bromley meeting - didn't everyone come out depressed from a similar meeting with SCP at the end of the 2010/11 season... just before we went and bought 18 players? Could it be more poker face?
spot on - it was said at the time that they weren't necessarily giving out the truth in order to ensure value and people got all prickly about it - no one was accusing CP of being a liar, he was doing his job, professionally, and maybe his body language suggested that. Simple really.
On the 1st September we'll know what the real financial situation is!
It certainly doesn't make sense to say we have money to spend, as a) selling clubs will try to increase their prices b) it puts pressure on SCP and the board to make exciting transfers, to live up to the pre window build up
What position did we occupy in the championship financial stakes ? 17th wasn't it. That statistic tells its own story. Can anyone see that position drastically changing next season ? I can't.
What position did we occupy in the championship financial stakes ? 17th wasn't it. That statistic tells its own story. Can anyone see that position drastically changing next season ? I can't.
It will change. Three small clubs promoted; Wolves gone down; other clubs in worse financial state than us. We need to stretch the budget somewhat but there is a good growth plan being developed here. I'm sure the board, CP and the fans see the playoffs as a reasonable target next year. Very pleased to hear reports of confidence in the board room; they should be rightly proud of what they have achieved after inheriting a club that was all but bust. I don't really care if TJ/MS/KC are not fan friendly as long as they keep making the right decisions.
What position did we occupy in the championship financial stakes ? 17th wasn't it. That statistic tells its own story. Can anyone see that position drastically changing next season ? I can't.
The way I see i there is at least an element of thanks due to the current board for where we are today. It is their money at risk regardless of the motivation, and it's meant we have a club in an arguably healthier position than it was 2 years ago. We've had fans running this club with tremendous success over the years but they made well-meaning but disastrous errors. To a big extent the outcome is as important as the motivation.
That motivation, however, is a very important factor in the ongoing and future development of our Charlton. Like it or not, these guys clearly have an interest in getting their money back and more - which wasn't the primary motivation of previous boards. This means they will be less fussy about where the money comes from, and their interest in the club's long term future is intrinsically tied to the extent to which it refills their own pockets. It's a different risk altogether.
I believe our downfall came from the well-intentioned gamble to give Dowie two years worth of investment in one go. That gamble failed, and it ultimately resulted in our lumbering in League One mid-table with the vultures of administration flying over us. That we survived is undoubtedly due to the board's willingness to forego many millions of pounds for the sake of the club as much as it is to TJ and Slater and the Cash they have or may not have.
Let's play with a scenario here. If the Premiership is the only real means of making money from Charlton, our current board may take a similar gamble on future monies to get there. If they were to do so, and fail, the consequences under a board/owners that don't really care about the club itself and who want every penny of their money back don't bear thinking about - no parachute payments to ease the fall, after all.
It's a shame that Rick and Richard Murray don't seem to see eye to eye right now - but I seem to recall there were plenty of disagreements along the way anyway. What co-joined them was their love for the club and its ongoing development. Right now RM has to protect his own interests and his influence with the board, for what it is - and that's in all our interests - so he needs to be more circumspect than Rick on these matters. But, if there are scenarios such as the above that risk the club and/or the Valley then I'd be less worried about personal relationships and more concerned that the actions of the board are held accountable to us - we're fans and customers in equal measure, and genuine stakeholders in the club. The Trust is part of this, although I have a concern that we're being kept close as enemies rather than friends.
Rick may or may not be overstating things, but he does have a somewhat unique perspective and it would be foolish to disregard the message for the messenger I think.
Sometimes, wait and see is too late.
Let me consult my book of ready solutions...
I admire the work that's been achieved in the Trust thus far, and the objectives are at a level we can all buy into. They don't easily translate into action though, particularly if there's a more urgent threat.
Rick may be right, he may be wrong, but that he's concerned from a relatively well-informed position tells me that his words ought to be properly considered rather than being overlooked until the 'Message to our Supporters' leaflet is placed in our hands once again.
I don't have a ready answer, just an observation that history tells us optimistically waiting in hope, or ignorance is bliss, is probably not the way. Hopefully the recent joint statement will be turned into something tangible in our stakeholding.
just jumped out of my time machine from january 2011. So is Dennis Wise still our manager and are we still groundsharing at the new den? Is Chris Solly a West Ham player?
You... You mean the doom and gloom merchants were wrong?!
just jumped out of my time machine from january 2011. So is Dennis Wise still our manager and are we still groundsharing at the new den? Is Chris Solly a West Ham player?
You... You mean the doom and gloom merchants were wrong?!
I'm still trying to piece together the riddles and cryptic messages from last Summer. Beats my usual Sunday afternoon crossword.
What position did we occupy in the championship financial stakes ? 17th wasn't it. That statistic tells its own story. Can anyone see that position drastically changing next season ? I can't.
What position did we occupy in the championship financial stakes ? 17th wasn't it. That statistic tells its own story. Can anyone see that position drastically changing next season ? I can't.
I can
Based on ?
Funny enough,Slaters predictions. When he arrived he said that we could not afford to be languishing in league one. We're not. He gave Powell the money to buy a squad of players with a remit of getting out of league 1 as well as being able to compete in the championship. Just did. Now I suspect the next part of the puzzle is at the very least to reach the play offs and that will not be achieved without some investment.
Our position in the financial stakes is a load of poppycock to me.
Our position in the financial stakes is a load of poppycock to me.
We're definitely towards the lower end of the Championship when it comes to the wage bill.
New York Addick put a post up on his blog when the clubs 2011/12 accounts were available. We spent £8m or so on wages, which included non-football staff.
Since then we've made a few signings, including some Premier League loans, and I suspect some players had a wage increase following promotion.
Our position in the financial stakes is a load of poppycock to me.
We're definitely towards the lower end of the Championship when it comes to the wage bill.
New York Addick put a post up on his blog when the clubs 2011/12 accounts were available. We spent £8m or so on wages, which included non-football staff.
Since then we've made a few signings, including some Premier League loans, and I suspect some players had a wage increase following promotion.
Our position in the financial stakes is a load of poppycock to me.
We're definitely towards the lower end of the Championship when it comes to the wage bill.
New York Addick put a post up on his blog when the clubs 2011/12 accounts were available. We spent £8m or so on wages, which included non-football staff.
Since then we've made a few signings, including some Premier League loans, and I suspect some players had a wage increase following promotion.
Just because we hardly SPENT any money doesn't necessarily mean we don't have any.
WE, as in CAFC, clearly DON'T have any money. We have an overdraft at the bank which is guaranteed by RM & we owe money to various lenders, including the current owners. The owners are funding our losses from their own money. From next season, when the new FFP rules come into effect, said owners are going to be restricted as to how much cash they can put into the club every year. I can't see how our position in the financial league is going to change very much at all next season.
Let's be very clear about the finances and this has been one of the aims of the Trust - see TNT#3... £1M a month is being injected into the club for about 7 months of each year... Why? Because this is what the club loses on expenses like the player payroll... and it's not every month because in certain months c.4.2M of TV revenue comes in and a wedge of our Season Ticket money arrives in April/May.
How do we know it is £7M? Because the League 1 accounts show this AND people have gone on record recently stating cash injections of £15M in total over two years.
We know there may have been issues in the past about backing CAFC - read this board from October/November and then imagine if you were stumping up that kind of money! And I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an announcement!
Right now CAFC is the closest it has been to the Premier League in years. And the losses for next season are about to go down! Ticket prices are up and at least £1.5M a year is going off the payroll with announced and unannounced departures.
The big, big question is whether the backers want to plug the squad with the academy or fund acquisitions of players in their mid 20s to boost the squad... The risk is that apart from trying to sign Obika everyone else would be an unknown. Would they fit in? Would existing players feel put out - it's a tight group by all accounts? And would the wage bill inflate the way it did under Pardew?
Just because we hardly SPENT any money doesn't necessarily mean we don't have any.
WE, as in CAFC, clearly DON'T have any money. We have an overdraft at the bank which is guaranteed by RM & we owe money to various lenders, including the current owners. The owners are funding our losses from their own money. From next season, when the new FFP rules come into effect, said owners are going to be restricted as to how much cash they can put into the club every year. I can't see how our position in the financial league is going to change very much at all next season.
But then more or less every club in this bizarre league owes money, and mainly to their current owners. Cardiff and Hull didn't build their squads on internally generated funds.
What position did we occupy in the championship financial stakes ? 17th wasn't it. That statistic tells its own story. Can anyone see that position drastically changing next season ? I can't.
I can
Based on ?
Funny enough,Slaters predictions. When he arrived he said that we could not afford to be languishing in league one. We're not. He gave Powell the money to buy a squad of players with a remit of getting out of league 1 as well as being able to compete in the championship. Just did. Now I suspect the next part of the puzzle is at the very least to reach the play offs and that will not be achieved without some investment.
Our position in the financial stakes is a load of poppycock to me.
Some good points- these targets were well publicised and have been achieved and some!
Money spent on wages in the Championship has to be viewed through the prism that there are several clubs in there (Blackpool, etc) who are still getting massive parachute payments which inflate the level of wages they are actually able to pay on revenues earned.
Then you have examples like Leicester where the Thai owners are prepared to spend whatever it takes to get to the PL.
Comments
Thought Donaldson looked pretty decent for Brentford yesterday. wouldn't mind him.
I understood it too mean up to 10 players. ie if say 3or 4 went who are on contracts (Danny Green/Danny Hollands/Jordon Cook/Dale stephens) and 5 or 6 out of contracts (Bwp/ Obika/Fuller/Andy Hughes/Waggy/kerkar) were not renewed then up to 10 new players needed. also no mention of good players, just players!
Others said "let's wait and see" : - )
That motivation, however, is a very important factor in the ongoing and future development of our Charlton. Like it or not, these guys clearly have an interest in getting their money back and more - which wasn't the primary motivation of previous boards. This means they will be less fussy about where the money comes from, and their interest in the club's long term future is intrinsically tied to the extent to which it refills their own pockets. It's a different risk altogether.
I believe our downfall came from the well-intentioned gamble to give Dowie two years worth of investment in one go. That gamble failed, and it ultimately resulted in our lumbering in League One mid-table with the vultures of administration flying over us. That we survived is undoubtedly due to the board's willingness to forego many millions of pounds for the sake of the club as much as it is to TJ and Slater and the Cash they have or may not have.
Let's play with a scenario here. If the Premiership is the only real means of making money from Charlton, our current board may take a similar gamble on future monies to get there. If they were to do so, and fail, the consequences under a board/owners that don't really care about the club itself and who want every penny of their money back don't bear thinking about - no parachute payments to ease the fall, after all.
It's a shame that Rick and Richard Murray don't seem to see eye to eye right now - but I seem to recall there were plenty of disagreements along the way anyway. What co-joined them was their love for the club and its ongoing development. Right now RM has to protect his own interests and his influence with the board, for what it is - and that's in all our interests - so he needs to be more circumspect than Rick on these matters. But, if there are scenarios such as the above that risk the club and/or the Valley then I'd be less worried about personal relationships and more concerned that the actions of the board are held accountable to us - we're fans and customers in equal measure, and genuine stakeholders in the club. The Trust is part of this, although I have a concern that we're being kept close as enemies rather than friends.
Rick may or may not be overstating things, but he does have a somewhat unique perspective and it would be foolish to disregard the message for the messenger I think.
Sometimes, wait and see is too late.
It certainly doesn't make sense to say we have money to spend, as
a) selling clubs will try to increase their prices
b) it puts pressure on SCP and the board to make exciting transfers, to live up to the pre window build up
I admire the work that's been achieved in the Trust thus far, and the objectives are at a level we can all buy into. They don't easily translate into action though, particularly if there's a more urgent threat.
Rick may be right, he may be wrong, but that he's concerned from a relatively well-informed position tells me that his words ought to be properly considered rather than being overlooked until the 'Message to our Supporters' leaflet is placed in our hands once again.
I don't have a ready answer, just an observation that history tells us optimistically waiting in hope, or ignorance is bliss, is probably not the way. Hopefully the recent joint statement will be turned into something tangible in our stakeholding.
You... You mean the doom and gloom merchants were wrong?!
When he arrived he said that we could not afford to be languishing in league one.
We're not.
He gave Powell the money to buy a squad of players with a remit of getting out of league 1 as well as being able to compete in the championship.
Just did.
Now I suspect the next part of the puzzle is at the very least to reach the play offs and that will not be achieved without some investment.
Our position in the financial stakes is a load of poppycock to me.
New York Addick put a post up on his blog when the clubs 2011/12 accounts were available. We spent £8m or so on wages, which included non-football staff.
Since then we've made a few signings, including some Premier League loans, and I suspect some players had a wage increase following promotion.
http://newyorkaddick.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/money-for-nothing.html?m=1
We're a long way off clubs like Leicester, who spent £27m on wages in the same season...!
http://m.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/story.html?aid=18299504
How do we know it is £7M? Because the League 1 accounts show this AND people have gone on record recently stating cash injections of £15M in total over two years.
We know there may have been issues in the past about backing CAFC - read this board from October/November and then imagine if you were stumping up that kind of money! And I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an announcement!
Right now CAFC is the closest it has been to the Premier League in years. And the losses for next season are about to go down! Ticket prices are up and at least £1.5M a year is going off the payroll with announced and unannounced departures.
The big, big question is whether the backers want to plug the squad with the academy or fund acquisitions of players in their mid 20s to boost the squad... The risk is that apart from trying to sign Obika everyone else would be an unknown. Would they fit in? Would existing players feel put out - it's a tight group by all accounts? And would the wage bill inflate the way it did under Pardew?
Then you have examples like Leicester where the Thai owners are prepared to spend whatever it takes to get to the PL.
Going to be an interesting summer, with the announcement today it looks like there will be quite a few ins and outs.